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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Demandred


Terez
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Many of the "mysteries" in this series have really been a process of elimination so in that sense I would agree that Dem = Roderan makes a kind of sense and seems to be the only good option left. That said, I think Dem in Marundy is simply too much of a let down to be seriously considered.

 

Having a second Seanchan army gateway in or Isle of Madmen or Sharans or 10million trollocs ported in from a mirror world would be much more interesting and dramatic. So I am rooting for something like that.

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We'll probably all laugh so hard (or cry so hard) when we'll have a Demandred PoV in aMoL prologue. He'll very casually think about all those months doing this and that ... pretty much the same way that Osangar thought about those months posing as Dashiva.

 

One old pet theories of mine was that Demmy was posing as General Galgan. Has this been destroyed ? (EDIT: Galgan isn't seen until KoD, and I don't remember seeing him in ToM either. We briefly see him in Tuon audience chamber in tGS, and that's about all I remember).

Edited by Aquarius
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We'll probably all laugh so hard (or cry so hard) when we'll have a Demandred PoV in aMoL prologue. He'll very casually think about all those months doing this and that ... pretty much the same way that Osangar thought about those months posing as Dashiva.

 

One old pet theories of mine was that Demmy was posing as General Galgan. Has this been destroyed ? (EDIT: Galgan isn't seen until KoD, and I don't remember seeing him in ToM either. We briefly see him in Tuon audience chamber in tGS, and that's about all I remember).

Read the article linked in the OP. :wink: Also, he was in TOM.

Edited by Terez
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We'll probably all laugh so hard (or cry so hard) when we'll have a Demandred PoV in aMoL prologue. He'll very casually think about all those months doing this and that ... pretty much the same way that Osangar thought about those months posing as Dashiva.

 

One old pet theories of mine was that Demmy was posing as General Galgan. Has this been destroyed ? (EDIT: Galgan isn't seen until KoD, and I don't remember seeing him in ToM either. We briefly see him in Tuon audience chamber in tGS, and that's about all I remember).

 

 

Terez already covered it, but it was a very good theory till BS ruined it all, the bastard :biggrin:

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Terez already covered it, but it was a very good theory till BS ruined it all, the bastard :biggrin:

Yes :)

The Galgan thing was an afterthought when I wrote it. My point was that it would be revealed in a very unimpressive way just like Greandal=Asmo's killer or Osangar = Dashiva.

 

If Demmy wasn't seen in KoD, nor in ToM, and as Terez says probably not in tGS (very nice article, by the way !), it strongly increases Roedran's probability as the culprit, if culprit there is. But just like when Danelle was revealed as Messaana, the reaction will be "meh, yeah we knew it, move along BS..."

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My point was that it would be revealed in a very unimpressive way just like Greandal=Asmo's killer or Osangar = Dashiva.

[...]

But just like when Danelle was revealed as Messaana, the reaction will be "meh, yeah we knew it, move along BS..."

Actually, I like the way that all of these points were revealed. It brought me endless joy that all those people who thought Graendal uninformed regarding Mesaana's identity (as an AS) have been proven wrong.

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My point was that it would be revealed in a very unimpressive way just like Greandal=Asmo's killer or Osangar = Dashiva.

I thought the dashiva reveal was quite cool, actually! Having a nutty forsaken with you all that time. I'm not sure if Rand ever even considered it (although the way he picked Dashiva out of the crowd made it seem like maybe he did). But the greandal one was terrible (a mere footnote in the glossary).

 

As for Demandred, yes his location is one of the few remaining grand mysteries. I am worried that no answer will be good enough now. Prob the best reveal I have seen in the series was Verin = darkfriend hunter (I had seen theories about that but never entirely been convinced).

 

I reckon the authors are lying, and demandred is cenn buie :myrddraal:

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My point was that it would be revealed in a very unimpressive way just like Greandal=Asmo's killer or Osangar = Dashiva.

I thought the dashiva reveal was quite cool, actually! Having a nutty forsaken with you all that time. I'm not sure if Rand ever even considered it (although the way he picked Dashiva out of the crowd made it seem like maybe he did). But the greandal one was terrible (a mere footnote in the glossary).

 

As for Demandred, yes his location is one of the few remaining grand mysteries. I am worried that no answer will be good enough now. Prob the best reveal I have seen in the series was Verin = darkfriend hunter (I had seen theories about that but never entirely been convinced).

 

I reckon the authors are lying, and demandred is cenn buie :myrddraal:

It would be the perfect disguise!

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But the greandal one was terrible (a mere footnote in the glossary).

Not this again...

People, Graendal's involvement in Asmodean's death wasn't revealed in the glossary. It was entered in it (which was probably a mistake, seeing as how it spoiled a considerable number of people, and made others believe that it was the only place in the book where this fact was revealed), but the actual reveal was hinted at the beginning (Moridin mentioned Graendal's made a habit of killing her fellow FS) and confirem by Shaidar Haran (the three FS 'deaths' she was supposedly responsible for are Asmodean's, Aran'gar's and Mesaana's).

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But the greandal one was terrible (a mere footnote in the glossary).

Not this again...

People, Graendal's involvement in Asmodean's death wasn't revealed in the glossary. It was entered in it (which was probably a mistake, seeing as how it spoiled a considerable number of people, and made others believe that it was the only place in the book where this fact was revealed), but the actual reveal was hinted at the beginning (Moridin mentioned Graendal's made a habit of killing her fellow FS) and confirem by Shaidar Haran (the three FS 'deaths' she was supposedly responsible for are Asmodean's, Aran'gar's and Mesaana's).

Another clue I missed which Dida/FelixPax pointed out - we saw Alteima in Graendal's cave before she even went to talk to Moridin. Big clue there. She wasn't named, but the description clearly matched Alteima.

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I very much doubt Roedran is Demandrred. He may be a proxy, but not the man himself.

 

Murandy's army is too small to be a threat to the surrounding powers: the Seanchan, Andor and Illian. Talmanes said that he moved the Band when Roedran's army was large enough to threaten them. That would put it at 35-40,000. 50,000 would be the very most.

 

As the lines are starting to be drawn, there are basically three factions: Rand, the Seanchan, and the Shadow. It is unlikely that an entire army would be willing to fight alongside Shadowspawn. We know that a Forsaken can induce an army to fight against another nation's forces (Rahvin and Cairhien. Sammael and Tear/Cairhien/Aiel and the proclaimed Dragon Reborn), but Murandy is just too small to resist those large powers.

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I very much doubt Roedran is Demandrred. He may be a proxy, but not the man himself.

 

Murandy's army is too small to be a threat to the surrounding powers: the Seanchan, Andor and Illian. Talmanes said that he moved the Band when Roedran's army was large enough to threaten them. That would put it at 35-40,000. 50,000 would be the very most.

 

As the lines are starting to be drawn, there are basically three factions: Rand, the Seanchan, and the Shadow. It is unlikely that an entire army would be willing to fight alongside Shadowspawn. We know that a Forsaken can induce an army to fight against another nation's forces (Rahvin and Cairhien. Sammael and Tear/Cairhien/Aiel and the proclaimed Dragon Reborn), but Murandy is just too small to resist those large powers.

they dont have to fight alongside with shadowspawn, they could strike into illian seanchan controlled lands andor (didnt think of andor before but it could provide another interesting bit of an external invasion of andor). Plus you dont have to defeat an enemy army, all you have to do is demoralize them. And start destroying a mans home and family, he will desert his army to go home and defend what can be defended, that is the most demoralizing thing there is.

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I very much doubt Roedran is Demandrred. He may be a proxy, but not the man himself.

 

Murandy's army is too small to be a threat to the surrounding powers: the Seanchan, Andor and Illian. Talmanes said that he moved the Band when Roedran's army was large enough to threaten them. That would put it at 35-40,000. 50,000 would be the very most.

 

As the lines are starting to be drawn, there are basically three factions: Rand, the Seanchan, and the Shadow. It is unlikely that an entire army would be willing to fight alongside Shadowspawn. We know that a Forsaken can induce an army to fight against another nation's forces (Rahvin and Cairhien. Sammael and Tear/Cairhien/Aiel and the proclaimed Dragon Reborn), but Murandy is just too small to resist those large powers.

they dont have to fight alongside with shadowspawn, they could strike into illian seanchan controlled lands andor (didnt think of andor before but it could provide another interesting bit of an external invasion of andor). Plus you dont have to defeat an enemy army, all you have to do is demoralize them. And start destroying a mans home and family, he will desert his army to go home and defend what can be defended, that is the most demoralizing thing there is.

 

And why would they do that? Attacking the seanchan or the dragon reborn isn't going to be something the murandians will agree to doing.

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But the greandal one was terrible (a mere footnote in the glossary).

Not this again...

People, Graendal's involvement in Asmodean's death wasn't revealed in the glossary. It was entered in it (which was probably a mistake, seeing as how it spoiled a considerable number of people, and made others believe that it was the only place in the book where this fact was revealed), but the actual reveal was hinted at the beginning (Moridin mentioned Graendal's made a habit of killing her fellow FS) and confirem by Shaidar Haran (the three FS 'deaths' she was supposedly responsible for are Asmodean's, Aran'gar's and Mesaana's).

Another clue I missed which Dida/FelixPax pointed out - we saw Alteima in Graendal's cave before she even went to talk to Moridin. Big clue there. She wasn't named, but the description clearly matched Alteima.

 

Amazing what you can sometimes uncover in Dida/Felix's ramblings if you are willing to sift through the dross isn't it?

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they wuold agree to attack andor, since murandy has been having lots of disputes with them. as for the others, I am sure they could find reason

 

On the eve of the Last Battle, against Andor which is allied to Cairhien, and was occupied by the dragon reborn not long ago? Not to mention there's the BT in Andor which is going to dissuade people. Murandy would have to be completely unaware of what's going on in the world at that moment to make the decision to attack a much stronger nation. Already in times of peace it's unlikely they would attack Andor full on without allies. And trollocs wouldn't be allies.

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they wuold agree to attack andor, since murandy has been having lots of disputes with them. as for the others, I am sure they could find reason

 

On the eve of the Last Battle, against Andor which is allied to Cairhien, and was occupied by the dragon reborn not long ago? Not to mention there's the BT in Andor which is going to dissuade people. Murandy would have to be completely unaware of what's going on in the world at that moment to make the decision to attack a much stronger nation. Already in times of peace it's unlikely they would attack Andor full on without allies. And trollocs wouldn't be allies.

they may not know the full picture.

 

What the for sure know is that andor just went through a civil war (succession whatever), because the dragon reborn pulled out and the new queen didnt want to be shown to rely too much on him, they dont know about the andor+cairhein thing yet since it literally just happened.

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they wuold agree to attack andor, since murandy has been having lots of disputes with them. as for the others, I am sure they could find reason

 

On the eve of the Last Battle, against Andor which is allied to Cairhien, and was occupied by the dragon reborn not long ago? Not to mention there's the BT in Andor which is going to dissuade people. Murandy would have to be completely unaware of what's going on in the world at that moment to make the decision to attack a much stronger nation. Already in times of peace it's unlikely they would attack Andor full on without allies. And trollocs wouldn't be allies.

they may not know the full picture.

 

What the for sure know is that andor just went through a civil war (succession whatever), because the dragon reborn pulled out and the new queen didnt want to be shown to rely too much on him, they dont know about the andor+cairhein thing yet since it literally just happened.

 

True, Andor did just come out of a mini-civil war, but there wasn't much actual fighting. News of the Andor+Cairhein is going to travel pretty fast even if you discount gateways. And besides it's the beginning of the Last Battle, Andor remains very powerful, and it's queen is an aes sedai who has the Band on contract, and the murandians should know better than to attack the Band. Also the shadow already has an army attacking Caemlyn, so unless they want the murandians alerted to the fact that there are shadowspawn so far south, they're going to keep people far away from Caemlyn. News of the attack will travel fast anyway. And I doubt Andor's countryside matters much to DO. With the current lack of food, I think the last thing the murandians will want is a pointless war. Oh and Egwene has sent a messenger to Murandy to ask them to come to the FOM and they're going to want to know the details of that.

Edited by Master Ablar
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Dida's not a chick?

 

 

Brandon's unwitting reveal does make it seem likely that Demandred is Roedran, much as that theory stuck in my craw only months earlier. Still a couple of minor issues that bother me about it:

 

1. The irrelevance of Murandy/excessive time required (already addressed in the FAQ and extensively here)

 

2. Brandon saying this was "much, much harder" than figuring out Asmo's killer. Because if it's Roedran, it's not. He's the only remaining character you could make a convincing case for.

 

3. Graendal not being able to figure out where he is. If he's been in Murandy for at least 4-5 books; in a position as prominent as king; in a country that, while far away, isn't all the way across the globe, you'd think she would be able to figure it out. That's a much more conspicuous position than posing as Danelle, or rallying DFs, and Graendal was able to pinpoint the whereabouts/duties of those three.

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Dida's not a chick?

Nope. His name is Ryan.

 

2. Brandon saying this was "much, much harder" than figuring out Asmo's killer. Because if it's Roedran, it's not. He's the only remaining character you could make a convincing case for.

I think he probably based that comment on the fact that most people believed that Graendal killed Asmodean (meaning it must not have been very hard to figure it out - other comments he has made on Graendal as the killer indicate that he thought it was figured out by most fans) and the fact that hardly anyone suspected that Demandred was Roedran. So I would not read too much into his comment.

 

3. Graendal not being able to figure out where he is.

I think she didn't figure it out for the same reason we didn't.

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Amazing what you can sometimes uncover in Dida/Felix's ramblings if you are willing to sift through the dross isn't it?

Indeed. He's good at uncovering overlooked details, but bad at making leaps based upon those details.

 

Its hard to take anything Dida/Felix Pax says seriously with his continuing refusal to admit that Cyndane is Lanfear. That's just a sticking point for me with his credibility. His strange obsession with Valan Luca doesn't help either. Mostly I just see him taking completely trivial details and turning them into the most long-winded, borderline incoherent, weird theories I've ever seen. Often entertaining, but rarely informative.

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Dida's not a chick?

Nope. His name is Ryan.

 

2. Brandon saying this was "much, much harder" than figuring out Asmo's killer. Because if it's Roedran, it's not. He's the only remaining character you could make a convincing case for.

I think he probably based that comment on the fact that most people believed that Graendal killed Asmodean (meaning it must not have been very hard to figure it out - other comments he has made on Graendal as the killer indicate that he thought it was figured out by most fans) and the fact that hardly anyone suspected that Demandred was Roedran. So I would not read too much into his comment.

 

3. Graendal not being able to figure out where he is.

I think she didn't figure it out for the same reason we didn't.

 

um... Greandal is actually in the wot world. We can only go after what's written. If Demandred is in Murandy, it is rather incredible that she never would have had even the slightest suspicion about that since she said her spies would have told her where he was.

Edited by Master Ablar
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