Matrim Cauthon

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

Are you serious? For one, it is illogical that an entire army of Seanchan are Darkfriends or would be willing to fight alongside Shadowspawn so Camelyn is out of the mix. That is the same reason why Demandred is most likely not King Roedran of Murandy. Secondly, the same goes for him convincing the army to fight alongside male channelers and marath'damane. Thirdly, from Aviendha's vision we know that Rand actually does kneel to Tuon herself. Finally, what would be the point in Demandred bringing the Crystal Throne over the Aryth Ocean? To prove his legitimacy? Showing up with a Seanchan army would do that.

 

That is why I stated he was not referring to Seanchan as his army or the place where his rule is secure. I am not saying that an army of Seanchan is going to fight for Demandred at the Last Battle, but imagine the chaos he can cause by merely holding the throne letting the civil war continue, and then proceeding to wipe out anyone that has or gains power. Demandred is in control of Seandar and at least part of northern Seanchan thus is the "murderer openly ruling" as of now. Demandred is the Crystal Throne and killing Rand will ensure that he (Rand) kneels before the Crystal Throne. That also fulfills Ishamael's prophecy about a doom yet to come. And no the CT will not be moved or even be seen, it is more metaphorical at this point. Tuon may believe she is the living embodiment of the CT but that doesn't make it so. On this side of the Aryth Ocean yes, but she isn't even known in Seanchan to a.) be alive or b.) have claimed to be Empress.

[mb]

As so many people have pointed out, the Seanchan prophecies were twisted beyond recognition by Ishamael. Fortuona's beliefs that Rand must kneel before her and her throne are based on a bunch of lies.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Mat blow the Horn of Valere again, bringing Artur Hawkwing down to confront his precious little empress. I fully expect Hawkwing to clear up a few misconceptions Fortuona has about Rand, the Last Battle, and their mutual roles. Hawkwing himself is probably the only person who could convince her.

From looking through Encyclopaedia's Towers of Midnight pages, it seems that Tarmon Gaidon will be soon; and pretty much everyone seems busy. There might not be enough time for the meeting.

Or if there is enough time, not sure whether any of the Heroes would stay around just to talk with a descendant; or whether Mat would blow it for that purpose. The Heroes seem to be about fighting (at least when the Horn is blown).

[Mandro]

The actual wordings are 1) that Rand will 'bind the nine moons to serve him' and 2) that Rand will 'kneel to the Crystal Throne'. Many people have tried to twist this into Rand bowing only to Mat over the years (because they are Mat fanboys, but they hate the Seanchan, usually), but it doesn't really make a great deal of sense. In order for Mat to represent either the nine moons or the Crystal Throne in any real way, he and Tuon are going to have to come to some kind of agreement, and in that case, there's probably no harm in Rand bowing to Tuon anyway. Aviendha's vision of the future indicated that Rand bowed to her. And why not, if she meets his terms? The only thing he will not accept is the collaring of channelers, and while Mat might throw in the da'covale, it's not hard to see her being persuaded to abolish slavery altogether. There are many indications that she will get her Consolidation after all, and no real indication that Mat will be emperor, or that he would even want to be. Tuon was raised to rule; Mat was not. Obviously, his influence is necessary for her to be the best ruler possible, but I doubt it will go beyond that.

 

 

I prefer mine, that he doesn't "kneel" in obedience, but in pain. I can't find a reference, but I remember reading in last re-reading a mention of a "domination chair." and perhaps the CT is some sort of TA like a domination chair that responds to a man channeling. that' doesn't matter, because at the time the agreement is made, rand will "kneel" as in fall to his knees in pain, not kneel to the might of the ever victorious army.

[Wantanswers]

The Fires of Heaven Chapter 15

 

“Rand sitting down in a chair, and somehow she knew that the chair's owner would be murderously angry at having her chair taken”

 

I don't understand why most people think that chair is the Lion Throne and that the chair owner is Morgase. There are three 3 possible options for that chair and it's owner:

The Lion Throne Morgase

The Amyrlin Seat Egwene

The Chrystal Throne Fortuona

Personally I tend to believe the third option although it raised some questions:

1. Is the Chrystal Throne the Throne of Dominion?

2. Can every one use it? According to RJ they can, but was his answer complete? Everyone can use the Horn of Valere, but since Mat blew on it, people can use it, but they cannot call the Heroes with it as long as Mat lives.

3. Does the CT have properties of which we don't know?

4. Must and can a bond be made to use all properties of the CT?

5. Did all the Empresses (unknowingly) create such a bond?

6. Is kneeling before the CT needed to create a bond?

I stop with this list for every question leads to another and I know "one fool can ask more as...."

 

I also know that we should have another discussion if not almost everybody had assumed that this dream of Egwene was about Morgase.

I am also convinced that "binding the Nine Moons", will be much easier for Rand if he is sitting on the Chrystal Throne.

[randsc]

The Fires of Heaven Chapter 15

 

“Rand sitting down in a chair, and somehow she knew that the chair's owner would be murderously angry at having her chair taken”

 

I don't understand why most people think that chair is the Lion Throne and that the chair owner is Morgase. There are three 3 possible options for that chair and it's owner:

The Lion Throne Morgase

The Amyrlin Seat Egwene

The Chrystal Throne Fortuona

Personally I tend to believe the third option although it raised some questions:

1. Is the Chrystal Throne the Throne of Dominion?

2. Can every one use it? According to RJ they can, but was his answer complete? Everyone can use the Horn of Valere, but since Mat blew on it, people can use it, but they cannot call the Heroes with it as long as Mat lives.

3. Does the CT have properties of which we don't know?

4. Must and can a bond be made to use all properties of the CT?

5. Did all the Empresses (unknowingly) create such a bond?

6. Is kneeling before the CT needed to create a bond?

I stop with this list for every question leads to another and I know "one fool can ask more as...."

 

I also know that we should have another discussion if not almost everybody had assumed that this dream of Egwene was about Morgase.

I am also convinced that "binding the Nine Moons", will be much easier for Rand if he is sitting on the Chrystal Throne.

 

There is another binding chair. It is in the basements of the White Tower.

 

I tend to think that the chair is not the Crystal Throne, because I don't think we're going to Seanchan (and Jordan said we wouldn't).

 

I'd love it to be the Amrylin Seat, but I don't really believe it.

 

Which leaves the Lion Throne.

[he who comes with a bong]

There was a red, crystal chair in Rhuidean. Chapter 58 I believe.

 

 

yah some where in there i do remember a chair of some type and who is to say that the color of it matters the women in the tower have that chair of remorse thing thats a block of stone with an indention in it

[Finnssss22]

The Crystal Throne is not a "binding chair".

According to the Guide, The Crystal Throne is a ter'angreal that inspires awe and worship towards whoever sits upon it.

 

Also, RJ already told us many years ago that Semirhage was indeed immune to its' effects.

Most conclude and I agree, that this has something to do with holding the One Power canceling or allowing one to resist it's effects.

[Wantanswers]

There is another binding chair. It is in the basements of the White Tower

Do you mean the Chair of Remorse? No one is going to sit voluntarily on it.

 

I tend to think that the chair is not the Crystal Throne, because I don't think we're going to Seanchan (and Jordan said we wouldn't

You needn't go to Seanchan. A gateway to Seandar and the Throne can be transported to the Rhandlands.

 

I'd love it to be the Amrylin Seat, but I don't really believe it.

An other Egwene hater? It will probably please you that she'll have to wash Rand's feet and dry them with her hair.

 

Which leaves the Lion Throne.

Easy reasoning, easy conclusion.

[randsc]

 

I'd love it to be the Amrylin Seat, but I don't really believe it.

An other Egwene hater? It will probably please you that she'll have to wash Rand's feet and dry them with her hair.

 

Sigh.

 

Right, that's the only possible explanation.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

I'd love it to be the Amrylin Seat, but I don't really believe it.

An other Egwene hater? It will probably please you that she'll have to wash Rand's feet and dry them with her hair.

 

Sigh.

 

Right, that's the only possible explanation.

 

Indeed.

 

It cant be the fact that she is an arrogant, self-centred ego-maniac?

 

No, it must be the fact that we are all blind Rand lovers.

 

Seriously, this excuse is getting tedious.

 

People need to get over the fact that others dislike Egwene because of her own faults.

[David Selig]

I don't understand why most people think that chair is the Lion Throne and that the chair owner is Morgase.

Because it's already happened, unlike your other suggestions, which are pure speculation and not that likely to ever happen. Of course the Lion Throne would be the most popular explanation, since it fits perfectly and came through soon after the foreshadowing was made.

[yoniy0]

People need to stop referring to each other as idiots.

[Wantanswers]

yoniy0 Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:32 PM

 

People need to stop referring to each other as idiots.

 

Never intended to refer to anybody as an idiot. Perhaps I overreacted in my answer to Randsc, but I get irritated and bored everytime if someone says something negative about any character in the books or if I interprete it as negative. I don't hate, nor love Egwene, but she is one of the most complicated characters in the books. Sometimes I want to sent her flowers, sometimes I want to kick her ass.

Nevertheless, Jordan created Egwene and I think he did it intentionally in this way. I want to know why. Sometimes I think that Egwene is still in a learning proces and that it will stop as soon as she is properly raised by the "First among Servants".

[yoniy0]

Never intended to refer to anybody as an idiot.

Don't worry, I know you didn't. The one I directed my comment at has taken it to heart (I know he didn't do it intentionally either, since we both learned that lesson together, I think, and since then I like to think that we are friendly).

Though, truth be told, he did go about fixing it like a thief at night, leaving me all alone out in the open, looking like an irrational twit

[Barid Bel Medar]

Never intended to refer to anybody as an idiot.

Don't worry, I know you didn't. The one I directed my comment at has taken it to heart (I know he didn't do it intentionally either, since we both learned that lesson together, I think, and since then I like to think that we are friendly).

Though, truth be told, he did go about fixing it like a thief at night, leaving me all alone out in the open, looking like an irrational twit

 

haha sorry about that.

 

My bad.

 

You pretty much got it right, not intentional, just how i type things.

 

In any case, i did indeed heed your advice, so now you dont look irrational

 

I didnt want to make a fuss, so i changed it like a theif in the night haha.