What if Moiraine had been in all the books...

[liatildina]

Okay, first topic post so if this is an old thread I apologize, how would Rand's progression to being the Dragon Reborn have been if Moiraine had not died. Would he have had an easier time with all this if she had been his mentor or would it have been more difficult for him to mature with Moiraine always there for him to defer to?

 

Does Cadsuane become the mentor she is because there is a vacuum left with the absence of Moiraine? I know, who decided she is his mentor, I think of her that way.

 

I am reading Eye again and I guess I've forgotten how much I like Moiraine and I just keep going to what could have been different for Rand if she had been around...

[Shinobi]

Moiraine had to die i think. She got Rand mad and didnt let him get past his fear of being controlled by the white tower. Also lan and nynevea had to become married .

[Mystica]

Cadsuane doesn't fill the void Moiraine left, I believe. As the two women are completely different, they each filled in a void that was already present within Rand's life (as the Dragon Reborn).

 

What would have been interesting though, would be to see how the two would interact with each other had Moiraine been around. I think that would have sparked some fires most living (and dead) would not want to be near to. ;)

 

For the record, both Moiraine and Cadsuane are my two favorite Aes Sedai. Each in her own way and for different reasons.

 

The combination of Moiraine and Cadsuane would provide Rand with the two most important things for him.

Moiraine's determination to teach him all he needs to know to win the last battle.

Cadsuane's determination to see him survive it and remain human.

[liatildina]

I think we will get a chance to see Cadsuane and Moiraine in action together. Different women no doubt, but I think they have the same goal with Rand - get him to TG and hopefully beyond.

[Oregon]

Spoiler Alert!!Of course, in New Spring, hints are given that Moiraine doesn't fully trust Cadsuane. She even suspects her of being Black Ajah, as I recall. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I don't seem to remember anything in KoDs that dissuaded that notion. Could she be a false guide for Rand that Moiraine has to tackle following her rescue?

[Guest Majsju]

Of course, in New Spring, hints are given that Moiraine doesn't fully trust Cadsuane. She even suspects her of being Black Ajah, as I recall. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I don't seem to remember anything in KoDs that dissuaded that notion. Could she be a false guide for Rand that Moiraine has to tackle following her rescue?

 

That was 20 years ago, Moiraine just raised and believing she and Siuan might be hunted by the BA. She suspected anyone acting out of norm. And Moiraine had been imprinted with how an Aes Sedai behaves, Cadsuane just happens to not care about things as proper behaviour. Well, actually she does care a lot about proper behaviour, she just doesn't agree with the Towers definition of proper.

 

Cadsuane is not BA, she is very much on Rand's side. I'd go so far to say she is one of the most loyal people he has around him, as she will not let anything get in the way of seeing that Rand reaches TG, as prepared as he possibly can be.

 

But it might take Moiraine a moment or so to accept that, which bodes well for some amusing reading.

[Oregon]

Fair point. I'm beginning to remember things a bit more clearly, and thinking that Cadsuane sure seemed honorable when push came to shove.

 

I think you're right though...the Cadsuane/Moiraine dynamic bears watching. Actually, the whole Moiraine subplot that is promised in a Memory of Light is my most anticipated sidestory by far...so it should be interesting.

[sarah2482]

Does anyone truly believe that moiraine died?! I dont.

[Jellybelly]

I do not think anyone who has read KoD can have even a sliver of a doubt about the fact that she did not die.

[liatildina]

Moiraine's death , and now we know not dying which I am very happy about, was needed because Rand had to learn on his own and not defer to anyone. Now he has Cads as a mentor, but when Moiraine returns will she stay with him until TG or join Lan?

[Mystica]

*slaps JellyBelly around with a fluffy pillow*

 

way to go spoiling people's fun in revealing what they haven't read yet :p

[liatildina]

oops, well anyway it will be a good read when Moiraine shows up again.

[vixen]

Hmmm...moiraine,i miss her!!! :D

She's is one of my favourite characters in Wheel of Time books.

[Kara_J]

I'm pretty certain that Moraine is not dead. She went through the doorway with Lanfear, so do you think that Cyndane is an amalgam of Lanfear and Moraine? It'd explain Cyndanes knowledge of Lews Therin/Rand al Thor (from Lanfear) and her difference in strength to Lanfear's strength. Besides Min had a viewing that Moraine had to be there at the Last Battle and it was her only viewing that went awry.

[SinisterDeath]

I knew from the beggining moiraine didn't die. She just got stuck in the doorframeworldplacewiththefoxes.

Moiraine and Lanfear are not combined into one being called Cyndane... Didn't RJ debunk that to?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Moiraine and Lanfear are not combined into one being called Cyndane... Didn't RJ debunk that to?

 

If RJ didn't in some blog statement or interview, he sure did in the books. Cyndane's POV and Moiraine's letter to Thom completely obliterate that theory. Apologies to Randomchick, but survey says:

 

Nope.

[Jellybelly]

slaps JellyBelly around with a fluffy pillow*

 

way to go spoiling people's fun in revealing what they haven't read yet :p

 

Well, if you come moping around these boards a year after the book was released and expect not to be spoiled... Well, you take your chances. :P

[WarkWark]

So basically Mat, Thom, and a third party member are going to the tower of Genji on the river near Whitebridge, and are going to etch the seal with an iron knife on the side of the building to enter into the world of the aelfinn, where they will rescue Moiraine? I mean I know that is what things are looking like, but lets be logical here, she has been trapped in this tower for over a year now, with no food, no water, and those fox(or snake) people inside bothering her the entire time. I just don't see the point of bringing Moiraine back at this time in the book, her use was done with when she died, and it was an honorable death, it made her character that much better. If you are saying she made a deal with the snakey things to stay alive, then couldn't she have just made a bargain to leave the tower instead? It just doesn't add up and seems like it will be a three-four chapter ordeal in a final book that already will be bursting to the seems with plotline ending.

[RobertAlexWillis]

So basically Mat, Thom, and a third party member are going to the tower of Genji on the river near Whitebridge, and are going to etch the seal with an iron knife on the side of the building to enter into the world of the aelfinn, where they will rescue Moiraine? I mean I know that is what things are looking like, but lets be logical here, she has been trapped in this tower for over a year now, with no food, no water, and those fox(or snake) people inside bothering her the entire time. I just don't see the point of bringing Moiraine back at this time in the book, her use was done with when she died, and it was an honorable death, it made her character that much better. If you are saying she made a deal with the snakey things to stay alive, then couldn't she have just made a bargain to leave the tower instead? It just doesn't add up and seems like it will be a three-four chapter ordeal in a final book that already will be bursting to the seems with plotline ending.

 

Prepare to be surprised when they do just that. And, in the interest of being picky, its a bronze knife, not an iron one.

[WarkWark]

Hmm been awhile since I read that particular book, I am re-reading the series and am thinking about the part when Olver does the ceremonious verse before a game of Fox and Hounds, the wavy line through the triangle, and he said "Iron to bind" I believe. Anyways, it is copper now that I remember correctly. But I still don't have to like that this is all going to happen.

[RobertAlexWillis]

But I still don't have to like that this is all going to happen.

 

Nope. You can even not like it while it is happening.

[Kara_J]

lol! I have read KoD but a while ago, am rereading the series and am currently on book 10. :D

I completely forgot about thom and mat going to the tower to rescue moraine, duh! :oops:

Guess i should have finished the series before i posted!

[Jellybelly]

I just don't see the point of bringing Moiraine back at this time in the book, her use was done with when she died, and it was an honorable death, it made her character that much better.

 

I am glad you are not writing the books, then. There is obviously a very important reason for bringing Moiraine back, otherwise he would not be doing it.

[Luckers]

Firstly, she is not trapped inside the tower, she is trapped inside another dimension, the tower is merely a way to get there. secondly i find it extremely unlikely given Cyndanes thoughts that she made a deal with the finns for survival, far more likely is that she is being held prisoner. Thirdly, Min has stated that Moiraine is still needed for the Light to win.

[Alia]

Lanfear I believe only stated (as Cyndae) that her level of power had decreased greatly while being held by the Aelfinn and the Elfinn. Since Min said Moiraine HAD to have some other destiny, it would make sense that she hadnt died. Also, if she comes back and is greatly weakened, then it works for her and Thom being together.

As for her not being brought back as she had an honorable death, etc, it would fit the pattern- everything comes full circle. Besides, the Aelfinn, etc, HAS to be brought in and dealt with somehow- they had the instructions from the game the entire time as to how to deal with them. Also- do you think the Dark One would leave them alone? And the Forsaken? I think that its enough that we do see what happens as I think that a final piece of the puzzle will be there.