Something thats always bothered me about Fain

[Guest Czechs In The M'Hael]

Ok so we know he was altered by the Dark One, made into Rands personal stalker. Fain actually has a connection to Rand, we get this confirmed in a Fain PoV where he notes he felt as if he shared that connection with someone else, or something along those lines (Alannas bond to Rand)

 

The thing that bothers me is, how was that connection made, and when? I cant remember it ever being explained.

 

What do you people think about it? Was it Ishamael that done it, in the dream? Was it formed literally just before Rand saw Fain in that village?

 

Thoughts?

[Majsju]

The "connection" (which mostly seems to be his ability to sense were Rand (and to a lesser extent Mat and Perrin) is) was something the DO gave him during his transformation inte the DOs hound.

[LemonPastie]

Thats right, after Moirainne questions him she tells someone (Egwene?) that he had been double-distilled by the Great Lord and that caused his super-detection abilities (except when Rand is in the Oneness).

 

As to the question of when it was created, I think he reported back to the GL about rand and the other two between his visit to the Two Rivers in EotW and the visit immediately prior to that. Once he reported that, the GL decided to 'question' him further and instill a hatred and drive to seek out and kill Rand (and the other two minorly) - it may have been said that all that was left of him was his focus on the 3 boys (until Shadar Logoth)

[Arkane101]

Thats right, after Moirainne questions him she tells someone (Egwene?) that he had been double-distilled by the Great Lord and that caused his super-detection abilities (except when Rand is in the Oneness).

 

As to the question of when it was created, I think he reported back to the GL about rand and the other two between his visit to the Two Rivers in EotW and the visit immediately prior to that. Once he reported that, the GL decided to 'question' him further and instill a hatred and drive to seek out and kill Rand (and the other two minorly) - it may have been said that all that was left of him was his focus on the 3 boys (until Shadar Logoth)

The dark one or Ishamael or whoever didn't put the hatred into Fain, it he formed the hatred to Rand because the process that turned him into the hound was so unbearable that he blames Rand for it, he also has an equally great hatred for the dark one, but he wants to kill Rand first before the dark one. The hatred was just a side effect.

[Entreri]

At the Bore, essentially anything can be done, reality altering properties.

 

Fain is essentially an evil godly like creature, no mere mortal, possibly immortal now (Mordeth was) that dagger may even kill a gholam now, the taint eating away at it. He controls Mashadar now, and his own personal Trolloc zombie army and is waiting for the DR.

[Goldstar]

If he's connected to Rand, would that make him connected to Moridin too? Could that be another solution to "three become one"?

[rand4747]

its sort of a 1 way connection, fain feels Rand and perhaps the others, but it does not go the other way, its not anything to do with bonding or anything its just he sences where he is basically.

[Leyrann]

Maybe he can "feel" ta'veren...

[Guest Czechs In The M'Hael]

Thats right, after Moirainne questions him she tells someone (Egwene?) that he had been double-distilled by the Great Lord and that caused his super-detection abilities (except when Rand is in the Oneness).

 

As to the question of when it was created, I think he reported back to the GL about rand and the other two between his visit to the Two Rivers in EotW and the visit immediately prior to that. Once he reported that, the GL decided to 'question' him further and instill a hatred and drive to seek out and kill Rand (and the other two minorly) - it may have been said that all that was left of him was his focus on the 3 boys (until Shadar Logoth)

 

That mskes sense of it, thanks. I knew it had to be before SL but couldnt figure out when. Cheers.

 

I agree that Fain might be able to sense Moridin as well.

 

Maybe he can "feel" ta'veren...

 

Interesting. He can tell a Darkfriend on sight and even someone has thought about being one, sensing Ta'veren wouldnt be a big stretch I think. One thing I do think though, is that Fain has the Dark Ones own luck, and that Mat might have got a bit of it, the combination of both making Mats luck so reliable. Maybe.

 

Also re the Fain-Rand thing, I was almost convinced on a reread that it was Ishamael/Ba'alzamon and not the Dark One who did it, and that Fain just thought it was.

[Guest PiotrekS]

What was done to Fain to connect him to Rand is also similar to what was done in tLotR to Gollum to get from him the information about the Ring and the Shire. It fits a very tolkienesque style of TEotW.

[jsbrads]

At the Bore, essentially anything can be done, reality altering properties.

 

Fain is essentially an evil godly like creature, no mere mortal, possibly immortal now (Mordeth was) that dagger may even kill a gholam now, the taint eating away at it. He controls Mashadar now, and his own personal Trolloc zombie army and is waiting for the DR.

 

fain's dagger may not kill a gholam, a gholam may not be evil (at least not DO flavor evil)

 

Mordeth wasn't immortal per se, he died just fine, his evil lives on. The Pattern won't remove his brand of evil due its usefullness in cleansing the Power.

[Entreri]

At the Bore, essentially anything can be done, reality altering properties.

 

Fain is essentially an evil godly like creature, no mere mortal, possibly immortal now (Mordeth was) that dagger may even kill a gholam now, the taint eating away at it. He controls Mashadar now, and his own personal Trolloc zombie army and is waiting for the DR.

 

fain's dagger may not kill a gholam, a gholam may not be evil (at least not DO flavor evil)

 

Mordeth wasn't immortal per se, he died just fine, his evil lives on. The Pattern won't remove his brand of evil due its usefullness in cleansing the Power.

 

Brandon did say it is still Shadowspawn, and it did die shortly after the Gateway closed. Therefore, if the knife penetrates the gholam the taint should spread. I would say the odds are better than 50/50 that the knife kills a gholam.

 

It appears that Ishamael or someone else sent a massive pack of Darkhounds after Fain. Hopefully another gholam is still around, although doubtful.

 

Most likely, Mashadar will suck whatever life essence the Gholam has well before it gets close to Fain.

 

 

IMO, Fain is the best bad guy in the series, a wonderful X factor.

[jsbrads]

Uh, there is no Mashadar in a gateway

 

Just because something qualifies as shadow spawn doesn't mean it can be destroyed by something else, though I'll bet the darkhounds go melting teminator when hit by Fain's dagger.

 

Gholam or the original myth of a Golem is made of clay and animated. (btw the origin of Superman) has super strength speed etc. and perhaps is destroyed by water (that was a joke, clay+water... also krytonite reference)

 

Does anyboody find reference the funniest word to type?

[Sharaman]

Given the number of times RJ used Arabic/ Turkish/ Persian words especially for the Shadow references - gholam = "slave/ servant/ devoted servant".

It is the same root as golem of course - Hebrew and Arabic have many words in common.

[Dewairah]

I believe the connection was created by the DO when fain was taken to the bore at shayol ghul.