Do prayers to the Light actually work?

[Awakened]

Do prayers to the Light actually work? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of this.

[Mr Hindley]

Do prayers to the Light actually work? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of this.

 

 

PROOF DENIES FAITH, AND WITHOUT FAITH I AM NOTHING.

 

...

 

OH, DAMN, DID I SAY THAT OUT LOUD?!? ER, JUST PRETEND YOU DIDN'T HEAR THAT... <embarrassed, Creator-style cough>

[herid]

Do prayers to the Light actually work? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of this.

Good question. I don't believe they do. At least we've seen no evidence of this in the books that I can recall.

 

 

PROOF DENIES FAITH,

 

definitely not in the WOT universe. RJ himself said that the main reason why there is no organized religion in randlands is because the proof is present in everyday life. there is hardly a need to indoctrinate and convert if merely saying the name of the DO shakes the room.

[Nygma]

Do prayers to the Light actually work? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of this.

It seems to be a prevalent opinion among Randlanders that the Creator does NOT take any hand in affairs. He made the Pattern and now it spins, which is why if the DO does get his way, he can destroy it all.

That being the case, prayers would seem to be useless if they're exhorting the Creator to do anything, because he doesn't do that.

[Blackhoof]

i would think that prayers in randland work as well as prayers in the real world.

 

did i mention that im atheist?

[FarShainMael]

Do prayers to the Light actually work? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of this.

Good question. I don't believe they do. At least we've seen no evidence of this in the books that I can recall.

 

 

PROOF DENIES FAITH,

 

definitely not in the WOT universe. RJ himself said that the main reason why there is no organized religion in randlands is because the proof is present in everyday life. there is hardly a need to indoctrinate and convert if merely saying the name of the DO shakes the room.

 

He was quoting from the works of the philosopher Oolon Colluphid. See the 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy', that scholarly work from

Megadodo Publications of Ursa Minor Beta.

[alpineman]

Do prayers to the Light actually work? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of this.

 

Religion only gets a superficial white-wash in this series. I've seen no evidence in the entire series to satisfy your query.

It appears the 'creator' made the 'wheel of time' world, and abandoned it.

 

If it was real, it would highly irresponsible (on the part of the creator). But it's just a story, so it's ok.

[nolirion]

Prayer are a way to commune with what you categories as god , I like to see them as a time you look into yourself and wish for the best , a bit like meditation in fact in a twisted kind of way.

But the whole Idea that you could speak to an hypothetic creator to ask him for a A+ in philosophy or some kind of reward for you faith I find that a bit sad and clearly that would piss of the creator( because you are not alone in the universe and he is in the obligation to listen to every single one of your whining )

[Luckers]

Prayers are like wishes. Cathartic, but of dubious reliability.

[Morsker]

Praying to Shai'tan just by saying his name seems universally effective, though no one desires the results. And of course, any channeler can pray for access to the True Power, though it's rarely granted.

 

RJ told us very clearly that the Creator never interferes though. It's probably just a plot device to avoid him ruining the story, but the in-world explanation is that he considers himself a perfect Creator who's made a perfect Creation, and that therefore no intervention is necessary. Intervention would either be admitting to the Creation's and therefore his own imperfection, or taking something perfect and changing it to be imperfect. And that's just not the way the Creator acts or thinks.

[herid]

Do prayers to the Light actually work? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of this.

Good question. I don't believe they do. At least we've seen no evidence of this in the books that I can recall.

 

 

PROOF DENIES FAITH,

 

definitely not in the WOT universe. RJ himself said that the main reason why there is no organized religion in randlands is because the proof is present in everyday life. there is hardly a need to indoctrinate and convert if merely saying the name of the DO shakes the room.

 

He was quoting from the works of the philosopher Oolon Colluphid. See the 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy', that scholarly work from

Megadodo Publications of Ursa Minor Beta.

Ah, you are quite right! I didn't recognize the quote. Shame on me. And 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' is one of my favorite books too.

[alpineman]

Praying to Shai'tan just by saying his name seems universally effective, though no one desires the results. And of course, any channeler can pray for access to the True Power, though it's rarely granted.

 

RJ told us very clearly that the Creator never interferes though. It's probably just a plot device to avoid him ruining the story, but the in-world explanation is that he considers himself a perfect Creator who's made a perfect Creation, and that therefore no intervention is necessary. Intervention would either be admitting to the Creation's and therefore his own imperfection, or taking something perfect and changing it to be imperfect. And that's just not the way the Creator acts or thinks.

 

If I lived in the wheel of time world, I would be angry at the creator for putting the dark one in such a weak prison that a black haired little milksap named Mierin could just drill a hole in the dark one's prison.

Creator: "Oops, my perfect creation just got ruined by a little whench seeking power."

In this regard, Lanfear is paralleled by Eve. Both introduced evil into the world. However I find Lanfear much more exciting. Too bad Rand didn't dump the whiny sisters and chase after her! :)

[jemron]

Do prayers to the Light actually work? I can't say that I have seen any evidence of this.

 

Religion only gets a superficial white-wash in this series. I've seen no evidence in the entire series to satisfy your query.

It appears the 'creator' made the 'wheel of time' world, and abandoned it.

 

If it was real, it would highly irresponsible (on the part of the creator). But it's just a story, so it's ok.

 

I think this is one of the most common misconceptions of the series, IMO. The characters believe that the Creator abandoned the world after creation, but that doesn't mean he did. I think he's highly involved, but we won't realize it until the series is over.

 

I just read a quote by RJ like two days ago, but am too lazy to find it. He said basically, "Who said the Creator doesn't get involved?" This, to me, means that the Creator IS involved, and all of the characters in the world of the WoT in the current Age are completely misguided and misinformed about said involvement.

[Xader]

In this regard, Lanfear is paralleled by Eve. Both introduced evil into the world.

 

Or, as I've made note of in the past, Pandora...

[Zentari]

 

I just read a quote by RJ like two days ago, but am too lazy to find it. He said basically, "Who said the Creator doesn't get involved?" This, to me, means that the Creator IS involved, and all of the characters in the world of the WoT in the current Age are completely misguided and misinformed about said involvement.

Himself,in EoTW , if I'm not mistaken.If he DOES interfere then he is a master of subtlety because there is not a single point that we see him do anything.Evil ? Sure, say the DO's name and you'll have instant confirmation.

[nolirion]

In this regard, Lanfear is paralleled by Eve. Both introduced evil into the world.

 

Or, as I've made note of in the past, Pandora...

Eve never introduced evil into the world first because their sin ( Adam and eve ) where to tasted the forbidden fruit ,

second because the garden in Eden is not a "pure" world Satan is already there .

[Awakened]

Too bad Rand didn't dump the whiny sisters and chase after her! :)

 

Ah, so I am not the only one who lamented this. Lanfear was by far more interesting than his current harem.

[jemron]

 

I just read a quote by RJ like two days ago, but am too lazy to find it. He said basically, "Who said the Creator doesn't get involved?" This, to me, means that the Creator IS involved, and all of the characters in the world of the WoT in the current Age are completely misguided and misinformed about said involvement.

Himself,in EoTW , if I'm not mistaken.If he DOES interfere then he is a master of subtlety because there is not a single point that we see him do anything.Evil ? Sure, say the DO's name and you'll have instant confirmation.

 

The creator didn't say he doesn't get involved. He said something like "It is not here." I took that to mean that the Creator won't get involved until a later time/place. Also, how do you describe some of the weird things that happen throughout the series besides "The Pattern did it" like, the appearance of Rand and Ba'alzamon above Falme, Rand somehow being connected to his past life's memories (Lews Therin), and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head. The Patterns is supposed to be "neutral" so I believe that when some of those "balancing acts" happen, it is the Creator or the Pattern made by the Creator that are doing it. That's invovlement, IMO.

 

Anyway, I was talking about a quote from RJ about the Creator, not a quote from the Creator himself.

[Erunion]

Either the Creator is involved, or he has created an incredible thinking machine, namely The Wheel of Time, to do his work for him. Which is pretty much the same as being involved. Without really being involved.

 

Either way, when you pray to the light, the creator could hear you, or the wheel itself could hear you as the only feasible explanation for the whole Rand-in-the-Sky is that either the Creator got involved or the Wheel can react to events that happen in real-time, in which case either of those entities could assist you. Not that they necessarily will, but that they could.

[AvroChris]

 

I just read a quote by RJ like two days ago, but am too lazy to find it. He said basically, "Who said the Creator doesn't get involved?" This, to me, means that the Creator IS involved, and all of the characters in the world of the WoT in the current Age are completely misguided and misinformed about said involvement.

Himself,in EoTW , if I'm not mistaken.If he DOES interfere then he is a master of subtlety because there is not a single point that we see him do anything.Evil ? Sure, say the DO's name and you'll have instant confirmation.

 

The creator didn't say he doesn't get involved. He said something like "It is not here." I took that to mean that the Creator won't get involved until a later time/place. Also, how do you describe some of the weird things that happen throughout the series besides "The Pattern did it" like, the appearance of Rand and Ba'alzamon above Falme, Rand somehow being connected to his past life's memories (Lews Therin), and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head. The Patterns is supposed to be "neutral" so I believe that when some of those "balancing acts" happen, it is the Creator or the Pattern made by the Creator that are doing it. That's invovlement, IMO.

 

Anyway, I was talking about a quote from RJ about the Creator, not a quote from the Creator himself.

 

"The Light Blind you, Ba'alzamon! This has to end!"

IT IS NOT HERE.

It was not Rand's own thought, making his skull vibrate.

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL

"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"

The haze around him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air, ten spans high, walled by billowing smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each standing alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

NOT HERE.

 

Now, that's not to say that he never gets involved but it does seem like he won't be tinkering too much with what's going on - he'll let the Wheel do it's job before getting involved, is how I see this. He probably realised that the saviour of the world had no idea what was going on at this point and he needed something to point him in the right direction in a hurry and buy time for him to grow into being the Dragon Reborn.

Also, no evidence for this whatsoever but the Wheel is about balance. I imagine direct intervention at one point might disrupt the Pattern somewhere else, so it would make sense for the Creator to avoid direct intervention.

[Nygma]

At one point, Rand has a LTT-prompted musing that the Creator is a gardener who moves on from one flower to the next. He thinks that a gardener does not mourn when a single flower dies.

 

Randland is just one of many, many worlds.

[Judemort]

Wouldn't it be awful if at the end of AMOL, after Rands assault at Shayol Ghul, there's a chapter where Rand is in limbo or somthin, and then the Creator shows up and they talk and everything unknown is revealed? Kinda like at the end of Harry Potter with Dumbledore. The Creator's all, "Yeah yeah, Heres what ALL the viewings/Dreams meant. This is what Demy was up to and oh, Taims done a few naughty things behind your back. Oh yeah, and Graendal killed Asmodean."

You know what I mean?

[Entreri]

They work as much as in the real world to religion a,b,c....x,y,z.

 

Which is to say a placebo effect. Fortunately in the WoT for the world, the Creator is real.

[Erunion]

They work as much as in the real world to religion a,b,c....x,y,z.

 

Which is to say a placebo effect. Fortunately in the WoT for the world, the Creator is real.

 

Entreri, little digs like this have no place here.

 

With whether or not prayers to the light actually work, well, think about Jordan's universe, and his own beliefs. Jordan has created a Universe where there is a creator without any shadow of a doubt, as well as an antithesis to that creator. Jordan's universe also has 'The Wheel of Time' which is an incredibly complex algorithmic machine created by said creator to maintain this world. Now, while Rand in his despair believes that the Creator has moved on to create another world, this is not necessarily true. Indeed, it is quite likely not true! Something speaks to Rand at the end of The Eye of The World. Something takes Rand's battle with Ishamael to the skies above Falme, and broadcasts it to where the False Dragon's are.

Now, as neither of these events help the Dark One in any way, he is not an option. This leaves either the Creator, or the Pattern, to intervene (likely the Creator in the first instance, and the Pattern in the second instance). And that intervention is in response to a distinct stimuli, and shows signs of intelligence. This means that either the Creator is watching and assisting in the World of the Wheel, or the Pattern itself has both the power and will to do so.

Now, Jordan was well known as a Christian (a High Church Episcopalian, I believe) which means that he personally believed in a Creator that listens to prayers and is willing to personally intervene in the world to help the world.

 

Therefore, it is logical to assume that prayers can be answered intentionally, either by the Creator or the Pattern. Whether they will be or not, and the criteria necessary for them to be answered, I do not know. But it is both possible, even probable, that some prayers will be answered. Indeed, all prayers to the light are likely answered (considering that 'No' is an answer)!

 

So, to answer the OP, prayers to the Light can work in Jordan's universe, but whether they actually will work is a different story. Frankly, I don't know.

[Morsker]

Now, Jordan was well known as a Christian (a High Church Episcopalian, I believe) which means that he personally believed in a Creator that listens to prayers and is willing to personally intervene in the world to help the world.

 

Therefore, it is logical to assume that prayers can be answered intentionally, either by the Creator or the Pattern. Whether they will be or not, and the criteria necessary for them to be answered, I do not know. But it is both possible, even probable, that some prayers will be answered. Indeed, all prayers to the light are likely answered (considering that 'No' is an answer)!

I think this conclusion is unfair. Tolkein and C. S. Lewis felt compelled to make their fictional God identical with the God they believe in, but they're extremists. It's not some cognitive limitation of religious authors, that they're unable to write anything but their religion. The authors who felt limited accepted the limit by choice. RJ's motives were different. He told us that religion informed his moral views, and that finds its way into the story, but the theology is pure fiction. If the Creator answers prayers, it would be only because RJ thought it was good storytelling, not because of his own religion.