Who will kill Rand?

[cookiecrisp]

Can't see Gawyn killing Rand at all. That seems about as likely as Darlin being Demandred and killing him or Tuon managing to break his neck with some karate when they come face to face again.

 

 

Doesn't it seem a tad ridiculous that a politically apt and savvy ruler would assassinate another ruler and not only upset ground and hang herself, but give everyone a good chance to run helter skelter without their leader as they were doing before?

 

That sounds like Egwene got lobotomized and the white tower simply forgot the politics they breathed and ate for the past 3000 years.

[Entreri]

Alivia will help him die.

 

Likely candidates to cause this, rank ordered:

 

Moridin

Fain

Shardar Haran

Demandred

Group of Forsaken

 

 

Low probability - Slayer

 

 

I do not think the Shai'tan will kill him because it did not happen in AoL. Shai'tan even partially imprisoned appears to be limited.

 

Rand's is fried, toasted in AMOL. He may die more than once. Too many far far too powerful/unique enemies to survive, even though I suspect this Rand > LTT (given his uber performance in Maradon, so-called "Light" power). He was meant to die, and the nail in the coffin was getting rid of the Choden Kal.

 

If he had the Choden Kal after his transformation, he would have survived, as long as he was not completely taken by surprise. With the Power to destroy the world in 1 blow, forget about it!

[FarShainMael]

Terez has suggested another possibility elsewhere - that Rand may die of 'wilder sickness'. His 'clock' began ticking, as Moiraine put it, after his encounter with the Forsaken and his efforts at Tarwin's gap at the end of EotW. He's had some training from Asmo, but was it enough / the right kind? Rather than dying suddenly, death from the wilder sickness takes days, and nothing can stop it once started, and it's not pretty. So I suggest that Alivia may do something about that - tell him how the Bloodrings work, so that he can put his inevitable death to good use - and incidentally fulfil the 'blood on the rocks' prophecies.

[Luckers]

Terez has suggested another possibility elsewhere - that Rand may die of 'wilder sickness'. His 'clock' began ticking, as Moiraine put it, after his encounter with the Forsaken and his efforts at Tarwin's gap at the end of EotW. He's had some training from Asmo, but was it enough / the right kind? Rather than dying suddenly, death from the wilder sickness takes days, and nothing can stop it once started, and it's not pretty. So I suggest that Alivia may do something about that - tell him how the Bloodrings work, so that he can put his inevitable death to good use - and incidentally fulfil the 'blood on the rocks' prophecies.

 

I'm fairly sure she was joking...

[FarShainMael]

Perhaps, but it's the only thing I've heard so far that makes any sense at all of the 'help him die' bit.

[Red Hand Man]

Ok, first my prediction on who will kill Rand: Moiraine

 

Other possible candidates (somewhat ordered) -

1. Demandred

2. Fain

3. Gawyn

 

Other randoms (pretty unlikely):

1. High Ranking DF Aiel

2. Taim et. al.

 

Terez is definitely onto something, RJ foreshadowed Moiraine BF'ing him long long ago. Is she right that Gawyn will be the one to force her hand? It's possible, all of the pieces are there, and his writing style is there (e.g. - Asmo's killer was "intuitively" obvious).

 

In Terez's defense about, "how could Gawyn have a chance against Rand..." It wouldn't be a fair fight. Gawyn has the Bloodknives, which would have gotten Egwene, who is good in her own right. If Gawyn thinks that Rand is going to destroy the world, you bet your ass he's going to do what he can to stop him.

 

What I want cleared up though is... how is Mat going to betray Rand? Unless this is the one iteration of the wheel where that doesn't happen...

[FarShainMael]

Gawyn has 3 Bloodrings. Bloodknives are people who cary those knives (and wear the rings). Gawyn does have one of the knives as well.

 

If anyone's going to fight Rand to stop him breaking the seals (which may be pointless if they are indeed breaking in reponse to his actions), wouldn't it be Egwene, who can channel and has that fluted-wand sa'angreal, which she used against the attacking Seanchan?

 

How would Gawyn force Moiraine's hand?

 

As for 'betrayal', what exactly would Mat betray about Rand? Not his whereabouts, because 'all the Dark One's eyes' are focussed on Rand now, so not even Alanna would be needed to betray him like that.

 

In any case, Mat 'son of battles' Cauthon is a much better fit for the warrior aspect of Arthur, and the whole Mordred situation, than Rand ever was.

[Red Hand Man]

Gawyn has 3 Bloodrings. Bloodknives are people who cary those knives (and wear the rings). Gawyn does have one of the knives as well.

Thanks for the correction.

 

 

If anyone's going to fight Rand to stop him breaking the seals (which may be pointless if they are indeed breaking in reponse to his actions), wouldn't it be Egwene, who can channel and has that fluted-wand sa'angreal, which she used against the attacking Seanchan?

As Terez pointed out, Gawyn does, he doesn't think, he doesn't wait, he just does.

 

 

How would Gawyn force Moiraine's hand?

By killing Rand and making him easily snatched up by the Shadow for transmigration of his soul to a mindtrap, the only way to prevent it is with balefire.

 

 

As for 'betrayal', what exactly would Mat betray about Rand? Not his whereabouts, because 'all the Dark One's eyes' are focussed on Rand now, so not even Alanna would be needed to betray him like that.

 

In any case, Mat 'son of battles' Cauthon is a much better fit for the warrior aspect of Arthur, and the whole Mordred situation, than Rand ever was.

I have no idea what Mat would betray, the only reason I think he will is because of The Great Hunt 4month portal stone trip. Perhaps he sides with Tuon on something or tells Tuon something, she might have copies of the domination band.

[SylvanFox]

so question is, will Rand and Moridin ever get to actually battle?

 

 

They had better! I want an epic, earth-ripping fight. They could break the world again or something... and then merge... That rivalry is the oldest in the freakin series. The two of them were in the very first scene. They have to fight. It would be horribly wrong for them not to.

[FarShainMael]

If anyone's going to fight Rand to stop him breaking the seals (which may be pointless if they are indeed breaking in reponse to his actions), wouldn't it be Egwene, who can channel and has that fluted-wand sa'angreal, which she used against the attacking Seanchan?

As Terez pointed out, Gawyn does, he doesn't think, he doesn't wait, he just does.

 

Not strictly true. Elayne had that sisterly chat with him on the boating pond in Caemlyn, and persuaded him to drop his vendetta against the hope of the world. Since then, of course, he's met his supposedly-dead mother. What reason to kill Rand does he have now?

 

How would Gawyn force Moiraine's hand?

By killing Rand and making him easily snatched up by the Shadow for transmigration of his soul to a mindtrap, the only way to prevent it is with balefire.

 

See above. Also: Why would this be Moiraine and not Alivia, the one who has been Viewed as 'helping him die'?

 

As for 'betrayal', what exactly would Mat betray about Rand? Not his whereabouts, because 'all the Dark One's eyes' are focussed on Rand now, so not even Alanna would be needed to betray him like that.

 

In any case, Mat 'son of battles' Cauthon is a much better fit for the warrior aspect of Arthur, and the whole Mordred situation, than Rand ever was.

I have no idea what Mat would betray, the only reason I think he will is because of The Great Hunt 4month portal stone trip. Perhaps he sides with Tuon on something or tells Tuon something, she might have copies of the domination band.

 

I've no doubt he saw himself apparently betraying Rand in those 'worlds of If'; but Rand saw multiple modes of his own death / insanity, none of which has happened or is likely to happen.

 

And don't you think Mat would remember saying he would never do it? Even if those trips did disappear into one of his 'memory holes'; he's still loyal to Rand.

[Entreri]

Yes, Alivia does not battle him or cause him grievous injuries, only help him pass away.

 

At this point, I think only a surprise attack or all out war with the top guns would kill him (Moridin, Fain, Shadar Haran).

 

I highly doubt it will be Gawyn.

[dannyd]

i beleive alivia will either link with rand so he can seal the bore or will hold someone back whos trying to stop him.I think he will kill himself by drawing too much of the one power maybe killing the dark one

[DemandredFO]

Gawyn has gotten Morgase back but he'd kill Rand for Egwene. As much as I hate and loathe Egwene, I don't think she's stupid enough to want him dead. Gawyn is a different story he wanted to kill the hope of the world for 13 books, why let a perfectly good vendetta go.

[Suttree]

Gawyn has gotten Morgase back but he'd kill Rand for Egwene. As much as I hate and loathe Egwene, I don't think she's stupid enough to want him dead. Gawyn is a different story he wanted to kill the hope of the world for 13 books, why let a perfectly good vendetta go.

 

Because Morgase isn't dead? What vendetta is there at this point?

[Terez]

Gawyn has gotten Morgase back but he'd kill Rand for Egwene. As much as I hate and loathe Egwene, I don't think she's stupid enough to want him dead. Gawyn is a different story he wanted to kill the hope of the world for 13 books, why let a perfectly good vendetta go.

 

Because Morgase isn't dead? What vendetta is there at this point?

Because Gawyn is stupid. There's no vendetta any more, but plenty of other reasons why Gawyn might think it wise to kill Rand.

[FarShainMael]

Gawyn has gotten Morgase back but he'd kill Rand for Egwene. As much as I hate and loathe Egwene, I don't think she's stupid enough to want him dead. Gawyn is a different story he wanted to kill the hope of the world for 13 books, why let a perfectly good vendetta go.

 

Indeed, Egwene is not stupid. And even if Gawyn is, he is now bonded to her. They know each other's feelings. If Gawyn ever took it into his head to try to kill Rand for whatever surpassingly, monumentally stupid reason that the author can devise, Egwene would know all about it, and wrap him up in Air to prevent it.

[Wantanswers]

Gawyn has gotten Morgase back but he'd kill Rand for Egwene. As much as I hate and loathe Egwene, I don't think she's stupid enough to want him dead. Gawyn is a different story he wanted to kill the hope of the world for 13 books, why let a perfectly good vendetta go.

 

Because Morgase isn't dead? What vendetta is there at this point?

Because Gawyn is stupid. There's no vendetta any more, but plenty of other reasons why Gawyn might think it wise to kill Rand.

Don't you ever give up this idea.

Gawyn isn't stupid. He is short-sighted. But he also is a man of honor. As soon as he knows that Rand is arrived, he will meet him and offer his excuses.

[DemandredFO]

Gawyn knows what the bond can do, he could be very skilled at shielding the bond to fool everyone. If Gawyn sees all the Nero's fiddling as he perceives it, as Rome is burning, he may act. Those three rings he has are Elven rings, they're for assassinating people. Gawyn may see kill Rand as helping Egwene prevent a catastrophe, again Egwene isn't stupid enough to want Rand dead, but Rand and his channeling allies are too strong. Gawyn may act and get himself killed before he can be balefired but after he's fatally injured Rand.

[FarShainMael]

Or, alternatively: I've suggested elsewhere that Gawyn may be under compulsion. There's a discussion here about what was Aran'gar doing to Egwene, exploring the question of how subtle the Compeller can be and still be effective.

 

Of course, if they're both under Compulsion.. but if Gawyn ever was, I seriously doubt whether any Compulsion survived his encounter with his mother.

 

So we just might see a rather neat inversion here. Eg herself may decide (from her Compulsion) that Rand must be killed; Gawyn, having been healed of his, and being indeed a man of honour, realises what she intends and warns Rand..

[Terez]

Gawyn knows what the bond can do, he could be very skilled at shielding the bond to fool everyone. If Gawyn sees all the Nero's fiddling as he perceives it, as Rome is burning, he may act. Those three rings he has are Elven rings, they're for assassinating people. Gawyn may see kill Rand as helping Egwene prevent a catastrophe, again Egwene isn't stupid enough to want Rand dead, but Rand and his channeling allies are too strong. Gawyn may act and get himself killed before he can be balefired but after he's fatally injured Rand.

I tend to think he'll die (despite what Brandon said about having to live with his mistake) just because Egwene's fork dream seems to suggest that marrying her might be the wrong thing to do. It's the big mystery of the dream - which road leads to which outcome?

[MarkDiLillo]

If Gawyn kills Rand it will ruin the book nearly IMO. Talk about anti-climatic...a minor character that nobody likes or pays attention to suddenly comes out of nowhere and kills the main hero. Lame.

[Aiel Heart]

I think Gawyn's going to get the slap in the face that we all want him to get (like seeing Morgase alive and finding out that his sister is pregnant with Rand's twins) and grudgingly change his mind about Rand.

 

I was too lazy to read all but the first page of this, so sorry if I'm repeating theories or points or anything, but one or a combination of the prophecies/foretellings/views concerning Rand somehow made it seem like he will be alive and dead at the same time somehow. A lot of people thing that his bond with Moridin will have something to do with it, but I don't think that that's the case. I'm not sure how exactly it will happen, but I think that the bond with Moridin will end with something else entirely.

 

I think it's going to come down to Rand (probably bonded with Nyneave and Moraine (or Egwene) (or possibly the pregnant Aviendha and Elayne :P ) and Callandor vs. the Dark One himself.

 

The Dark One has a much more... Direct influence in-your-face on the world than the Creator does and I wouldn't put it past him to take some form and battle Rand himself. He might think it's fun and by then all of the Forsaken might have disappointed him too much to be trusted with the job.

 

Oh and about the bonding options: All five of those women are going to be important something important in the last battle, I'm pretty sure Nyneave will be one of the woman and I know Egwene is going to do something important. She'll be leading the Aes Sedai but I think she might possibly do this as well. But Moraine is now back and she was important to Rand winning the last battle so yeah... But Aviendha and Elayne are his women, though both will be heavily pregnant by this time (Aviendha because there's four of them, Elayne because she'll be far along with the twins--unless she finally gives birth..... O.O She's going to go into labor during the last battle!!!!)

 

But yeah, my take on it. Oh, and I don't care about Alivia and don't think she'll be as important as everyone thinks she is. I don't trust her. At all. I think she'll betray Rand.

[FarShainMael]

The Dark One has a much more... Direct influence in-your-face on the world than the Creator does and I wouldn't put it past him to take some form and battle Rand himself. He might think it's fun and by then all of the Forsaken might have disappointed him too much to be trusted with the job.

 

Rand v Shaidar Haran in the Bore..

 

Rand, a brilliant white sword held in his hand, wielded against one of black, held by a faceless darkness.

[Orderofolde]

No one will Kill Rand. Don't know if it's already been posted, but the Horn of Valere will be blown during the last battle. The two wounds in his side will finally have at each other and leave a gaping wound, leaving him bleeding out. Birgitte will help him up onto a horse and Artur Hawkwing will ride up and tell him it's time to go home. He will ride off into the mists with the Heroes of the Horn to wait to be born again, thus not officially dying, but not living either. I've not seen an author yet who can write of a hero living and settling into a life of farming or raising sheep to have a happy ending with the woman (or women) he loves. The hero always has to go away leaving the road open to the excitement of the unknown and new adventurers.

[OptimusPrime]

Fair point, but the whole point of Tamon Gai'don was that Rand will fight the Dark one, because thats what Tarmon Gai'don is; if thers no final battle the whole climax will be abit of a downer. Mat and Perrin may have another part to play that we don't even know about yet, but I s'pose I can't really talk yet, I'm only up to the 11th book..haha, awkward.

 

But what if Rands fight with the Dark One was to pull the Dark One into him and then die before the Dark One could pull out? It would still be a fight.