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Inactivity


LilyElizabeth

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Posted
  On 1/28/2011 at 12:49 AM, Little Miss said:

Yes there is a big line. But I think the addicts a they call them selfs are also guilty for spreading them selves out to thin

 

this hurts my feelings. *cries*

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Posted

Song, you manage to play in all the games you're in. I can think of people who sign up but then only actually play in the ones they like their role in or participate in none of them.

 

Personally, I am sticking to two at a time as well. One of those two is on another site where it's a lot more intensive.

 

Glad to hear that, Verb. I'd like OG to be the mafia center again.

Posted

I generally end up signing up for more BECAUSE there isn't enough activity, and I don't feel like my "hit" is good enough. I would love to see a change in the OG though, I don't feel like there are games here often enough.

Posted

I've thought about using the rule of people having to post every game day, but like AJ said, I don't know that it would work. I mean, everyone has days where their internet is out or they just don't manage to post - if you were super strict on this rule, I feel like players, even ones that are generally active, would be getting replaced or modkilled left and right. However, I do think that the one post every day/night cycle could be made a little more strict. Like, it must be a content-related post, and then really following through on that, as a mod. I know in the past I haven't totally enforced that rule; as in, I haven't checked every day/night cycle to see if someone posted, and from now on, I plan on being more strict about that.

 

I also like to replace when I can, but I will modkill if a replacement can't be found. And a good replacement. In my WOT mafia, a couple of times inactives were replaced with more inactives.

 

I do think inactivity in mafia is, as Verb said, partly because of DM activity being low in general, but I also think it's a lot of the newbies in mafia. I'm not blaming them entirely, but I have noticed that a lot of the newbies join a game, and then never really get active. Now, it's not unusual for a newbie to be inactive in their first game, maybe even their second, but some people are just never getting active. In which case, why are you even playing? If you're just interested to see how the game goes, follow along the game thread without actually signign up to play.

 

 

  On 1/26/2011 at 9:49 PM, Song of Ice and Fire said:

I agree. I'm playing that game at JN and wow it's amazing!! I started playing mafia here on DM, and since I've started it's normally pretty inactive besides DPRs game, but I still get really angry everytime someone get's randomly killed. When I get mad on thread people make excuses and tell me that I haven't given people enough time to respond to my poking and blah blah blah. I know real life happens, but most people make excuses for work and such. You know when you sign up that you have to work, if you can't make the commitment, then don't sign up. I think it's super unfair for the mod and the players who actually want to play.

 

I do feel compelled to say here that, from what I've heard, JN has always been crazy more active than DM, even when DM games here were active. I remember some epopel who started on DM going over there to try out a game and they literally couldn't keep up with it; people got yelled at for inactivity because posting once every RL day was literally not enough to be counted active. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but JN mafia is diferent from DM mafia, and always has been. I guess I'm just syaing, don't hold up our mafia here to the standards of JN. I don't play at JN, and wouldn't ever want to, partly for that reason.

 

I also don't think you can hold work against players, so long as it doesn't keep them from posting every day or so. People have to work, most peopel, in fact, have to work. Now if they know their job is going to keep them from being active, well, sure, don't play. But I agree with Lily, it's mostly the people who actively lurk that are the problem.

 

As for blacklisting, I don't know about a public list, but I do keep my own private blacklist, both for inactives and players who flout my rules (and I don't mean someone accidentally double posting, I mean people going against a rule, claiming they didn't read the rule as an excuse (hello that is not an excuse, you're supposed to read the rules!), and then seeming to not really care that they broke the rules anyway). I don't keep those players out of a game, because I don't know how to do that when it's an open signup, but I definitely don't give them roles, and I keep an eye on their activity level and posting.

 

  Quote
yes i shoudl have dropped the game, but my pride (i hate to quit things) and feelings for the Mod kept me from droppign the game. i didn't want them to have to deal with finding a replacement in the middle of a game nor put the brnden of catching up on a fairley active game halfway through. i still feel horrible, and theres no excuse for it; but there you have it. i think my only saving grace was that it's only happened in 2 games in the entire time i've playe mafia here :laugh: no one said anythign to me about it, but still knowing how active players feel about inactives; i cant help but being ashamed of that :ph34r:

 

I definitely understand this, Red, and I don't have a problem when things like this come up with players, especially players like you that I know to usually be active. I don't like to quit mafia games either, though I was seriously considerng both of my present games, with my internet problems and the way work flared up for a few days there. But both of those things have calmed down now, so I'm staying in. I told myself if I find myself not having time to post against, though, I am going to drop out of those games.

 

Like some of you have mentioned, I'm also thinking of doing a game with private signups, or, well, basically by PM invitation. I think Aemon did that for his game and it turned out well. In all fairnes, I don't think all games should be run like that, but if you're a frustrated mod, that might be the way to go every once in a while. And it will make other players want to be better/more active players, so they have a chance of getting asked to play.

 

  On 1/27/2011 at 9:33 PM, Little Miss said:

The other thing I noticed lately is the new change that if a lynch isn't made ALL members are up for a lynch. I honestly don't agree with that because I have seen a ton of people say "I am with holding a vote since I don't think you are right" and never get around to voting. I think perhaps we need to go back to non voters are up for a mod kill if a lynch isn't reached.

 

Limi, I was one of those who pushed really hard for that rule to go out, and this is why: the rule where one of the nonvoters got randomly lynched was even worse for activity than the one where all players are up for it. Lynches still didn't happen. People, rather than collectively trying to get a lynch, would just quickly come on, throw out a vote for a random person (sometimes even a vote for themselves) just so they had a vote and wouldn't be modkilled. SO random modkills were just as frequent, if not more frequent, and those people who threw out random votes were rally being just as lazy and inactive and those who didn't vote at all. (Also, as a player who sometimes likes to not vote, unless my vote is needed for a majority, I really hated that rule).

 

The idea with the current rule, of course, is that you have to collectively work together to get a lynch, since anyone could be modkilled. Unfortunately, these new inactive people are probably inactive enough that they don't really care if they get killed, and they're not thinking of the feelings of an active player who could get killed. Which is just inconsiderate, and again I say, why play if you don't care that much about the game?

 

I do think some people need to limit their games. Some people (like Song :D) can play in a lot and keep up with all those games, but I learned a long time ago to limit myself to 2, 3 at the very very most. Unfortunately, that's left up to the individual to realize that.

 

Oh, and I forgot to add, I also think if games are to be limited to OG, there need to be more games in OG at once, or at least, have the games moving faster somehow. I've been on the queue for a themed game for about a year now.

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Posted
  On 1/28/2011 at 8:21 PM, Alanna said:

I do think inactivity in mafia is, as Verb said, partly because of DM activity being low in general, but I also think it's a lot of the newbies in mafia. I'm not blaming them entirely, but I have noticed that a lot of the newbies join a game, and then never really get active. Now, it's not unusual for a newbie to be inactive in their first game, maybe even their second, but some people are just never getting active. In which case, why are you even playing? If you're just interested to see how the game goes, follow along the game thread without actually signign up to play.

 

Newbies are my big concern. We are teaching them to play this way, by being inactive ourselves. I know, for myself, I'm always quiet day one and sometimes day two. Now EVERYONE is quiet those days and we end up with no information even as late as day three sometimes. So, I'm trying to fix what I've done to contribute to this problem. It's hard to think of something to say when you have nothing. But I am trying. Lately, I've taken to poking at the inactives to get them talking at least.

Posted

*snort* Poking inactives...

 

I have more to say later (I stink and need a shower LOL), but I think this thread was a brilliant idea; it's bringing the issues to the forefront and I believe we can accomplish a lot knowing that there are others frustrated and willing to do something about it.

 

That's all for now, lovelies.

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Posted

Thanks, Lanie. I didn't want to just stop playing on DM, but I can't take this anymore. I'm glad y'all are participating in trying to find a solution, too.

Posted

What did people think of a requirement to have had a mafia class or lesson before they are allowed to play in the normal games?

 

I commented in it before but did get a yay or nay.

 

A mafia class that talks about the norms of games, the roles, the flow of the game, and such.. :/

Posted
  On 1/28/2011 at 9:24 PM, Little Miss said:

What did people think of a requirement to have had a mafia class or lesson before they are allowed to play in the normal games?

 

I commented in it before but did get a yay or nay.

 

A mafia class that talks about the norms of games, the roles, the flow of the game, and such.. :/

 

As a new player, I really like this idea a lot. Of course I'm the freak who likes school and learning and such *laughs*.

 

I must say that I am dishearted by the lack of activity too. I mean, I'm new, but at least I try! It's hard when people aren't talking at all.

 

Sorry - didn't mean to but in! Back to your regularly scheduled discussion :smile:.

Posted
  On 1/28/2011 at 9:24 PM, Little Miss said:

What did people think of a requirement to have had a mafia class or lesson before they are allowed to play in the normal games?

 

I commented in it before but did get a yay or nay.

 

A mafia class that talks about the norms of games, the roles, the flow of the game, and such.. :/

I think that's a great idea Limi, I mentioned making the "About Mafia" section more clear. I think we should have beginners games running, honestly. I know there's one on Myndjack right now in signups, but I haven't seen a beginner's game on DM since I've been here, which is the greater part of a year. . . the best way to learn IS jumping in, but we set a bad example sometimes too. Clearer rules create a better foundation for future great mafia players.

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 9:51 PM, keyholder21 said:

As a new player, I really like this idea a lot. Of course I'm the freak who likes school and learning and such *laughs*.

 

I must say that I am dishearted by the lack of activity too. I mean, I'm new, but at least I try! It's hard when people aren't talking at all.

 

Sorry - didn't mean to but in! Back to your regularly scheduled discussion :smile:.

Key, your input is especially important, you as a new player. Being the point of interest of who we're trying to target for activity, I think your opinion is extremely welcome to let us know what we need to do to make it better.

 

Alanna also has some great points; but what caught my attention: almost a YEAR? By golly!

Posted

I think it's a good idea too Limi.

 

I had written a huge post and click something wrong and it all disappeared.

 

I don't think stopping games elsewhere is a good idea, but limiting them more may help. The thing I find in OG is that there are some many threads that it takes me a while to find them. (yeah I'm getting on a bit :P) But why not sticky them here, that would make them easier to find. Maybe have a few more easy ones too.

 

Lily I totally understand the bit about those being inactive if they don't have a role. I wonder why they bother playing the, If we had some games where there weren't so many roles and were more about the game it;s self, it might let people see how it's played, and that roles aren't the be all and end all. In fact sometimes I find it quite refreshing not having a role. It used to be that newbies couldn't play until they had done some basic games first!

 

I must admit, too that when the games are big I can be quite quite until it really gets going. I'm trying to get more into it now, because it doesn't help the game at all.

 

And I secondAJ, good idea this...do you think any of those inactives are reading it! Because the ones here are not what I call inactives at all, infact you guys are someone of the ones that keep it going!

 

Just get Mynd in on a game and that keeps it active...lol

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Posted

I'm not sure how we could put a class like that together, to be honest.

 

I would definitely mod some beginner games anytime. I love basic mafia more than the big, fancy setups. I'd also play in them, since you want one or two experienced players in them.

Posted

Until he gets lynched :P

 

I don't like the idea of requirements to join games. I know one thing that helped me when I was new was reading games that had just completed. Because of that and having played mafia once at a party, I was able to jump into one of Talya's Christmas themed games relatively easily. Talya was of course very helpful that game so the mod can help a lot too.

Posted
  On 1/28/2011 at 11:07 PM, WWWwombat said:

Until he gets lynched :P

 

I don't like the idea of requirements to join games. I know one thing that helped me when I was new was reading games that had just completed. Because of that and having played mafia once at a party, I was able to jump into one of Talya's Christmas themed games relatively easily. Talya was of course very helpful that game so the mod can help a lot too.

But you were somewhat sure of yourself, right? And you're active now. I think if they feel SO unsure about themselves that they NEED to take a newbie game it should at least be OFFERED. At the moment, we're requiring them to jump into big and/or themed games for the first time and that's unfair and could turn people off of mafia because they think it's too complicated/hard.
Posted

I think a class cloud be a good idea, but I don't know that we should make it mandatory. I agree with Lily that those of who have been playing longer need to teach the newbies to be active by being active ourselves (I've never been very active at the beginning of a game, but I'm willing to be more outspoken and aggresive if it will help newbies see how they should play too); after all, that's how a lot of us learned in the first place.

 

Also, just wanted to say: key, you are one of the best newbies! In your first game you jumped right in rather than hanging back, that is awesome :biggrin:

 

I would love to do more beginner's games too. My first game was a beginner's game modded by Meesh, and it was awesome. It was only 12 players and very basic, yet she did make it interesting by throwing it a little twist: no healer; instead, she used an uncommonly used role, the Beloved Princess. Add to the fact that the player who had that role did a Day 1 reveal, and that game had plenty of activity and excitement from the start.

 

The standard games we run here on OG are kind of beginner's games, but I do question the limitation of the setups; sometimes I think that's why those games have such little activity, they get old really fast. Obviously a game should be checked by an OG mod to make sure it's still 'standard,' though.

 

Anyhow, I do think part of the problem was that, for a little while there, all the games being played were big games with lots of twists and odd roles, which isn't a bad thing. But I think maybe some players never learned to play without those things, so they never learned the basic of scumhunting, so to speak. Personally, after modding a big game like that, I can say I definitely prefer smaller games lol. Not so much because I got confused, but the game went on for too long, and it's really almost impossible to balance a game with so many roles and twists.

Posted

My first games were Hamlet, Zelda, and Tarot.

 

The Hamlet game I was Vanilla and didn't work out too well for me. For Zelda I was on a team with Aemon as Adult Link/Young Link, but that game stalled out. And for Tarot I was mafia with some very experienced players and learned a LOT there. I enjoyed my first games a lot, especially Tarot. hehe

 

Edit: I pushed publish too soon... I'm in absolute agreement with Alanna, actually. LOL. That's all...

Posted

I think having more, or at least one once in awhile, "basic" games is a really good idea. I had to jump right in - in the middle of a game no less - and it was confusing for a bit. Some of the games I'm playing right now are honestly super confusing and that makes it a lot harder to contribute when you're not even sure what you're supposed to be doing!

 

 

  On 1/28/2011 at 11:23 PM, Alanna said:

I think a class cloud be a good idea, but I don't know that we should make it mandatory. I agree with Lily that those of who have been playing longer need to teach the newbies to be active by being active ourselves (I've never been very active at the beginning of a game, but I'm willing to be more outspoken and aggresive if it will help newbies see how they should play too); after all, that's how a lot of us learned in the first place.

 

Also, just wanted to say: key, you are one of the best newbies! In your first game you jumped right in rather than hanging back, that is awesome :biggrin:

 

 

Fair enough, mandatory is probably not a good thing. It gets people riled up really quickly and might turn people away. Besides, what if they've played mafia on other sites, just not on DM?

 

Watching you more experienced players is DEFINITELY how us newbies learn. That's why I've been trying to keep myself at least kind of active in every game, but also why I sometimes hang back. I think ya'll being more outspoken will help, although I don't know abot aggressive. It certainly wouldn't turn me away, but it might others.

 

Thank you Alanna! *beams* I really appreciate that as, like I said, I've been trying to be a 'good' player!

Posted

LOL well I can't really see myself ever being super aggresive anyway :D I think what I mean is just pushing at people for reactions, from the start. Day 1 is always a lot of randomness and spam, and the only way to make more of it than that, I think, is to start questioning what people are saying, even if it just seems like silly spam. Some people may not like that and feel like they're being attacked for what they probably didn't mean seriously, but that's a part of mafia, and it does open the game to more on-topic discussion.

Posted

Mynd is basically my hero. My first game with hims was Talya's Lord of the Rings and he really changed my whole perspective on how the game should be played. I've been trying to get that same kind of frenetic energy going early in the game (not too successfully as far as staying alive is concerned) and hope that some of the newer players will pick up on it. We're all here to play and we can't play if no one talks.

 

On another subject, I would love to set up a mafia school. I have an idea to run basic games with 3 veterans and 9 new players. 1 veteran would be in charge of the mafia, another would be in charge of a mason group and the other would be there for thread support. The veterans would know each other and not be able to cast a vote unless their faction had, to their satisfaction, made the case against the player on thread. I think this could really help our new players develop their skills and make our games a whole lot more interesting in the future. All we have to do is invest the time to explain things to them and show them the right way to play.

 

By the way, Song, your in-your-face-play style is awesome and I love being in games with you. Just wanted to let you know.

 

Verb- if you give me the go ahead I can do a Mafia Class Firefly game. I have the one that hasn't been played yet that is a standard setup from the link here in the OG. What do you think?

Posted

Forgot to add my 2 cents on some other topics .

 

Blacklist: bad, bad, bad. It publicly humiliates the person and that will cause tensions and they will tell their friends and it will go on and on. I am MUCH more in favor of Invitation Only games if you have serious issues with some players. That is really the only way you will get the people you want in your game. I did it with the Movie Monsters game (I think Red mentioned that) and activity was awesome until everyone found out about the Minesetter. That killed activity. I do not reccomend that role unless you seriously want people to STOP posting. Anyway, I think invitation games would be best if you do not want certain people in your sign up list.

Posted

LOL. That would be an interesting experience, but you are correct. What I would like to teach them is how to play the game instead of just be in it, if you get my meaning. you don't have to be Mynd to be active and throw out your ideas.

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