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A thought about the two Rand trusts


MarkDiLillo
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I'm not sure if this has been touched on yet anywhere, but is it possible that the two Rand trusts to use Callandor with him will end up being Moghedien and Cyndane? And obviously at that stage he would be one with Moridin somehow and he would trust them because he's holding their mindtraps.

 

I don't remember if anywhere specifically says that one of the two in his link will be Nynaeve or if it's just assumed because he's asked her. This might fit the black onyx hand holding Callandor viewing.

 

I was just bored glancing over some WoT stuff and the thought suddenly came to me so I thought I'd shoot it out here for everyone to dissect.

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Eh would be a bit pointless to have mentioned Nynaeve doing it if she doesn't in the end, aside from anything else. Plus there would be a nice symetry(sp) to it seeing as Nynaeve helped him with cleansing the source.

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Eh would be a bit pointless to have mentioned Nynaeve doing it if she doesn't in the end, aside from anything else. Plus there would be a nice symetry(sp) to it seeing as Nynaeve helped him with cleansing the source.

 

Ya, I agree. The idea just came to me and I thought I'd let some of the more fantatic WoT experts see if it fit any other theories, prophecies, foreshadowings, etc. I can definitely see something like that happening, but I dont see much evidence supporting it yet.

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Well I can see Cyndane maybe getting involved (again with the symetry as she helped drill the Bore), but Moghedian...no foreshadowing there really, and I'm hoping she'll finally get killed by Nynaeve lol. Oh gosh imagine Egwene's reaction if Rand ended up using one/two of the Forsaken to seal the Bore? She's bad enough about his plan as it is.

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Well I can see Cyndane maybe getting involved (again with the symetry as she helped drill the Bore), but Moghedian...no foreshadowing there really, and I'm hoping she'll finally get killed by Nynaeve lol. Oh gosh imagine Egwene's reaction if Rand ended up using one/two of the Forsaken to seal the Bore? She's bad enough about his plan as it is.

 

lol well I dont propose that it is his PLAN to use those two by any means, but I'm just wondering if he somehow becomes Moridin in a way and uses those two to link with him. idk, moghedien is another character that I can see coming back to the light potentially...if only because she's always been such a coward and if she sees that the light might win she will have no problem jumping ship.

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Come on, if Rand decides to use Moghedien of all people instead of Nynaeve in the circle, Nynaeve will be so mad at him she'll probably balefire him on the spot. ;)

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Well I can see Cyndane maybe getting involved (again with the symetry as she helped drill the Bore)

 

Agreed.

 

It would also be good symetry between Nynaeve (Light, extremely caring about others) and Cyndane (Dark, selfish). They both have a strong connection to Rand in different ways, and also happen to be the most powerful saidar channelers alive as far as I know, so it would also make sense on a raw strength available point of view.

 

I doubt it will actually happen like that, but I would like it to.

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I find it extremely difficult to believe that Moghedien would ever return to the light. The spider has been lurking in the shadow far too long. Plus she has some serious personal grudges against the supergirls, so no. I wouldn't be surprised if Lanfear somehow in some way does a favor to the light though.

 

Another question is how Alivia (name? The former a'dam which powers are greater then Nynaeves) will fit in it all. She really isn't mentioned much since Rand Sedai emerged but I sure have not forgotten about her.

 

Edit: meant former damane, not former a'dam, and her name is Alivia so my memory served me right.

Edited by Endyowitch
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Well personally I think it will be Nynaeve and Moiraine.

 

But I can see Cyndane being in it, even though i dont think Rand would trust her so far as to actually link with Callandor, but I admit it is possible. She knows how she drilled the bore, perhaps she needs to weave something similar. But saying that, she could just show Nynave or Moiraine the weaves and they can do it themselves. (ooooor, again, she may be the only one strong enough to)

 

So who knows.

 

Moggy I think is pretty useless. There is no reason for Rand to even want to link with her. She is not particularly strong in the power (not like Cyndane) not to make a big difference, she shows no sign of turning ot the light, no reason for rand to trust her, we have no indication she knows anything important unlike Cyndane, and she is just annoying.

 

So I can see 3 things happening.

 

Nynaeve, Moiraine.

Nynave Lanfear.

Moiraine Lanfear. (ha! Wouldnt that be great with their history)

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Moiraine Lanfear. (ha! Wouldnt that be great with their history)

 

Indeed! Powerful symbolism there too. However, no matter how much I love Moiraine, I might still root for Nynaeve for that one. She's been the closest person to Rand for so long now, and also has never faltered in her love/care/loyalty to the Emond's Fielders. She also makes a lot more sense as far as raw strength goes, Moiraine being extremely diminished now (OK, Moiraine has a cool angreal to compensate for that, but she could just lend it to Nyn and they'll get even more power out of that).

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I highly doubt it will be Moiraine linking with him. She's too weak at this point, and she seems to have taken a back seat. I think Moiraine's purpose will be somehow related to Lanfear and what happened during their stay in the ToG - she will reveal something important to Rand.

 

The circle will be Nynaeve and Mierin...or maybe Nynaeve and Alivia.

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Power will be meaningless. If it was about power he wouldnt have destoyed the key. Nynaeve is definitely in, unless something dumb like the Tower holding her captive happens. But I doubt Egwene pulls something like that. I could see the Tower "voting" to stop her or something though. Still doubt it would stop her from going. Regardless, Rand could just walk in and free her with no problems.

 

Other likely Candidates: Moiraine Lanfear Aviendha. The problem with that Lanfear is the mind trap. Will Moridin fall before the sealing? Probably not. They are probably on guard duty at the BT. Moiraine is my choice, because Rand will trust her over Lanfear. Aviendha will probably be busy with her people. I think if Rand will plan on asking her until he is reunited with Mo.

 

Other possible, but not very likely: Cads and her group. They respect Rand for the most part. I just dont see it ever happening. I think if anything they will support Rand at the FOM. Alanna, Alivia- Just dont see either being the choice.

--

I can see Lanfear showing the weaves to Nynaeve/Mo and they use them to close it. Then she turns and takes out Moridin which kills herself or something.

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Power will be meaningless. If it was about power he wouldnt have destoyed the key. Nynaeve is definitely in, unless something dumb like the Tower holding her captive happens. But I doubt Egwene pulls something like that. I could see the Tower "voting" to stop her or something though. Still doubt it would stop her from going. Regardless, Rand could just walk in and free her with no problems.

 

Other likely Candidates: Moiraine Lanfear Aviendha. The problem with that Lanfear is the mind trap. Will Moridin fall before the sealing? Probably not. They are probably on guard duty at the BT. Moiraine is my choice, because Rand will trust her over Lanfear. Aviendha will probably be busy with her people. I think if Rand will plan on asking her until he is reunited with Mo.

 

Other possible, but not very likely: Cads and her group. They respect Rand for the most part. I just dont see it ever happening. I think if anything they will support Rand at the FOM. Alanna, Alivia- Just dont see either being the choice.

--

I can see Lanfear showing the weaves to Nynaeve/Mo and they use them to close it. Then she turns and takes out Moridin which kills herself or something.

 

Moiraine is so weak that she can barely light a camp fire with the OP now. IMO that's a pretty clear sign that she is not going to be part of the Callandor link. I know strength is not everything, but it IS important. Especially when you're fighting....you know...the most important BATTLE IN HISTORY. I see the fact that Moiraine is so weak in the OP now as an intentional way to write her out of the link so that another can replace her without us going "wtf Moiraine is back why wouldn't Rand have her as part of the link?!"

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Power will be meaningless. If it was about power he wouldnt have destoyed the key. Nynaeve is definitely in, unless something dumb like the Tower holding her captive happens. But I doubt Egwene pulls something like that. I could see the Tower "voting" to stop her or something though. Still doubt it would stop her from going. Regardless, Rand could just walk in and free her with no problems.

 

Other likely Candidates: Moiraine Lanfear Aviendha. The problem with that Lanfear is the mind trap. Will Moridin fall before the sealing? Probably not. They are probably on guard duty at the BT. Moiraine is my choice, because Rand will trust her over Lanfear. Aviendha will probably be busy with her people. I think if Rand will plan on asking her until he is reunited with Mo.

 

Other possible, but not very likely: Cads and her group. They respect Rand for the most part. I just dont see it ever happening. I think if anything they will support Rand at the FOM. Alanna, Alivia- Just dont see either being the choice.

--

I can see Lanfear showing the weaves to Nynaeve/Mo and they use them to close it. Then she turns and takes out Moridin which kills herself or something.

 

Moiraine is so weak that she can barely light a camp fire with the OP now. IMO that's a pretty clear sign that she is not going to be part of the Callandor link. I know strength is not everything, but it IS important. Especially when you're fighting....you know...the most important BATTLE IN HISTORY. I see the fact that Moiraine is so weak in the OP now as an intentional way to write her out of the link so that another can replace her without us going "wtf Moiraine is back why wouldn't Rand have her as part of the link?!"

she can draw upon the angreal she has which pushes her net power above beforeo she was captured

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Power will be meaningless. If it was about power he wouldnt have destoyed the key. Nynaeve is definitely in, unless something dumb like the Tower holding her captive happens. But I doubt Egwene pulls something like that. I could see the Tower "voting" to stop her or something though. Still doubt it would stop her from going. Regardless, Rand could just walk in and free her with no problems.

 

Other likely Candidates: Moiraine Lanfear Aviendha. The problem with that Lanfear is the mind trap. Will Moridin fall before the sealing? Probably not. They are probably on guard duty at the BT. Moiraine is my choice, because Rand will trust her over Lanfear. Aviendha will probably be busy with her people. I think if Rand will plan on asking her until he is reunited with Mo.

 

Other possible, but not very likely: Cads and her group. They respect Rand for the most part. I just dont see it ever happening. I think if anything they will support Rand at the FOM. Alanna, Alivia- Just dont see either being the choice.

--

I can see Lanfear showing the weaves to Nynaeve/Mo and they use them to close it. Then she turns and takes out Moridin which kills herself or something.

 

Moiraine is so weak that she can barely light a camp fire with the OP now. IMO that's a pretty clear sign that she is not going to be part of the Callandor link. I know strength is not everything, but it IS important. Especially when you're fighting....you know...the most important BATTLE IN HISTORY. I see the fact that Moiraine is so weak in the OP now as an intentional way to write her out of the link so that another can replace her without us going "wtf Moiraine is back why wouldn't Rand have her as part of the link?!"

she can draw upon the angreal she has which pushes her net power above beforeo she was captured

 

I dont buy that. With that logic, anyone with any power level can use any angreal or ter'angreal of any kind by just stacking angreals up.

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According to Moiraine, the angreal that was given to her by the "finns allows her to draw more One Power than she was able to use alone with out any kind of aid before she was captured by the Finns.

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I dont buy that. With that logic, anyone with any power level can use any angreal or ter'angreal of any kind by just stacking angreals up.

 

If the discussion is about whether you CAN stack angreals, it can be done. We saw that in TSR, during Rand's fight with Asmodean. If the discussion is about whether an angreal can affect how much you draw through another angreal, though, I think that you are correct. The limiting factor with the Choedan Kal seems to have been a person's native strength. Angreals seem to multiply or add to a person's native strength - there was an angreal Elayne gave Aviendha to use in the circle that used the Bowl of the Winds which allowed one to double the amount they could safely draw. That implies that the angreal doubles your native strength, not whatever you happen to be able to hold due to whatever other knickknacks you have on your person at that time.

 

Anyway, I don't think having an angreal on her will make Moiraine able to draw massive amounts of saidin from Callandor. The limiter on that is how strong the holder of Callandor is, and since that is Rand, that will be as much as anyone in WOT history could draw. The angreal will only affect the amount of saidar she can draw, and since her strength isn't so eroded that the amount she can draw now is negligible, I have to think that will be sufficient to the task. Also figure in that you have the strength of the other woman in the link needed to use Callandor safely. There will be plenty of power available.

 

I keep coming back to Min's viewing about Moiraine, that Rand would fail without her. She has to be there, and she has to be really important, for that to be true. I think it means she is in the circle. I also think Nynaeve is in it as well, because Rand trusts her implicitly. So there are your two. Someone said above that strength in the Power isn't the issue, or he wouldn't have destroyed the CK, and I tend to agree with that. Sheer brute force won't win the day.

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I assumed it would be Nynaeve and Egwene due to Ishamael wanting them captured and transported to Seandar.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Remmber that Nynaeve can still be taken out of the picture if say she comes up pregnant. Remember what happens when you try to channel when you are pregnant. Definitely wouldn't want that happening. I doubt this will be the case but I mentioned because it does give an easy out for Nynaeve not to be one of those in the link.

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Whilst I wouldn't have been surprised if Lan turns out to die, and Nynaeve turns out to be pregnant with his child ("He's not completely gone after all!"/"He lives on in his children!" thing), bear in mind that Nynaeve has been channeling a lot since last she saw Lan. Very effectively. I think its unlikely that she'll suddenly turn out to be pregnant and be unable to channel properly. Bear in mind, she's one of the strongest channelers the Light side has, not to mention her healing skills. It would be extremely disappointing if her role in the Last Battle was reduced to sitting on the sidelines being pregnant :P Not to mention, Nynaeve was a Wisdom for years before she became AS, and most of her work since has also involved healing. I'm pretty sure she'd have noticed some signs by now if she's pregnant, unless its been a lot less time than I suspect- bear in mind, Lan has to ride the length of the Borderlands, that's got to take a few weeks at least?

 

If she is pregnant, I don't think the effects on channeling will kick in until after the Last Battle. If Nynaeve is taken out, I'm guessing its because:

 

a) Rand frees her from her agreement to help him, so that she can go and back up Lan and the Malkieri. I don't think this is hugely likely, as I would have thought both Rand and Nynaeve know that they need to seal the DO, first and foremost.

 

b) Egwene/ WT refuses to let her. Let's be honest, this has a 0 chance of working, if they try and stop her against her will, then either Rand will just free her, or the threat of his allied armies, which contain several channelers, will cause them to change their minds, or Nynaeve will simply renounce the WT. Either way, they gain a lot of hostility, and lose their most powerful sister. Nynaeve's made it clear she'll do this with or without their consent, and if, through some miracle, they manage to prevent her, Rand has other channelers to link with, and they know it. There's no point trying to stop Rand by stopping Nynaeve.

 

c) Rand links with Nynaeve and another channeler- the circle is interrupted. Both female channelers are exhausted after using so much of the power, so Rand has to link with another two. OR Nynaeve Heals Rand from death, somehow, which I know is a theory.

 

d) Death or stilling. Unless one of these happens when she's linked to Rand, or trying to return him to life, I don't really see this happening. But I could be wrong.

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Nynaeve is definitely not pregnant. She sent Lan to the Borderlands three months before the end of ToM, no way a former Wisdom and a top Healer wouldn't have noticed she's pregnant by now and there are no indications of that in her PoV. And she's channelling without any problems, while Elayne had major troubles even touching the True Source as early as month and a half into her pregnancy.

 

Besides, it would just be too much if two of the three female characters are mostly unable to participate directly in the battles in the last volume due to a pregnancy. Nynaeve is the main action figure among the Supergirls, the other two are mostly political leaders by now. So Nynaeve has to be able to kick butt in the Last Battle.

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I think the circle will end up being Narishma, Nynaeve and Alivia. Together they will kill Rand while he has the Dark One in him using Callandor.

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