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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

alykyn

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About alykyn

  • Birthday October 28

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    Death becomes her..

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  1. While I think that it would more likely be AS than novices, there's no conclusive proof that 13 novices linked couldn't still shield ANY man since it is stated conclusively that 13 women who can BARELY channel can shield 'most' men and 13 women 'in the Tower' could shield 'ANY man'. As for your 'arm strength' reasoning, I am pretty sure that if one very strong man had to arm wrestle 13 women who would all together use their arm strength arm wrestling him he'd lose. Also, when it comes to linking it's more than just the combined power of the 13 women, otherwise it seems possible that a man COULD be stronger because for one thing the linked women's total strength is less than the sum of their parts. It is more likely that 13 women linked are just too flexible to break the shield. The shield would likely just stretch and stretch and no one man could break it because it's too flexible when 13 women are linked. Similar to how the one Kinswoman had that Talent in Shielding where her shields would bend, but never break and even though she was MUCH weaker than Nynaeve should could shield her or a Forsaken. If we went by strength alone Nyn should have been able to easily break her shield, so her Talent IMO is comparitive to a 13 linked shield.
  2. Yes, but the keywords are "barely channel" as in regards to the 'most men'. And "The thirteen weakest women in the Tower could overpower you or any man, and barely breathe hard." That doesn't even specify them being Aes Sedai, just 'in the tower', so that would even include novices. I think regardless of Rand's level of strength at this point Asmodean already knows what "any man" ie LTT, Ishamael, Aginor, etc can do with the Power, so he wouldnt have said "any man" if he meant "most men". If 13 of the weakest initiates of the tower can shield ANY man, then certainly 13 AS can, and certainly no woman used to shield a man would be weak, so really what Asmodean was saying was that due to some unexplained reason it is virtually impossible to break a circle of that size, even for LTT, even if the women are the WEAKEST women. Therefore, just the idea that Egwene has that Rand can break a 13 shield, let alone TWO based on his channeling abilities alone is preposterous.
  3. Just to play with this point a bit more, I think Egwene says she is sure that Rand could break the shield with ease if he wanted to and that she felt she dare not even try to prevent him from leaving as she was sure that he could not be held no matter how strong a shield was placed on him. This is significant since she is the ONLY one who was NOT really affected by the super powerful ta'veren'ness Rand was drawing on in this scene, remember no other Aes Sedai but Egwene was even able to open their mouth to speak. Egwene was not affected, maybe because she knew Rand well, and still she was sure that they could not have held that shield on him should he wished to have broken it, to me that says either she still felt his ta'veren'ness enough to be overly worried, or somehow she actually could sense that his power had increased beyond anything the Aes Sedai had encountered before.
  4. I think they will have a few pages, and somehow 'find' the Song. If they don't then basically they were useless to the storyline and I doubt that they would be around since the very beginning if they don't have some way to wrap up their storyline too.
  5. I think his role will be relatively small since everything that's still in the air has to get wrapped up in one book (they should already be a lot closer to it before this book). I do recall that Loial was getting the other Ogier involved in the war against the Shadow, so I'm sure he and they will at least be in some battles, but I'm thinking no more than a page or two max where he is speaking, if that.
  6. Even the Chosen will admit that enough of these 'so called Aes Sedai' could be dangerous to them and that a shield of 13 Aes Sedai can not be broken. Heck Semmirhage's shield was held by what 2, 3 of these so called Aes Sedai (and not even notably strong ones to boot!). However Rand is now supposedly so strong that not even 2 circles of 13 could hold him. According to everything RJ has shown us before this is extremely contradictory to his channeling system. From the Age of Legends no one has been more powerful than UltraRand is now, why suddenly is this supposed to be believable? Ok, so he isn't insane any more, he doesn't hear LTT in his head and he doesn't have the sickness when seizing Saidin, but even with every bit of knowledge LTT has, how does that make him infinitely stronger than LTT ever, ever was? Unlike some others, its not like Rand really invented any weaves of his own, practically everything came from someone else's advice including LTT so there's no 'Rand knowledge' to really add to LTT's. What Rand did in Maradon was effectively 'wrong' according to everything RJ has stated that a channeler can do unaided. Now in Aviendha's going through the pillars she sees this possible future where her and Rand's children not only channel from birth, but they can channel continuously without ever having to release the OP. Huh?!? Sure it may sound cool, but this ALSO goes against EVERYTHING that RJ has taught us. Aviendha is strong, but she's not THAT strong for her and Rand's genetics to go insane. Heck, I wouldn't even accept this if Rand screwed around with Alivia or even Lanfear and produced these kids. Maybe you will just chalk it up to Rand's ta'veren'ness in being able to break the double 13 circle, but Maradon too? And no matter what excuse for Rand someone can come up with, whats the excuse for his god like children's abilities? Surely with the DO sealed/destroyed/whatever there would be no reason for his kids to be ta'verens even stronger than the Dragon Reborn, so after thousands and thousands of years of genetic pairings that follow RJ's One Power rules suddenly all the rules are shattered to pieces and thrown out the window? Do we know for sure this is what RJ even wanted? I mean we don't know if RJ even wrote any of this in his notes so who knows why this even happened. It just seems out of character for RJ to shatter all these OP rules he's been using for a dozen books. And if this was his explicit desire why doesn't it make any logical sense that fits in with the other dozen books? I wonder if Rand is now even more powerful than he was with the Choedan Kal? *boggles*
  7. Add a some of both option and that would be my pick.
  8. Interesting.. I hadn't thought that Aginor actually needed tools (What else can that be but ter'angreals?) to create ShadowSpawn. I always view ter'angreals as more like 'assistant weaves', meaning that anything they can do can be created with a weave, so I'm still unsure what sort of 'tools' he would need that he couldn't create with weaves. Unless there was also some sort of science in the AoL that had nothing to do with channeling?
  9. I don't think our arguments are mutually exclusive. I can argue that the "life" of LTT's voice in Rands mind was 'brought about' by his madness and is therefore not the action of his madness but rather the effect of his madness. The LTT voice could quite literally be a real person and a real connection between previous lives of the soul, perverted from its original intent (of guiding the dragon through memories) - and only accessible through and with the taint. Which is interesting if you consider that death is not beyond the DO's grasp. ahhhh :) See my long post before, I basically agree. LTT was not 'real' except the taint made him 'real'. No madness from the taint, no LTT.
  10. Agree completely. I think you have made the case very well (far better than I could have) but as I alluded to previously no amount of evidence will make fish change his mind so this won't either. Despite it being a clear, compelling argument. Thanks!
  11. Well.. Let's examine the facts. 1) Prior to actively channeling Rand never made ANY indication of having any memories not his own and ever hearing LTT in his head. 2) Post actively channeling he: a) Remembers memories of LTT b) 'Hears' LTT talking to him. 3) Channeling Saidin is tainted and the taint causes madness. 4) Nynaeve knows what the taint looks like when it causes madness and when she healed the taint, the person who was affected became sane again. 5) After VOG Rand became 'sane', ie he no longer heard LTT ever again. 6) Nynaeve observed that there was something (the 'whiteness') that was specifically countering each piece of taint that caused madness inside Rand's mind. Conclusion: The facts are once he started channeling tainted Saidin he started going mad. LTT was not 'real', but the memories and LTT were part of the madness. The madness takes different forms for everyone, and for Rand the madness was that he became in touch with his actual past life; something people who are reborn are not supposed to remember. Once he was able to utilize the strange abilities he received in VOG it cancelled out (but not removed the madness) thus integrating him with his past life as LTT (among others).
  12. I think both Jordan and Martin would disagree with your opinion of LotR. And I know that neither would be thrilled to be compared to Goodkind Lotr was boring, many people agree. If you remove Gandalf from the series no one would have even wanted to read it. The best scenes in the series involved Gandalf fighting the Balrog, or Saruman. It had great potential, but it over used the Hobbits and severly underused the other ring bearers and their abilities to fight back against Sauron. It was all on Frodo, well actually Sam was the real hero, Frodo already gave in at the end. Anyhoo, Jordan and Martin wrote their books much better than Lotr. Maybe for it's time it was 'all that', but by the time I read it there was nothing I hadn't seen before by Jordan, Martin (or Goodkind) that wasn't done much better.
  13. Yeah, more creative licensing it looks like. If he was that powerful than Moridin should have been able to wipe out Rand wherever he was staying like one of the 'Gars tried to do.
  14. Doh. Did he have the access key in VoG? If he did then never mind, of course he could have destroyed the world with it. I was remembering that he didn't have it, in which case it made no sense how he could be that powerful, but obviously with it he could do just about anything.
  15. IIRC Rand thought something to the effect of how he had enough power in VoG to destroy the world. My question is, how is this possible? Rand is strong, as was LTT, but neither of them could draw enough of the OP to destroy the world. Case in point, Ishy/Moridin being his virtual equal can not do this; if he could then he'd have done it for the DO already. I hate when writers keep making characters more and more and MORE powerful to the point where they break all their own rules far and away! LTT drew all the OP he could draw and more and what he did was create a small mountain, not annihilate the world. With the access key I can believe this would be 'possible', but that made his strength in the OP probably thousands,maybe millions of times more than he could handle unaided; they said the beacon of his drawing Saidin could be seen by a channeler anywhere in the world. So is this just some 'creative licensing' on the part of the author, or are we really supposed to throw out the wholechanneling system and believe that Rand was more powerful than when he cleansed Saidin, or even 1/1000th as close unaided? Edit: Doh. Did he have the access key in VoG? If he did then never mind, of course he could have destroyed the world with it. I was remembering that he didn't have it, in which case it made no sense how he could be that powerful, but obviously with it he could do just about anything.
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