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Demandred


Terez
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I should read the darn thing...

 

Edit my only hang up is, Murandians arent exactly known for their dastardly nature or fighting prowess. They couldn't worth much more than cannon fodder in Tarmon Gai'don.

 

 

Not true actually.

You forget how fast they not only organised but dealt with the False Dragon that popped up there. So fast in fact that it warranted comment.

Slow to cooperate with each other for sure but quite capable when they do.

Edited by Finnssss
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I should read the darn thing...

 

Edit my only hang up is, Murandians aren't exactly known for their dastardly nature or fighting prowess. They couldn't worth much more than cannon fodder in Tarmon Gai'don.

I doubt that an army of Murandians is his main goal, exactly, but I don't think we really have any evidence that they can't fight. They fight among each other so much that they are probably actually quite good at it. They give the impression of being weak because of that - because they have never held together as a nation very well. I think Demandred chose it because of its location more than anything else, but it's really impossible to say why he chose it. Remember, I didn't believe this theory any more than anyone else until Brandon accidentally narrowed it down. Now it's just the only real option. Demandred could have had any number of reasons for choosing Murandy, and we don't necessarily have to have big clues of it. I will be keeping an eye out for them in my reread, though.

 

I don't see how leading a small nation mostly consisting of non-darkfriends could be of any use in Last Battle, no matter how unexpected that would be.

It's a staging ground, and it's in a place that no one cares about, and therefore no one will interfere with.

If he is having tons of trollocs come into Murandy are the murandians not going to take notice of it?

It depends on where he is hiding them.

 

Also the shadow seems to be completely outnumbered in terms of channelers. TG is going to be pretty one sided unless the shadow gets more channelers.

That's exactly what is going on at the Black Tower, which is clearly a part of Demandred's plan. They are turning as many channelers as possible, as quickly as possible. Because of timeline inconsistencies, we don't know exactly how long they had to do it, but it's about a week I think (that is, ten days). We got our first clues that they have been training channelers off-site in TGS, and it was more obvious in TOM, with people like Kash. Again, there might be more clues as to what exactly his plans are and how it's going to go down. If I can puzzle anything out, I'll add an end game section to the article.

 

I've always believed he was in Shara (among other things he is doing) because it is nearly completely secluded from the rest of the world. It would be a perfect opportunity to corrupt an entire people against the Dragon Reborn. Demandred could even have Rand blamed for any bad things happening because of the approach of TG.

It may be that he is doing something in Shara, but it is unlikely from a literary perspective precisely because it is so far removed from the main plot. It's sort of like an inverse deus ex machina to have your Forsaken of Fail pull random badass from nowhere in the last book. It doesn't appear to be RJ's style - he likes to work with the details that he has developed the most thoroughly, and his plot moves are typically justified a little better than that. It could be pulled off, I think, but I doubt RJ was going there.

 

In any case, even if he is doing something in Shara, he still has to have an alter ego that we have heard of and can figure out, and the only Sharans we've seen that I can recall are the ex- Sh'boan and Sh'botay and the guy who was blabbing about how to make silk in KOD, and I doubt any of them are Demandred in disguise.

 

There's no way he'd manage to make the people fight for DO

The Murandians are more likely to be led against Caemlyn.

There is already an army of trollocs attacking Caemlyn. And if the shadow's armies are moving through the ways there isn't much need of a staging ground in Murandy.

You can only move so many Shadowspawn through the Ways at once, though. Aside from Machin Shin (which we will assume they have a way to deal with), they have to move in a pretty narrow file to get across the bridges and ramps. If it's a long train coming directly from the Blight, then it will take forever to get through, but if they can come from many directions at once, not so much. Technically it might be managed by sending them all over the Ways from the Blight, though. I'm thinking there will be some coming overland too.

 

It's a staging ground, and it's in a place that no one cares about, and therefore no one will interfere with.

Sounds like a lot of work for fairly small "profit".

A lot of work? Maybe. As for the profit, there's no way to really judge what that profit will be. Again, the strength of this theory is not in details like this. That's why I have always argued against it. But now that we have enough info to determine that it's probably true, we should start looking for more clues about what he has been up to in Murandy.

 

The smartest thing to do would be to just hide in a tavern or something, being a nobody, but still being the puppet master. Roedran still being Roedran, just under Demandred's influence.

The same could be said for Be'lal and Sammael. Hell, Sammael's ego was nearly as big as Demandred's, but his position was one of the Council of Nine, their palace built one dimension smaller than that of the king. Demandred held many positions of authority during the Age of Legends, and Sammael as well. They wanted a base of operations, and they felt most comfortable operating from a ruling position. Demandred might have simply chosen Murandy because it was the closest throne he could manage to steal in the vicinity of the Black Tower, right between the two most powerful rulers of nations - Elayne and Rand - in all of Randland aside from Tuon herself (who was part of Demandred's plan via the alliance with Semirhage) and Egwene (who was supposed to be part of the plan via Mesaana). The fact that it's rather non-noteworthy is a strategic advantage.

 

My biggest quibble with Roedran is why would he need Talmanes? Just go to the nobles a little bit of compulsion. Bada boom bada bing, you have Murandy.

For one thing, we've never seen Demandred use Compulsion, so he might prefer to use other methods. We've seen him spying on Elayne in Tel'aran'rhiod, but other than that, we know almost nothing about his methods beyond the fact that he is a brilliant military mind. Also, even if he was using Compulsion, it takes time to Compel enough people to make a difference unless you are willing to destroy the mind like Graendal does.

 

For another thing, he might simply have wanted to investigate the Band. As a military-minded man, he would have wanted to understand the most important armies of Randland, this one is of special note because it is commanded by one of the three ta'veren. He also had a chance to turn on them, but we don't know ANY details on that unfortunately, except that Talmanes somehow managed to get out of it, and that he ended up with the pipe and such (which probably has a Finder weave on it). If nothing else, it lets Demandred know where the Band is at all times. In that sense, making a bond with Talmanes is even more useful than making one with Mat.

 

The Murandians are more likely to be led against Caemlyn.

A fair point, but still, Demandred has no need to take Roedran's place to make that happen.

It doesn't hurt, either. Again, just because we don't know his plans doesn't mean that he doesn't have a good reason for impersonating Roedran.

 

But not Roedran, huh? Well, there's no accounting for some folks' logic...

I don't quite understand what you mean there.

 

You mean it's weird I could see Demandred collecting an army from Land of Madmen, but not him pretending to be Roedran?

I don't see how those two things are even remotely connected. He could be Batman and still collect an army from Land of the Madmen, it makes no difference who he is.

They are only connected by relative logic. There is massive evidence pointing to the Roedran thing, but the Land of Madmen has never even been mentioned outside the BWB. For the readers who have never even seen the BWB (which is probably the vast majority of WoT readers), it would be ridiculous to introduce an army from a place that hardly anyone has even heard of in the last book.

 

And giving Talmanes that book on war that Mat talked about seems pretty dumb since Demandred should know that its a good book.

1. Talmanes probably mentioned Comadrin before Roedran did and gave Roedran the impression that he had read it, or that Mat had anyway.

2. Even if Roedran is not Demandred, the same argument still applies.

3. If it is Demandred, he's not likely to think that giving someone a good book is going to give them a chance against him.

 

Also, it's worth mentioning that Demandred might have written the book himself, or maybe he recognized the influence of things he had written in the book. He wrote several books in the Age of Legends on various topics, and his books were far more popular than Ishamael's books because they were less esoteric, so it may be that the book managed to survive well past the Breaking, if not to the present (in the form of Comadrin's book). This would fit with the ancient and even not-so-distant-past practice of attributing great writings to popular figures, whether they were written by said figures or not.

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Also, it's worth mentioning that Demandred might have written the book himself, or maybe he recognized the influence of things he had written in the book. He wrote several books in the Age of Legends on various topics, and his books were far more popular than Ishamael's books because they were less esoteric, so it may be that the book managed to survive well past the Breaking, if not to the present (in the form of Comadrin's book). This would fit with the ancient and even not-so-distant-past practice of attributing great writings to popular figures, whether they were written by said figures or not.

This is way too speculative IMO.

 

I have to say that I do find your arguments that Roedran seems too wily and capable all of a sudden quite persuasive. Here is one more quote for you to bolster this part of your argument. When Bryn talks to Siuan when he first reaches Salidar he thinks on how unlikely it would be for anybody at all to be able to unite Murandy.

 

 

It was his opinion that Murandy would remain a patchwork of all but independent lords and ladies until the Wheel turned and a new Age came. Murandians called themselves Lugarders or Mindeans or whatever before they named a nation. If they even bothered to name one.

 

FoH, Ch28

 

Bryn is very experienced in both politics and warfare so his opinion should matter.

 

It's just that I find Roedran's dealings with Talmanes very strange if one assumes that he himself is Demandred. I don't find your explanations of this part persuasive. The theory about the pipe is very intriguing but is also extremely tenuous given the evidence. Talmanes is hardly the only person around who carries a pipe. They all smoke. I don't know if we've met a male character in the books who does not smoke. Have these people heard of lung cancer?

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Also, it's worth mentioning that Demandred might have written the book himself, or maybe he recognized the influence of things he had written in the book. He wrote several books in the Age of Legends on various topics, and his books were far more popular than Ishamael's books because they were less esoteric, so it may be that the book managed to survive well past the Breaking, if not to the present (in the form of Comadrin's book). This would fit with the ancient and even not-so-distant-past practice of attributing great writings to popular figures, whether they were written by said figures or not.

 

Naw, Demy didn't write it, Comadrin did and he was a famous General 600 years before Hawkwing.

Mat never actually read the book either, his quotes from Comadrin are from his memories of actually meeting the man.

Mat has used the "read a book somewhere" excuse for his memories since the Stone of Tear when Rand inadvertently gave him the idea after exiting the Doorway there to cover for Egwene and Nynaeve.

 

 

Either way, Demandred is way too confident to worry that giving a book out will defeat him.

 

It also furthers my guess that it will be Demandred vs Mat not Rand when the chips start really falling. I doubt Rand is going to be all that involved in the large scale battles, not when he will be dealing with Moridin, Fain and the seal itself, possibly even Lanfear/Cyndane.

Ever since I decided on Murandy as Demy's most likely base of operations setting up links to the Band and Talmanes, Demy being one of the Shadow's greatest Generals and best surviving one, then Graendal mentioning that Demandred was the gambler.

It just screams of a Demy/greatest general/gambler vs Mat/greatest general/gambler showdown imo.

Edited by Finnssss
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Also, it's worth mentioning that Demandred might have written the book himself, or maybe he recognized the influence of things he had written in the book. He wrote several books in the Age of Legends on various topics, and his books were far more popular than Ishamael's books because they were less esoteric, so it may be that the book managed to survive well past the Breaking, if not to the present (in the form of Comadrin's book). This would fit with the ancient and even not-so-distant-past practice of attributing great writings to popular figures, whether they were written by said figures or not.

This is way too speculative IMO.

 

Way too speculative for what? To be worth mentioning? I don't think it's too speculative for that at all.

 

I have to say that I do find your arguments that Roedran seems too wily and capable all of a sudden quite persuasive. Here is one more quote for you to bolster this part of your argument. When Bryn talks to Siuan when he first reaches Salidar he thinks on how unlikely it would be for anybody at all to be able to unite Murandy.

I quoted a couple of passages to the same effect in the article.

 

Naw, Demy didn't write it, Comadrin did and he was a famous General 600 years before Hawkwing.

Was that supposed to be an argument?

 

Mat never actually read the book either, his quotes from Comadrin are from his memories of actually meeting the man.

No, he read it, and more than once:

 

"Who is Comadrin?" Talmanes asked after a moment, and Mat had to gather himself to answer.

 

"A general. Dead a long time. I read his book once." He remembered reading it, anyway, more than once; he doubted a copy existed anywhere now. For that matter, he remembered meeting Comadrin, after losing a battle to him some six hundred years before Artur Hawkwing. Those memories did creep up on him. At least he had not delivered that little speech in the Old Tongue; he usually managed to avoid that sort of thing now.

I quoted that in the article too.

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"Who is Comadrin?" Talmanes asked after a moment, and Mat had to gather himself to answer.

 

"A general. Dead a long time. I read his book once." He remembered reading it, anyway, more than once; he doubted a copy existed anywhere now. For that matter, he remembered meeting Comadrin, after losing a battle to him some six hundred years before Artur Hawkwing. Those memories did creep up on him. At least he had not delivered that little speech in the Old Tongue; he usually managed to avoid that sort of thing now.

I quoted that in the article too.

 

 

Good call, you're right, he did read it but I highly doubt Demy took the time to sit down and write a book.

The books he did write during the AoL were during peace when he was an Aes Sedai and long before he turned to the Shadow.

He is after all 400+ years old, only a day younger than LTT.

Edited by Finnssss
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"Who is Comadrin?" Talmanes asked after a moment, and Mat had to gather himself to answer.

 

"A general. Dead a long time. I read his book once." He remembered reading it, anyway, more than once; he doubted a copy existed anywhere now. For that matter, he remembered meeting Comadrin, after losing a battle to him some six hundred years before Artur Hawkwing. Those memories did creep up on him. At least he had not delivered that little speech in the Old Tongue; he usually managed to avoid that sort of thing now.

I quoted that in the article too.

 

 

Good call, you're right, he did read it but Demy didn't write it.

Again, is that supposed to be an argument? What is your evidence? Also, my statement included the possibility that Comadrin's book was influenced by a book Demandred wrote, which is a little more likely, but either is theoretically possible.

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Again, is that supposed to be an argument? What is your evidence? Also, my statement included the possibility that Comadrin's book was influenced by a book Demandred wrote, which is a little more likely, but either is theoretically possible.

 

I edited my post while you were posting.

It's a very minor point in the grand scheme anyway.

 

Remember, I'm on your side here :biggrin:

Edited by Finnssss
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Also, it's worth mentioning that Demandred might have written the book himself, or maybe he recognized the influence of things he had written in the book. He wrote several books in the Age of Legends on various topics, and his books were far more popular than Ishamael's books because they were less esoteric, so it may be that the book managed to survive well past the Breaking, if not to the present (in the form of Comadrin's book). This would fit with the ancient and even not-so-distant-past practice of attributing great writings to popular figures, whether they were written by said figures or not.

This is way too speculative IMO.

 

Way too speculative for what? To be worth mentioning? I don't think it's too speculative for that at all.

 

The part about Demandred writing it himself is way too speculative to be taken seriously. The quote you give yourself about Mat remembering meeting Comadrin hismself and reading his book would speak against this.

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Good call, you're right, he did read it but I highly doubt Demy took the time to sit down and write a book.

The books he did write during the AoL were during peace when he was an Aes Sedai and long before he turned to the Shadow.

He is after all 400+ years old, only a day younger than LTT.

You seem to contradict yourself here. Also, I'm sure most of his books were written during a time of peace, but he could have easily written a book on war during the War of Power before he turned. There is nothing to say he did not.

 

Also, it's worth mentioning that Demandred might have written the book himself, or maybe he recognized the influence of things he had written in the book. He wrote several books in the Age of Legends on various topics, and his books were far more popular than Ishamael's books because they were less esoteric, so it may be that the book managed to survive well past the Breaking, if not to the present (in the form of Comadrin's book). This would fit with the ancient and even not-so-distant-past practice of attributing great writings to popular figures, whether they were written by said figures or not.

This is way too speculative IMO.

 

Way too speculative for what? To be worth mentioning? I don't think it's too speculative for that at all.

 

The part about Demandred writing it himself is way too speculative to be taken seriously.

An appropriate response to what is obviously intended to be speculation would be something more along the lines of 'I don't think this is likely, because....' rather than 'it's too speculative'. It's almost redundant.

 

The quote you give yourself about Mat remembering meeting Comadrin hismself and reading his book would speak against this.

Not really. We know that Comadrin was a real person, but not necessarily that he actually wrote the book, and certainly we don't know that he was not influenced by Demandred's writing.

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Good call, you're right, he did read it but I highly doubt Demy took the time to sit down and write a book.

The books he did write during the AoL were during peace when he was an Aes Sedai and long before he turned to the Shadow.

He is after all 400+ years old, only a day younger than LTT.

You seem to contradict yourself here. Also, I'm sure most of his books were written during a time of peace, but he could have easily written a book on war during the War of Power before he turned. There is nothing to say he did not.

 

 

Not at all. I just find it highly doubtful that Comadrin was influenced by any writings of Demandred in the first place as any strategies in such a book would be based on the advanced tactics of the age with their advanced technology and use of the power extensively.

Only near the very end of the War of Power/Shadow were both sides reduced to using more mundane armaments like bows, swords and horse and they still had the Power.

It would be like trying to use modern Military tactics that rely more on Air support, long range weapons and reconnaissance to fight in the Crusades. Some basic tactics would carry over sure but also be almost unrecognizable in modern warfare.

 

I just don't see any reason or evidence to lead you down the path that anyone other than Comadrin himself wrote the book based on his own battles and experience.

 

I already said I agree with your faq and it outlines many and more points that I have believed myself but disputing who wrote "Fog and Steel" or of possible Demandred influence in its' writing is not substantiated or even hinted at in any way nor is either productive to your theory.

Edited by Finnssss
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I just find it highly doubtful that Comadrin was influenced by any writings of Demandred in the first place as any strategies in such a book would be based on the advanced tactics of the age with their advanced technology and use of the power extensively.

Now, that is a real argument! But still not necessarily true. Most of the advice we hear from Comadrin is applicable either way.

 

I already said I agree with your faq and it outlines many and more points that I have believed myself but disputing who wrote "Fog and Steel" or of possible Demandred influence in its' writing is not substantiated or even hinted at in any way nor is either productive to your theory.

I just threw it out as a possibility (and an interesting one, IMO). If you'll notice, I didn't mention it in the article at all.

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I just find it highly doubtful that Comadrin was influenced by any writings of Demandred in the first place as any strategies in such a book would be based on the advanced tactics of the age with their advanced technology and use of the power extensively.

 

Now, that is a real argument! But still not necessarily true. Most of the advice we hear from Comadrin is applicable either way.

 

No, not really, supply lines, use of scouts, soldier and animal fatigue, defenses just to name a few things have radically different levels of priority.

Simply knowing the concept of the "hammer and anvil" would be all well and good except knowing the right personal involved to execute such a maneuver would be extremely different.

 

I already said I agree with your faq and it outlines many and more points that I have believed myself but disputing who wrote "Fog and Steel" or of possible Demandred influence in its' writing is not substantiated or even hinted at in any way nor is either productive to your theory.

I just threw it out as a possibility (and an interesting one, IMO). If you'll notice, I didn't mention it in the article at all.

 

Yep, I noticed you didn't mention it in the faq which also makes me wonder why it's such a burr under your saddle now.

Interesting...perhaps but also quite firmly out of left field too imo :wink:

Edited by Finnssss
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I just find it highly doubtful that Comadrin was influenced by any writings of Demandred in the first place as any strategies in such a book would be based on the advanced tactics of the age with their advanced technology and use of the power extensively.

 

Now, that is a real argument! But still not necessarily true. Most of the advice we hear from Comadrin is applicable either way.

 

No, not really, supply lines, use of scouts, soldier and animal fatigue, defenses just to name a few things have radically different levels of priority.

Where did Comadrin mention any of those things?

 

Yep, I noticed you didn't mention it in the faq which also makes me wonder why it's such a burr under your saddle now.

It's not. The [Removed] responses to it are, though.

Edited by yoniy0
Please keep a respectful tone
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It would make sense for Demo, a guy that acts through proxies, to only appear at the very end when the time for proxies is done. He's probably Nensen, a newbie, who within a remarkably short period of time is now in the inner circle (Androl's pov, he doesn't say how long or powerful he is only that he got raised when he shouldn't have), because at the last battle Dem. has to have control over his army. Demandred's army of the BT which, seems to include everyone but a handful of guys and the TR folk. So the BT is Demandred's center of power, a 100 to 300 BF Asha’man (depending on how you see their numbers) would rival even the most powerful army around and when used with the trolloc horde would put the DO at an advantage.

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Where did Comadrin mention any of those things?

 

That's not the point, the point is a book written by Comadrin would be vastly different from one written by Demandred. Two very different men from very different times using vastly different tactics.

 

It's not. The ridiculous and illogical responses to it are, though.

 

No offense but but it is kind of an illogical theory to begin with.

 

Maybe you need to explain again why Demandred would write it now along with any evidence or even a slightest hint to make that conclusion and even more importantly, why it simply isn't just a copy of Fog and Steel, a book Mat read in his memories, written by Comadrin, a man Mat met in his memories.

 

I mean, if anything, a better argument would be that such a book would actually be a valuable resource for Demandred to acquaint himself with the tactics and procedures of this age.

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Where did Comadrin mention any of those things?

 

That's not the point

Yes it is. My point was that the quotes we have seen from Comadrin are the type of thing that would apply generally, for the most part. I even gave a quote in the article that compares Demandred's thoughts with Comadrin's words. They are more along the lines of military philosophy than anything else.

 

No offense but but it is kind of an illogical theory to begin with.

It's not illogical; just not very likely. Again, I just threw it out as a possibility, with the more likely possibility that Comadrin might have been influenced by Demandred's writing. But even if the theory is illogical, that's no excuse for making illogical arguments (or non-arguments) against it.

Edited by Terez
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Yes it is. My point was that the quotes we have seen from Comadrin are the type of thing that would apply generally, for the most part. I even gave a quote in the article that compares Demandred's thoughts with Comadrin's words. They are more along the lines of military philosophy than anything else.

 

....and my point was....a book written by Comadrin would be vastly different from one written by Demandred. Two very different men from very different times using vastly different tactics.

 

It's not illogical; just not very likely. Again, I just threw it out as a possibility, with the more likely possibility that Comadrin might have been influenced by Demandred's writing. But even if the theory is illogical, that's no excuse for making illogical arguments (or non-arguments) against it.

 

...and again as the rest of my post said....Maybe you need to explain again why Demandred would write it now along with any evidence or even a slightest hint to make that conclusion and even more importantly, why it simply isn't just a copy of Fog and Steel, a book Mat read in his memories, written by Comadrin, a man Mat met in his memories.

 

I mean, if anything, a better argument would be that such a book would actually be a valuable resource for Demandred to acquaint himself with the tactics and procedures of this age.

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@Finnssss, Terez obviously agrees with you that it's not very likely Fog and Steel was written by Demandred. It's just one possibility. You can't make her defend it if she doesn't want to.

@Terez, since you put forth that theory (regardless of whether you intended to support it or not), you have to be willing to accept people thinking it's wrong, even if they don't make a good job at convincing you so. I see why it can get under your skin when people dismiss theories without explaining their reasoning, but they have a right to it nonetheless. Moreover, Finnssss did explain why he considers it unlikely several times now.

BTW I can't open the new link as well, although that might be caused by [Y]our Dusty Redesign Experiment :wink:

Edited by yoniy0
Darn these book names
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Yes it is. My point was that the quotes we have seen from Comadrin are the type of thing that would apply generally, for the most part. I even gave a quote in the article that compares Demandred's thoughts with Comadrin's words. They are more along the lines of military philosophy than anything else.

 

....and my point was....a book written by Comadrin would be vastly different from one written by Demandred.

Perhaps. I don't think we really have enough evidence to say either way, because we don't really know the nature of the book.

 

...and again as the rest of my post said....Maybe you need to explain again why Demandred would write it now along with any evidence or even a slightest hint to make that conclusion and even more importantly, why it simply isn't just a copy of Fog and Steel, a book Mat read in his memories, written by Comadrin, a man Mat met in his memories.

I didn't say he wrote it now. I don't think it needs to be established why he would write a book on war, and I don't particularly feel the need to provide evidence for something that I never claimed had evidence for it in the first place.

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I didn't say he wrote it now. I don't think it needs to be established why he would write a book on war, and I don't particularly feel the need to provide evidence for something that I never claimed had evidence for it in the first place.

 

 

Now I'm just confused.

I never said that Demy couldn't of or didn't write any books, I just said that I highly doubt that he had any influence what so ever in Comadrin writing "Fog and Steel" and there isn't any evidence or even hints to suggest it.

 

Either way, I'm done discussing a book that has nothing to do with anything other than the how of and who gave it to Talmanes.

Edited by Finnssss
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I didn't say he wrote it now. I don't think it needs to be established why he would write a book on war, and I don't particularly feel the need to provide evidence for something that I never claimed had evidence for it in the first place.

 

 

Now I'm just confused.

I never said that Demy couldn't of or didn't write any books, I just said that I highly doubt that he had any influence what so ever in Comadrin writing "Fog and Steel" and there isn't any evidence or even hints to suggest it.

Just the fact that some think it odd for Demandred to take any interest at all in a book that someone else wrote. Why would he need a Third Age man to tell him how to do war? It's all just common sense, after all, and nothing particularly difficult for a brilliant mind like Demandred's to figure out. Not that there are not other explanations for it. I offered at least one in the article itself.

 

Either way, I'm done discussing a book that has nothing to do with anything other than the how of and who gave it to Talmanes.

It's about time.

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anyone have thought about the legion of dragons? I think likely because demandred is a great general (either Moridin,demandred or both control the BT would hand out the command job to demandred).And it is Taim who has suggested that Rand to have a personnal army. A side point , I think Beshere may be under conplusion.(Even have the possibily of being the Broken Wolf)

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