Aes Sedai and the White Tower

[Elan Tedronai]

 

huh? wtf are u talkin about?

 

the rotten tower u keep talking about unearthed moraine, siuan, verin and cadsuane.

 

The same tower that spewed out Elaida, Alviarin, Katherine, Chesmal, Romanda, Lelaine? you keep highlighting the exceptional ones and are blind to the rotten ones. The Aes Sedai as an institution are dysfunctional. Except for the exceptional ones, they pretty much use their power for the benefit of the tower not the world.

 

WTF indeed.

 

the aes sedai have become dysfunctional becomes of complete breakdown in the ranks. in case you didnt hear, there was civil war amongst them resulting in an amyrlin beiong deposed and an entire ajah being banned. for the better part of the entire series their were two warring parties. The base of the white tower was in the hands of an incompetent who was put their by the black ajah who have already seeped through the ranks way way back. This was done by none other than ishamael himself

 

 

how is it possible for a huge organisation like the aes sedai to carry out their duties effectively whilst they were in civil war? the exceptional ones you keep talking about are aes sedai themselves. They were following the ethos of aes sedai to the letter. why should you lump them with the tools like elaida and the chump that raised her?

 

the aes sedai whether you like it or not are a force for good. They lost sight of their entire purpose because of the circumstances i mentioned. Now that they have reunited under egwene and wiped out the black ajah amongst their midst, they will refocus their energies to the final battle.

 

 

you will see first hand of that when the black tower is razed to the grounds in the opening few chapters of AMOL

[Cybertrolloc]

yoniy0, reread the end of tDR. Then do some post editing :)

_____

 

Really, Romanda as bad as the rest there USURP888 (can't think of much positive about Lelaine)?

_____

 

Perhaps a different approach? What group on the main continent is better than WT on these measures? Ok, the borderlands leadership. Who else? ;)

[Kahsm]

yoniy0, reread the end of tDR. Then do some post editing :)

_____

 

Really, Romanda as bad as the rest there USURP888 (can't think of much positive about Lelaine)?

_____

 

Perhaps a different approach? What group on the main continent is better than WT on these measures? Ok, the borderlands leadership. Who else? ;)

 

Even the borderlanders only pass because they are reminded DAILY what they are fighting for. It would become extremely difficult for anyone to lose sight of the big picture when you're fighting trollocs almost every day.

[plague fiend]

My take on the Aes Sedai is that they have become mostly useless meddlers. Between the Breaking and the Trolloc Wars that's when the Aes Sedai were a true force against the Shadow, but afterwards they grew complacent. Their general level deteriorated until they came to the lowpoint between the time Moiraine became an Aes Sedai and Egwene enrolled. Many Aes Sedai were only going through the motions of being Aes Sedai. They kept up appearances, but they had isolated themselves from the world and were pretty useless outside of the Tower. Only when Rand left the Two Rivers and the chaos he caused along the way did the momentum change. The generation of Egwene, Nyneave and Elayne has a different mettle than the Aes Sedai of the last 1,000 years and it will take the greatest Amyrlin of the last 1,000 years to make the Aes Sedai shape up in time to be of any use during TG and afterwards.

 

I don't think that the Aes Sedai haven't isolated themselves from the world, anymore than normal anyway, but have forgotten what it means to be a part of the common society. Just my opinion.

[b3arz3rg3r]

 

huh? wtf are u talkin about?

 

the rotten tower u keep talking about unearthed moraine, siuan, verin and cadsuane.

 

The same tower that spewed out Elaida, Alviarin, Katherine, Chesmal, Romanda, Lelaine? you keep highlighting the exceptional ones and are blind to the rotten ones. The Aes Sedai as an institution are dysfunctional. Except for the exceptional ones, they pretty much use their power for the benefit of the tower not the world.

 

WTF indeed.

 

the aes sedai have become dysfunctional becomes of complete breakdown in the ranks. in case you didnt hear, there was civil war amongst them resulting in an amyrlin beiong deposed and an entire ajah being banned. for the better part of the entire series their were two warring parties. The base of the white tower was in the hands of an incompetent who was put their by the black ajah who have already seeped through the ranks way way back. This was done by none other than ishamael himself

 

Nah the rot in the Aes Sedai goes far deeper than the recent power play of the black ajah which lead to the split of the Tower.

 

 

how is it possible for a huge organisation like the aes sedai to carry out their duties effectively whilst they were in civil war? the exceptional ones you keep talking about are aes sedai themselves. They were following the ethos of aes sedai to the letter. why should you lump them with the tools like elaida and the chump that raised her?

 

You are laying it on a bit thick, don't you think? Aside from a few exceptions the Aes Sedai of today are a pale shadow of how they were in ages past. Only the new generation holds some promise. There were several observations in TOM which hit what's wrong with the current Aes Sedai spot on. A comment of Byrne at the beginning about how the Aes Sedai calmness often is a front for unchanging emotions, then later on when Rand warns Nyneave not to let the Aes Sedai ruin her by forcing her to lessen herself just to fit into a mold and then when Nyneave talks to Egwene after her Testing.

 

the aes sedai whether you like it or not are a force for good. They lost sight of their entire purpose because of the circumstances i mentioned. Now that they have reunited under egwene and wiped out the black ajah amongst their midst, they will refocus their energies to the final battle.

 

They lost sight of their purpose long before the split. How many Aes Sedai spend almost all their time in the Tower? And of those who leave how many truly ever accomplished something for the benefit of mankind? The majority of the Aes Sedai outside of the Tower we've seen seem to spend most of their time idling around the various nobles of the world.

If they truly were following the ethos of Aes Sedai to the letter why are almost all members of the Yellow Ajah in Tar Valon, why don't they support hospitals in cities all around Randland?

Why is hardly any of the Green Ajah at any given time in the Borderlands? Seeing how their goal is to prepare for the Last Battle shouldn't they be honing their skills in the Borderlands?

The browns spend most of their time in various libraries, but what do they ever do with the knowledge they acquire? I think there was one who praised Rand for the school he had founded in either Cairhien or Caemlyn, but why didn't the Browns ever found schools themselves? And it goes on and on for all the ajah.

 

My take on the Aes Sedai is that they have become mostly useless meddlers. Between the Breaking and the Trolloc Wars that's when the Aes Sedai were a true force against the Shadow, but afterwards they grew complacent. Their general level deteriorated until they came to the lowpoint between the time Moiraine became an Aes Sedai and Egwene enrolled. Many Aes Sedai were only going through the motions of being Aes Sedai. They kept up appearances, but they had isolated themselves from the world and were pretty useless outside of the Tower. Only when Rand left the Two Rivers and the chaos he caused along the way did the momentum change. The generation of Egwene, Nyneave and Elayne has a different mettle than the Aes Sedai of the last 1,000 years and it will take the greatest Amyrlin of the last 1,000 years to make the Aes Sedai shape up in time to be of any use during TG and afterwards.

 

I don't think that the Aes Sedai haven't isolated themselves from the world, anymore than normal anyway, but have forgotten what it means to be a part of the common society. Just my opinion.

 

They have been isolating themselves more and more. The proof of that lies in their reclining numbers. For hundreds of years the numbers of the Aes Sedai have been falling. It went so far that the Aes Sedai themselves thought that the talent to channel was being bred out of the human race. And then they find out that there were twice as many Kin as Aes Sedai and Egwene's offensive recruiting policy gets them several hundreds new novices in a short amount of time. The reason is obvious. Because the Aes Sedai kept to themselves more and more and put less and less effort into the outside world they found less and less women with the ability to channel. The numbers proof that it must have been different in the days of the Ten Nations or in the centuries before Hawkwing.

[plague fiend]

 

huh? wtf are u talkin about?

 

the rotten tower u keep talking about unearthed moraine, siuan, verin and cadsuane.

 

The same tower that spewed out Elaida, Alviarin, Katherine, Chesmal, Romanda, Lelaine? you keep highlighting the exceptional ones and are blind to the rotten ones. The Aes Sedai as an institution are dysfunctional. Except for the exceptional ones, they pretty much use their power for the benefit of the tower not the world.

 

WTF indeed.

 

the aes sedai have become dysfunctional becomes of complete breakdown in the ranks. in case you didnt hear, there was civil war amongst them resulting in an amyrlin beiong deposed and an entire ajah being banned. for the better part of the entire series their were two warring parties. The base of the white tower was in the hands of an incompetent who was put their by the black ajah who have already seeped through the ranks way way back. This was done by none other than ishamael himself

 

 

how is it possible for a huge organisation like the aes sedai to carry out their duties effectively whilst they were in civil war? the exceptional ones you keep talking about are aes sedai themselves. They were following the ethos of aes sedai to the letter. why should you lump them with the tools like elaida and the chump that raised her?

 

the aes sedai whether you like it or not are a force for good. They lost sight of their entire purpose because of the circumstances i mentioned. Now that they have reunited under egwene and wiped out the black ajah amongst their midst, they will refocus their energies to the final battle.

 

 

you will see first hand of that when the black tower is razed to the grounds in the opening few chapters of AMOL

 

Just as a note, the Aes Sedai as a whole were unable to function properly not only because of the Black Ajah but because of themselves and their own inabilities and failings. They were dysfunctional before the split. The civil war opened their eyes and even now they can't unite for the greater good. Egwene has her work cut-out for her.

[USURP888]

 

the aes sedai have become dysfunctional becomes of complete breakdown in the ranks. in case you didnt hear, there was civil war amongst them resulting in an amyrlin beiong deposed and an entire ajah being banned. for the better part of the entire series their were two warring parties. The base of the white tower was in the hands of an incompetent who was put their by the black ajah who have already seeped through the ranks way way back. This was done by none other than ishamael himself

 

 

how is it possible for a huge organisation like the aes sedai to carry out their duties effectively whilst they were in civil war? the exceptional ones you keep talking about are aes sedai themselves. They were following the ethos of aes sedai to the letter. why should you lump them with the tools like elaida and the chump that raised her?

 

the aes sedai whether you like it or not are a force for good. They lost sight of their entire purpose because of the circumstances i mentioned. Now that they have reunited under egwene and wiped out the black ajah amongst their midst, they will refocus their energies to the final battle.

 

 

you will see first hand of that when the black tower is razed to the grounds in the opening few chapters of AMOL

 

then we agree on almost all points, the Aes Sedai were dysfunctional and non performing prior to Egwene's rise as Amyrlin, She is doing a great job consolidating the tower now but we will RAFO to see if it bears fruit.

[yoniy0]

Correct me if I'm wrong

No, I'm sorry, you're right.

 

It would be as if a single nation in our world held the nuclear weapon and none other. No one should have such power.

That might've been what it was like if the AS were permitted to use their Power against other people. As things stand, it's nothing like it. Also, the Tower isn't the same as another nation. Its interests are by and large the world's interests, with the sole exception of keeping the Tower strong (you might say that was in the world's interests as well, but perhaps that one's more tricky). Like Bradley Whitford said in the West Wing, if that's not your first priority, it doesn't matter what your second priority is.

 

How many Aes Sedai spend almost all their time in the Tower?

Perhaps it's time to address this. Every time we're introduced to a sister's quarters, we see in it the tokens of a long life and adventures had all over the world. Yes, some spend years in the Tower, but I believe most also leave it for long periods of time. If you live for 300 years, you have time to do both.

[b3arz3rg3r]

How many Aes Sedai spend almost all their time in the Tower?

Perhaps it's time to address this. Every time we're introduced to a sister's quarters, we see in it the tokens of a long life and adventures had all over the world. Yes, some spend years in the Tower, but I believe most also leave it for long periods of time. If you live for 300 years, you have time to do both.

 

We see a couple of souvenirs you mean, stuff they often may have even picked up on the market in Tar Valon and not somewhere else. From what we have seen in the book we can infer that Aes Sedai in general do very little outside a noble's manor or a royal palace. And like I said their numbers are proof that they have become more and more reclusive over time.

[Himiko]

Personally, my opinion is thus:

 

As an organisation, the AS are not, at the time of the series, at the top of their game. Often, they are presented as arrogant, and seeming more concerned with people not showing them the respect they "deserve", than with serving the world. This can be seen in the way that other channelers view them. Windfinders hide themselves, because they don't wish to be controlled by the WT. The WO think little of the AS they meet, with few exceptions, and don't wish to be controlled by the Tower. Kings and Queens are supposed to bow to the Amyrlin Seat. And in the meantime, where are the WT sponsored hospitals, where the Yellow Ajah can practice? What use are they in the tower? Where are the schools and libraries from the Brown and White Ajahs? Where are the units of Green AS in the borderlands? Huge amounts of AS seem to live in the Tower for huge amounts of time, when there seems little point, given their Ajahs? We hear that Grey AS are often attached to rulers, due to their ability to solve disputes, which is one of the more useful applications, but what about having some of them run legal courts in various kingdoms? The Black Ajah has infiltrated it to the point that they are the largest Ajah (I believe), and two Forsaken have managed to infiltrate their way into the AS.

 

On the other hand, we know that historically, the WT HAS proved a force for good, in the battle against the shadow. We also know that its training has enabled a lot of women in the Westlands to learn to channel, have access to huge amounts of information, and do a lot of good with it. Moiraine, Siuan, Cadsuane, Verin, etc. All have done great things. All have been enabled, to some extent, by the WT and their AS training. Nynaeve has surpassed healing talents from the Age of Legends, in some cases. Problem is, these AS are often shown as "outside the norm"- they are AS that spend/have spent most of their time outside the tower, or who don't act like AS, or believe that the AS have lost their way. One is Black Ajah. Nynaeve's Healing, though the basic skills come from her training with the WT, has adapted her healing to be more effective than the type traditionally used by the AS. We have Egwene, who is shown to be a great Amyrlin, in that she has united the tower and opened the gates to more novices, but as far as the world outside, whilst she seems to reluctantly agree with some of what Nynaeve says, she doesn't seem to show signs of reducing the arrogance of the AS, and making them more servants of all. The strengthening of the WT is her primary goal, we'll see if this is still the case after the Last Battle.

 

So, yes, in conclusion, the White Tower HAS been a force for good, hugely so in the past. Maybe it can be so again, alongside the Asha'man. It has also enabled some of the main characters of our series to do great things in the war against the shadow, by training them to channel, teaching them about the DR, etc. But as an organisation as a whole, the AS seem more concerned with their own influence and standing in the world, and the strength of the WT, than the fact that TG is right on their doorstep.

[capuga]

Personally, my opinion is thus:

 

As an organisation, the AS are not, at the time of the series, at the top of their game. Often, they are presented as arrogant, and seeming more concerned with people not showing them the respect they "deserve", than with serving the world. This can be seen in the way that other channelers view them. Windfinders hide themselves, because they don't wish to be controlled by the WT. The WO think little of the AS they meet, with few exceptions, and don't wish to be controlled by the Tower. Kings and Queens are supposed to bow to the Amyrlin Seat. And in the meantime, where are the WT sponsored hospitals, where the Yellow Ajah can practice? What use are they in the tower? Where are the schools and libraries from the Brown and White Ajahs? Where are the units of Green AS in the borderlands? Huge amounts of AS seem to live in the Tower for huge amounts of time, when there seems little point, given their Ajahs? We hear that Grey AS are often attached to rulers, due to their ability to solve disputes, which is one of the more useful applications, but what about having some of them run legal courts in various kingdoms? The Black Ajah has infiltrated it to the point that they are the largest Ajah (I believe), and two Forsaken have managed to infiltrate their way into the AS.

 

On the other hand, we know that historically, the WT HAS proved a force for good, in the battle against the shadow. We also know that its training has enabled a lot of women in the Westlands to learn to channel, have access to huge amounts of information, and do a lot of good with it. Moiraine, Siuan, Cadsuane, Verin, etc. All have done great things. All have been enabled, to some extent, by the WT and their AS training. Nynaeve has surpassed healing talents from the Age of Legends, in some cases. Problem is, these AS are often shown as "outside the norm"- they are AS that spend/have spent most of their time outside the tower, or who don't act like AS, or believe that the AS have lost their way. One is Black Ajah. Nynaeve's Healing, though the basic skills come from her training with the WT, has adapted her healing to be more effective than the type traditionally used by the AS. We have Egwene, who is shown to be a great Amyrlin, in that she has united the tower and opened the gates to more novices, but as far as the world outside, whilst she seems to reluctantly agree with some of what Nynaeve says, she doesn't seem to show signs of reducing the arrogance of the AS, and making them more servants of all. The strengthening of the WT is her primary goal, we'll see if this is still the case after the Last Battle.

 

So, yes, in conclusion, the White Tower HAS been a force for good, hugely so in the past. Maybe it can be so again, alongside the Asha'man. It has also enabled some of the main characters of our series to do great things in the war against the shadow, by training them to channel, teaching them about the DR, etc. But as an organisation as a whole, the AS seem more concerned with their own influence and standing in the world, and the strength of the WT, than the fact that TG is right on their doorstep.

 

I think this post is an argument closer. Fair on both sides of the issue and I find it hard to argue with anything said here.

[Suttree]

How many Aes Sedai spend almost all their time in the Tower?

Perhaps it's time to address this. Every time we're introduced to a sister's quarters, we see in it the tokens of a long life and adventures had all over the world. Yes, some spend years in the Tower, but I believe most also leave it for long periods of time. If you live for 300 years, you have time to do both.

We see a couple of souvenirs you mean, stuff they often may have even picked up on the market in Tar Valon and not somewhere else.

 

You can't be serious. Please tell me you were trying to use hyperbole here. Please go back and check out passages that talk about sisters back stories or show their rooms in the tower.

 

That might've been what it was like if the AS were permitted to use their Power against other people. As things stand, it's nothing like it. Also, the Tower isn't the same as another nation. Its interests are by and large the world's interests, with the sole exception of keeping the Tower strong (you might say that was in the world's interests as well, but perhaps that one's more tricky). Like Bradley Whitford said in the West Wing, if that's not your first priority, it doesn't matter what your second priority is.

 

This.

 

@ Himiko

 

Excellent post, when combined with Yoniy0's above I feel that it is pretty much spot on.

[b3arz3rg3r]

How many Aes Sedai spend almost all their time in the Tower?

Perhaps it's time to address this. Every time we're introduced to a sister's quarters, we see in it the tokens of a long life and adventures had all over the world. Yes, some spend years in the Tower, but I believe most also leave it for long periods of time. If you live for 300 years, you have time to do both.

We see a couple of souvenirs you mean, stuff they often may have even picked up on the market in Tar Valon and not somewhere else.

 

You can't be serious. Please tell me you were trying to use hyperbole here. Please go back and check out passages that talk about sisters back stories or show their rooms in the tower.

 

Of course I was exaggerating a bit, but the odd trinket they may have picked up somewhere really doesn't disprove my argument that far too many Aes Sedai spend far too much of their lives in the Tower doing nothing worth mentioning. Well seeing how you agree with Himiko you obviously agree with me as well cause she brings up the same examples I did.

[yoniy0]

far too many Aes Sedai spend far too much of their lives in the Tower doing nothing worth mentioning.

Hmm, that's a matter of measure. How much of their lives should they give to the service of the world? You know what, I'm completely comfortable with each AS giving a third of her life for the cause. And you know what? We know that at least a third of the AS are absent from the Tower at any given moment.

 

So, yes, I agree with Luckers's analysis of the Tower in his 'a practice in futility' essay, but it's a far cry from that to saying they don't still serve the world in the war against the Shadow.

[Puny]

far too many Aes Sedai spend far too much of their lives in the Tower doing nothing worth mentioning.

Hmm, that's a matter of measure. How much of their lives should they give to the service of the world? You know what, I'm completely comfortable with each AS giving a third of her life for the cause. And you know what? We know that at least a third of the AS are absent from the Tower at any given moment.

 

So, yes, I agree with Luckers's analysis of the Tower in his 'a practice in futility' essay, but it's a far cry from that to saying they don't still serve the world in the war against the Shadow.

 

I may be totally of b3arz3rg3r (sigh... your name is tricky to write) but I think what he means is that they have done nothing worth meantioning, i.e nothing that has had an lasting impact on the world. 33% of the Aes Sedai are out in the world, what the heck are they doing?

 

For the Yellows... why hasn´t one single Yellow Aes Sedai in 3000 years come up with something even remotely similar to a hospital, a place were people in each country/city can come to for healing? (And no, a nubby Wise One won´t count), why haven´t the Browns started schools for the children or universities, so they can get an education, why haven´t the Red ones caught more men that can channel (personally I´d hate that,) but why haven´t they? I think Cadsuane has the record, and she isn´t even Red.

3000 years is a long time, sure there has been wars, but I don´t get the feeling of every time we have progressed into something a war comes along, there have been maybe 3 wars since after the Breaking and the World of the Wheel is still threading in the same place. And that goes for the other people too, not just Aes Sedai.

[sleepinghour]

And you know what? We know that at least a third of the AS are absent from the Tower at any given moment.

That doesn't necessarily mean they are doing anything useful. Some older sisters (Cadsuane, Vandene and Adeleas, Romanda) were retired prior to the Tower split, and nobody in Vandene and Adeleas' village in Arafel knew they were Aes Sedai. Others could be hunting for Warders.

 

Min's viewing of the Brown sister Nesune Bihara ("One red-and-green aura spoke of honors, and fame. A huge building appeared above her head and vanished. A library she would found.") could be a sign that this will change in the future. Elayne's plan to have the Kin offer free Healing is also a step in the right direction. If other channelers are seen making positive contributions to society, the Aes Sedai are going to look even worse if they don't join in.

[b3arz3rg3r]

far too many Aes Sedai spend far too much of their lives in the Tower doing nothing worth mentioning.

Hmm, that's a matter of measure. How much of their lives should they give to the service of the world? You know what, I'm completely comfortable with each AS giving a third of her life for the cause.

 

You make it sound as if that was a lot. Most people work for their living their entire lives. The Aes Sedai don't. And that should change. Being an Aes Sedai is a privilege, they should have to work for it. The Aes Sedai have to hold themselves to higher standards than regular folk, that's what makes them Aes Sedai.

It's not as if most of what I and others have proposed was backbreaking labour. The "cause" as you put it isn't drudgework. I would never expect the Aes Sedai to be completely selfless and nothing prevents them from leading a happy and fulfilling life. They can pursue their own projects on the side and in their long lives they can even take a vacation for a couple of years if it gets too much or say they become pregnant and wish to dedicate a few years to raise their child but the day they no longer have the wish to serve the world they should stop being Aes Sedai. Retire and live out the remainder of their lives on some farm like Adelas and Vandene were doing before Moiraine pulled them out of it.

 

And you know what? We know that at least a third of the AS are absent from the Tower at any given moment.

That third seems to mostly hang around the nobility of the world. Or travelling around the world on an endless road trip. But it's still far too few. It should be at least double that number out in the world.

 

So, yes, I agree with Luckers's analysis of the Tower in his 'a practice in futility' essay, but it's a far cry from that to saying they don't still serve the world in the war against the Shadow.

 

I'm not saying that they don't serve the world at all. I'm saying that they have grown complacent and that they are doing far less than they could. They do nothing but the bare minimum and that's just too little for the position of the guardian of the world they claim to hold.

As Uncle Ben put it "With great power comes great responsibility" The Aes Sedai have the power to do a lot of good and their authority, their position in the world is based on the idea that they actually do that good. They aren't.

 

Hopefully that'll change during Egwene's reign. She has to be far more demanding of her charges.

 

far too many Aes Sedai spend far too much of their lives in the Tower doing nothing worth mentioning.

Hmm, that's a matter of measure. How much of their lives should they give to the service of the world? You know what, I'm completely comfortable with each AS giving a third of her life for the cause. And you know what? We know that at least a third of the AS are absent from the Tower at any given moment.

 

So, yes, I agree with Luckers's analysis of the Tower in his 'a practice in futility' essay, but it's a far cry from that to saying they don't still serve the world in the war against the Shadow.

 

I may be totally of b3arz3rg3r (sigh... your name is tricky to write) but I think what he means is that they have done nothing worth meantioning, i.e nothing that has had an lasting impact on the world. 33% of the Aes Sedai are out in the world, what the heck are they doing?

 

For the Yellows... why hasn´t one single Yellow Aes Sedai in 3000 years come up with something even remotely similar to a hospital, a place were people in each country/city can come to for healing? (And no, a nubby Wise One won´t count), why haven´t the Browns started schools for the children or universities, so they can get an education, why haven´t the Red ones caught more men that can channel (personally I´d hate that,) but why haven´t they? I think Cadsuane has the record, and she isn´t even Red.

3000 years is a long time, sure there has been wars, but I don´t get the feeling of every time we have progressed into something a war comes along, there have been maybe 3 wars since after the Breaking and the World of the Wheel is still threading in the same place. And that goes for the other people too, not just Aes Sedai.

 

I apologize for the nickname

[David Selig]

I think most of the problems with the Aes Sedai come from their training process. Each of them spends years as novice and Accepted cut off from the outside world and indoctrinated relentlessly how the Tower is the only thing that matters, everything else is secondary, normal people are inferiors who should bow to her, etc. They even have to take potentially deadly tests specifically designed to weed out those who care about anything more than they do about the Tower. No wonder that when they gain the shawl after 12 years of such a training most of them are contend with working only for the Tower and themselves. It's hardly a coincidence that those Aes Sedai who've seen so far who are able to look beyond the Tower's interest and have other priorities have spent relatively little time in training and in the Tower after they've gained the shawl - Moiraine, Nynaeve, Elayne, Cadsuane, etc.

[Puny]

I apologize for the nickname

 

I meant no disrespect.

 

I think most of the problems with the Aes Sedai come from their training process. Each of them spends years as novice and Accepted cut off from the outside world and indoctrinated relentlessly how the Tower is the only thing that matters, everything else is secondary, normal people are inferiors who should bow to her, etc. They even have to take potentially deadly tests specifically designed to weed out those who care about anything more than they do about the Tower. No wonder that when they gain the shawl after 12 years of such a training most of them are contend with working only for the Tower and themselves. It's hardly a coincidence that those Aes Sedai who've seen so far who are able to look beyond the Tower's interest and have other priorities have spent relatively little time in training and in the Tower after they've gained the shawl - Moiraine, Nynaeve, Elayne, Cadsuane, etc.

 

It´s like the monastaries where monks and nuns spend years doing God´s work and worshipping without actually being outside in God´s world. I was wondering about the test for Aes Sedai... is it really a test designed for that purpose or are they using the ter´angreal in a way that was not it´s original purpos? 12 years is a long time for indoctrination, and I think it´s their attitude of being superior and better then other non-channelers or channelers for that matter, that sets them apart more from other people then the fact that they can actually channel.

[Mats Spare Hat]

I always thought the concept of people harping on yellows founding hospitals outside Tar Valon was a bit laughable.

 

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

 

All the best, in one place. And, you might even find one out and about in the world that'll help you out as well.

 

A hospital with some of the best and brightest with outstanding resources, that never turns anyone away.

 

Cleveland Clinic, anybody? ...Mayo Clinic, even?

 

I take it back, the bit laughable turned into hilarious. Villages all seem to have a wisdom, or mother hubbard, what have you, that specializes in helping the sick & injured, hell in Ebou Dar you've got the Kin running around practically franchised by the Aes Sedai without even their own knowledge - some of the best healers that side of the world, in an organization hatched by the oollleee white tower.

 

...It's like complaining that there's no world class neurosurgeon or research oncologist at your rural hospital, when you know exactly where you can find them, and they'll never turn you away.

[sleepinghour]

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

And how exactly are those injured people supposed to survive a long journey to Tar Valon?

[Mats Spare Hat]

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

And how exactly are those injured people supposed to survive a long journey to Tar Valon?

 

 

That's your problem. It's not the doctor's fault you're injured.

[USURP888]

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

And how exactly are those injured people supposed to survive a long journey to Tar Valon?

 

 

That's your problem. It's not the doctor's fault you're injured.

 

 

The arrogance of this is overwhelming, I dislike the Aes Sedai but I don't believe they share this smug viewpoint. I think their indoctrination shapes them up to be followers of the custom of the white tower which caused them to be aloof.

[Suttree]

I always thought the concept of people harping on yellows founding hospitals outside Tar Valon was a bit laughable.

 

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

 

All the best, in one place. And, you might even find one out and about in the world that'll help you out as well.

 

A hospital with some of the best and brightest with outstanding resources, that never turns anyone away.

 

Cleveland Clinic, anybody? ...Mayo Clinic, even?

 

I take it back, the bit laughable turned into hilarious. Villages all seem to have a wisdom, or mother hubbard, what have you, that specializes in helping the sick & injured, hell in Ebou Dar you've got the Kin running around practically franchised by the Aes Sedai without even their own knowledge - some of the best healers that side of the world, in an organization hatched by the oollleee white tower.

 

...It's like complaining that there's no world class neurosurgeon or research oncologist at your rural hospital, when you know exactly where you can find them, and they'll never turn you away.

 

Good call...for the record have we seen a centralized hospital in any major city in Randland?

 

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

And how exactly are those injured people supposed to survive a long journey to Tar Valon?

 

He already gave examples of other more mundane healing options. The wisdoms seem to be very effective and have a good track record. The AS are indeed similar to specialists. Not to mention every where we have seen Yellows out in the world they rush to provide healing at the slightest sign of injury.

[Mats Spare Hat]

@ Suttree

 

I don't believe there're any examples of a centralized hospital in a given Randland city.

 

That being said, there's nothing holding anyone in particular back, from founding one. At the same time, it's not the fault of the Aes Sedai that nobody's gotten off their rear and taken some responsibility for doing so - but it does seem easy enough to blame someone else for your own problems.

 

@ USURP888

 

There's neither arrogance, nor smugness in those statements. You only chose to interpret it as such.