Stasis Box

[francy]

Okay, don't shoot me if you think I'm asking 'stupid' questions...

 

:-)

 

I would like to know - exactly how big are stasis boxes? Are there different types and sizes? And if you open a box and the thing inside isn't to your liking - or is dangerous, wouldn't you have time to shut the box before the thing or person is 'woken' from stasis? I know that (Aginor? Can't remember) was opening them willy nilly until another Forsaken (Sammael?) pointed out that he might open a box full of Worms...

 

So I guess my question is about how they work. I kind of likened it to being 'frozen' like Hans Solo, or like the passengers in their capsules on the ship at the beginning of Pitch Black or even Avatar. I imagined there would be a thawing out type process.

 

But being in stasis is different, of course, so now I think that maybe the act of opening the box causes the thing or person inside to instantly wake.

 

Now, maybe I have too much time on my hands - or maybe I just spend too much time in the WOT world, escaping from my children! But I have often flirted with the idea that a couple Aes Sedai back from the AOL might be found in stasis boxes. Or even a Chosen who decides to go into hiding... I know that something like this wouldn't be introduced to the story, especially this late in the game, but I just wondered. An Aes Sedai has a foretelling and decides to get a couple of her buddies together because she wants to be there to help at the last battle. So they get a couple stasis boxes together (if they have some availabe - were they readily availabe?) and pop themselves in leaving explicite instructions, instructions that were lost in the last three thousand years, to open them before TG... They might never be opened. Or maybe, 2000 years after TG some archeologists come along and find the boxes and "ooohh" and "aaahhh" over whats inside... Unless they are Seanchan, then the Aes Sedai inside would be collared.

 

Wouldn't that suck?

 

:-)

[herid]

I don't think much of this can be definitively answered given what we know from the books. stasis boxes seem to stop time inside them given how the gholam describes its experience inside a stasis box. I don't think they can be opened from inside though given that apparently zero time passed for the gholam while it was in the box. I also kind of doubt those boxes are room sized. a gholam due to its special abilities can fit inside a reasonably small box but I don't know if the same would work for a regular person.

 

A vacuole might be better suited for what you have in mind. Moggy was kept in one for a few days after she was mindtrapped. and that vacuole was at least room sized. also, Moggy mentioned that time sometimes passes differently in a vacuole (although it doesn't stop like in a stasis box) and a day inside a vacuole can be equal to a thousand years outside. She also mentioned that this might be just the kind of thing that the DO might do to somebody. So far we haven't seen vacuole used for anything interesting. It's been Chekhov's gun that hasn't fired yet. I don't know if it will though. we'll see.

[mb]

This page has a small amount of info:: http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/stasis_box.html

 

I recall a version 7 thread asking about the size.

zomara I take are able to fit inside.

[francy]

I don't think much of this can be definitively answered given what we know from the books. stasis boxes seem to stop time inside them given how the gholam describes its experience inside a stasis box. I don't think they can be opened from inside though given that apparently zero time passed for the gholam while it was in the box. I also kind of doubt those boxes are room sized. a gholam due to its special abilities can fit inside a reasonably small box but I don't know if the same would work for a regular person.

 

A vacuole might be better suited for what you have in mind. Moggy was kept in one for a few days after she was mindtrapped. and that vacuole was at least room sized. also, Moggy mentioned that time sometimes passes differently in a vacuole (although it doesn't stop like in a stasis box) and a day inside a vacuole can be equal to a thousand years outside. She also mentioned that this might be just the kind of thing that the DO might do to somebody. So far we haven't seen vacuole used for anything interesting. It's been Chekhov's gun that hasn't fired yet. I don't know if it will though. we'll see.

 

Cool, thanks for your response. So you don't think that a stasis box would be large enough to fit a person? I suppose an Aes Sedai wouldn't have wanted to put herself into one, risking that she might never be released, even if they are big enough. Was just a thought...

 

:-)

 

Yes, a vacuole would definitely fit the bill, but of course thats all in the DO's control, used for his own purposes... So unless an Aes Sedai was captured years ago, put into a vacuole, then released - bah!

 

This idea really isn't going to go any where, is it??

 

LOL

[francy]

This page has a small amount of info:: http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/stasis_box.html

 

I recall a version 7 thread asking about the size.

zomara I take are able to fit inside.

 

cool - I'll check out the link, thanks for that!

[herid]

 

 

Cool, thanks for your response. So you don't think that a stasis box would be large enough to fit a person?

 

actually, mb's link shows that I was wrong. if a stasis box can fit dozens of zomara it's certaibly more than big enough to accommodate a couple of people.

I suppose an Aes Sedai wouldn't have wanted to put herself into one, risking that she might never be released, even if they are big enough. Was just a thought...

 

exactly, that's why I don't see any Aes Sedai locking herself inside a stasis box willingly. How would she get out? but I can certainly see the DO doing it to one of his followers. either a stasis box or a vacuole would work for that.

[LemonPastie]

From what I remember, vacuole can detach from the pattern at any stage. Which is the risk in using them. Would they last for 3000+years?

[alligator]

Now, I know this is pretty silly, and I haven't really put that much thought into it, BUUUUT I always thought of stasis boxes as being basically infinite in size. or at least really large, but in a really small box - like physically just a foot across, but with infinite storage room.

 

Sort of a la Hermione's purse in the latest Harry Potter movie ;)

[yoniy0]

Sort of a la Hermione's purse in the latest Harry Potter movie ;)

I was thinking along the same lines (oh, not regarding stasis boxes, just reading your post), until I got to the end of your comment. Why the movie? It's a recurring theme in Rowling's series, the whole 'looks small, lots of room inside' thing.

 

I always pictured them like treasure boxes from pirate movies. You know the ones. A man could fit in one if he were so inclined, but just barely.

[Jblaylock]

I figured a stasis box was really like a box with a gateway inside, and the thing stored in it passes through that gateway and into another deminsion, like TAR, where they wait to be pulled out. Only, not TAR, but a deminsion like it, which you cannot escape from but can only be released from.

[herid]

From what I remember, vacuole can detach from the pattern at any stage. Which is the risk in using them. Would they last for 3000+years?

good point. but I was mostly thinking of the DO using it on one of his followers. the DO would not care about it accidentally separating from the Pattern. and Moggy said that it can last for a thousand years so three thousand should be possible too.

 

The only reason anyone would want to enter a vacuole was that time flowed differently there, sometimes slower, sometimes faster. Sometimes much faster. She would not have been entirely surprised to learn that the Great Lord had really imprisoned her for a hundred years, or a thousand, to emerge into a world already his, to make her way feeding among carrion while the other Chosen stood at the pinnacle.

-CoS, Ch 25

 

I mentioned vacuoles because I would find it somewhat disappointing if they were not used for anything interesting in the series. I don't think Moggy's brief imprisonment in one qualifies. There was no time shift so a regular prison cell would have done just as well.

[yoniy0]

Perhaps Rand's Ba'alzamon dreams take place in one. There have been some irregularities with that place - in many ways it's just like the World of Dreams, but in others... He was pulled there from his dreams many times, but then there's the issue of his Skimming there at the end of TEotW. Is it even possible to Skim into tel'aran'rhiod?

 

Perhaps it's the same place in which the KoD-FS-tea-hour took place. We were told that Aran'gar's rings were a product of tel'aran'rhiod, yet it was a specific place which Aran'gar entered (not just materialized in). And the setting was determined by whoever got there first - meaning that the place remains the same each time they meet, but appears different (Aran'gar didn't appear to be able to affect it once Graendal's made her choice). The zomara seemed to actually be there as well, yet how did it get there (before Moridin)?

 

All in all, there's something fishy about places the Forsaken frequent.

[mb]

Is it even possible to Skim into tel'aran'rhiod?

It is possible; Rand does it all the time.

[yoniy0]

Is it even possible to Skim into tel'aran'rhiod?

It is possible; Rand does it all the time.

Prove it

[Ananta]

Is it even possible to Skim into tel'aran'rhiod?

It is possible; Rand does it all the time.

 

Doesn't he Travel there? Not Skim...

[mb]

Is it even possible to Skim into tel'aran'rhiod?

It is possible; Rand does it all the time.

Prove it

Rand has to use a gateway to enter Telaranrhiod. Do not have an exact quote; would search for it later.

[herid]

Perhaps Rand's Ba'alzamon dreams take place in one. There have been some irregularities with that place - in many ways it's just like the World of Dreams, but in others... He was pulled there from his dreams many times, but then there's the issue of his Skimming there at the end of TEotW. Is it even possible to Skim into tel'aran'rhiod?

 

Perhaps it's the same place in which the KoD-FS-tea-hour took place. We were told that Aran'gar's rings were a product of tel'aran'rhiod, yet it was a specific place which Aran'gar entered (not just materialized in). And the setting was determined by whoever got there first - meaning that the place remains the same each time they meet, but appears different (Aran'gar didn't appear to be able to affect it once Graendal's made her choice). The zomara seemed to actually be there as well, yet how did it get there (before Moridin)?

 

All in all, there's something fishy about places the Forsaken frequent.

 

those are interesting possibilities that I have not thought about. I believe the Forsaken meet in TAR. Birgitte and Nynaeve spy on their meeting right before Moggy catches them and pushes Birgitte out of TAR.

the KOD meet does take place in TAR too given the quotes you mention. Moridin may have sent zomara there ahead of himself. as for the settings, I think it was just considered impolite to change them once they were set by whoever put them there first. It would have required some extra will effort too.

 

 

 

Also, if some Forsaken meetings (or Rand Ba'alzamon meetings which are admittedly strange) take place in a stasis box that assumes several things about stasis boxes. Namely, that they can be really big, or even infinite in size as some have suggested earlier in the thread, that one can easily get in and out of one without extra help and that personal time passes inside a closed box. I really doubt the last two. I view a stasis box as a storage box - somebody has to open it, put stuff in and close it. That's how the Forsaken seem to refer to them. none of them ever mention anything which sounds like entering a stasis box themselves. Also, it seems that zero personal time passes while someone is inside a stasis box. that's how the gholam described its experience inside one.

 

The world had changed, as it seemed, in the blink of an eye. There had been a world of war and killing on a huge scale, with weapons that reached across miles, across thousands of miles, and then there was . . . this. But the gholam had not changed.

-tPoD, Ch 2

 

 

Is it even possible to Skim into tel'aran'rhiod?

It is possible; Rand does it all the time.

This may be semantics but I don't think entering TAR in the flesh can be called either Skimming or Traveling. it seems to be a separate weave from either of those two. But yes, Rand does it regularly or at least did it regularly. I'm not sure when was the last time he did it.

[Just Another Thread]

I don't know how effective a stasis box would be. I guess it would really depend on the progress of the waking world. If technology surpasses the usefulness of the channeling then what good would aes sedai be?

 

Look at our world. Sure we cant create fire out of thin air the wave of our hands but we can shoot fire with a flame thrower. we cant make the ground explode with the snap of a finger but toss a grenade and *boom* same effect. We cant heal by touch but we have pills and doctors with same capabilities just not the immediate return. To someone 2000 years ago what we have now would seem like magic.

 

Sheesh not to mention the language barrier. how would they communicate without weeks, months or years of steady work.

 

Our society would probably lock them up and melt their brain with psych drugs.

 

I think stasis box usefulness would be limited to no more then 500 years.

[yoniy0]

Is it even possible to Skim into tel'aran'rhiod?

It is possible; Rand does it all the time.

Prove it

Rand has to use a gateway to enter Telaranrhiod. Do not have an exact quote; would search for it later.

As Ananta and herid mentioned, we've never seen him use Skimming to enter or leave tel'aran'rhiod. Unless you can prove otherwise? If I'm not much mistaken, we've only seen him do one or the other in the following scenes:

(a) In the Stone, chasing Ishamael (TDR).

(b) In Caemlyn, chasing Rahvin (TFoH).

© In the Heart, after he finished spying on the meeting where Egwene was summoned to Salidar (LoC).

 

take place in a stasis box

Oh no, I was referring to vacuoles.

[Ananta]

I don't know how effective a stasis box would be. I guess it would really depend on the progress of the waking world. If technology surpasses the usefulness of the channeling then what good would aes sedai be?

 

Look at our world. Sure we cant create fire out of thin air the wave of our hands but we can shoot fire with a flame thrower. we cant make the ground explode with the snap of a finger but toss a grenade and *boom* same effect. We cant heal by touch but we have pills and doctors with same capabilities just not the immediate return. To someone 2000 years ago what we have now would seem like magic.

 

Sheesh not to mention the language barrier. how would they communicate without weeks, months or years of steady work.

 

Our society would probably lock them up and melt their brain with psych drugs.

 

I think stasis box usefulness would be limited to no more then 500 years.

 

I don't see why Channeling and technology have to be put against one another. They could be used to complement each other.

[alligator]

Sort of a la Hermione's purse in the latest Harry Potter movie ;)

I was thinking along the same lines (oh, not regarding stasis boxes, just reading your post), until I got to the end of your comment. Why the movie? It's a recurring theme in Rowling's series, the whole 'looks small, lots of room inside' thing.

 

I always pictured them like treasure boxes from pirate movies. You know the ones. A man could fit in one if he were so inclined, but just barely.

 

I referenced the movie because I haven't read any of the books since the last one came out, what, three or four years ago? And I saw the movie a couple weeks ago :) so I couldn't remember if it was something included in the books or not.

[francy]

Wow, I'm glad I asked, its so interesting to read what other people imagine Stasis boxes to be! I pictured a plain box, probably the size and shape of a coffin. Which is silly seeing how dozens of zomara were found in one!

 

I was just thinking about my original question, and flirting with the idea that Aes Sedai put themselves into stasis to be brought back out at TG - we already established that Aes Sedai probably wouldn't do this to themselves because of the risk of never being able to get out again. If an Aes Sedai from the AOL wanted to be there to help at TG, I guess she'd probably travel through the portal stones - choosing a world that runs a lot faster than Randland.

 

Again - I'm not saying that this might come into the story or anything, just idle imaginings...

 

:-)

[Ananta]

 

I always pictured them like treasure boxes from pirate movies. You know the ones. A man could fit in one if he were so inclined, but just barely.

 

That is how I pictured them, too.

[yoniy0]

I was just thinking about my original question, and flirting with the idea that Aes Sedai put themselves into stasis to be brought back out at TG - we already established that Aes Sedai probably wouldn't do this to themselves because of the risk of never being able to get out again.

You know, they could do it Ender style. Leave orders to open the box every hundred years; that way you can be relatively sure that someone will remember you (especially if you do it in the White Tower, once it's been founded). You fool around for a week (maybe catch the news and familiarize yourself with the way language has evolved), then close yourself in again.

[francy]

I was just thinking about my original question, and flirting with the idea that Aes Sedai put themselves into stasis to be brought back out at TG - we already established that Aes Sedai probably wouldn't do this to themselves because of the risk of never being able to get out again.

You know, they could do it Ender style. Leave orders to open the box every hundred years; that way you can be relatively sure that someone will remember you (especially if you do it in the White Tower, once it's been founded). You fool around for a week (maybe catch the news and familiarize yourself with the way language has evolved), then close yourself in again.

 

Yeah, I thought about that too! :-)

 

There would have to be a small faction in the WT, a couple Aes Sedai passing the secret along down the years. They could have decided to do it that way, because some more intellegent, or paranoid, Aes Sedai may have been concerned about the Black Ajah. So, any day now, an Aes Sedai will go and tell Egwene the truth, and they release their AOL sisters!

 

Done!

 

hehehe