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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Wheel of Time Mafia Game Thread


WWWwombat

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Posted

Talya, I love having you in the game. You said all the things I wanted to say. Which, actually, is maybe bad, because now I have nothing to say lol.

 

To reiterate, then, I think lynching Drew solely based on Mynd's roleblocking is a bad idea. The mafia easily could've simply not silenced/compulsed anyone, especially since, as Talya pointed out, Mynd announced his strategy at night. If others find Drew scummy for additional reasons, fine, but a lynch on him solely for that is weak, I think.

 

I also find it weird that people attacked Drew for not bandwagoning on Curt. Last time I checked, it's better to not to simply bandwagon and instead vote someone you actually think is scummy, unless it's close to deadline and we need a majority.

 

That said, the reason Curt getting defensive about being on a list seemed odd was because, I think (if I remember correctly), he wasn't even on the list of people Mynd thought we should look at. He was like on the inactive list or something, and Mynd said he thought we shouldn't lynch those people. Which is why it's weird he responded so strongly. I could be remembering this incorrectly; I'll try to go back and check.

Posted

Vote Count

 

Curt (1): Nyn

Mynd (5): CurtDragon, Drew, Moon, BG

Drew (3): Mynd, Song, trench

 

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch. Deadline: Tuesday, Noon ET

Posted

What I meant talya is he's useful for inspiring conversation. He's one of the more active players and he always stirs the hornets nest.

 

Well I'm stirring the nest right now, aren't I? :rolleyes:

 

I can definetly get behind a lynch on Drew. Right now I am inclined to believe Mynd is town. Mynd says he blocked Drew and now there is no compulsed player. It could be a Mafia gambit to get Drew lynched, but Drew has pinged me as scum for awhile now. I cased him on day 3 when we lynched Blackhoof, I fingered him as scum as well for voting patterns. When Vam claimed dragon he tried to push us into a Vambram lynch, if Drew is scum he would have known Vam was not on his team, once the momentum switched to Blackhoof. Drew only came in on the vote late once it was assured Black would be lynched.

 

From my early suspicions, coupled with the gambit Mynd played by blocking Drew last night. I can Vote Drew confidently now.

 

I've never played with any of you, but Trench, you can't be fool enough to think I must be scum because there's no silence/compulsion victim. How many times has Mynd played? How could he NOT know it would have been a horrible move from a townie to say who he roleblocked and why? I've only played a few games and I can figure that out. Are you seriously buying that?

 

 

I would have been ok with a vote on Drew but I do agree with Talya a bit on the way you went out setting up the trap (either as town or maifa) wasnt ideal and that's what is making me pause. The mafia could have been waiting till near the end of the deadline before sending in actions and easily seen your post first.

Secondly there are three things you say you could have blocked. Two of them havent showed up so atleast one of them wasn't anything to do with your blocking

 

Thank you, the trap was blatant! And I sprung it on purpose to try to make it backfire on Mynd!

 

I really hope this isn't becoming a popularity contest, because Mynd's gambit can't possibly have convinced an intelligent person I'm scum. If you have other reasons to think I'm scum, like Trench seems to, that's fair, but there's no way the lack of a compulsion/silence victim could convince you I'm scum.

 

All that being said, I want to stay alive but if I have to be martyred, I'll accept that to incriminate Mynd. When I'm lynched and flip Town, don't let Mynd talk you out of lynching him.

 

Purple - Unless there is a way for him to be 100% sure your are town, then why shouldn't he, he would be a fool. He would be a fool to believe your were town 100% without any reason.

 

Burgandy - Bad choice of words here, because his sounds more like you didn't do a night action to have it backfire on Mynd.

 

Green - If you are lynched and turn up town that doesn't mean Mynd is automatically scum. However it would be something to bear in mind

 

I can't say I liked this post from Drew, he's starting personally attack people by saying they must be fools if they think him scum. Or an intelligent person wouldn't believe him. I don't like this one bit, it sounds a little like desperation...We still have a bit of time, so I will wait and see.

 

Song - I do not think keeping someone alive because they make it interesting is a good idea. I'm not saying we should ;lynch him yet, but that isn't a good thing to say. If Mynd is innocent and you are mafia it makes it look like you want him around to sow all this stuff he does because we must be way off track with stuff that we are talking about, so hey no wonder you might want to keep him around. As Drew said , this isn't a popularity contest

 

the other thing that stood out was Nyn not knowing what Aemon viewed Curt as. It she had been reading she would have easily known, Maybe she isn't really paying attention or something else. But It's worth bearing in mind.

Posted

Looted & Stole are the same thing. It would be different if you were given the item by someone else, but it was looted. If I had such an item, I would have made sure it fell into the hands of the one player I could trust.

Posted

the other thing that stood out was Nyn not knowing what Aemon viewed Curt as. It she had been reading she would have easily known, Maybe she isn't really paying attention or something else. But It's worth bearing in mind.

 

I'm afraid the reason behind that was more from the dumb variety lol. At first I thought Aemon meant to prove he was indeed a finder and it seemed odd to me that he sat there, leaving us guessing what he viewed Curt to be. I thought he was insinuating that he read him as mafia. Then I FINALLY realized he was trying to prove that he was a NAIVE finder... aka that he reads everyone as innocent... and then the realization sunk in that him telling us to guess what he read him as was just a sarcastic remark and that his read was once again innocent, like all his previous reads.

 

*hangs head in shame* I suck, I know :P

 

 

 

 

Nyn

Posted

Both Drew and CurtDragon are trying to downplay their reactions now. That's why I love the rule in mafia that you cannot go back and edit your posts. The evidence is right there! I'd love to see their mafia QT discussing what they are going to say next as this has clearly blown up in their faces.

 

I'm pretty confident in either lynch, but if Drew is indeed the compulsion player, we should lynch him first.

Posted

After reread, the past arguments against Drew seem to stand well enough. I'm going to go ahead and Vote Drew. I'd also like to note that I'll be back to my regularly scheduled irritating of all of you on Wednesday.

Posted

What I meant talya is he's useful for inspiring conversation. He's one of the more active players and he always stirs the hornets nest.

 

Well I'm stirring the nest right now, aren't I? :rolleyes:

 

I can definetly get behind a lynch on Drew. Right now I am inclined to believe Mynd is town. Mynd says he blocked Drew and now there is no compulsed player. It could be a Mafia gambit to get Drew lynched, but Drew has pinged me as scum for awhile now. I cased him on day 3 when we lynched Blackhoof, I fingered him as scum as well for voting patterns. When Vam claimed dragon he tried to push us into a Vambram lynch, if Drew is scum he would have known Vam was not on his team, once the momentum switched to Blackhoof. Drew only came in on the vote late once it was assured Black would be lynched.

 

From my early suspicions, coupled with the gambit Mynd played by blocking Drew last night. I can Vote Drew confidently now.

 

I've never played with any of you, but Trench, you can't be fool enough to think I must be scum because there's no silence/compulsion victim. How many times has Mynd played? How could he NOT know it would have been a horrible move from a townie to say who he roleblocked and why? I've only played a few games and I can figure that out. Are you seriously buying that?

 

 

 

Drew I am not blindly folowing you because of Mynd. I have been suspicious of you since day 1. You tried to divert votes off of David and jumped on the Bandwagon one it was moving. You pushed for vites on Vam day 3. I make a case for 3 people you being one of them. You barely even defended your self, but it was fairly obvious if one of the 3 I FOS'd was gonna be lynched it would have been Blackhoof. Now mynd plays this gambit and you go into agressive defense mode, trying to play the Martyr. All this together is why I voted for you. Mynds play style is obviously a little fast and loose. but its a good style. You throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and you see what sticks, it gives a the players a broad view so they can choose where to focus. That dosen't mean I am not coming my own conclussions before voting.

Posted

Looted & Stole are the same thing. It would be different if you were given the item by someone else, but it was looted. If I had such an item, I would have made sure it fell into the hands of the one player I could trust.

Perhaps, since I did vote on the wrongful hanging. However theft and loot are different. Looting involves someone who is already dead. theft involves someone who is alive

 

Both Drew and CurtDragon are trying to downplay their reactions now. That's why I love the rule in mafia that you cannot go back and edit your posts. The evidence is right there! I'd love to see their mafia QT discussing what they are going to say next as this has clearly blown up in their faces.

 

I'm pretty confident in either lynch, but if Drew is indeed the compulsion player, we should lynch him first.

That's nice. I'm glad you can go back and read what my response was. Again and for about the 5th time why is asking a question is an overreaction

Posted

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it wasn't that you were pointing out facts. Pointing out facts is all well and good. The reason why I chose to go after you, and why I still strongly suspect you, is because you were pointing out facts in a way that seemed like an attempt to discredit other players. That always sets of my Scum Klaxon.

Posted

CurtDragon, you are acting like a mafia player who already knows who is innocent and who isn't. Scumhunters don't trust anyone while you don't trust only one player, the one who first put your name up as a possible scum. Paranoia will destroy-ya!

 

Answer me this, wouldn't you at least agree that Drew's reaction in "spoiling" my gambit with the powerblock at least partially scummy if not completely? The fact that you ignore anyone else as a possibility is what makes you scum.

Posted

Bgrishinko thought he needed to review Mynd throughout the game:

 

Your vote on me for agreeing with you is noted and has more substance to its logic than most else I've read in these dozen pages of palblam. Well done Quibby, you are having me believe you are innocent.

 

Now then....lets look close at who is voting for who.....Songs has a double vote it seems on Vabram? Or is there a gray man among us unseen?

 

Vote count

 

Ed (1): bgrishinko

Vambram (2): Song

Song (2): blackhoof, Tigraine

Blackhoof (2): play3r, Mynd

Ahmoondah (1): red

Amadine (1): virtuhall

Play3r (1): nyn

TMD (1): Thorkin

Aemon (2): alannalynn, paetric

Quibby (2): Ahmoondah, David Hermes

David Hermes (1): Locke

Red (1): Aemon

Mynd (1): Quibby

 

With 37 alive, it takes 19 to lynch. Hurry up.

 

There are quite a few pairs on this, but no clear bandwagon yet. Perhaps the Darkfriends are doing their best to try and appear innocent. Well, I think at least one of them has unknowingly outed herself. I will wait to see what she says next, but she has already proven she isn't innocent.

 

Bg couldn't remember this ever being followed up on. Fear mongering.

 

 

 

Mynd have you not read any of the game at all? lol

 

Honestly? No......

 

 

but I don't need to when the scum are so obvious!

 

Then who?

 

 

Vote count

 

Song (1): Tigraine

Amadine (1): virtuhall

TMD (1): Thorkin

Aemon (1): paetric

David Hermes (20): Locke, trench, Aust, Ahmoondah, bgrishinko, alannalynn, Red, Adella, Drew, Song, keyholder, Nyn, Alanna, player, Blackhoof, Amadine, Aemon, Vambram, paetric

Red (4): Verbal, David Hermes, Mynd, TMD

Mynd (1): Quibby

 

I believe this is correct.

 

Did not vote for David. Was his obvious scum Red/Moiraine?

 

 

 

Quibs, my good man (and I use the term loosely), I am simply testing the waters to see what would happen if I said those words. The chances of me indeed being the true Dragon Reborn are the same as an Ogier being Captain of the Guard. As of yet, I have not received any word from the Mod who turns the wheel, so I guess my words were in vein.

 

In reference to his Dragon claim - Nothing happened.

 

 

 

Another thought is that Songs, Aust, and Kwom are all scum and lying liars who lie!

 

Songs and Aust were both innocent. This was probably just an over reaction though.

 

 

 

Verbal is just one vote, and by not making an arguement, methinks we have a novice in the role of Doyle. I must say that in the Heroes game, Doyle was played beyond my expectations and it is unfortunate that he didn't win the game. Naeann can confirm that compulsion, or mind control, or the like, cannot control every aspect of one's actions. Verbal being uncharacteristically Verbal, even after being called out on it, makes a perfect case for compulsion.

 

I can't believe that out of everyone who targeted Aemon and/or Red last night that there isn't at least one that has its source from the Dark One. I believe Ed is innocent. I believe Songs. I'm lukewarm on Kwom, but it makes sense. Quibby and Piano?

 

unvote (just in case)

 

Vote DaPianoPlay3r

 

Anyone got a better target?

 

 

Rally's the troops.

 

Honestly, in short, Mynd did a lot of pushing for the lynch on Player, and then got really quiet towards the end. That, coupled with the fact that he was very quiet day 1 and then started posting once Red called him out on it... I'm good on a Mynd lynch.

 

Funny, I don't recall pushing a lynch on anyone. I also don't remember being quiet in a 30 person game was considered scummy. There have been major events in this game already, and me being quiet was not one of them.

 

Mynd was indeed a front runner and the spark on the Player lynch bandwagon.

 

 

As BG thought about Red's arguments about Mynd, he felt more and more convinced of Mynd's overall scumminess. Too much about what he said didn't add up. Also, as BG listened to the arguments being thrown about, Aemon's name continued to be brought up. It does seem probable that the darkfriends would compel an innocent to vote for a darkfriend as a form of deceit and therefore command Aemon to vote Mynd. The naive would automatically assume the target to be innocent, therefore assume Mynd's innocence. But BG was not convinced, for he had obtained information that may prove Aemon's innocence and makes Mynd's insistence to lynch the compulsed all the more scummy.

Essentially, BG's logic is a variation of my own, just the names changed. If my logic makes me scummy, then BG would be scummy as well. Also, am I insisting on lynching the compulsed or am I asking for a debate? I hardly would say I am demanding we lynch Verbal or Aemon, but I do think one or the other is the smart move still.

 

BG pondered the validity of this statement, Then he suddenly remembered something else that Mynd had said earlier:

Now, I will say that my innocence should not be assumed by anything. As we all know, in the game of mafia, no one is innocent until proven otherwise; however, the most effective lynches are those when we go with 1) the most likely scum and 2) the one who would grant us the most information post lynch.

 

A lynch on Aemon might actually make more sense. If he flips innocent, then it not only suggests I am as well, but also Verbal too. Would you trade the life of one innocent player to confirm two others? I would. If he flips scum, then we know who to lynch next. (Spoiler Alert: Verbal)

 

 

Although there wasn't an outright demand to lynch Verbal or Aemon, BG thought the intention was the same. It seemed that Mynd was trying to influence the masses that obviously Verbal must go if Aemon goes, which made no sense. Or simply that no matter what, the information gained from killing Aemon (a finder and proclaimed DR) would be more benifial than keeping him around. How could this be? Bg wondered. Also, BG thought that his own argument was not the same as Mynds. BG argued that in the current situation, it is impossible to know by lynching a compulsed person what the orientation of another was. It seemed to him that any of the following scenarios was just as likely:

 

Verbal votes Aemon = Scum/Scum? Scum/Innocent? Innocent/Scum? Innocent/Innocent?

 

 

He did not understand why one ranks over another. Of course this applied to Aemon votes Mynd as well. He thought that, Mynd, as the focus of today's compulsion (apparently) would understand this and not try to mislead the town into confusion thinking this was not true.

 

BG had debated when to share this information, but now feels that it can only help the town to reveal what he had uncovered. As the last night's dawn came and Perrin was found dead, few were nearby when the deed was committed. Bgrishinko just happened to be wandering by when he came upon Perrin's body. In the hopes of preventing Darkfriends from looting the precious items that Perrin may have had, BG decided to do it first.

 

Upon Song/Perrin's body, BG found the one and only Vora Sa'angreal. Bgrishinko reminded the town of what had happend previously with this item. Aemon had stolen this item during Night 1. He came forth and talked about it openly explaining it's purpose and uses. Because the Sa'angreal was useless to Aemon he told the town that he was planning on gifting it to someone else that he believed to be innocent and could make good use of it. As he lifted the Sa'angreal, he realized that Aemon must have gifted the item to Perrin. If Aemon were Scum, he would have never gifted this particular item to Song as an innocent.

On the surface, this makes a lot of sense....except....the only people who know who is innocent for sure are the mafia. Would it be possible for the mafia to give the (whatever) to someone they know is innocent and then whack said innocent to get it back? What happens again when someone is whacked by the mafia? Do they get the items because they submitted the night kill? Aemon gave the (whatever) to Songs long before it was common understanding that she was innocent. I'm not buying this.

 

Bgrishinko then wondered about the incredibly odd logic of what Mynd said here, especially when Aemon has claimed to be a finder. That power alone gave him the ability to know who is innocent for sure. If the Darkfriends already had the Sa'angreal, why would they need to give it to someone and give them a temporary advantage, then whack them to get it back when they had it in the first place? He realized as well that Mynd obviously missed the Creator's statement that all dead people could be searched for items upon the announcement of their death. BG wondered if maybe Mynd really DID know that, and in an effort to post blame, hinted that BG was Darkfriend in his ability to claim the item. Scummy indeed.

 

5) Town-oriented players argue the facts, they don't leap to discredit those who simply doubt their claims. They certainly don't vote because they disagree.

 

Where am I wrong here?

 

 

Bgrishinko pondered this statement and felt bothered by it. At first it seemed to be a logical truth, but he didn't like Mynd telling him and everyone else how certain players must behave. BG believed that each person had their own strategy and played the game differently. Also, if this had always been true, then finding a Darkfriend would be incredibly easy. No, BG believed that the Darkfriends played the game the same as the townsfolk only in reverse. The strategies for pointing blame were not all that different for a town's person than a Darkfriend. A Darkfriend would also argue facts. A town's person needs to be suspicious of someone who doubts their claims, for a Darkfriend would indeed spread doubt about a true claim. They would most certainly vote for those that disagree, because it makes more sense than voting for those that do agree.

 

Mynd had not eased BG's mind one bit.

 

A reminder of Mynd's flawed logic.

 

 

 

 

Even after viewing Mynd as innocent last night, I think we should lynch him because he seems scummy.

 

The kink in the vote. Bg believes Godfather role clears this up.

 

 

 

 

Vote count:

 

Blackhoof (16): bg, quibby, red, trench, keyholder, locke, verbal, nae, adella, curtdragon, drew, amadine, alanna, ahmoondah, kwom

Mynd (1): Aemon

Vambram (1): Mynd

 

I will try to write a short scene from my phone.

 

Did not vote Black.

 

 

Also, it has been revealed to m e that a player whose name begins with the letter "A" is aligned with the Dark One!

 

Mynd's special 3 questions item that only had 1 question and hasn't shown any validity to this point.

 

 

 

 

You're not joking, right Mynd?

 

Cause one person on that list I've been fairly suspicious of the entire game, though not enough to say much.

 

I am dead serious. I'm feeling like Aeomon is on the lower end of the possible scum scale; however there are a couple A's that I am waiting to hear from on Day 3. There is one who has been trying to casually lead lynches without fully committing to them. Looking back at the Vambram/Blackhoof deal, I'm pretty sure we could nail another one in the morning.

 

Are you pondering what I am pondering, Pinky?

 

Fear Mongering.

Posted

Part 2:

 

Adella

 

There she is. I was waiting for this one. "Great job for the HEALER!!!" she posts, when it is obvious to everyone that the mafia was unsuccessful in their night kill. What a blatant attempt at trying desperately to look innocent. She knew Blackhoof was mafia and did what she could to divert the lynch off him; however, she is trying to play it off like that was not her intention.

 

You see....sometimes it isn't a healer protecting a target, but someone else blocking a kill. Suppose Adella was role-blocked last night? And then there isn't a kill?

 

This is a safe lynch, folks. Oh and look at that.....Adella's name begins with A. Watch now for her mafia friends to come to her defense.

 

BTW, I tried to steal from Red last night, but upon re-reading my PM, it didn't necessarily say that the message was about her.

Baseless accusation on Adella. And to discredit anyone who supports her.

 

 

Trench (and all), the A claim by itself is ridiculous. Without being modkilled, let's assume that one could ask three questions and get answers, but not necessarily what you expect. For example if you ask a snake "Who is Mafia?" you might get "Someone whose name begins with A" as a response. Still, by itself, the "begins with the letter A" doesn't hold much water. But consider it with these other pieces of info....

 

Adella was trying hard to push us off the Blackhoof lynch.

 

Read Adella's post again. She is desperately trying to look innocent and she is assuming that the healer was successful because her kill did not go through. It is possible that she was roleblocked last night and unable to complete her kill.

 

I am telling you all. Adella will be a safe lynch.

 

...and Mynd thinks Bgstinko should stop trying to be cute with is posts and start actually playing the game.

 

Heavy insistence that no matter what Adella is a good lynch.

 

 

For the sake of odds and logic, let's assume BG and Adella are telling the truth. Unvote

 

Occam's Razor (I prefer Gilette Quatro) would suggest that the Mafia have not been the ones doing as much of the accusing as the others. I can only go by what info I get due to the nature of my character. This is what I know, where can we go from here?

 

There could be certain artifacts in the game, some of you may have experienced it before, where you can ask three questions to some snakelike people and get three responses, though they may not be what you want. For example, suppose you asked "Who is mafia?" and the reply was something like "Someone whose name begins with the letter A" wouldn't be much to go on by itself, but it does produce a list of people we can narrow down.

 

Players who begin with the letter A (7): Aust, Amoondah, Alanna, AJ(alannalynn), Aemon, Amadine, Adella

 

With the whole mess with the compulsion, Red, and the finder stuff, I think we can all agree that Aemon is town. Aust and his silencing make him less likely to be scum and BG vouches for Adella being on a mason team with him. That leaves Amoondah, AJ, and Amadine if we are to go with logic and the odds and believe everyone else. From my casing, I've read little from Amadine, AJ is acting a-typical but was quick to point out her name was missing from the list of A's, and Amoondah has been "going with the flow" - quick to vote but not providing solid reasoning.

 

Right now, I'd say we lynch Amoondah.

 

Thoughts?

 

After the Adella thing didn't pan out. Went straight to Ahmoondah. Sure, Going with the Flow was a problem for Moon, but it made her an easy target for a bandwagon.

 

 

Being objective as much as I can, we can eliminate Myndrunner (for now) based on Aemon's claim for viewing me. Sure, he could be lying, I could be a Mafia Godfeather or what have you, but remember, in this instance, we are assuming that everything stated publicly is the truth. We can always check for liars later on in the game, but right now, we are only eliminating the unliklies.

 

Let's also assume (for the moment) that Vambram is innocent, otherwise it would have been foolish to claim to be the Dragon Reborn when he did considering the building lynch on Blackhoof and that Aemon has made such a claim already.

 

That leaves us with a much shorter, and much more manageable list of people to consider for lynch:

 

Amoondah

AJ (alannalynn)

Amadine

Krak

keyholder

Locke

drewoftherushes

CurtDragon

Naeann 2.0

trench

killuliu

dapianoplay3r 2.0

Nyn

 

While I think I know who the third Mason is based on his responses, I am willing to still consider a lynch on anyone above. Throw in the whole mess with a player whose name begins with A, I think Amoondah, AJ, or Amadine would be the safest bet. Thoughts now?

why are there no reasons on why these people are on the "bad" list? yet you give reasons on why people should be excluded from a lynch?

 

I am just wondering why the attention is drawn away from all the potential lynches of the previous nights.

Mynd was on the list, as was Vambram yet both are somehow cleared once the night is over

 

I have my eyes on Mynd as I see this is more of his redirection as we have seen on earlier days.

 

I find his "It has been revealed to me..." a bit odd. Just today, where have your revelations been all along?

 

Curt, those are the people left over who have nothing to support their pro-town alignment. Why are you overreacting in such a way?

 

Bgrishinko presented the infamous overreaction from CurtDragon. BG thought that it sounded like Curt was just curious as to why we could outline the innocent, but not have suspicious behavior outlined as well. Curt, it seemed, was simply trying to draw attention back to previous evidence that Mynd was wandering away from and redirecting attentions. Mynd's comment in bold was overreacting to Curt's comment and fishing for comments that could sound scummy. When someone is put on the defensive, it is easy to sound like scum.

 

 

*le sigh*

 

There is an art to catching scum. Just using logic isn't enough because they can then turn that very logic against you. Sometimes you have to be very creative, but in a game of this size, allow me to play the narrator on Pushing Daisies.

 

The facts are these:

 

When Vambram announced in the thread that he received an item for claiming to be The Dragon Reborn, Myndrunner quickly submitted his thief play to Womby and began to post questions to Vambram hoping he would answer. Watching BG among others also post immediately behind him lead Mynd to believe that others had also submitted the same thief claim and the hunt was on. All can see the cascade of short, quick posts one behind the other in this very thread. Mynd posted another question to Vambram, enticing him to respond, and before he could post again, he was notified by the Mod that he was now silenced and could not post again until the conclusion of Day 4.

 

As it happens, Mynd's last question was responded immediately by Vambram, causing the thief play to go through. Proof that the thief play did not cause the silencing was in the fact that the Mod Womby was too lazy to check to see if such a thief play was even successful. The Mod even asked people to submit their proof of thief plays at the conclusion of Day 4, which was when Mynd finally got the info of the item he had stolen.

 

At the turn of Day 4 to Night 4, Mynd was informed at how valuable the item was that he discovered. It was in fact a seal to the Dark One's chamber and could be broken in a way that Myndrunner dared not tell. Mynd dared not risk revealing this info while the seal remained in his hands so he decided he should gift it to the one player he felt he could trust the most at this point. It wasn't until the item was well in the hands of this other player that Mynd finally revealed what had happened.

 

Believing one of the competitors for Vambram's item to be the very one who silenced Myndrunner, he decided to devise a logic trap to trick the culprit into confessing. A straight reveal would be an option, but it would not lure the culprit out in the open. Unfortunately, Red's sledgehammer logic forced the full reveal from Mynd so that further confusion would not contaminate the minds of the rest of the town. So, instead of setting a trap of logic, Mynd decided to play mafia in a way he hadn't played in a long time....

 

...straightforward.

 

So, BG, if you are truly town and a mason and so forth, why do you have the power to silence players?

 

Spoke in bandwagon attention getting language. Didn't review the facts. BG later proved his logic bad once again.

 

 

...but unlike my accusers, I am leading no one in this. I am merely presenting options. That's all I have been doing.

 

Correction: that's what you are doing now. Before, you were leading the charge. Like I said, a mid-game style shift.

 

Bg approves this message.

 

 

I have blocked the player that I believe is among the mafia, which could block the night kill but also should block either the compulsion or the silencing. If no one demonstrates either tomorrow, then I'm pretty sure we can have a safe lynch.

 

Details tomorrow...

 

Bg agreed with those people who find this odd. The fact Mynd announced this at night means that A) the compulsion blocker/silencer may not have even sent in a request yet and then didn't as a result. Therefore ensuring whoever Mynd randomly roleblocked would receive all the hate in the morning. B) He is telling the truth. He roleblocked successfully. C) Mynd is lying out of his teeth. He had never shown the ability to roleblock before and this way it would sound like the lack of compulsion would guarantee a kill on whoever he "roleblocked"

 

 

 

Ok, a couple things. First, last night I blocked Drew. If no one is under compulsion or silenced, then we likely have ourselves a mafia. Although the kill went through, it doesn't mean I blocked the one doing the killing.

 

I'm having difficulty with the whole Aemon being a naive finder. Sure, he claimed to have viewed Vam as innocent, but Vam's power was a Framer. Mine is that of a powerblocker. It doesn't make sense that both Vam and I would have such strong powers and yet Aemon's is useless. Aemon, were you sure that the innocent reading you got on Vam was actually on Vam and not redirected to someone else?

 

I think it is important to note that what was said earlier about the mafia targeting an A-list player so that it would discredit what I was told. I thought about the possibility that perhaps the Snakes meant Asmodean, a character name instead of a player, but upon review of my pm, the Snakes clearly meant a player. My guess is the mafia figured we would all come to the same conclusion in that if they nk'd an A player, it would stop us from continuing our search. I take this as a sign that we are close.

 

Have we found our compulsion victim for the day yet?

 

Blame falls to Drew. Begins to act as if his Dragon claim meant something and he got a power out of it, when previously he specifically stated it did not.

 

 

 

Wanna know a crazy fact? I don't have a name. Up until now, I didn't think it would matter but this is why I was curious if Vambram knew all along he was Taim, and if Aemon knows he is Logain. I've been scratching my....head...at trying to figure out which one I could be, but then again, I could be Myndrunner the False Dragon. (see list of false dragons)

 

One thing that the observant town-oriented player can say with certainty is that I am quite likely town. Anyone with a thesaurus would have a pretty good idea that my alignment and win condition are true if they have been paying attention.

 

We can put the whole letter A thing aside for now and concentrate on which lynch makes the most sense. Kwom Masbag has disappointed me big time, but if he is mafia, then his inactivity is a bonus to us. If he's innocent, why lynch him? unvote

 

I prefer to go after a more active player who is only reading what he wants to see in posts rather than doing any actual scum casing. He freaked out when he saw his name among 12 others as a list of possible lynches. That kind of overreaction leads me to believe that Curtdragon is not acting like a scum-hunter but more like a scum-huntee.

 

Bold = False. Again pointing out Curt's non-overreaction that Mynd himself planted the seeds and caused. Refer to BG's previous post which holds the quote.

 

 

 

I'm comfortable lynching Mynd or Curt given the arguments posted by everyone else.

It would be good to discover the validity of Aemon's arguments/

Mynd has been pinging scummy from early on, but Curt has as well.

Mynd pings me harder.

 

Vote Mynd

Why are you basing your vote on "pinging"? How does that help town. If you are going to vote me, at least present a decent argument for why. You seem to be bandwagoning behind Drew here.

 

@Drew, why are you coming after me when I voted Curt? How come you are so locked into that gambit that you are ignoring the current flow of the game? The mafia would have already submitted their night action last night without knowing who my target was, so they can't do anything about it. I find it interesting that we haven't found anyone with compulsion yet.

 

Folks, I think Drew's reaction is quite scummy. He is freaking out because I blocked him and saying that the mafia would use that to frame him. For his logic to make sense, he must believe me to be innocent. For that to make sense, he would have to be mafia himself and knows that no one will show any signs of compulsion. Besides, if you know that I am innocent, why vote for me? If you believe my role-blocking power, then you believe me to be innocent.

 

unvote curtdragon

 

vote DrewoftheRushes

 

You played a great game Drew, but we gotcha. Just curious, are you Graendel?

 

Fear Mongering. Again bandwagon inducing language.

 

Bg looked at every post Mynd had made and couldn't find one helpful thing that had been said. While Mynd helped with the Taim lynch, Taim was not town or Mafia and therefore was, to a mafia's eyes Town. All of the helpful things that Mynd claimed to have knowledge on either were based on poor logic without full facts, "revealed information" that hasn't shown any ounce of truth, or random fear mongering bandwagon inducing language with little or no facts or examples.

Posted

And finally this:

CurtDragon, you are acting like a mafia player who already knows who is innocent and who isn't. Scumhunters don't trust anyone while you don't trust only one player, the one who first put your name up as a possible scum. Paranoia will destroy-ya!

 

Answer me this, wouldn't you at least agree that Drew's reaction in "spoiling" my gambit with the powerblock at least partially scummy if not completely? The fact that you ignore anyone else as a possibility is what makes you scum.

 

BG believed that when Drew spoke of springing Mynd's trap, it was a poor choice of words spoken in frustration. BG would like Drew to explain his meaning a little better. However, BG thought he might have simply been saying that Mynd's accusation of Drew was easy to disprove with logic as Drew did in an earlier post. Sprung. Mynd once again put someone who seemed neutral in the spotlight and on the defensive, making all subsequent posts have a scummy flavor. Whoever strikes first seems to gain the majority. Mynd stroke first an all town lynches.

 

Day 1: Did NOT vote for SCUM DAVID.

Day 2: Early leader and bandwagon inducer. VOTED TOWN PIANO COP.

Day 3: Did NOT vote for SCUM BLACKHOOF.

Day 4: Created baseless bandwagon VOTED TOWN AHMOONDAH.

Day 5: Voted Taim, to mafia, appears Town. No consensus.

 

Mynd also lead attempted lynches on Adella, BG, CurtDragon (still in process), and Red.

 

 

Posted

To clear up any confusion of terms: When BG says fear mongering, it means planting the idea that someone is obviously scum without a good reason, or preparing the minds of the people for a later reveal of an "obvious" scum person.

Posted

First, AWESOME analysis, bg. Thank you for doing the work I haven't had time to do. The two posts that are the most damning to me are when Mynd starts the wagons on Player v.1 and then Ahmoondah. Mynd wasn't being too pushy about it, but he was clearly the catalyst for both of those lynches. That would have me voting for Mynd even IF there was no other evidence.

 

So, let's see. Mynd has declared himself DR, then took it back, said he had no power, now says he has a power, says he has an item that let him ask three questions, only revealed one of the questions (leading to an innocent lynch), then backed off that advice the very next day. After bg's analysis, seeing all Mynd's posts up there, I am really, really, really convinced he's mafia.

 

Look, Mynd has been a blast to play with, and I think a lot of that has to do with all these crazy claims and gambits and deceptions. It's fun to watch. But it can only last so long, and I think it's time to bring it to an end.

 

I'll also ask you to notice the people jumping on my bandwagon and/or defending Mynd right now - Nyn (who has barely posted until now when Mynd is coming under fire), Quibby (questionable message sending?), Trench (I don't have a good read on Trench other than that he's been gunning on me for no reason that I can tell) and Songs (replaced someone, not much evidence on her right now). I think lynching Mynd will go a long way towards revealing some other mafia if he flips scum, or, admittedly, town if he flips town.

 

I'll address some recent comments inside. Sorry for the long, Red-like post.

 

You see, mafia tend to fall for this trick, even players as experienced as Verbal (Christmas Mafia) and Kivam (DPR's Ctulu mafia on MJ). They are so focused on misdirection and discrediting the towines that they forget to act like a scum-hunter. Drew has been laser focused on the gambit that I made about waiting around to see who is compulsed and who isn't. All I did then was reveal who I blocked, without any statement at all or fingers pointing. We were well on our way to lynch Curt.

 

So, let me see if I have this right. Drew thinks that because I said during this day that I chose him to be blocked that the mafia, who had already sent in their actions the night before, that I am laying a trap for him. In order to follow his own logic, one must first believe that I have such a power in the first place.

 

He fell for the trap because, like a lot of maifa scum, he was more focused on the gambit and not on the casing. :biggrin:

 

Mynd is intentionally not listening to me. I DO NOT THINK MYND HAS A ROLEBLOCKING POWER. I think he made it up to frame someone, and it's amazing to me that it's working on some people.

 

Purple - Unless there is a way for him to be 100% sure your are town, then why shouldn't he, he would be a fool. He would be a fool to believe your were town 100% without any reason.

 

Burgandy - Bad choice of words here, because his sounds more like you didn't do a night action to have it backfire on Mynd.

 

Green - If you are lynched and turn up town that doesn't mean Mynd is automatically scum. However it would be something to bear in mind

 

I can't say I liked this post from Drew, he's starting personally attack people by saying they must be fools if they think him scum. Or an intelligent person wouldn't believe him. I don't like this one bit, it sounds a little like desperation...We still have a bit of time, so I will wait and see.

 

Song - I do not think keeping someone alive because they make it interesting is a good idea. I'm not saying we should ;lynch him yet, but that isn't a good thing to say. If Mynd is innocent and you are mafia it makes it look like you want him around to sow all this stuff he does because we must be way off track with stuff that we are talking about, so hey no wonder you might want to keep him around. As Drew said , this isn't a popularity contest

 

My first point that you responded to, Talya, I think you misinterpreted. I was saying that it's foolish to base my scumminess on the lack of a compulsion/silence victim. My language was a bit loaded in the post, and I apologize for that. I didn't mean it to get personal, I was just trying to illustrate how obvious Mynd's gambit is.

 

If I were lynched, I flip town, I think it's a HUGE piece of evidence against Mynd. Leading the lynch on three innocents? Looks pretty scummy to me.

 

Both Drew and CurtDragon are trying to downplay their reactions now. That's why I love the rule in mafia that you cannot go back and edit your posts. The evidence is right there! I'd love to see their mafia QT discussing what they are going to say next as this has clearly blown up in their faces.

 

I'm pretty confident in either lynch, but if Drew is indeed the compulsion player, we should lynch him first.

 

Mynd is trying to lump me and Curt together, because Curt has looked scummy before today. Clever.

 

I can definetly get behind a lynch on Drew. Right now I am inclined to believe Mynd is town. Mynd says he blocked Drew and now there is no compulsed player. It could be a Mafia gambit to get Drew lynched, but Drew has pinged me as scum for awhile now. I cased him on day 3 when we lynched Blackhoof, I fingered him as scum as well for voting patterns. When Vam claimed dragon he tried to push us into a Vambram lynch, if Drew is scum he would have known Vam was not on his team, once the momentum switched to Blackhoof. Drew only came in on the vote late once it was assured Black would be lynched.

 

From my early suspicions, coupled with the gambit Mynd played by blocking Drew last night. I can Vote Drew confidently now.

 

Drew I am not blindly folowing you because of Mynd. I have been suspicious of you since day 1. You tried to divert votes off of David and jumped on the Bandwagon one it was moving. You pushed for vites on Vam day 3. I make a case for 3 people you being one of them. You barely even defended your self, but it was fairly obvious if one of the 3 I FOS'd was gonna be lynched it would have been Blackhoof. Now mynd plays this gambit and you go into agressive defense mode, trying to play the Martyr. All this together is why I voted for you. Mynds play style is obviously a little fast and loose. but its a good style. You throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and you see what sticks, it gives a the players a broad view so they can choose where to focus. That dosen't mean I am not coming my own conclussions before voting.

 

(I kind of accidentally combined some of the stuff Trench said, so he didn't say this all at once but he said it all at some point. Sorry, hope it still makes sense)

 

So, Trench, you believe that I'm scum based at least partially on the fact that there's no compulsion/silence? Do you understand why this doesn't hold water?

 

To your other points, I came to the game late because Womby forgot to give me the link, and the David discussion had been well underway. I skimmed through, then asked why there were so many votes on David. Nobody really answered me. I read through thoroughly later.

 

If I can find them, I'll go back and cite the posts where I talk about how and why Black is scummy. My vote wasn't at the front of his lynch, but it wasn't at the end either. Let's remember who didn't vote for Blackhoof at all!

 

And yes I was a huge proponent of a Vambram lynch, because he was acting scummy, and guess what, he was a survivor, which is rarely a role you want to keep around. You can't say I'm scum for wanting to lynch Vam, because town ought to have wanted him gone just as much as town.

Posted

Good post and in response to Mynd's last post directed towards me.

You are the veteran here. This is my first game. I'm sure you or others did not have any "Mafia" (the game, so that you cant later say that I am on the mafia because I said this) training. I am only going by what I know of the game. 2 teams one bad one good. Good dies bad wins. Bad dies good wins.

 

Bad knows all the good or rather who isnt bad. The good know nothing except what they can do.

 

Being that I am good I don't know who else is or what they can do except what others say they can do or based on actions.

I have good feelings about 2 players bad feelings about one and that is all I am certain of.

So if I am wrong for focusing on helping those I believe are good and focusing on the bad then I am wrong. If I am wrong how else do you win? How many can be lynched in one night? One. If you are working on a puzzle do you sit and stare at the part you don't know or work towards what you perceive as the correct answer.

Posted

And finally this:

CurtDragon, you are acting like a mafia player who already knows who is innocent and who isn't. Scumhunters don't trust anyone while you don't trust only one player, the one who first put your name up as a possible scum. Paranoia will destroy-ya!

 

Answer me this, wouldn't you at least agree that Drew's reaction in "spoiling" my gambit with the powerblock at least partially scummy if not completely? The fact that you ignore anyone else as a possibility is what makes you scum.

 

BG believed that when Drew spoke of springing Mynd's trap, it was a poor choice of words spoken in frustration. BG would like Drew to explain his meaning a little better. However, BG thought he might have simply been saying that Mynd's accusation of Drew was easy to disprove with logic as Drew did in an earlier post. Sprung. Mynd once again put someone who seemed neutral in the spotlight and on the defensive, making all subsequent posts have a scummy flavor. Whoever strikes first seems to gain the majority. Mynd stroke first an all town lynches.

 

Day 1: Did NOT vote for SCUM DAVID.

Day 2: Early leader and bandwagon inducer. VOTED TOWN PIANO COP.

Day 3: Did NOT vote for SCUM BLACKHOOF.

Day 4: Created baseless bandwagon VOTED TOWN AHMOONDAH.

Day 5: Voted Taim, to mafia, appears Town. No consensus.

 

Mynd also lead attempted lynches on Adella, BG, CurtDragon (still in process), and Red.

 

BG, you're exactly right. I saw what Mynd was trying to do by saying he had roleblocked me, and so I called him on it. It was a trap, and I was trying to reveal the trap, which I hope I did. That's what I meant when I said I "sprung" it. It was a poor choice of words.

 

But this evidence is...overwhelming.

 

Everyone remember that the deadline is TUESDAY this week. We lost Moiraine to a random lynch, let's not let Mynd slip through because we miss the deadline again.

Posted

Drew loves that BG did all of the work so he doesn't have to. Mafia discredit, they don't case.

 

Mynd wonders what BG's casing of Drew and Curtdragon would look like if he wasn't so laser-focused on one person.

 

Remember, mafia work in tandem. They are a team, not one person. Everything I have done has been on my own.

Posted

Drew loves that BG did all of the work so he doesn't have to. Mafia discredit, they don't case.

 

Mynd wonders what BG's casing of Drew and Curtdragon would look like if he wasn't so laser-focused on one person.

 

Remember, mafia work in tandem. They are a team, not one person. Everything I have done has been on my own.

 

Bg's goal wasn't to analyze Curt or Drew. He never said anything about their innocence. That may have to be done at another time. Mynd is again telling people how to play the game. Each person has their own style. Mynd should not tell the town what to do and how to act. It creates pre-conceived notions that Mynd can then try to build off of and use to fear monger. "Mafia discredit, they don't case." then later, "Look, so-and-so is discrediting! Must be Scum!"

 

Mafia is a team, true. Maybe this is why it has been so easy for Mynd to get Bandwagons on those he suspects who don't have the proof or logic to fight back.

Posted

I find this last post to be quite insulting to the rest of the players in the game. BG is essentially saying that people are blindly following me instead of making up their own minds and following their own logic. Last time I checked, we have a number of players with a number of theories, not all of them agreeing with me and none have written me off completely as innocent. That's good scum-hunting.

 

It takes more than one player to reach a majority and all I have been doing is casing suspects, poking them, and presenting options. Unlike BG, I have been looking at every player in the game, even the inactive ones, looking for signs of scum. BG, Drew, and Curt are only focused on one player because I am seen as a threat.

 

I will not insult everyone's intelligence by saying "what happens when I flip innocent?" therefore causing a WIFOM of epic proportions. In my opinion, CurtDragon is acting paranoid, Drew overreacted and ruined my gambit, and BG is trying to distract us from the Drew lynch.

 

The only thing that gives me pause right now is BG's motivation. If Drew is his third mason member, then he probably should just come out and say it instead of leading a lynch on his accuser. It doesn't make me scum to accuse him and right now we need as much information as possible.

 

BG, is Drew your third mason member?

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