How to Fix Tuon

[Mandro]

Tuon is a stubbornly idiotic person who denies obvious truths such as Shadowspawn even though Mat repeatedly tells her and has proven to her time after time that he is a man of his word (She only admits it when Tylee finally presents her the heads of trollocs). Secondly, and far worse, she denies the humanity of damane even though she herself has the ability to channel! She is a foolish and cruel ruler and she exemplifies all that is despicable about the Seanchan.

 

And yeah, while I dislike Egwene, she comes second after Tuon in terms of stubborn idiocy/denial of the obvious and arrogance. Tuon honestly expects the Dragon Reborn, savior of the world and the Light, to kneel to her without the slightest doubt... A bloated ego doesn't even begin to describe it. I hope to god that the new humble Rand does NOT submit to her wishes even if it's just to appease her. She needs to be taught a lesson, preferably shown the kind of pain an a'dam can give first-hand and kept leashed for a month or so. Maybe that'll get her head on straight.

 

The difference, Tuon was raised to always believe those things.

 

Egwene chose to learn them and take them to heart.

[Mandro]

if you are christian and you are talking to a buddhist about religion, there are going to be differences. especially if you were born christian and he born buddhist, the views are 100% opposite. just about the only thing you could agree on is the core principals of every religion, be good to others, dont hurt or kill or cheat or be proud. well the same for them. just because you have never seen a big foot does that mean it doesnt exist? to tuon no one has seen shadow spawn in a so long that they are more than myths. remember mat didnt believe in trollocs at first, neither did rand. they were childrens stories told to frighten kids into going to sleep (a bit counterproductive i think) but then he sees one and it all comes crashing down. it wouldnt have mattered how much moiraine told him they existed, if they werent chasing him, he wouldnt have believed. the same with tuon. in her society and religion, it is OK for you to enslave someone, it is also necessary for the dragon reborn to kneel to the crystal throne. does that mean it is true? not at all. she doesnt need to be fixed she just needs to experience a little bit more.

Exactly.

 

Another real life example:

I find it easy to juxtapose Jesus and The Dragon Reborn. People know Jesus existed, just as they know The Dragon existed. Bible says Jesus will return, just as the Karaethon Cycle says that The Dragon will be reborn.

 

If someone edited the Bible to say that "Jesus will kneel in front of the Crystal Throne", then Christians would have no problem with the idea that when Jesus does his 2nd coming he will indeed kneel in front of the damn chair.

 

Most people (me includedm being non-religious and all) would require quite a lot of evidence before I even believed that Jesus is back in the game. Just like people of Randland would require quite a lot of evidence before they believe that Rand is indeed The Dragon Reborn.

 

 

 

It's easy for us readers to judge the people in the books because we KNOW the facts. We KNOW things. Try to imagine what you would do if someone came to your doorstep and said that Jesus has returned and is doing awesome deeds all over the world. Would you fanatically follow this messanger of light, or slam the door to his face? I'd most likely do the latter.

 

 

 

So you're saying that slavery is culturally ok if it exists in that culture. This argument is akin to arguing that the Taliban's abuse of women is culturally ok. What happened in your example of black inferiority is that eventually moral people realised that slavery was completely wrong and changed the culture, though it needed the Civil War in the US to end slavery. Something similar needs to happen in Seanchan.

I'm not saying slavery is OK. But I'm saying I understand why they do what they do. That's the way they've done things for centuries. It's how their culture works.

 

And I agree that something akin to Civil War in the US has to happen in Seanchan to set things "right". But also our perspective of "right" comes from our culture. Morals are rather new thing. In 1000 years people might think how barbarian the people of 21st century were because we imprison criminals and have sex with people under 40.

 

Jesus won't be reborn, he has already "risen", he will return, that is different.

 

[used the wrong turn of phrase, fixed it, what's up with me today, I'm not even drinking yet]

[Muad Cheade]

1. Amathera resisted the Seanchan. She wasn't broken for no reason. The Seanchan respond to resistance/rebellion/insurgency with extreme force. The same happened with the Whitecloaks. That is the primary way people become da'covale.

 

2. If my girlfriend told me that the boogeyman existed, I wouldn't believe her. The same goes for Tuon and Shadowspawn. Was she to believe the word of a man that said half men, half animal creatures existed? For example, Tairens didn't believe in Shadowspawn until they fought them in the Stone of Tear.

 

3. The Seanchan only believe that there are those who can channel and then there are everyone else. There is no concept of "learners" as there is in the Westlands.

 

4. By leashing damane, the Seanchan believe they are preventing them from wreaking havoc as they did when Luthair first arrived on the continent.

 

5. The nation that condones slavery is not evil. The institution of slavery is.

 

6. Tuon is a very just and wise ruler. Just look at how Rand and Tuon both responded to traitors.

[Lord D]

As the original poster, I think Ashandarei has done a very good job of presenting my arguments. I also think there's some good in Tuon, and that she needs to have an epiphany to realise that what her empire is doing is wrong. After that, maybe she'll be able to reform the rest of the Seanchan.

 

As well as Amathera, we also see Suroth abuse Liandrin in the KoD prologue. Amathera and Liandrin's abuses seem typical of abuse meted out to low-order da'covale. High-order da'covale may be treated differently, and are often friends of their masters/mistresses, but low-order da'covale are treated like property, as their name implies.

[Mandro]

1. Amathera resisted the Seanchan. She wasn't broken for no reason. The Seanchan respond to resistance/rebellion/insurgency with extreme force. The same happened with the Whitecloaks. That is the primary way people become da'covale.

 

2. If my girlfriend told me that the boogeyman existed, I wouldn't believe her. The same goes for Tuon and Shadowspawn. Was she to believe the word of a man that said half men, half animal creatures existed? For example, Tairens didn't believe in Shadowspawn until they fought them in the Stone of Tear.

 

3. The Seanchan only believe that there are those who can channel and then there are everyone else. There is no concept of "learners" as there is in the Westlands.

 

4. By leashing damane, the Seanchan believe they are preventing them from wreaking havoc as they did when Luthair first arrived on the continent.

 

5. The nation that condones slavery is not evil. The institution of slavery is.

 

6. Tuon is a very just and wise ruler. Just look at how Rand and Tuon both responded to traitors.

 

Very good breakdown

[Lord D]

1. Amathera resisted the Seanchan. She wasn't broken for no reason. The Seanchan respond to resistance/rebellion/insurgency with extreme force. The same happened with the Whitecloaks. That is the primary way people become da'covale.

 

2. If my girlfriend told me that the boogeyman existed, I wouldn't believe her. The same goes for Tuon and Shadowspawn. Was she to believe the word of a man that said half men, half animal creatures existed? For example, Tairens didn't believe in Shadowspawn until they fought them in the Stone of Tear.

 

3. The Seanchan only believe that there are those who can channel and then there are everyone else. There is no concept of "learners" as there is in the Westlands.

 

4. By leashing damane, the Seanchan believe they are preventing them from wreaking havoc as they did when Luthair first arrived on the continent.

 

5. The nation that condones slavery is not evil. The institution of slavery is.

 

6. Tuon is a very just and wise ruler. Just look at how Rand and Tuon both responded to traitors.

My answer to your (1) is that the very word da'covale means property. Anything can be done to property. If your master/mistress is ok, he may only hurt you if you rebel or are sloppy. However, if you're unlucky, you may get a sadist or a bully as a master/mistress, in which case things become decidedly unpleasant no matter how hard you try to please them.

 

As to (5), would you not consider the US South to have been evil when they used black slave labour? Having the very institution of slavery has a highly corrupting influence on other parts of that society, as slaves can be treated anyway the master/mistress desire.

 

For (6), Tuon is just more ruthless than Rand when it comes to handling traitors; this hardly makes her just or wise. If Rand had given Colavaere to a bunch of elite Dragonsworn to "serve them as they wish", would we have thought he was one of the good guys anymore?

[Ashandarei]

1. Amathera resisted the Seanchan. She wasn't broken for no reason. The Seanchan respond to resistance/rebellion/insurgency with extreme force. The same happened with the Whitecloaks. That is the primary way people become da'covale.

 

2. If my girlfriend told me that the boogeyman existed, I wouldn't believe her. The same goes for Tuon and Shadowspawn. Was she to believe the word of a man that said half men, half animal creatures existed? For example, Tairens didn't believe in Shadowspawn until they fought them in the Stone of Tear.

 

3. The Seanchan only believe that there are those who can channel and then there are everyone else. There is no concept of "learners" as there is in the Westlands.

 

4. By leashing damane, the Seanchan believe they are preventing them from wreaking havoc as they did when Luthair first arrived on the continent.

 

5. The nation that condones slavery is not evil. The institution of slavery is.

 

6. Tuon is a very just and wise ruler. Just look at how Rand and Tuon both responded to traitors.

 

1) Of course she did! They were invaders! Regardless, there is NO justification for slavery. None.

 

2) Your analogy isn't accurate. In this case your girlfriend would have to be one of the most important(if not the most important) general of your country's armies, leading over 50,000 men into combat and have a flawless track record, winning every single one of the many battles she engaged her forces in. Now, this battle-commander and general tells you in 100% seriousness that creatures similar to the "boogeyman" are prevalent in a certain region of the continent you live on and that she has faced them many a time in battle. Are you honestly not even going to consider the possibility and risk that that poses? And you wouldn't just be a civilian, you'd be the Emperor of a massive nation with responsibilities to your people. Dismissing such a serious risk without any consideration when repeatedly warned by as trustworthy a source as your partner who has extensive field-experience in battle is a borderline criminal offense if you're the ruler of a nation.

 

3) What's your point? Is it, "they're ignorant so it's not their fault"? Tuon can't even claim ignorance- Mat has explained things to her quite clearly.

 

4) Their belief is wrong. Mat proves this to Tuon as well by showing him that Teslyn, Edesina, and Joline don't turn into "horrible monsters" when unleashed. He shows her that all three AS are people and should be treated as such.

 

5) The "institution" of slavery doesn't exist magically by itself. People enforce it. Those same people are the ones that deserve the blame. Currently, Tuon is one of those people. If she still refuses to change her views by AMoL, and anyone else who refuses, can quite legitimately be considered evil. That's the difference between "misguided" and "evil". Someone who refuses to change their ways when provided every possible shred of evidence that what they do is wrong and completely immoral is evil. Someone who does examine their actions and ways and changes in response to the evidence can be said to have previously been misguided.

 

6) I agree that Tuon has shown wisdom in some things, she certainly has the potential for greatness. Whether that potential is for great evil or great good is yet to be seen.

 

EDIT:

@Lord D: Thanks.

[muddymess]

I like Tuon, she has always stayed true to her beliefs and yet shows wisdom often.

 

The Seanchan, even though (by our standards) using some immoral methods, are still a great nation - they provide stability and security. Da'covale is wrong on many levels, but I think it can be a great way to punish criminals - they are basically prisoners but they can contribute to society. Damane are a good way to balance the AS, bring them down off their high horses a bit. I'd much prefer the servants (AS) to be actual servants rather than self-righteous, self-important, stuck-up know-it-alls.

[Mandro]

I like Tuon, she has always stayed true to her beliefs and yet shows wisdom often.

 

The Seanchan, even though (by our standards) using some immoral methods, are still a great nation - they provide stability and security. Da'covale is wrong on many levels, but I think it can be a great way to punish criminals - they are basically prisoners but they can contribute to society. Damane are a good way to balance the AS, bring them down off their high horses a bit. I'd much prefer the servants (AS) to be actual servants rather than self-righteous, self-important, stuck-up know-it-alls.

 

By "our" standards, the AOL is a land of plutocracy and oppression and slavery.

 

If the AOL was so flogging great and everyone wants to return to that, then eff them, let them take their baby steps through the Seanchan.

[Lord D]

I like Tuon, she has always stayed true to her beliefs and yet shows wisdom often.

 

The Seanchan, even though (by our standards) using some immoral methods, are still a great nation - they provide stability and security. Da'covale is wrong on many levels, but I think it can be a great way to punish criminals - they are basically prisoners but they can contribute to society. Damane are a good way to balance the AS, bring them down off their high horses a bit. I'd much prefer the servants (AS) to be actual servants rather than self-righteous, self-important, stuck-up know-it-alls.

 

By "our" standards, the AOL is a land of plutocracy and oppression and slavery.

 

If the AOL was so flogging great and everyone wants to return to that, then eff them, let them take their baby steps through the Seanchan.

What the hell do you mean by the AoL remark? All references in the books and the Guide have the AoL as a time of world peace, no slavery etc; in other words, an Age that we could aspire too. It's thus a tragedy in the books that humanity has fallen so far from the AoL.

 

As to damane and Aes Sedai, there's a HUGE difference between merely bringing AS down a peg or two, and completely enslaving all AS with extreme mental torture.

[Mandro]

I like Tuon, she has always stayed true to her beliefs and yet shows wisdom often.

 

The Seanchan, even though (by our standards) using some immoral methods, are still a great nation - they provide stability and security. Da'covale is wrong on many levels, but I think it can be a great way to punish criminals - they are basically prisoners but they can contribute to society. Damane are a good way to balance the AS, bring them down off their high horses a bit. I'd much prefer the servants (AS) to be actual servants rather than self-righteous, self-important, stuck-up know-it-alls.

 

By "our" standards, the AOL is a land of plutocracy and oppression and slavery.

 

If the AOL was so flogging great and everyone wants to return to that, then eff them, let them take their baby steps through the Seanchan.

What the hell do you mean by the AoL remark? All references in the books and the Guide have the AoL as a time of world peace, no slavery etc; in other words, an Age that we could aspire too. It's thus a tragedy in the books that humanity has fallen so far from the AoL.

 

As to damane and Aes Sedai, there's a HUGE difference between merely bringing AS down a peg or two, and completely enslaving all AS with extreme mental torture.

 

In the collums the DaiShain were compelled to stand with the pact, the daishain had to offer their children for testing to be taken into servers with the AS, in the AoL The warriors were chosen for war and then compelled only released once the war was thought over.

 

the AoL might be more minor than Hawkwings decendents, but hawkwing was closer to the AOL than any of the other rulers.

[Razor]

I would love for Rand to appear before Tuon, lay a weave down that pops the adam off of every visible damane and snaps it around the neck of her suldam. It will not happen as it would create too much chaos and Rand needs to Seanchan to fight at Tarmon Guidon, but it would be funny.

[muddymess]

I like Tuon, she has always stayed true to her beliefs and yet shows wisdom often.

 

The Seanchan, even though (by our standards) using some immoral methods, are still a great nation - they provide stability and security. Da'covale is wrong on many levels, but I think it can be a great way to punish criminals - they are basically prisoners but they can contribute to society. Damane are a good way to balance the AS, bring them down off their high horses a bit. I'd much prefer the servants (AS) to be actual servants rather than self-righteous, self-important, stuck-up know-it-alls.

 

By "our" standards, the AOL is a land of plutocracy and oppression and slavery.

 

If the AOL was so flogging great and everyone wants to return to that, then eff them, let them take their baby steps through the Seanchan.

What the hell do you mean by the AoL remark? All references in the books and the Guide have the AoL as a time of world peace, no slavery etc; in other words, an Age that we could aspire too. It's thus a tragedy in the books that humanity has fallen so far from the AoL.

 

As to damane and Aes Sedai, there's a HUGE difference between merely bringing AS down a peg or two, and completely enslaving all AS with extreme mental torture.

Of course there is a huge difference, but I'm talking about the general impact that it has on the populace. Imagine if the general population could see one or two AS broken - that itself would, in their eyes, forever weaken the AS inflated political and social stance. This would of course not work with all AS collared. To the average person the difference between an AS and a damane is negligible in everyday life; thus forcing the AS to adapt or be destroyed, since I think it would be easy to convince most people to accept damane.

 

I think Tuon being with Mat and him showing her the AS acting as "regular" people should only worsen her ideas about AS. They're never grateful, rarely helpful and always feel entitled to whatever they want. Is this not exactly what Seandar was dealing with when Luthair came there the first time? That marath'damane were taking control, scheming, plotting and manipulating for their own benefit. The major difference being that the channelers there weren't constricted to not use the OP as a weapon.

 

I think he means that the AS had absolute power in AOL, thus it's a plutocracy - wealth being access to the one power.

[haloun]

so if winston churchill told you that he had fought big foot and extra terrestrials in northern europe many times would you believe him or would you think he had gone loony?

[Hopefire]

Just want to touch on a point mentioned a while back - Rand's actually been extremely lenient with regards to traitors overall.

 

I. He was betrayed by Elaida's faction of Aes Sedai, leading to his capture and torture. His response was to hand them over to the Wise Ones; when they offered to swear oaths to him, he accepted their oaths.

II. Colavaere declared herself queen, and Rand's response was to break her down to the social rank of peasant and exile her to a farm. While harsh, it's also no worse of a life than the vast majority of the world.

III. When Darlin rebelled against his rule in Tear, he went so far as to accede to a fair number of the rebel demands, and made Darlin king.

IV. He was betrayed by the Seanchan, when Semirhage tried to capture him. His response was to send them back to their people.

V. He was betrayed, after a fashion, by Cadsuane when she didn't take sufficient steps to ensure that the Domination Band and the access ter'angreal were secured. His response was to exile her from his presence on pain of death, but took no further direct action; when he did see her briefly by accident, he ignored her.

 

The darkfriends he found in Tear after he became ZenRand were allowed to leave freely. After a fashion, Egwene has betrayed him - her loyalty has clearly shifted away from Rand and to the White Tower (as her test to become Accepted indicated it would!), and he met her with compliments. When Rand felt that he couldn't trust Moiraine, she offered to swear to put him first, and he accepted that and trusted her almost completely going forward.

 

At the end of the day, Rand seems to either give someone a harsh but fair punishment or just forgive them and let the matter die. He gets really angry, definitely, but his decisions with regards to the punishment of traitors tend toward being quite practical.

[Ashandarei]

so if winston churchill told you that he had fought big foot and extra terrestrials in northern europe many times would you believe him or would you think he had gone loony?

 

Everyone in Mat's entourage- Thom, Juilin, the three Aes Sedai, Aludra- every single one supports his claim and agrees with him. If Winston Churchill and all 22 government ministers of the Cabinet unanimously told me that, while showing no other signs of being crazy, I'd take their warnings to heart. I might not be completely convinced until I saw them myself, but if say, I was President of the U.S. and I had troops in Europe(the way Tuon has Seanchan troops in Randland), I would be obligated to take the necessary measures to make sure my people were safe by acting on that warning and preparing for the risk.

[Mandro]

so if winston churchill told you that he had fought big foot and extra terrestrials in northern europe many times would you believe him or would you think he had gone loony?

 

Not until hitler showed up with bigfoots heads. I mean really? who wouldn't follow THE WC? The man gave "the perfect" recipe for a martini. "Pour gin, look at bottle of vermouth, drink."

[TheAngryDruid]

While I think you have to take into account someone's culture and the way they were raised when judging someone's actions, I don't buy this as an excuse for Tuon. Why?

 

1) Because other people who were raised in the same culture have come to the correct conclusion about damane, and they can't even channel (Egeanin).

 

2) And it isn't just channeling, it is blindness to other things as well. She's blind to the LB, attacking the WT on the eve of it, when she's spent weeks around unleashed women who can channel, to no ill effect.

 

3) And the situation with the Randlanders, and Mat. Tylee and her soldiers, who have spent far less time around Randlander's than she has, have got it right. Heck, the guy from her guard has a ton more respect for him than she does. She still thinks he's a Toy. This, after seeing the Band in action.

 

If there is one main character I hope that will die, it is Tuon. She deserves it. Of course, if Faile and Gawyn can make comebacks, anything is possible.

[ARBOLITO]

PEOPLE GIVE ENGWENE A BREAK .YOU EVER TRY TO GET A BUNCH OF CRAZY BITCHES TO DO WHAT YOU WANT?NOT AN EASY JOB AND IM SURE JORDAN WOULD HAVE MADE HER COOLER BRANDONS DOING HIS BEST.AS FAR AS TUON .I STILL LIKE HER BUT IF HER INVASION OF THE TOWER GOES WELL FOR HER I MIGHT START HATING HER.MY BEST GUESS IS THAT ONCE SHE SEES HOW REEL THE TROLOC THREAT IS.SHE WILL MAKE A TRUCE WITH RAND WHETHER RAND KNEELS OR NOT.OR MAYBE RAND WILL KNEEL BUT I DOUBT IT.AND OVER TIME SHE WILL GIVE UP THE LEASHES AND CHANNEL HERSELF.OR MAT WILL BKILL HER AND BECOME EMPERER.

[Ashandarei]

PEOPLE GIVE ENGWENE A BREAK .YOU EVER TRY TO GET A BUNCH OF CRAZY BITCHES TO DO WHAT YOU WANT?NOT AN EASY JOB AND IM SURE JORDAN WOULD HAVE MADE HER COOLER BRANDONS DOING HIS BEST.AS FAR AS TUON .I STILL LIKE HER BUT IF HER INVASION OF THE TOWER GOES WELL FOR HER I MIGHT START HATING HER.MY BEST GUESS IS THAT ONCE SHE SEES HOW REEL THE TROLOC THREAT IS.SHE WILL MAKE A TRUCE WITH RAND WHETHER RAND KNEELS OR NOT.OR MAYBE RAND WILL KNEEL BUT I DOUBT IT.AND OVER TIME SHE WILL GIVE UP THE LEASHES AND CHANNEL HERSELF.OR MAT WILL BKILL HER AND BECOME EMPERER.

 

For the love of god(and/or the sanity of other posters), please do not write in all CAPS!

[ARBOLITO]

PEOPLE GIVE ENGWENE A BREAK .YOU EVER TRY TO GET A BUNCH OF CRAZY BITCHES TO DO WHAT YOU WANT?NOT AN EASY JOB AND IM SURE JORDAN WOULD HAVE MADE HER COOLER BRANDONS DOING HIS BEST.AS FAR AS TUON .I STILL LIKE HER BUT IF HER INVASION OF THE TOWER GOES WELL FOR HER I MIGHT START HATING HER.MY BEST GUESS IS THAT ONCE SHE SEES HOW REEL THE TROLOC THREAT IS.SHE WILL MAKE A TRUCE WITH RAND WHETHER RAND KNEELS OR NOT.OR MAYBE RAND WILL KNEEL BUT I DOUBT IT.AND OVER TIME SHE WILL GIVE UP THE LEASHES AND CHANNEL HERSELF.OR MAT WILL BKILL HER AND BECOME EMPERER.

 

For the love of god(and/or the sanity of other posters), please do not write in all CAPS!

ARE YOU AN ENGLISH TEACHER?

[Ananta]

PEOPLE GIVE ENGWENE A BREAK .YOU EVER TRY TO GET A BUNCH OF CRAZY BITCHES TO DO WHAT YOU WANT?NOT AN EASY JOB AND IM SURE JORDAN WOULD HAVE MADE HER COOLER BRANDONS DOING HIS BEST.AS FAR AS TUON .I STILL LIKE HER BUT IF HER INVASION OF THE TOWER GOES WELL FOR HER I MIGHT START HATING HER.MY BEST GUESS IS THAT ONCE SHE SEES HOW REEL THE TROLOC THREAT IS.SHE WILL MAKE A TRUCE WITH RAND WHETHER RAND KNEELS OR NOT.OR MAYBE RAND WILL KNEEL BUT I DOUBT IT.AND OVER TIME SHE WILL GIVE UP THE LEASHES AND CHANNEL HERSELF.OR MAT WILL BKILL HER AND BECOME EMPERER.

 

For the love of god(and/or the sanity of other posters), please do not write in all CAPS!

ARE YOU AN ENGLISH TEACHER?

 

I, for example, simply don't read posts in full caps because it:

1. Looks absolutely ridiculous and stupid

2. Hurts my eyes

3. The poster is most likely retarded, so the post is probably not worth reading.

[Shimmer]

While I agree Tuon is the way she is because of her upbringing, that it not a justified excuse for her to remain arrogant and pompous. Her continuous high-handed manner, even with her husband, has made me read her PoVs with a sour taste in my mouth. She might be a good ruler but she is definitely not the most compassionate being in Randland. Rand seriusly needs to give her a dressing down, in the figurative sense.

[Mr Ares]

Here's what's screwed up about Damane, and Tuon's acceptance.

 

There are two rationale that the Seanchan use think leashing is okay. 1) they can do horrible things if they so choose, like murder people the the power, and 2) the ability to channel means you are sub-human, inherently, regardless of what you do with the power.

1) is wrong - it's not so much that damane can do horrible things like kill with the Power, it's that touching the Power itself is a horrible thing, that makes one less that human. The girls they leash are either people who have sparked, people who are about to, or people who are trained channelers. Those who are about to really have no choice - they wil touch the Source, whether they want to or not.Now, their reasons for leashing channelers to begin with are wrong, but I'd say they are internally consistent - Tuon cannot channel yet, therefore she should not be damane - yet. If you put an a'dam on her, it probably wouldn't hold her. Therefore, she shouldn't be held.

 

2) Your analogy isn't accurate. In this case your girlfriend would have to be one of the most important(if not the most important) general of your country's armies, leading over 50,000 men into combat and have a flawless track record, winning every single one of the many battles she engaged her forces in. Now, this battle-commander and general tells you in 100% seriousness that creatures similar to the "boogeyman" are prevalent in a certain region of the continent you live on and that she has faced them many a time in battle. Are you honestly not even going to consider the possibility and risk that that poses? And you wouldn't just be a civilian, you'd be the Emperor of a massive nation with responsibilities to your people. Dismissing such a serious risk without any consideration when repeatedly warned by as trustworthy a source as your partner who has extensive field-experience in battle is a borderline criminal offense if you're the ruler of a nation.

By the same token, is Mat extremely irresponsible for not taking Tuon's beliefs in omens seriously? She's his partner, everyone around her "knows" these things are true, yet Mat disbelieves! While he is content to believe in fairy stories.

 

I. He was betrayed by Elaida's faction of Aes Sedai, leading to his capture and torture. His response was to hand them over to the Wise Ones; when they offered to swear oaths to him, he accepted their oaths.

II. Colavaere declared herself queen, and Rand's response was to break her down to the social rank of peasant and exile her to a farm. While harsh, it's also no worse of a life than the vast majority of the world.

III. When Darlin rebelled against his rule in Tear, he went so far as to accede to a fair number of the rebel demands, and made Darlin king.

IV. He was betrayed by the Seanchan, when Semirhage tried to capture him. His response was to send them back to their people.

V. He was betrayed, after a fashion, by Cadsuane when she didn't take sufficient steps to ensure that the Domination Band and the access ter'angreal were secured. His response was to exile her from his presence on pain of death, but took no further direct action; when he did see her briefly by accident, he ignored her.

I'd say that last is a stretch - it was hardly Cadsuane's fault. She did the best she could and was unjustly punished for it. The Seanchan didn't betray him, nor did Elaida's faction. They weren't on his side to begin with. That said, Semi was in the wrong for trying to captrue Rand under a flag of truce (but she's a Chosen - we don't expect them to be nice guys), and the AS were wrong for kidnapping him.

[Hopefire]

I'd say that last is a stretch - it was hardly Cadsuane's fault. She did the best she could and was unjustly punished for it. The Seanchan didn't betray him, nor did Elaida's faction. They weren't on his side to begin with. That said, Semi was in the wrong for trying to captrue Rand under a flag of truce (but she's a Chosen - we don't expect them to be nice guys), and the AS were wrong for kidnapping him.

 

Rand allowed her to continue to possess the most dangerous weapon in the world, as well as an item that could have had profound negative consequences to the side of the Light if it was ever used. Cadsuane failed to do an adequate job of keeping them safe. I guess it's technically more of a case of gross failure than treachery; nevertheless, the fact is that Rand didn't take Stalin's solution to an epic fail on the part of his subordinate.

 

Elaida's Aes Sedai delegation and the Seanchan under Semirhage both came under a flag of truce, intending to break the truce. That's treachery. Specifically, it's perfidy. It doesn't matter that they weren't under him; to attack someone while under a flag of truce is a major no-no.