Demandred

[The Fisher King]

At this point who cares?

He's been the most underwhelming Forsaken in the entire series, and they're almost all pathetic.

Moridin is the only one that's been exciting to watch, and Lanfear had/has some potential to be impressive.

 

The rest are too cardboard – bad guys that can't do anything right.

Even Taim and Slayer have been more threatening then the big bad Forsaken, and Fain is above those two.

I'd say Asmodean isn't cardboard, if I didn't hear that Jordan said he was still evil when he died.

I would have liked to see Rand turn one of them back to the light by now, and Asmodean would have been a perfect example of that.

I'm certain I heard Jordan say he decided to geniunely turn back to the light.

 

That is correct.

 

 

Fish

[Terez]

At this point who cares?

He's been the most underwhelming Forsaken in the entire series, and they're almost all pathetic.

Moridin is the only one that's been exciting to watch, and Lanfear had/has some potential to be impressive.

 

The rest are too cardboard – bad guys that can't do anything right.

Even Taim and Slayer have been more threatening then the big bad Forsaken, and Fain is above those two.

I'd say Asmodean isn't cardboard, if I didn't hear that Jordan said he was still evil when he died.

I would have liked to see Rand turn one of them back to the light by now, and Asmodean would have been a perfect example of that.

I'm certain I heard Jordan say he decided to geniunely turn back to the light.

 

That is correct.

 

 

Fish

Actually, it isn't.

[Leyrann]

I think hes in Saldaea taking advantage of Basheres absence. A gut feeling, no more. Sadly I didnt pay enough attention as to which Saldaeans have been mentioned but not been onscreen.

 

Having said that, Basheres Saldaeans are mentioned here and there in TGS so maybe we could get a name from there somewhere. I'll be rereading TGS very soon anyway

 

The Saldaeans mentioned in TGS don't matter. We were able to figure out who he was after WH (maybe earlier). So we only have to look for people who were mentioned the first time in WH or earlier. And don't forget that he CAN have appeared in TGS. Strictly, BS didn't rule people from TGS out.

 

I'd like to hear of someone else who could be Demandred.

[Guest Czechs In The M'Hael]

I think hes in Saldaea taking advantage of Basheres absence. A gut feeling, no more. Sadly I didnt pay enough attention as to which Saldaeans have been mentioned but not been onscreen.

 

Having said that, Basheres Saldaeans are mentioned here and there in TGS so maybe we could get a name from there somewhere. I'll be rereading TGS very soon anyway

 

The Saldaeans mentioned in TGS don't matter. We were able to figure out who he was after WH (maybe earlier). So we only have to look for people who were mentioned the first time in WH or earlier. And don't forget that he CAN have appeared in TGS. Strictly, BS didn't rule people from TGS out.

 

Thats what I mean. TGS is the only one he has a chance of having appeared in, so its not a bad place to look. If we listed all the Saldaeans in TGS we could potentially have a decent list of suspects.

[The Fisher King]

[Removed]

[Leyrann]

I think hes in Saldaea taking advantage of Basheres absence. A gut feeling, no more. Sadly I didnt pay enough attention as to which Saldaeans have been mentioned but not been onscreen.

 

Having said that, Basheres Saldaeans are mentioned here and there in TGS so maybe we could get a name from there somewhere. I'll be rereading TGS very soon anyway

 

The Saldaeans mentioned in TGS don't matter. We were able to figure out who he was after WH (maybe earlier). So we only have to look for people who were mentioned the first time in WH or earlier. And don't forget that he CAN have appeared in TGS. Strictly, BS didn't rule people from TGS out.

 

Thats what I mean. TGS is the only one he has a chance of having appeared in, so its not a bad place to look. If we listed all the Saldaeans in TGS we could potentially have a decent list of suspects.

 

That is right, but we also need to make sure that person only appeared in TGS, AND was mentioned in the first nine books.

 

By the way, Fish, did you knew Terez is making the database with all interviews RJ and BS ever made?

[Pantsonfire]

Master Ablar's long post there may have uncovered a winner.....

 

spoiler

Spoiler

SPOILER

 

We are only ever given tidbits about Shara being off limits and those who venture in never returning. If you recall the ending to ToM there were red viel aiel-looking people emerging from the blight. The blight is generally accepted to be uninhabitable for humans, who is to say these red-veiled gents with sharpened teeth are not the Sharans or a population group thereof?

 

The alliance between Messana, Semirage and Demandred logically fits that distribution perfectly. More than poking around a bunch of traders in murandy, a country with no great army to speak of and no means to hire one with all of the mercenaries out there selling themselves for food.

 

I am new to DM, but after my Taimandred ideas were popped by reading the thread lol I must say Shara seems ideal

[Son Of Feanor]

Taim still (to me) most closely matches Demandred. And in spite of everything I've read here and elsewhere, it still leads me to believe that Mazrim Taim is Demandred. And yes I have heard that Jordan denied this but..

Misdirection perhaps??

 

P.S. I have read ToM also

 

:)

[Son Of Feanor]

Taim's the "So called Aiel" comment still raises questions in my mind too.

And there is a physical similarity between Taim and Demandred.

 

Just an opinion.

[damandred]

I think Demandreds controls the BT directly or indirectly. Had a long debate last week in another thread about him being King Roedran and I gotta adimt I started to waver. But in the end Murandy is just not powerfull enough

[MasterAblar]

I think Demandreds controls the BT directly or indirectly. Had a long debate last week in another thread about him being King Roedran and I gotta adimt I started to waver. But in the end Murandy is just not powerfull enough

 

I think Demandred is in charge of the BT in some manner or another. In aCoS Sammael says to Greadal that he thinks Semirhage and Demandred may have been involved despite how it ended. Well how did it end? With the Ashaman, that's how. Or rather the Ashaman ended it. If Demandred is in charge of the BT, then it's strange that the Ashaman would act as they did, which explains why Sammael says "despite how it ended". The Ashaman freed Rand, despite Demandred being in charge of the BT.

 

This also means that the Forsaken are aware that Demandred is in charge of the BT which would imply that it was order from the DO. And yet Greandal doesn't know where Demandred is hiding. Which means that in addition to the BT, Demandred is in charge of another territory.

[Suttree]

Taim still (to me) most closely matches Demandred. And in spite of everything I've read here and elsewhere, it still leads me to believe that Mazrim Taim is Demandred. And yes I have heard that Jordan denied this but..

Misdirection perhaps??

 

P.S. I have read ToM also

 

:)

 

NO.

 

RJ unequivocally said it multiple times.

[MasterAblar]

Taim still (to me) most closely matches Demandred. And in spite of everything I've read here and elsewhere, it still leads me to believe that Mazrim Taim is Demandred. And yes I have heard that Jordan denied this but..

Misdirection perhaps??

 

P.S. I have read ToM also

 

:)

 

NO.

 

RJ unequivocally said it multiple times.

 

Yes, in fact he said it so many times that at one point he became rather disgusted when people kept asking him to repeat it. Demandred not being Taim is at this point pretty much the most certain thing in the books.

[Son Of Feanor]

Taim however speaks like one of the forsaken. Uses many of thier catchphrases and seems to have knowledge based on the age of legends. And he know's how to train male aes sedai.

 

How does he know these things?

 

The last male aes sedai died during the time of the breaking...

 

If he is not a forsaken then how does he have such knowledge? I do not believe that Demandred traind him.

[MasterAblar]

Taim however speaks like one of the forsaken. Uses many of thier catchphrases and seems to have knowledge based on the age of legends. And he know's how to train male aes sedai.

 

How does he know these things?

 

The last male aes sedai died during the time of the breaking...

 

If he is not a forsaken then how does he have such knowledge? I do not believe that Demandred traind him.

 

All that was said is that he is not Demandred. One theory is that he is Moridin.

[Goramier]

At this point who cares?

He's been the most underwhelming Forsaken in the entire series, and they're almost all pathetic.

Moridin is the only one that's been exciting to watch, and Lanfear had/has some potential to be impressive.

 

The rest are too cardboard – bad guys that can't do anything right.

Even Taim and Slayer have been more threatening then the big bad Forsaken, and Fain is above those two.

I'd say Asmodean isn't cardboard, if I didn't hear that Jordan said he was still evil when he died.

I would have liked to see Rand turn one of them back to the light by now, and Asmodean would have been a perfect example of that.

 

 

This.

 

I love the WoT series but this is just simply, accurate. The bad guys are so simplistic that it almost destroys the series. You can basically guess who will live and who will die at about book 2 after the first chapter. Again, I love this series but it could have been such a masterpiece...I mean its like having seen the single greatest work of fantasy writing having been downgraded to just good based on only a few mistakes. The bad guys were just to simple...to stupid...to guaranteed to to lose for such an epic series.

[Son Of Feanor]

All that was said is that he is not Demandred. One theory is that he is Moridin.

 

Moridin huh?

interesting idea. It has it's merits too

there is some physical similarity too taim and moridin are both tall men. Perhaps he disguises himself as taim with the mirror of mist weave...

dunno.

[Son Of Feanor]

Taim also seems to avoid being touched.

heh.

 

 

and I seriously doubt that demandred is Davram Bashere the idea is a joke.

[MasterAblar]

Taim also seems to avoid being touched.

heh.

 

 

and I seriously doubt that demandred is Davram Bashere the idea is a joke.

 

He's not. Anyone who has been seen in person before KoD is not Demandred and he was not seen in ToM either. To be honest I don't think that Demandred in disguise has been seen in person at any point in the series, and more than that I don't think he is impersonating anyone at all. He likes to use proxies.

 

And if you're intersted in the Taim/Moridin theory, here's a thread on it.

[Leyrann]

Master Ablar's long post there may have uncovered a winner.....

 

spoiler

Spoiler

SPOILER

 

We are only ever given tidbits about Shara being off limits and those who venture in never returning. If you recall the ending to ToM there were red viel aiel-looking people emerging from the blight. The blight is generally accepted to be uninhabitable for humans, who is to say these red-veiled gents with sharpened teeth are not the Sharans or a population group thereof?

 

The alliance between Messana, Semirage and Demandred logically fits that distribution perfectly. More than poking around a bunch of traders in murandy, a country with no great army to speak of and no means to hire one with all of the mercenaries out there selling themselves for food.

 

I am new to DM, but after my Taimandred ideas were popped by reading the thread lol I must say Shara seems ideal

 

It can't be Shara, because we should around Winter's Heart be able to figure out who Demandred was. How can we figure out who he was, if we don't know anyone from Shara? And yes, it's WHO, and not WHERE, because it was asked if it could be figured out who Demandred AND Mesaana were, and the answer was yes. At that point we were already sure Mesaana was at the WT.

 

Taim still (to me) most closely matches Demandred. And in spite of everything I've read here and elsewhere, it still leads me to believe that Mazrim Taim is Demandred. And yes I have heard that Jordan denied this but..

Misdirection perhaps??

 

RJ doesn't lie; the only thing he does is answering like an Aes Sedai.

 

Taim also seems to avoid being touched.

heh.

 

 

and I seriously doubt that demandred is Davram Bashere the idea is a joke.

 

I added that because I knew some people thought he was a DF, so I thought, why not add him? I already knew it could not be him, but I just wanted a bit more possibilities.

[MasterAblar]

Master Ablar's long post there may have uncovered a winner.....

 

spoiler

Spoiler

SPOILER

 

We are only ever given tidbits about Shara being off limits and those who venture in never returning. If you recall the ending to ToM there were red viel aiel-looking people emerging from the blight. The blight is generally accepted to be uninhabitable for humans, who is to say these red-veiled gents with sharpened teeth are not the Sharans or a population group thereof?

 

The alliance between Messana, Semirage and Demandred logically fits that distribution perfectly. More than poking around a bunch of traders in murandy, a country with no great army to speak of and no means to hire one with all of the mercenaries out there selling themselves for food.

 

I am new to DM, but after my Taimandred ideas were popped by reading the thread lol I must say Shara seems ideal

 

It can't be Shara, because we should around Winter's Heart be able to figure out who Demandred was. How can we figure out who he was, if we don't know anyone from Shara? And yes, it's WHO, and not WHERE, because it was asked if it could be figured out who Demandred AND Mesaana were, and the answer was yes. At that point we were already sure Mesaana was at the WT.

 

 

Well, Brandon said we should think more along the line of where he is, what is he up to. Besides I'm not convinced that we've seen him at all as he likes using proxies.

[yoniy0]

You know what the true mystery in all this is? Who are the 14 DMers who believe Demandred is posing as Roedran but has no influence in Murandy

[cpcampbell]

I have thought hard about who Demandred is. I am currently rereading the series and picking out details, and this is one of the mysteries I'm trying to figure out.

 

What do we know about Demandred? He's a general and tactician. He was just under Lews Therin, in everything, and is incredibly jealous of him. He is short.

 

What is he currently doing? He is building an army. He was in league with Mesana and Semirhage. He is following orders to increase chaos.

 

From looking around, I heard that Demandred's "Alter Ego" hadn't been revealed yet. I believe that it has been introduced, but not revealed.

 

I believe that Demandred is Mazrim Taim. What I believe supports this is: he is short, and just under Rand with his strength with Saidin (remember how Lews Therin/Rand responded when Rand gave the order for Taim to embrace Saidin?). He has been channelling for "years" with no trace of the taint. Lews Therin goes NUTS when he first introduces himself, and then rants later whenever Rand meets Taim. His escape is not detailed, but rumors and innuendo say that the Black Ajah helped him escape being brought to the tower and gentled. He knew how to use resonance to detect men who could use Saidin. He was jealous of Lews Therin and his Hundred Companions, leading him to create his own army, of Asha'man. He gives himself a title, M'Hael, meant to pump up his own importance to escape from under the shadow of Rand, the Dragon Reborn.

 

I have come across some information that does not support the connection between Demandred and Taim. First, however, I would like to make the argument that Demandred is a wonderful strategist and tactician. He probably maintains his power through cunning and deciet, Machiavellian style. This, in my opinion, would explain away any of the inconsistancies.

 

= He gives Rand one of the seals; but to get his trust. He then goes white when Rand is about to break it, but doesn't try to stop him. He is just surprised, that the Dragon would do such a thing.

 

=The renegade Asha'man are told by both Taim, then Demandred, to kill Rand (they know that Rand is planning to cleanse Saidin). That they were first told to by Taim, then Demandred is important. From Taim, it would just be odd, but from a "Chosen", it would be an imperitive. Just another way Demandred uses to hide who he is, while being able to pull strings from the shadows (Machiavellian again).

 

=Another monarch is creating and army, Roedran of Murandy. He, if not Taim, could be a viable alter ego for Demandred, as he too has not been introduced as of yet.

 

There may be more, but to me the evidence supportting the connection between Demandred and Mazrim Taim is strong, while the evidence that does not can be explained due to Demandred's own cunning nature.

[Suttree]

...

 

Hey mate, welcome to DM. Well thought out post but unfortunately RJ has very clearly said that no Taim is not Demandred on more than one occasion.

[cpcampbell]

...

 

Hey mate, welcome to DM. Well thought out post but unfortunately RJ has very clearly said that no Taim is not Demandred on more than one occasion.

 

 

Thanks, then my vote goes to Roedran. But Taim still is evil.