The Path of Daggers-Weaving and Unweaving the Power

[M'Hael93]

Obviously we find our that Aviendha can unweave weaves, but who else can that we know of. I have a suspicion that the forsaken know how but if they do shouldn't Moridin? Also are channelers able to change their weaves without letting one dissipate before weaving another?

[herid]

Obviously we find our that Aviendha can unweave weaves, but who else can that we know of.

The Forsaken definitely don't know how to do it. Moridin mentions this specifically when he watches Avi do it. He thought it impossible. The Wise Ones can do it as Avi mentions. Likely nobody else can. The windfinders and the Aes Sedai are shocked to see it. Who else is left?

 

Also are channelers able to change their weaves without letting one dissipate before weaving another?

Aes sedai can adjust their weaves without letting them dissipate (as Beonin does when she teaches Elaida Traveling) but I'm not completely sure if this is what you are asking. could you perhaps give an example of what you have in mind?

[M'Hael93]

Obviously we find our that Aviendha can unweave weaves, but who else can that we know of.

The Forsaken definitely don't know how to do it. Moridin mentions this specifically when he watches Avi do it. He thought it impossible. The Wise Ones can do it as Avi mentions. Likely nobody else can. The windfinders and the Aes Sedai are shocked to see it. Who else is left?

 

Also are channelers able to change their weaves without letting one dissipate before weaving another?

Aes sedai can adjust their weaves without letting them dissipate (as Beonin does when she teaches Elaida Traveling) but I'm not completely sure if this is what you are asking. could you perhaps give an example of what you have in mind?

Something to the effect of creating a gateway but then deciding to attack something with the power instead. Could The gateway weave be changed to say the weave for a lightning bolt?

Also good point about the unweaving. Unless you or i have missed anyone i dont think anyone else can. However i would guess that now that they've seen it done someone else will do it. For example, Elayne.

[herid]

Obviously we find our that Aviendha can unweave weaves, but who else can that we know of.

The Forsaken definitely don't know how to do it. Moridin mentions this specifically when he watches Avi do it. He thought it impossible. The Wise Ones can do it as Avi mentions. Likely nobody else can. The windfinders and the Aes Sedai are shocked to see it. Who else is left?

 

Also are channelers able to change their weaves without letting one dissipate before weaving another?

Aes sedai can adjust their weaves without letting them dissipate (as Beonin does when she teaches Elaida Traveling) but I'm not completely sure if this is what you are asking. could you perhaps give an example of what you have in mind?

Something to the effect of creating a gateway but then deciding to attack something with the power instead. Could The gateway weave be changed to say the weave for a lightning bolt?

as I said, Beonin adjusts her weave to change a gateway for Traveling into one for skimming without letting the weaves dissipate.

 

The Gray peered at her across the teacup, her face very still. "Yes." she said at last. "I cannot make cuendillar, but I can make the new Healing weaves work as well as most sisters, and I know them all." An edge of excitement crept into her voice. "The most marvelous is Traveling." Without asking permission, she embraced the Source and wove Spirit. A vertical line of silver appeared against one wall and widened into a view of snow-covered oaks. A cold breeze blew into the room. making the flames dance in the fireplace. "That is called a gateway. It can only be used to reach a place you know well, but you learn a place by making a gateway there, and to go somewhere you do not know well, you use Skimming." She altered the weave, and the opening dwindled into that silvery line once more then widened again.

-KoD, Ch 2

 

but i would consider it unlikely that the same can be done in your example as the weaves are likely very different.

Also good point about the unweaving. Unless you or i have missed anyone i dont think anyone else can.

 

I've thought of another potential group - the damane. We never see any indication that they can do it but the possibility probably can not be dismissed out of hand.

However i would guess that now that they've seen it done someone else will do it. For example, Elayne.

this comment tells me that you haven't read till the end of tPoD. I won't spoil it for you then . Read on.

[Thor]

We know that weaves can be turned into other weaves before it is finished. (See Nynaeve's final testing)

 

We also know that channelers can 'let the weave go' before it arrives at its original target (see Rand's balefire in SL)

[Finnssss22]

All the Aiel Wiseone channelers are trained in un-weaving weaves. Avi states as much in tPoD chptr 2.

 

It's not a Talent like Avi being able see weave residue's, it's just something else that can be done with the power that wasn't thought of/discovered in the AoL or by many others in this age.

[Kestrel]

Rand can probably unweave. He untied the knots in the weaves that were binding him so that he could escape the box.

[Luckers]

Rand can probably unweave. He untied the knots in the weaves that were binding him so that he could escape the box.

 

There is a difference between unravelling a knot and unweaving. That being said, anyone could unweave so long as they were trained, Rand included. But he would still need that training, or else he'd had the same issues as Elayne.

 

Some suggest Moiraine can unweave, though I disagree. It's based on this...

 

After the wicker panniers were fastened on the packhorse, after every scrap and smudge and track were gone and everyone else was mounted, the Aes Sedai stood in the middle of the hilltop with her eyes closed, not even seeming to breathe. Nothing happened that Rand could see, except that Nynaeve and Egwene shivered despite the heat and rubbed their arms briskly.

 

....

 

"What are we waiting for?" Mat demanded, the low band of his scarf across his forehead. He had his bow across the pommel of his saddle with an arrow nocked, and his quiver pulled around on his belt for an easy

reach.

 

Moiraine opened her eyes and started down the hill. "For me to remove the last vestige of what I did here last night. The residues would have dissipated on their own in a day, but I will not take any risk I can avoid now. We are too close, and the Shadow is too strong here. Lan?"

 

[tEotW; 49, The Dark One Stirs]

 

She states that she removed the residue--unweaving stops there from being residue. In addition she had already released the weave before she set about 'removing the residue' again, not something unweaving could do.

 

My guess is she did something to scrub away the residue, possibly a very weak weave of spirit or something--it wipes away the residue, and then its own residue dissipates in moments or something. Either way what she did doesn't match unweaving.

[Mandro]

Obviously we find our that Aviendha can unweave weaves, but who else can that we know of.

The Forsaken definitely don't know how to do it. Moridin mentions this specifically when he watches Avi do it. He thought it impossible. The Wise Ones can do it as Avi mentions. Likely nobody else can. The windfinders and the Aes Sedai are shocked to see it. Who else is left?

 

Also are channelers able to change their weaves without letting one dissipate before weaving another?

Aes sedai can adjust their weaves without letting them dissipate (as Beonin does when she teaches Elaida Traveling) but I'm not completely sure if this is what you are asking. could you perhaps give an example of what you have in mind?

Something to the effect of creating a gateway but then deciding to attack something with the power instead. Could The gateway weave be changed to say the weave for a lightning bolt?

Also good point about the unweaving. Unless you or i have missed anyone i dont think anyone else can. However i would guess that now that they've seen it done someone else will do it. For example, Elayne.

 

In' WH when cyndane attacks Alivia, and then "the weave vanished." seems to say that alivia has a lot of inside scoop.

[Luckers]

Obviously we find our that Aviendha can unweave weaves, but who else can that we know of.

The Forsaken definitely don't know how to do it. Moridin mentions this specifically when he watches Avi do it. He thought it impossible. The Wise Ones can do it as Avi mentions. Likely nobody else can. The windfinders and the Aes Sedai are shocked to see it. Who else is left?

 

Also are channelers able to change their weaves without letting one dissipate before weaving another?

Aes sedai can adjust their weaves without letting them dissipate (as Beonin does when she teaches Elaida Traveling) but I'm not completely sure if this is what you are asking. could you perhaps give an example of what you have in mind?

Something to the effect of creating a gateway but then deciding to attack something with the power instead. Could The gateway weave be changed to say the weave for a lightning bolt?

Also good point about the unweaving. Unless you or i have missed anyone i dont think anyone else can. However i would guess that now that they've seen it done someone else will do it. For example, Elayne.

 

In' WH when cyndane attacks Alivia, and then "the weave vanished." seems to say that alivia has a lot of inside scoop.

 

That also was not unweaving, but rather the effect of one of Nynaeve's ter'angreal--one which functions like Mat's medallion or Cadsuane's intertwined moons by disipating the weave.

[Ananta]

Rand can probably unweave. He untied the knots in the weaves that were binding him so that he could escape the box.

 

There is a difference between unravelling a knot and unweaving. That being said, anyone could unweave so long as they were trained, Rand included. But he would still need that training, or else he'd had the same issues as Elayne.

 

Some suggest Moiraine can unweave, though I disagree. It's based on this...

 

After the wicker panniers were fastened on the packhorse, after every scrap and smudge and track were gone and everyone else was mounted, the Aes Sedai stood in the middle of the hilltop with her eyes closed, not even seeming to breathe. Nothing happened that Rand could see, except that Nynaeve and Egwene shivered despite the heat and rubbed their arms briskly.

 

....

 

"What are we waiting for?" Mat demanded, the low band of his scarf across his forehead. He had his bow across the pommel of his saddle with an arrow nocked, and his quiver pulled around on his belt for an easy

reach.

 

Moiraine opened her eyes and started down the hill. "For me to remove the last vestige of what I did here last night. The residues would have dissipated on their own in a day, but I will not take any risk I can avoid now. We are too close, and the Shadow is too strong here. Lan?"

 

[tEotW; 49, The Dark One Stirs]

 

She states that she removed the residue--unweaving stops there from being residue. In addition she had already released the weave before she set about 'removing the residue' again, not something unweaving could do.

 

My guess is she did something to scrub away the residue, possibly a very weak weave of spirit or something--it wipes away the residue, and then its own residue dissipates in moments or something. Either way what she did doesn't match unweaving.

And then there's the fact that that's in tEotW, which isn't always the most reliable book to count on when you talk about channeling.

[Kestrel]

That also was not unweaving, but rather the effect of one of Nynaeve's ter'angreal--one which functions like Mat's medallion or Cadsuane's intertwined moons by disipating the weave.

OK, this doesn't quite pass the smell check.

 

Are we saying that no one in the AoL had ever heard of unweaving, but they COULD make ter'angreal that would unweave whatever was thrown at them?

 

Of course, I suppose they could have gotten around this inconsistency by making those ter'angreals from clay dug up in a stedding.

[LemonPastie]

I would guess that the ter'angreal cause a loss of cohesion of the strands within an entire weave, thus causing it to dissipate. and from Moridin's comments about 'impossibilities casually offered up' when Avi unweaves the gate, the process of unweaving was known to exist, but not practiced due to great risk.

 

I also think we saw Avi learning to unweave when the Aiel are walking around the waste (I can't remember if it is going to the Golden Bowl, to Rhuiden, or to the pass). We see, from Mat or Rand, that a fireball shoots off into the desert and the wise ones get all excited. This could be the first thing she has unwoven. I got the idea that the direction of the fireball was a little uncontrolled, and we also know that Avi has only been taught the Power since heading back to the waste, so she must have learned this at some stage during the WOT books

[herid]

 

Are we saying that no one in the AoL had ever heard of unweaving, but they COULD make ter'angreal that would unweave whatever was thrown at them?

 

 

the effects of Nynaeve's ter'angreal and Mat's medallion are somewhat different from unweaving as mentioned. They melt the weave completely while unweaving is similar to untying a complicated knot completely one thread at a time.

 

The difference is similar to Alexander the Great dealing with the Gordian knot.

But otherwise this is exactly what Lucker's was saying. Nobody in AoL knew how to unweave. Moridin made that crystal clear when he saw Avi unweave the gateway.

 

Moridin went back to studying the stableyard below as soon as Madic spoke. Ridiculous tales of gold and cuendillar held no interest. Nothing would make a gateway behave that way. Unless . . . Could she actually have unraveled the web? Death held no fear for him. Coldly he considered the possibility that he had been within sight of an unraveling web. One that had been unmade successfully. Another impossibility casually offered up by these . . .

-tPoD, Ch 2

This means that neither Moridin, nor any of the Forsaken, nor LT knew how to do it.

[LemonPastie]

Moridin went back to studying the stableyard below as soon as Madic spoke. Ridiculous tales of gold and cuendillar held no interest. Nothing would make a gateway behave that way. Unless . . . Could she actually have unraveled the web? Death held no fear for him. Coldly he considered the possibility that he had been within sight of an unraveling web. One that had been unmade successfully. Another impossibility casually offered up by these . . .

-tPoD, Ch 2

 

This in particular means to me that the theory, at least, is known to Moridin

[Thor]

The thing is, people have tried, but the result is catastrophic always. See Elayne's gateway blowing up people.

 

So therefore they thought it was impossible. Remember the Aes Sedai's horror (who was it again?) when she saw what Aviendha was doing? It wasn't amazement at first, it was pure horror.

[Sharaman]

The thing is, people have tried, but the result is catastrophic always. See Elayne's gateway blowing up people.

 

So therefore they thought it was impossible. Remember the Aes Sedai's horror (who was it again?) when she saw what Aviendha was doing? It wasn't amazement at first, it was pure horror.

It's known in concept but the risks are considered too high even for a nutter like Ishamel to have tried doing it.

Incidentally, I don't think the AS of AOL would have been much into crochet or needlework which Avi says is useful to learn unweaving.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

It's known in concept but the risks are considered too high even for a nutter like Ishamel to have tried doing it.

 

 

haha, I like that.

 

If even Ishmael wont try it, you know its crazy.

 

 

True enough though, I dont think anyone but Avi and co. knows how to unweave. Its far, far to dangerous, and highly unreliable.