Let The Lord If Chaos Rule

[Mighty Chin]

At the very end of KOD Pevara and Tarna have an audience with Taim and his Ashaman. Taim agrees to let them bond his men as Warders. He then says "Let the Lord Of Chaos Rule" the room erupts in laughter that sends chills through Pevara.

 

Nothing came if this in TGS and then in TOM Pevara and Javindra are walking and talking with Taim discussing that they want to bond full ashaman. Taim refuses and P and J go on their own.

 

I'm not a genius but I think that even I could determine that Taim is evil and that The Lord of Chaos is The Dark One. Even if you had never heard that term before I don't think that it's that big of a leap and put two and two together and figure out Taim is a darkfriend.

 

Come on you are Aes Sedai in a room full of maniacally laughing Ashaman and you aren't trying to get your ass out of there at the first opportunity!

[Puny]

Come on you are Aes Sedai in a room full of maniacally laughing Ashaman and you aren't trying to get your ass out of there at the first opportunity!

 

Lol... I would run from the room. Speaking of LoC (lord of chaos) sure it can be a reference to the Dark One by I always pictured it as a nickname for DarkRand. I think one of the forsaken (if it was Ishy or someone, can´t remember) that said let the LoC rule. I think that was in reference to Rand. That they should let the Dragon loose and let him run wildly and cause havoc in the land cause any chaos benefits the Dark One.

 

Dk what to say about ToM cause I haven´t read it..

[Finnssss22]

Come on you are Aes Sedai in a room full of maniacally laughing Ashaman and you aren't trying to get your ass out of there at the first opportunity!

 

Lol... I would run from the room. Speaking of LoC (lord of chaos) sure it can be a reference to the Dark One by I always pictured it as a nickname for DarkRand. I think one of the forsaken (if it was Ishy or someone, can´t remember) that said let the LoC rule. I think that was in reference to Rand. That they should let the Dragon loose and let him run wildly and cause havoc in the land cause any chaos benefits the Dark One.

 

Dk what to say about ToM cause I haven´t read it..

 

It was Demandred actually and he was told it directly from the DO himself.

 

As far as being "in a room full of maniacally laughing Ashaman"...are you actually surprised by most Aes Sedai's extreme level of arrogance by that point?

[Goramier]

"Let the Lord of Chaos rule" is about Rand. Think about all the bad that happened. He was doing more bad by just being around. Had they locked him up for example, the good guys might have rallied togather...well its Randland so prolly not but I think the idea behind it was that by just letting Rand do his thing, the world was falling apart. The darkside got to build armies, plan and scheme while Rand was watching everything be destroyed. Randland seems to be almost devoid of people who decide to group up and fight the last battle under Rand...seems everyone has their own methods and let the rest of the world be damned. The White Tower, the Seanchan, the Whitecloaks, the Ashaman, all the lands that fell into chaos and had no leader, the people starving, no food, bad weather, people in high places plotting against Rand for positions...by just letting Rand be, there was more damage then the shadow could've done on their own and it was eating away at Rand the entire time. I think the DO was hoping Rand was going to just cave in from his insanity from it all.

[Hyronimus]

Goramier, i would go further and say that the dark one intented to use Rand's Ta'varen (sp?) and general dragon/pattern bending nature to loosen the pattern. Symbolically i've always considered the dragon to be the great serpent in it's 'unleashed' aspect.

 

For the dark one, rand as the lord of chaos is a powerful weapon against the pattern because he has so much power to force his own will (which is suppose to serve the pattern)upon the world around him.

 

As a pattern creation, the dragon is a bit of a catch twenty two. This double edged sword nature is refered to by moridin when playing that board game "the fisher changed side many times". and even in the fact that the pattern had a failsafe in the borderlanders.(quotes needed?)

 

but to address that other part of the topic, aes sadai, and reds especially, still expect (and how many are even aware of the cleansing?) the men to be unstable maniacs who need to be bonded till they are put down after the last battle.

 

At no point do we see the women lower their guard or show signs of excepting the men as equal channallers, that is untill the final scene where we can guess pevara will bond androl and except a kind of equality considering their common need to escape the black tower.

 

the last is all my guess work, but i think laughing, arrogent, nastiness is simply the aes sadai's worst fears.

 

Rather then their disicion to stay being arrogance, i'd call it them feeling like they have to face up to their duty, stated i believe in the conversation between tarna and pevara when they made the initial dicision in the tower(page needed?), controlling these crazy men.

[b9anders]

I can think of a number of motivations before jumping to the conclusion 'they must all be darkfriends'.

 

I would imagine the most obvious is that these people being Ashaman, like Aes Sedai, are rather prideful. They probably take pride in being cryptic and hard to figure out in the face of others. If they have an in-joke at the tower (which they have. the Aes Sedai just don't know it's the Dark One's joke), it would be doubly hilarious to throw it in the face of Aes Sedai without explaining it.

 

And then there is the fact that they are all male channelers. A bit of madness is to be expected.

 

All more obvious interpretations than them laughing at an obscure joke = darkfriends.

[Mr Ares]

I think one of the forsaken (if it was Ishy or someone, can´t remember) that said let the LoC rule. I think that was in reference to Rand. That they should let the Dragon loose and let him run wildly and cause havoc in the land cause any chaos benefits the Dark One.

While letting Rand run loose might be part of the plans, it appears that the Lord of Chaos is not a certain person, rather it is a standing order to spread as much chaos as possible. Graendal thinks on it at one point (PoD, I believe), reflecting that small increases in chaos were to be desired as much as larger ones. This is in relation to her own actions.

 

As for the topic of the thread, many readers took Taim's line at the end of KoD to be the final confirmation that he was a Darkfriend. However, this was not universally accepted, and it was argued that "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" was, in fact, proof of the reverse, that Taim is not a Darkfriend. The reasoning for this comes from the festival known as the Feast of Fools. On this day, one lets the Lord/King/Queen/etc. of Misrule/Fools/Chaos/etc. rule (this is not a sought after honour). Lord of Chaos could be a phrased used where Taim is from, but not one Pevara is familiar with, hence her confusion. That is from readers with far more evidence of Taim's dubious character than Pevara has at that point. For Pevara, it might well be creepy, but what reason does she have to see it as anything other than some sort of Asha'man private joke? Imagine trying to explain the failure of your mission after that. "He said something odd, then they all started laughing, so I came home." Pevara really has no reason to leave, or think Taim is a Darkfriend, not at that point.

[UGAShadow]

"Let the Lord of Chaos rule" is about Rand. Think about all the bad that happened. He was doing more bad by just being around. Had they locked him up for example, the good guys might have rallied togather...well its Randland so prolly not but I think the idea behind it was that by just letting Rand do his thing, the world was falling apart. The darkside got to build armies, plan and scheme while Rand was watching everything be destroyed. Randland seems to be almost devoid of people who decide to group up and fight the last battle under Rand...seems everyone has their own methods and let the rest of the world be damned. The White Tower, the Seanchan, the Whitecloaks, the Ashaman, all the lands that fell into chaos and had no leader, the people starving, no food, bad weather, people in high places plotting against Rand for positions...by just letting Rand be, there was more damage then the shadow could've done on their own and it was eating away at Rand the entire time. I think the DO was hoping Rand was going to just cave in from his insanity from it all.

 

 

If Rand had been locked up the world would be in a much worse place. Either he would still be a raving madman or he would be an Aes Sedai dog. Either would be bad for the Last Battle. He surely wouldn't be the Rand/Lews Therin hybrid he is now. Not the Jesus figure. The Borderlanders made it clear that without that he would be just as much a threat as the Dark One.

 

The Dragon being loosed on the World was also the only way prophecy would be fulfilled and without him to counter the Seanchan they would probably own every country by now and be sieging Tar Valon. The Shadow would have found a Randland that was either embroiled in war or recovering from being conquered.

[Mighty Chin]

Ive been reading this series from the beginning and I never once thought Rand = The Lord of Chaos.

[Skeeve the Great]

While letting Rand run loose might be part of the plans, it appears that the Lord of Chaos is not a certain person, rather it is a standing order to spread as much chaos as possible. Graendal thinks on it at one point (PoD, I believe), reflecting that small increases in chaos were to be desired as much as larger ones. This is in relation to her own actions.

 

This.

[yoniy0]

Why can't it be both?

[Southpaw89]

haha I don't blame the Aes Sedai for not running from the room. Would you want to turn your back and run from Taim?

[The Fisher King]

I think one of the forsaken (if it was Ishy or someone, can´t remember) that said let the LoC rule. I think that was in reference to Rand. That they should let the Dragon loose and let him run wildly and cause havoc in the land cause any chaos benefits the Dark One.

While letting Rand run loose might be part of the plans, it appears that the Lord of Chaos is not a certain person, rather it is a standing order to spread as much chaos as possible. Graendal thinks on it at one point (PoD, I believe), reflecting that small increases in chaos were to be desired as much as larger ones. This is in relation to her own actions.

 

As for the topic of the thread, many readers took Taim's line at the end of KoD to be the final confirmation that he was a Darkfriend. However, this was not universally accepted, and it was argued that "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" was, in fact, proof of the reverse, that Taim is not a Darkfriend. The reasoning for this comes from the festival known as the Feast of Fools. On this day, one lets the Lord/King/Queen/etc. of Misrule/Fools/Chaos/etc. rule (this is not a sought after honour). Lord of Chaos could be a phrased used where Taim is from, but not one Pevara is familiar with, hence her confusion. That is from readers with far more evidence of Taim's dubious character than Pevara has at that point. For Pevara, it might well be creepy, but what reason does she have to see it as anything other than some sort of Asha'man private joke? Imagine trying to explain the failure of your mission after that. "He said something odd, then they all started laughing, so I came home." Pevara really has no reason to leave, or think Taim is a Darkfriend, not at that point.

 

 

Sammael (after masquerading as ''Caddar'' and basically setting Sevanna's contigent off to chase their own tail) shares this pearl of wisdom with Graendal in ACOS ... 'The Watcher' (Moridin) silently agrees with this as he eavesdrops. ;-)

 

 

- Fish

[Mr Ares]

Sammael (after masquerading as ''Caddar'' and basically setting Sevanna's contigent off to chase their own tail) shares this pearl of wisdom with Graendal in ACOS ... 'The Watcher' (Moridin) silently agrees with this as he eavesdrops. ;-)

True, but I was actually conflating two incidents - Graendal reflects on the Great Lord's orders to increase chaos in PoD 12. In relation to her own actions, as I said.

[MatrixM]

Just thought i'd throw this quotation into the mix:

 

"Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty." ~ Herid Fel

[Terez]

Austin Moore on Twitter - 6 January 2011

 

Who was the Lord of Chaos that Demandred and Taim both mention? There has been tons of debate.

 

Brandon

 

Really? I thought that one was obvious. What's the debate about?

 

Terez

 

It's Rand. Look in the BWB re: Feast of Fools.

 

Austin

 

Why was Demandred and Taim saying, "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" if it was Rand? Sorry just read through series once so far :(

 

Terez

 

Here's a quote for you:

 

The Feast of Fools

Celebrated in Tammaz (in Arad Doman and the Borderlands) or Saven (everywhere else), the exact day varying according to locality. A day in which all order is deliberately inverted; the high perform lowly tasks (running errands, serving at table, etc.) while the low do no work and give orders to their usual superiors. In many villages and towns the most foolish person is given a title such as the Lord/Lady of Unreason/Misrule/Chaos or the King/Queen of Fools. Not an honor sought, but for that one day everyone has to obey whatever orders, however foolish, are given by the chosen one. (Called the Festival of Unreason in Saldaea; the Festival of Fools in Kandor; Foolday in Baerlon and the Two Rivers.)

 

Matt Hatch

 

I've always enjoyed this theory about the Lord of Chaos. It's fun. http://bit.ly/fghYSz

 

Brandon

 

That is a good theory for people to be reading.

 

 

[Tiinker]

I don't get it. Is that a confirmation?

[OptimusPrime]

I dont buy that the Lord of Chaos is a person at all, I think that is just chaos in general.

 

As to Demandred being a balefire addict and being responsible for the ripples, its entirely possible. That may be what Brandon was referring to, it may not. His comment was too vague to take much from; the best we can do is to assume there is something in that theory that holds.

 

Is that a satisfying result for Demandred fans? If I was one I would be dissapointed, after all Demandreds image waa never one of nihilism like Moridin, I always thought his thing would be some sort of uber organised military setup or something. If Demandred is just responsible for a bit of balefire action offscreen then I will be sticking to my opinion that he wont be worth the wait.

 

Unless he has a private mixed-gender circle that he tries to take Moridin down with.

[Terez]

I don't get it. Is that a confirmation?

Pretty much. It's not that there is no over-arching plan to create chaos - obviously there is. It's just that the phrase 'let the Lord of Chaos rule' has a specific origin in the Feast of Fools, so it's clear in the context that Rand is the intended Lord of Chaos. It fits with the no-kill order on Rand, and the general non-interference on the part of the Forsaken during that period. The order wasn't rescinded until it was discovered that Rand intended to cleanse saidin (and that he had the Choedan Kal, which the Shadow was for some reason apparently unaware of until Cyndane mentioned it around TPOD, around the same time Torval heard of Rand's plan). After the Cleansing, the order was back on again.