Androl is Taim

[randsc]

The real Mazrim Taim, that is.

 

Discuss.

[MasterAblar]

Seriously?

[Mandro]

What?

[Terez]

Why not? Moridin (who has actually been around since TSR) obviously wiped his brain of all his previous memories and sent him to Ghenjei, where the 'Finns (who have had more recent visitors than we were led to believe) drained his power and stuffed his brain full of another man's memories. But as part of his bargain, he asked for Lanfear. He wasn't sure why - he just knew that it felt right. Pretty soon after dropping her off at Shayol Ghul, he forgot all about it and then wandered into the Black Tower, wondering why he had a hole in his memories. He didn't even recognize the man he once was, nor that he had met the man underneath the Illusion.

[MasterAblar]

Why not? Moridin (who has actually been around since TSR) obviously wiped his brain of all his previous memories and sent him to Ghenjei, where the 'Finns (who have had more recent visitors than we were led to believe) drained his power and stuffed his brain full of another man's memories. But as part of his bargain, he asked for Lanfear. He wasn't sure why - he just knew that it felt right. Pretty soon after dropping her off at Shayol Ghul, he forgot all about it and then wandered into the Black Tower, wondering why he had a hole in his memories. He didn't even recognize the man he once was, nor that he had met the man underneath the Illusion.

 

You know you might have convinced me.

[Terez]

Silly Mazridin people.

[Sharaman]

Lovely!

[mb]

The real Taim I take to be Taim; not anyone else.

 

And Androl I take to be just Androl.

[Kestrel]

Bela does not feed the troll.

[randsc]

If Androl were just Androl, there would be no need for Sanderson to RAFO the question, "who is Androl?"

[Wantanswers]

If Androl were just Androl, there would be no need for Sanderson to RAFO the question, "who is Androl?"

If BS hadn't RAFO-ed it, we didn't have have this discussion.

Of course, there are mysteries around Androl. But to suggest he is Moridin, is really, really .....

[mb]

If Androl were just Androl, there would be no need for Sanderson to RAFO the question, "who is Androl?"

The same response might be given when asked of almost any character.

[randsc]

If Androl were just Androl, there would be no need for Sanderson to RAFO the question, "who is Androl?"

If BS hadn't RAFO-ed it, we didn't have have this discussion.

Of course, there are mysteries around Androl. But to suggest he is Moridin, is really, really .....

 

I didn't suggest that he is Moridin. I suggested that he is Mazrim Taim. The actual Mazrim Taim, the man who declared himself the Dragon Reborn. Who is not the person currently using that name.

 

Moridin has nothing to do with this. The name was introduced to the thread by another poster, over-anxious to appear clever. As it happens, I don't think the the person calling himself Taim is Moridin.

[OptimusPrime]

Androl isnt Taim. Taim is Androl. Close but no ciggy

[Terez]

Moridin has nothing to do with this. The name was introduced to the thread by another poster, over-anxious to appear clever.

Don't be jealous, now. It's not my fault you required my assistance to make your theory convincing.

[Wantanswers]

@Randsc

Sorry, was a bit sleepy when I posted.

 

About your question:

I don't think Androl was the original Taim. Mazrim Taim was a Saldean, Androl is a Taraboner.

Of course, Androl himself had a faint Taraboner accent, he was told. It had faded over the years since he'd last been home.

(ToM, Working Leather)

[randsc]

@Randsc

Sorry, was a bit sleepy when I posted.

 

About your question:

I don't think Androl was the original Taim. Mazrim Taim was a Saldean, Androl is a Taraboner.

Of course, Androl himself had a faint Taraboner accent, he was told. It had faded over the years since he'd last been home.

(ToM, Working Leather)

 

See, now that's a reasonable counter-argument. Unlike some of those above.

[herid]

No, Androl is Taim and Taim is Guire Amalasan.

 

Ishy kept Guire Amalasan in a vacuole (Moggy told us that this is possible, yet it has not really been used as a plot device to any great effect) but since Amalasan was gentled they couldn't use him for much. so he was killed once freed from the vacuole and trinsmigrated into Taim's body. The original Taim was killed in the attempt to free him from the Aes Sedai who were taking him to Tar Valon. His soul was then transmigrated into Androl's body who was killed to make room for it. Or something like that.

[Muad Cheade]

So if you believe Androl is the real Taim, who is the "false" Taim?

 

For your theory to hold weight, you first have to present strong enough evidence that Taim is not Taim of which I don't believe there is any.

 

Taim obviously can't be Demandred so I'm guessing you hold him to be Moridin.

[randsc]

So if you believe Androl is the real Taim, who is the "false" Taim?

 

For your theory to hold weight, you first have to present strong enough evidence that Taim is not Taim of which I don't believe there is any.

 

Taim obviously can't be Demandred so I'm guessing you hold him to be Moridin.

 

I don't know who Taim is. I do hold to the general proposition that authors don't waste space on irrelevencies. I acknowledge that such was not always true of Jordan, but I think the general rule holds.

 

There must be some reason why the whole suspicious Bashere/Taim "I shaved" byplay was included. There are also significant hints that Taim is not "just" Taim. The "so-called Aiel" line in particular. Why would Taim, in being trained by one of the Chosen, have had so many conversations about the Aiel and their history as to come to affect this way of refering to them? I don't think he would have. He refers to the so-called Aiel because he remembers when the Aiel were different. That doesn't mean he is Moridin, but it means he comes from another Age. We don't have any indication that there is a time-limit on the Dark Ones ability to place the soul of a dead person in a new body. He could have plucked a prominent Darkfriend from an earlier Age from his reservior of souls and sent him out into the world again. For that matter, there were originally more than 13 Chosen. The ones we know are just those who happened to be caught in the Sealing.

[herid]

So if you believe Androl is the real Taim, who is the "false" Taim?

 

For your theory to hold weight, you first have to present strong enough evidence that Taim is not Taim of which I don't believe there is any.

 

Taim obviously can't be Demandred so I'm guessing you hold him to be Moridin.

 

I don't know who Taim is. I do hold to the general proposition that authors don't waste space on irrelevencies. I acknowledge that such was not always true of Jordan, but I think the general rule holds.

 

There must be some reason why the whole suspicious Bashere/Taim "I shaved" byplay was included. There are also significant hints that Taim is not "just" Taim. The "so-called Aiel" line in particular. Why would Taim, in being trained by one of the Chosen, have had so many conversations about the Aiel and their history as to come to affect this way of refering to them? I don't think he would have. He refers to the so-called Aiel because he remembers when the Aiel were different. That doesn't mean he is Moridin, but it means he comes from another Age. We don't have any indication that there is a time-limit on the Dark Ones ability to place the soul of a dead person in a new body. He could have plucked a prominent Darkfriend from an earlier Age from his reservior of souls and sent him out into the world again. For that matter, there were originally more than 13 Chosen. The ones we know are just those who happened to be caught in the Sealing.

ok, since this is getting serious, we actually do know that there is a definite time limit on transmigration.

RJ said so

 

TOR Questions of the Week, December 2003 to April 2004

 

Week 3 Question: There are many theories that attempt to create a connection of time duration to the transmigration of the dead Forsaken. Are there time and/or power constraints on the Dark One's ability to transmigrate souls?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: There are definitely time constraints on the Dark One's power to transmigrate a soul. The soul doesn't have to be secured immediately - that is, the Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death - but the longer that passes after the death, the less chance that the Dark One will be able to secure the soul. Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone before the Dark One can know that the soul must be secured unless the amount of balefire used is very small. Remember that the more balefire is used, the further back the target's thread is burned out of the pattern.

 

After the soul is secured, then a suitable body must be acquired and stripped of the (former) owner's memory and soul to make way for the favored one. By the way, what constitutes a suitable body from the Dark One's perspective is not that of the recipient. Certainly Aginor would never have chosen to be reincarnated in his, shall we say, less than imposing body, nor would the womanizing Balthamel have chosen to be reincarnated as a beautiful woman. It was only chance that Moridin ended up in a body that is young, fairly good looking and physically imposing. Those things simply don't matter to the Dark One. But the body has to be basically healthy and sound, and neither too young nor too old. After all, the Dark One wants his servants to be effective, and a body that meets those basic requirements is more desirable than one that doesn't. Since there is no stockpile of such bodies, the only way for someone to die and immediately be reincarnated would be a matter of pure chance. That is, the death occurred when a suitable body was on hand for some other reason.

 

There are a few other limits and constraints, but I won't go into them here, since I may want to use them in the books, and I would rather they come as a surprise if I do.

 

so the DO coldn't have just plucked a soul of someone long gone and transmigrated it into a new body. something else like keeping a person in a vacuole as I suggested (I was only kidding about Amalasan of course) would have to be involved.

[Elan Tedronai]

Randsc is just fooling around with you people. C'mon now..

[seanzor]

Randsc is just fooling around with you people. C'mon now..

lol I can't believe this turned into a real discussion I thought this had joke written all over it from the start.

[yoniy0]

I don't think @randsc was joking, but I take it the thing about Tarabon and Saldea is accepted as counter-proof by everyone.

 

Still, it did brighten my day to read the title on the board, next to "Is Taim a chosen?", "Is Taim an imposter?" and "Is Taim Moridin?"

[Jblaylock]

Taim is Demandred.

Demandred is Androl.

Androl is Moridin.

Moridin is Taim.

Taim is Demandred

 

Enjoy your read of "The Wheel of Imposters," by Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson.