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How did Aginor become young?


alykyn
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Granted, we've never seen anything else like the 'Eye'. No other pools of Saidin or Saidar or True Power,

however that doesn't quite explain how channeling from the Eye made Aginor get younger. Sure it sounds cool

and in any other magic system "it would just be", but in WoT everything needs an explanation, so what was it?

 

Some kind of weave that can make your cells regenerate so fast you become young again?

 

A weave that creates an inner time portal to your youth?

 

Essence of Smurfette?

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In my sig, there's a WoT Reference Library link. On that page, there's a link to the Interview Database. From there, go to the Aginor category. This is explained by RJ, along with many other things about Aginor.

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In my sig, there's a WoT Reference Library link. On that page, there's a link to the Interview Database. From there, go to the Aginor category. This is explained by RJ, along with many other things about Aginor.

 

 

Cool thanks, so this answers something, but just that it was the True Power that youthened him.

 

Still, we've never seen it used again & that makes even less sense now because the True Power was not a well

of physical untainted Saidin, it's a power that is semi available to any Forsaken, especially Moridin.

 

Also the TP usually mimics the OP closely (even with the Dove it is similar to Compulsion), so what OP weave

makes you turn young? The closest answer is an Oath Rod, but even that one really just unlocks the prison of

the agelessness weave that is on you, so using that point it would be as if Aginor had a oath rod binder on

him still during his 3000 year sealing, and using the TP he somehow just unlocked his agelessness weave and

thereby reverted to younger years.

 

Still, as many would point out, how would Aginor ever be or still be bound by an Oath or other Binder Rod?

 

Likely he would not, so what possible weave would this 'Youth Weave' of True Power be mimicking in the One Power?

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In my sig, there's a WoT Reference Library link. On that page, there's a link to the Interview Database. From there, go to the Aginor category. This is explained by RJ, along with many other things about Aginor.

 

 

Cool thanks, so this answers something, but just that it was the True Power that youthened him.

 

Still, we've never seen it used again & that makes even less sense now because the True Power was not a well

of physical untainted Saidin, it's a power that is semi available to any Forsaken, especially Moridin.

 

Also the TP usually mimics the OP closely (even with the Dove it is similar to Compulsion), so what OP weave

makes you turn young? The closest answer is an Oath Rod, but even that one really just unlocks the prison of

the agelessness weave that is on you, so using that point it would be as if Aginor had a oath rod binder on

him still during his 3000 year sealing, and using the TP he somehow just unlocked his agelessness weave and

thereby reverted to younger years.

 

Still, as many would point out, how would Aginor ever be or still be bound by an Oath or other Binder Rod?

 

Likely he would not, so what possible weave would this 'Youth Weave' of True Power be mimicking in the One Power?

That is incorrect, you can also do stuff with TP that you can do with OP,like flying .

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Guest PiotrekS

This explanation is weird - why would he be drawing on the True Power when he was also tapping the Eye? Is it even possible to use the One Power and the True Power simultaneously?

 

And why would he get young because of this?

 

I agree with Delrian.

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I think you're all forgetting about the closest effect we have: when a woman (and presumably a man) is stilled, they "grow young again" - not quite sure how much younger, Siuan seemed to "de-age" 20 years or so? But that's a precedent anyway for seeing someone grow younger through an effect of the power.

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Women who are stilled do not "grow young again." Aes Sedai have an ageless look. When they are severed, that fades because the Oaths are broken.

 

When the ageless look fades, Aes Sedai begin to look how they would look if they had never taken the Oaths. People who can channel are slowed. That is how some members of the Kin who are several centuries old only look like they are in their 50s or 60s.

 

So Siuan only reverted to the way she would have looked had she never sworn on the Oath Rod.

 

And why would he get young because of this?

 

Because it's a side effect of the True Power. It rejuvenates the body and allows for immortality.

 

This explanation is weird - why would he be drawing on the True Power when he was also tapping the Eye?

 

Who knows. But it seems that he was.

 

Is it even possible to use the One Power and the True Power simultaneously?

 

According to RJ, yes.

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But if it's just using the True Power that does that, why does he wait untill he's drawing from the Eye? Why don't he and Balthamel rejuvinate themselves right away?

 

And does that mean now theat Moridin has begin restricting who can use the True Power, anyone he cuts off will age like a normal un Oathbound Aes Sedai?

 

Still feels kinda fishy.

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Guest PiotrekS

Women who are stilled do not "grow young again." Aes Sedai have an ageless look. When they are severed, that fades because the Oaths are broken.

 

When the ageless look fades, Aes Sedai begin to look how they would look if they had never taken the Oaths. People who can channel are slowed. That is how some members of the Kin who are several centuries old only look like they are in their 50s or 60s.

 

So Siuan only reverted to the way she would have looked had she never sworn on the Oath Rod.

 

And why would he get young because of this?

 

Because it's a side effect of the True Power. It rejuvenates the body and allows for immortality.

 

This explanation is weird - why would he be drawing on the True Power when he was also tapping the Eye?

 

Who knows. But it seems that he was.

 

Is it even possible to use the One Power and the True Power simultaneously?

 

According to RJ, yes.

 

Thanks, it makes more sense now :smile:

 

I still have some doubts - so Aginor was using both TP and OP and still got defeated by Rand? Or maybe as he was straining to win the fight, he reached for the TP and that's why he was burned - he took in too much of TP.

 

Or maybe the Dark One realised Aginor wasn't acting according to plan and withdrew his permision for using the TP while Aginor was in the middle of channeling it, therefore frying him?

 

So the gift of immortality the Forsaken receive and the permission for TP are the same thing? If not, how does the two relate?

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The real answer:

 

RJ wrote the first book many years before he formulated the details that we all know and love so well. When he realized that the first book broke some of the "rules" of the OP he jumped to the TP to explain away the inconsistencies. It's not rocket science. RJ was not perfect, and there are some clear oddities in the first book compared to the later ones where the rules of the world are defined.

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Guest PiotrekS

The real answer:

 

RJ wrote the first book many years before he formulated the details that we all know and love so well. When he realized that the first book broke some of the "rules" of the OP he jumped to the TP to explain away the inconsistencies. It's not rocket science. RJ was not perfect, and there are some clear oddities in the first book compared to the later ones where the rules of the world are defined.

 

Yes, I know. It was said a few posts above.

 

But maybe it makes sense to see if these inconsistences could somehow be explained. If not, then we're left with your answer.

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Sharina, the older woman who joins the rebel Aes Sedai and whose potential is a lot greater than Nynaeve's appears to get younger the more she channels. I'm pretty sure we see this in one of Romanda's POVs, so it is something we've seen again. Channeling will make you more youthful if you're really old, I think Aginor was just drawing a huge amount from the Eye, so it hqappened quickly.s

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I still have some doubts - so Aginor was using both TP and OP and still got defeated by Rand?

 

He didn't get defeated by Rand. Rand didn't do anything but draw on the Eye. Aginor merely drew too much in his frenzy and burned himself up (the same way Lews Therin killed himself in the beginning).

 

Or maybe as he was straining to win the fight, he reached for the TP and that's why he was burned - he took in too much of TP.

 

There wasn't really a fight in the strictest sense. Just a battle of wills to see who could draw the most Power. Aginor drew too much of the One Power, the True Power was just there. Most certainly a retroactive continuity shift to explain a detail of the One Power in the beginning that didn't mesh with the rest of the series.

 

Or maybe the Dark One realised Aginor wasn't acting according to plan and withdrew his permision for using the TP while Aginor was in the middle of channeling it, therefore frying him?

 

See above. He merely drew too much of the One Power.

 

So the gift of immortality the Forsaken receive and the permission for TP are the same thing? If not, how does the two relate?

 

Sort of. The immortality the Great Lord grants his Chosen is through the connection he maintains with him. This connection is their access to the True Power (since the Great Lord is the source of the True Power, it is merely a connection directly to him). However, just because they have access to it doesn't mean that they have permission to use it. Generally, they understand they aren't really supposed to use it, but the Great Lord probably wouldn't frown upon its use. Also, they all generally avoid using it.

 

But if it's just using the True Power that does that, why does he wait untill he's drawing from the Eye? Why don't he and Balthamel rejuvinate themselves right away?

 

Good question, and really can only be answered by saying: RJ didn't think of the True Power answer when he wrote it, but that doesn't make the answer any less valid.

 

And does that mean now theat Moridin has begin restricting who can use the True Power, anyone he cuts off will age like a normal un Oathbound Aes Sedai?

 

No. The connection to the Great Lord is what grants them immortality, not the use of the True Power itself.

 

If you want, you can think of those black cords as a sort of IV drip of True Power which feeds just enough to maintain immortality, but not enough to cause any of the other side effects. Only when one actually takes hold of the True Power is that youth-granting property turned up to 11 and people see things like a horrendously aged man suddenly become young again. Of course, that horrendous aging was mostly due in part to the nature of Lews Therin's seal on the Great Lord's prison and where Balthamel and Aginor were caught in the seal (on the edge of it). So their aging isn't precisely analogous to regular aging and the effects True Power would have on an ordinary old person.

 

Still feels kinda fishy.

 

Of course it does. As has been said, it was most likely something that RJ wrote down 'cause it sounded good, and the True Power became the explanation when he realized there was a continuity error. He retcon'd it. However, as I said, the nature of the explanation or the origin of the explanation does not invalidate the explanation itself. You just have to accept that it's only a halfhearted explanation about something which RJ didn't really fully think through when he first wrote tEotW.

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Guest PiotrekS

Thanks, Roxinos! :smile: Have you thought on writing a Ph.D.on this subject? :tongue:

 

There is this Brandon quote that he's 90% sure it was Rand who unconsciously killed Aginor, but I have always understood it the way you do - that Aginor overdosed the OP.

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