Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Why did RJ turn the channeling system on its head?


alykyn
 Share

Recommended Posts

I doubt that Rand has the strength in the One Power to break a 2x13 shield. However, if things went bad, I have no doubt that an earthquake/volcanic eruption/swarm of bees/sudden urge to swear an oath to serve the Lord Dragon from everyone holding him/random visit to the White Tower by every Aes Sedai who follows him/or something would have occurred, causing the women holding the shield to drop it.

Yes, that is my thought on it as well.

 

I recall Darth Rand realising that he could actively shape the pattern around him by sheer will power (like the scene with Tuon where she feels the pressure to agree with him) - I interpreted his confidence as the surety that the Pattern simply would not allow him to be captured on the eve of Tarmon Gai'don.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 133
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The more I think about what Rand did the more I think he must have some hidden aid. What comes to mind is the rind of Tamyrlin (sp). After all, if he has full memories of LTT and the man most likely was the last person who saw the ring, maybe Rand found it (would explain what the hell he was doing for 30 days).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Requires 13 AS to shield any man from saidin, not 13 novices in the Tower. Otherwise the strongest man would be incredibly weak, especially since OP strength is similar to "arm strength".

 

Asmodean: "Some women have stronger arms than some men, but in general it is the other way around. The same holds in the strength in the Power, and in about the same proportion".

 

 

While I think that it would more likely be AS than novices, there's no conclusive proof that 13 novices linked couldn't still shield ANY man since it is stated conclusively that 13 women who can BARELY channel can shield 'most' men and 13 women 'in the Tower' could shield 'ANY man'.

 

As for your 'arm strength' reasoning, I am pretty sure that if one very strong man had to arm wrestle 13 women who would all together use their arm strength arm wrestling him he'd lose.

 

Also, when it comes to linking it's more than just the combined power of the 13 women, otherwise it seems possible that a man COULD be stronger because for one thing the linked women's total strength is less than the sum of their parts. It is more likely that 13 women linked are just too flexible to break the shield. The shield would likely just stretch and stretch and no one man could break it because it's too flexible when 13 women are linked. Similar to how the one Kinswoman had that Talent in Shielding where her shields would bend, but never break and even though she was MUCH weaker than Nynaeve should could shield her or a Forsaken. If we went by strength alone Nyn should have been able to easily break her shield, so her Talent IMO is comparitive to a 13 linked shield.

Edited by alykyn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more I think about what Rand did the more I think he must have some hidden aid. What comes to mind is the rind of Tamyrlin (sp). After all, if he has full memories of LTT and the man most likely was the last person who saw the ring, maybe Rand found it (would explain what the hell he was doing for 30 days).

 

 

:biggrin: Way to make new book even more lame. World of LTT is changed beyond recognition. Unless LTT had a statis box or something, remembering where he left the ring will not amount to much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more I think about what Rand did the more I think he must have some hidden aid. What comes to mind is the rind of Tamyrlin (sp). After all, if he has full memories of LTT and the man most likely was the last person who saw the ring, maybe Rand found it (would explain what the hell he was doing for 30 days).

 

 

:biggrin: Way to make new book even more lame. World of LTT is changed beyond recognition. Unless LTT had a statis box or something, remembering where he left the ring will not amount to much.

Haha, Ring of Tamyrlin or no, the thought is a good one. As we saw in Maradon, Rand Sedai is pretty awesome. It could well be that the sisters were shielding him with every way they knew how, but they'd missed out on some subtleties that the greatest channeler who's ever existed could exploit and use :).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thoughts on this: no, RJ did not turn the channeling system on its head.

 

1- Egwene only *thought* that Rand could break the 2x13 shield. That's an effect of Rand's tavereness. It doesn't mean Egwene was right.

 

2- Rand's kids, IIRC, are only described as being constantly "comforted" by the presence of the OP. I don't recall it being explicitly stated that they can hold on to the power indefinitely.

 

3- Maradon: did everybody forget Tarwin's Gap in end of TEOTW? Rand has done this kind of stuff before. The first time, he unleashed the raw power of pure Saidin. At Maradon, he used the combined expertise of his previous incarnation and his new-found enlightenment. And he most likely had an angreal with him.

 

People also seem to underestimate Rand's channeling capabilities. He is not just slightly stronger than other Ashaman, he is, by the book's definition, the STRONGEST male channeler in existence. Not only that, but he is the ONLY one, apart from the Forsaken, to have knowledge of AoL weaves. And even in the AoL, LTT was acknowledged as the most powerful channeler in the world. Did you think they called him Lord of the Morning and Prince of the Dawn as mere flattery?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thoughts on this: no, RJ did not turn the channeling system on its head.

 

1- Egwene only *thought* that Rand could break the 2x13 shield. That's an effect of Rand's tavereness. It doesn't mean Egwene was right.

 

2- Rand's kids, IIRC, are only described as being constantly "comforted" by the presence of the OP. I don't recall it being explicitly stated that they can hold on to the power indefinitely.

 

3- Maradon: did everybody forget Tarwin's Gap in end of TEOTW? Rand has done this kind of stuff before. The first time, he unleashed the raw power of pure Saidin. At Maradon, he used the combined expertise of his previous incarnation and his new-found enlightenment. And he most likely had an angreal with him.

 

People also seem to underestimate Rand's channeling capabilities. He is not just slightly stronger than other Ashaman, he is, by the book's definition, the STRONGEST male channeler in existence. Not only that, but he is the ONLY one, apart from the Forsaken, to have knowledge of AoL weaves. And even in the AoL, LTT was acknowledged as the most powerful channeler in the world. Did you think they called him Lord of the Morning and Prince of the Dawn as mere flattery?

 

Couldn't agree more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's reasonable to assume that Bashere wouldn't want to pull out of his hometown unless he was outnumbered by at least 5x1 or worse. The second assault could have had around 500K or more trollocs coming in.

 

That's a pretty flawed assumption.

 

There are plenty of reasons Bashere would want to pull out:

 

1- The city gates were breached: fortifications are now gone.

 

2- Trollocs are much stronger than humans. One on one, the average human soldier would get ripped apart by the average trolloc. Add to that mix myrdraal, who are described as being able to wipe out entire squads of soldiers by themselves, and the Shadowspawn don't have to outnumber humans to be able to overpower them.

 

3- The Shadowspawn had Dreadlords.

 

4- Most importantly, was the city STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT ENOUGH for Bashere to sacrifice a significant amount of his forces to defend it? Maybe Bashere did not think so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

1) To be fair LTT created an entire MOUNTAIN, so Maradon is not that mind blowing overall, furthermore LTT was unleashing unfocused raw energy, imagine what could be accomplished if that power had been focused ON something? Its true that he burned himself out, but he had also been insane for some time beforehand, so when i imagine a fresh healthy Rand i actually fail to see how we have witnessed even close to his full potential.

2) I think the 'Asmodean problem' is a literary one, considering what Asmodean says i interpreted it as: 13 can shield any single man...and most men (plural), as in more than one man at a time. I like the flexibility suggestion though, that with so many in the circle the shield is like a fluid net that cannot break but bends and twines around, BUT i think flexibility is a matter of speed too, throwing a bullet at someones vest wont rip it but shooting the bullet will, so im not sure how comprehensive that theory is.

3) Another suggestion for the Asmodean problem is that he is male and he doesn't know what current-age shields look like. His conceptualisation of a shield is completely different from how women make them now but he is unlikely to know that.

4) Egwenes POV can't be trusted even slightly in my opinion. These women can't move or speak, yet 26 have successfully linked and shielded the Dragon? She needs to stop the Dragon yet somehow cant stop him while he is right in front of her? But gathering a couple of armies is going to help, gathering the DRAGONS armies is going to help and they are all going to believe her just like that? No wonder Rand is calm, this situation is HILARIOUS, he watches in bemusement as she gets run over roughshod by the Pattern. This is only my opinion but i think this is one of the funniest scenes when i imagine what it must look like from Rands perspective.

5) In regards to Rands children there are just too many things it could be (he could BECOME the source for all we know, which is why they feel comforted by it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...