To truly seal the bore

[tristin_kai]

How do you seal the bore perfectly to make it so that the DO can no longer touch the world? we know that you have to "clear away the Debris", but what to do after how to seal it for the ages?

 

 

My Theory

 

what is the perfect way to seal the bore? make it so that someone that has use of the power can no longer reach it. place an area that the power can not even be felt or used around it. my thought and you can flame me if you want to is that to seal the DO's prison so that the DO can no longer touch the world is to make a stedding over it no one knows how steddings are made. could these be other correct sealings of the bore?

 

Flame Away......

[Gentled Ben]

Well, we know from RJ's interviews that Rand's world is our world in a different Age, and we can't channel, so clearly, there will be at least one Age in which the Source is shut away from us. I don't know if you're on to something with your stedding idea or not, but maybe you're not too far off track. Perhaps it involves more than just the DO's prison though. Maybe it involves the whole Pattern and the True Source.

[Dark Justice]

Well' date=' we know from RJ's interviews that Rand's world is our world in a different Age, and we can't channel, so clearly, there will be at least one Age in which the Source is shut away from us. I don't know if you're on to something with your stedding idea or not, but maybe you're not too far off track. Perhaps it involves more than just the DO's prison though. Maybe it involves the whole Pattern and the True Source.[/quote']

 

Speak for yourself.. I CAN CHANNEL! Muhahahahaaa

[Bob T Dwarf]

I like the idea. But, as you say, ( so far as we now know ), nobody knows how to make a Stedding.

[Jellybelly]

It would not work. The Bore is not confined to or located at one specific geographic point. Shayol Ghul is merely the place where it is most easily detectable.

[Intrepid_Hero]

It would not work. The Bore is not confined to or located at one specific geographic point. Shayol Ghul is merely the place where it is most easily detectable.

 

no the bore is at shayol guhl, the DO's prision is not at any specific place. It says it when Demandred visits Shayol Guhl, That it is not any closer to the DO prision than anywhere else in the world but it is the only place you can feel the DO presence

[Jellybelly]

I'll treat you to a Robert Jordan quote my friend.

 

 

In a way, this is like the Bore, which does not actually exist as Shayol Ghul. The Bore exists everywhere, but Shayol Ghul is the place where it can best be detected. Which is not to say that there is any connection between the Bore and a shield. Both simply exist in different states simultaneously.)

 

It is from Tor's QotW.

[Arath Faringal]

Sort of an anti-climactic way to do it would be like this:

 

We all know that taveren have a warping effect (sort of) on the pattern. I've always imagined the bore as a hole in the pattern. Sooo . . . having 3 taveren at Shayol Ghul, the focal point of the bore so to speak, would have a sort of knitting effect. Then to make it a little better, the shock of Rand dying would send backlashes through the pattern, straightening everything out.

 

At least thats what I think . . .

[RobertAlexWillis]

This is my theory ... I've talked about it elswhere but I'll try to summarize it here.

 

The Bore is described as a "thinness" in the Pattern. I think of it as a wound. When the Bore was "drilled", the Pattern was wounded in such a way that the Dark One was able to put a "finger" through, figuratively speaking. The D.O. immediately began working to widen the wound, and spread his influence. When the wound becomes large enough and unblocked, the D.O. will be able to break through completely.

 

Now, what Lews Therin did with the Seal was put a band-aid over the wound, but he did not heal it. He could not, because the Dark One still had his "finger" in it. The Seal just went over it all.

 

In order to allow the Pattern to heal over the Bore, the Dark One's "finger" has to be removed. And the Pattern has to heal to its original state, not just be patched, so that when the Ages turn it is back in it's original form when the Age of Legends comes around again. I think that in order to reseal the Prison and heal the Bore, Rand will have to use the Power to push Shai'tan's influence out of the Bore, and hold him in the Prison. This would be a trip Rand could not take with his body (the Prison isn't material) and so he would die in doing so.

 

The Pattern consists of the Material Universe, but the threads which hold it together are the self aware, cognizant threads, mainly humans. In order to heal itself, the Pattern has spun out not only Rand, but two other strong ta'veren, to pull the right threads together so that when the D.O.'s influence is removed, the Pattern can quickly heal itself.

 

It is my opinion that Alivia will "help Rand die" by giving the "push" he needs to pass into the Dark One's prison, sort of pushing the Dark One ahead of him.

[Gentled Ben]

I like that theory, Robert, and what you said about the DO's finger being in the way makes a lot of sense.

[tristin_kai]

I see your point about the bore being in the whole pattern and that is validated by rj.

 

but if shayol ghul is the physical manafestation of the bore, then who is to say that that a stedding couldn't be a physical manafestation of a sealing of a bore?

[Wolfwalker]

I also like your theory Robert, and I think the three ta'veren will be necessary for the patteren to mend itself like Arath said. We know that Perrin and Mat have to be with Rand at TG in order for him to win- that would be one good reason why he'd fail without them.

 

I have always thought though that there will be female channelers helping Rand with resealing the Bore though. The greatest things in the AoL were done with male and female Aes Sedai working together.

I always thought that was one flaw in the seals from the start- they were made only with saidin.

Not that Rand will necessarily make another seal like LTT.

[Dark Justice]

I also like your theory Robert' date=' and I think the three ta'veren will be necessary for the patteren to mend itself like Arath said. We know that Perrin and Mat have to be with Rand at TG in order for him to win- that would be one good reason why he'd fail without them.

 

I have always thought though that there will be female channelers helping Rand with resealing the Bore though. The greatest things in the AoL were done with male and female Aes Sedai working together.

I always thought that was one flaw in the seals from the start- they were made only with saidin.

Not that Rand will necessarily make another seal like LTT.[/quote']

 

The old seals were made with both male & female channelers. werent they?

[Gentled Ben]

The old seals were made with both male & female channelers. werent they?

No. The women who were strong enough in the power to have been helpful in sealing the Bore were opposed to it because of some inherent dangers in attempting to seal it. They were led in their opposition by an Aes Sedai named Latra Posae.

You can read about it in the guide.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The old seals were made with both male & female channelers. werent they?

 

I think that whatever restores the Pattern/Prison to its original state will be totally unlike the old seals, which, as we see, are subject to failure. I think channeling is just to keep the Dark One out of the way while the Pattern/Prison is repaired through other means (ta'veren).

[Osangar1282083176]

rand still has one of the choden kal and callendor. with the two most powerful sa'angreal ever to exist he and a very powerful female channeler (aliva) might be able to strike mt doom, and the bore, with a bar of balefire, so powerfulthat it would take it to a time before the age of legends, and before the bore ever exists. do you think this is what rj had in mind when he created balefire? to me it seems possible. also channeling that much of the one power using callendor(no buffers), in link with aliva, might be what kills rand. seems to me this would neatly solve the problem of how to seal the bore and how aliva will help rand die. what do you Think

[Jellybelly]

That is totally out of the question. What do you get when you remove the defining factor of the last three thousand plus years? A reality torn to shreds, that is what!

[Osangar1282083176]

but remember rand is supposed to break the world again or at least he will totaly re shape it. i think it is possible.

[RobertAlexWillis]

That seems very unlikely to me. First of all, the bore isn't material, or part of the Pattern. It is a hole or gap in the Pattern, detectable at Shayol Ghul because of a "thinness" in the Pattern there. You can't aim balefire at a gap or hole. And balefiring the Dark One is out of the question, as the amount needed would destroy the world, according to RJ ( http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=58 ). Re-shaping the world, and Breaking the World, are not the same as completely destroying it, which would be the likely result if he tried what you have suggested and somehow succeeded.

[Xeonicus]

yea... i think he'd probably tear a whole in reality if he did that and send everyone spirally into chaos... maybe everyone would suddenly turn into twinkies... who knows?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Go, go Gadget World Destruction!

[KaptainKaos]

"The Dark One bound by the Creator at the moment of Creation"...The Dark One's prison was originally created by the Creator therefore anything that is done to try and reseal the Bore into that prison no matter how lasting will fail eventually unless it is done by the Creator. Therefore, anything that is done by Rand or anyone without the direct aid of the Creator will not be sufficent to hold the Dark One from ever touching the world again. Even if the Creator does take hand and reseal the Bore, who is to say that another group of researchers won't drill another hole into it again in some future age. So, it seems there really is no way to truly seal the Bore making Ishamael's/Moridin's theories to seem correct the Dark One will always be a threat. So let all turn to the Shadow and use the True Power so we can have endless caverns of flame as our mouth and eyes!!! :twisted:

[Luckers]

Actually no, the bore was created by Mierin and Beidomon in the Age of Legends. The Dark Ones prison is completely outside the pattern, which was originally completely intact.

 

And aside from which, we have no evidence that the Creator is a force anymore. Imprisoning the Dark One could have weakened him to the point of innefectuality, or he could BE the Dark One, or he could simply not be interested.

[skalors3]

Maybe the creator is, in a way, part of the essence of the wheel. If you look at it from a liberal angle, the wheel itself is fighting the Dark One by weaving out specific people at specific times.

 

Unfortunately, it seems that the DO's finger in the wheel also gives him power of a sort over the direction the wheel weaves.

[KaptainKaos]

Duh I must have been messed up when I wrote that one, by Bore I meant the Dark One's prison I was just crazy. I am just basically saying that the prison was created by the Creator and that prison was compromised by Lanfear and Beidomon so now the only force that can completely fix the bore and reseal the Dark one in his prison completely again would be the Creator but even if the Creator were to take action which I agree there is no indication that he will but even if he did the prison could still be compromised again. So, the Bore can never truly be sealed unless of course the Creator is able to create a whole new prison that is completely sound against any intrusion but I'm not even sure if that would be possible. Anyway I edited my previous post so it makes sense to someone besides Crazy Mike now.