A Demandred thread.

[yoniy0]

Taking us back a bit, does anyone has ideas regarding how Demandred was supposed to keep an eye on Rand? Two Forsaken were mentioned, and one turned out to be pretending to be Dashiva. I don't accept the theory that Demandred was simply put in charge of Darkfriends close to Rand - that could be any one of them; indeed it would seem that Moridin might want to do it himself if it were merely a matter of briefing them from time to time. Lanfear could keep an eye on him when she lived because he wouldn't have chased her off, but none of the others could do what she did. Why, then?

[Sharaman]

Grew up in a military family. Have two uncles who ended up C-in-C and an elder brother made it to major-general.

Spent a lot of time in war-zones (Kashmir, Iran, Srilanka, Afghanistan), including shipping soldiers, helping them set up communications networks.

Interacted some with solders and officers from the following forces - India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, USSR, Iran, UK, Norway, US.

Read military history for fun and visited a lot of famous battlefields all over the place out of curiosity.

 

In my anecdotal experience, anybody who's been through a staff training course and has ambitions of command reads whatever military history he can get hold of, and spends a lot of time learning the thought processes of potential allies and opponents.

Why would Demandred not read Madoc Comadrin and why would he not praise him? He's not jealous of everyone, only of LTT, and it's a professional acknowledging another pro's insights.

 

I can see a sort of conversation where Talmanes meets Roedran.

Roedran says "Read any good books on war lately?"

Talmanes responds "Well, there's that thing by Comadrin that my boss keeps quoting from".

Roedran-Demandred finds it, reads it, likes it and says "Yeah, he knew his onions".

[Terez]

And, because he was so brilliant, he either actually memorized it or memorized enough quotes from it to give that impression (or is able to recall the context of any quotes Talmanes mentions). I mean...I am not incredibly brilliant, but I am able to memorize a complicated piece of music just as quickly as I can memorize a relatively simple one (the more I understand something, the easier it is to memorize something, so I have a much easier time memorizing Bach and Chopin than, say, Beethoven and Schumann). It seems like the kind of thing Demandred would be easily capable of it, but not so much Roedran.

 

He might have even known about it before Talmanes showed up. RJ probably meant it to be a parallel to The Art of War, so why shouldn't he read it? When you've got a good brain, it's hardly a task to read a book, especially when you need an excuse as to why you all of a sudden became a great general.

[Sharaman]

Memorising something is often a matter of focus and interest as well as innate talent. I can remember chess positions I've seen once. I've met people who can recall chunks of poetry they've read once. Good mathematicians recall long proofs with exactitude. Architects see a layout, etc.

 

Demandred has poured his apparently considerable intellect and talents into being a general.

Comadrin's book (as far as we can tell) is a set of aphorisms like Sun Tzu. He'd have thought about these situations anyway and there would be some instant resonance when he reads them clearly articulated by somebody else.

 

(Assuming Dem is Roedran of course! The other possibility is that Roedran is a fop with brains like, for example, Frederick the Great. He suddenly wakes up one day to his painfully vulnerable situation (like F the G) surrounded by powerful enemies, and decides he wants to be a good general.)

[ashan]

I actually believe Demandred holds Shara. I know its a stretch but really its the last place as readers we haven't been and Demandred himself says he holds the throne and is ready to go to war when speaking to Moridin. Add in the people that look like Aiel at the end of TToM it just seems the logical choice. I'm convinced that's where he is

[Tiinker]

And for the guy who said numbers matter more than anything, read the art of war, or watch the movie 300

 

lol.

 

I take it you've never heard of Thermopylae..

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

Last time ill point this out since it seems to be ignored. Demandred is egotistical and cocky, he believes that he is the best general living. He doesn't seem like the type who is going to sit and read a book when he feels like he knows everything about war. His personality hasn't been written to be open-minded enough for that. Even one of the other forsaken says that Demandred thinks he is all but the heir to the DO.

[Terez]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

[Grig]

I take it you've never heard of Thermopylae..

 

Why would you assume that? Because I scoff at 300? The movie and the comic it was based on were not meant to demonstrate historical accuracy (unless you consider the framing device of the unreliable narrator to parallel real-life propaganda about Thermopylae). Using them to discuss tactics and logistics is laughable, is all. It's like referring to Die Hard as a serious reference on the physics of explosions. You'll note that after the "lol" I was polite enough to respond further, so I don't know what you think you're gaining by replying to me in this manner.

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

 

At best though your logic is flimsy, IF Demandred is posing as rode, and IF he is open-minded (which he hasn't been shown to be at all), then he had to read a book on war?

[Terez]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

 

At best though your logic is flimsy

Again, this is just your opinion. Hardly anyone agrees with you.

[Durinax]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

 

At best though your logic is flimsy, IF Demandred is posing as rode, and IF he is open-minded (which he hasn't been shown to be at all), then he had to read a book on war?

first off, even if your the best you read the manuals of war if you are dropped into a different time/ different land just to be sure and prepared

 

plus he has been humiliated by ltt before and would want to prepare himself the best possible to prevent such things from happening again

[Finnssss22]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

 

At best though your logic is flimsy, IF Demandred is posing as rode, and IF he is open-minded (which he hasn't been shown to be at all), then he had to read a book on war?

 

Whether or not Demy read it or not is kind of a minor point to get hung up about imo.

 

I could see him looking it over, if for no other reason then to acquaint himself with the tactics and more importantly the resources that are available to go against him in this age.

His personality aside, he is still a highly accredited General from the AoL and that no doubt means he knows the importance and absolute value of information.

 

I only get pissy when it gets ridiculously stretched into him either writing the book or having a major part in its' writing.

 

Until I am told by BS and co that Demy had a hand in writing Fog and Steel in any way, I will unequivocally state and argue he didn't, as there is absolutely no proof or even the slightest hint what so ever that he did.

Anyone arguing otherwise is dealing in 100% conjecture imo.

 

[Feral]

Loony theory alert:

 

Was rereading CoS and something struck me as a bit...odd. Lews Therin was being his usual rambling self and he was going on about killing Demandred before Sammael. I thought this was a funny thing to say, and knowing RJ's tendency for foreshadowing I thought maybe it couldn't just be dismissed as mad rambling. What if Demandred died somehow before Rand killed Sammael? What if there is an imposter pretending to be him? RJ stated that Demandred isn't posing as Taim, but maybe that was an Aes Sedai answer? Maybe Taim is posing Demandred?

 

Can't say I believe it myself, but that sentence did seem strange... Or maybe I just read it wrong, which has happened before lol.

[mb]

Last time ill point this out since it seems to be ignored. Demandred is egotistical and cocky, he believes that he is the best general living. He doesn't seem like the type who is going to sit and read a book when he feels like he knows everything about war. His personality hasn't been written to be open-minded enough for that. Even one of the other forsaken says that Demandred thinks he is all but the heir to the DO.

Demandred might have read the books before becoming a general (or even before joining military).

Perhaps during his school years.

 

Loony theory alert:

 

Was rereading CoS and something struck me as a bit...odd. Lews Therin was being his usual rambling self and he was going on about killing Demandred before Sammael. I thought this was a funny thing to say, and knowing RJ's tendency for foreshadowing I thought maybe it couldn't just be dismissed as mad rambling. What if Demandred died somehow before Rand killed Sammael? What if there is an imposter pretending to be him? RJ stated that Demandred isn't posing as Taim, but maybe that was an Aes Sedai answer? Maybe Taim is posing Demandred?

 

Can't say I believe it myself, but that sentence did seem strange... Or maybe I just read it wrong, which has happened before lol.

Robert Jordan told that Demandred's alter ego was not on screen up through Crossroads of Twilight.

Sanderson confirmed telling up through Knife of Dreams.

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

 

At best though your logic is flimsy

Again, this is just your opinion. Hardly anyone agrees with you.

 

Thank God I base nothing in my life on whether you agree with me or not. Just pointing out the fairly obvious flaws in your straw hut darling.

 

Just because most people would read a book given Demandred's situation, doesn't mean he has. Of course it would make sense to read it, but if the forsaken have shown us anything it is that they are over-confident. They don't play by the same common sense that everyone else does because they think they are above everyone. Show me one example where Demandred has been open-minded about learning anything and I could maybe see your point. I can point out at least 3 examples where he is shown to be extremely prideful and cocky. Given the simplest answer is...it is more likely based solely on what we have seen of his personality that he would scoff at the idea of anyone knowing war better than him.

[Feral]

Loony theory alert:

 

Was rereading CoS and something struck me as a bit...odd. Lews Therin was being his usual rambling self and he was going on about killing Demandred before Sammael. I thought this was a funny thing to say, and knowing RJ's tendency for foreshadowing I thought maybe it couldn't just be dismissed as mad rambling. What if Demandred died somehow before Rand killed Sammael? What if there is an imposter pretending to be him? RJ stated that Demandred isn't posing as Taim, but maybe that was an Aes Sedai answer? Maybe Taim is posing Demandred?

 

Can't say I believe it myself, but that sentence did seem strange... Or maybe I just read it wrong, which has happened before lol.

Robert Jordan told that Demandred's alter ego was not on screen up through Crossroads of Twilight.

Sanderson confirmed telling up through Knife of Dreams.

 

Oh yeah forgot about that. I guess it was just random rambling then, but it seems an odd thing to include if it has no point.

[Bluedust9]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

 

At best though your logic is flimsy

Again, this is just your opinion. Hardly anyone agrees with you.

 

Thank God I base nothing in my life on whether you agree with me or not. Just pointing out the fairly obvious flaws in your straw hut darling.

 

Just because most people would read a book given Demandred's situation, doesn't mean he has. Of course it would make sense to read it, but if the forsaken have shown us anything it is that they are over-confident. They don't play by the same common sense that everyone else does because they think they are above everyone. Show me one example where Demandred has been open-minded about learning anything and I could maybe see your point. I can point out at least 3 examples where he is shown to be extremely prideful and cocky. Given the simplest answer is...it is more likely based solely on what we have seen of his personality that he would scoff at the idea of anyone knowing war better than him.

 

Please post these examples chief, thanks in advance.

[Terez]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

 

At best though your logic is flimsy

Again, this is just your opinion. Hardly anyone agrees with you.

 

Thank God I base nothing in my life on whether you agree with me or not. Just pointing out the fairly obvious flaws in your straw hut darling.

No, you're just trolling at this point. Because again, no one cares about your idea of what's flawed and what isn't. I never made anything less than a perfect score on a logic exam - how about you?

[Mr Ares]

Given the simplest answer is...it is more likely based solely on what we have seen of his personality that he would scoff at the idea of anyone knowing war better than him.

You don't have to think someone knows better than you to be interested in what they have to say. He might read it just to scoff at the primitive "wisdom" of the backward Third Agers.

[Zentari]

Given the simplest answer is...it is more likely based solely on what we have seen of his personality that he would scoff at the idea of anyone knowing war better than him.

You don't have to think someone knows better than you to be interested in what they have to say. He might read it just to scoff at the primitive "wisdom" of the backward Third Agers.

^These are my thoughts as well.He can dismiss things due to his megalomania but he doesn't come across as someone who would ignore things.

[yoniy0]

Agreed. Reading your adversaries' literature isn't necessarily about learning something new, it's about the first rule of war - know your opponent. Something Demandred would be remiss not to do, and he damn well knows it.

 

<mod hat on>Also, let's not stoop to personal lines</off>.

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

I don't know why you think it's worth repeating so much. It's just your opinion, and far from ignoring it, we've countered it several times with our own logic. You disagree. We get it.

 

At best though your logic is flimsy

Again, this is just your opinion. Hardly anyone agrees with you.

 

Thank God I base nothing in my life on whether you agree with me or not. Just pointing out the fairly obvious flaws in your straw hut darling.

No, you're just trolling at this point. Because again, no one cares about your idea of what's flawed and what isn't. I never made anything less than a perfect score on a logic exam - how about you?

 

Blatantly obvious that you care or you wouldn't feel the need to point out how logical or perfect you are. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about test scores, and I feel sorry for you that you need vindication of your own self-worth from a forum about fantasy novels. I just find it hard to believe that Demandred(who may or may not be Rode) had to read a book about war because he is posing as someone. I'll be happy to admit I am wrong if it is so, but based on his personality I just don't see it.

[yoniy0]

I just find it hard to believe that Demandred(who may or may not be Rode) had to read a book about war because he is posing as someone. I'll be happy to admit I am wrong if it is so, but based on his personality I just don't see it.

You just completely disregarded the three posts that came before your own. That's fine, of course, but as they relate directly to the point you're making, it is a shame.

 

On a different note, that was the last personal remark I'll suffer in this thread. There, now I've told you twice.

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

That's a big negative sir. I didn't ignore them, I just haven't seen any evidence to support Demandred reading this book. Again because it makes sense to read it, it doesn't mean he has. I'll search for Demandred quotes at some point this week.