Aviendha Revalation

[Guest UMamedov]

It seems to me that Aviendha's Towers of Midnight ter'angreal experience gives us a setting for a continuation of the Wheel of Time Series. In an attempt to keep a marvelous story alive, Aviendha's viewing gives Sanderson a chance to continue the story, which revolves mainly around the Children of the Dragon. I, at the very least hope this to be true.

[Muad Cheade]

I think it just showed a possible future.

[Haldir1980]

I also think it is possible future and warning to Aviendha what might happen?

[Grandis]

I think it showed the worst possible future, from Avi's point of view. After all, as far as Avi is conserned, that future could not conceivably have been worse. I think her specific kind of vision, ie. worst case scenario, was caused by her disappointment at how easy her time through the ter'angreal was. She wanted something more challenging; she got that in spades.

 

It's possible that anyone going through the t'a would have had a similarly bad experience from their own point of view, but it seems like what the t'a gave her catered too much to her desires at the time. Go in with a different frame of mind and you might get a different experience. Of course, this is pure speculation and should be taken as such.

[Simo]

I wonder if Avi will be marked like Rand and be the Wisest of Wiseones...LoL

[ironchefofmunchies]

I'm just glad they finally gave Avi something else to DO in this series. She went from awesome in TSR/TFOH to irrelevant in the last 5 books.

 

Even when they gave her a cool talent (reading ter'angreal) she used it for like 2 minutes and then it was just dropped. "Oh, I have to go hang around Wise Ones and move water around with my finger! THAT'S more important!"... puh-leeze!

[Mandro]

Aviendha is strict in her following of the ways of the Aiel, I think It showed what she would create if she remained unbending. Like her brief insinuation that she wanted to kill min, before correcting herself. She knows, and believes the things that rand brought to the aiel but is still in denial.

 

Less a prophecy, more a slap in the face.

[randsc]

I thnk we will find that the glass columns work in a way similar to the ter'angreal used in the tests for Accepted and Aes Sedai. They show a POSSIBLE future.

[navahgar]

What about the possibility that this was a trick by the Forsaken? There was that woman that Aviendha saw in the desert who was a bit mysterious, and then right after she's given a viewing of a dystopian future. Maybe that woman was a Forsaken (Graendal, Cyndane, Moghedien?) in disguise and tricked Aviendha in order to try and ruin Rand's plans by making Aviendha try and stop them. If that's the case, then which one? Cyndane knows who Aviendha is, and has been to Rhuidean before, and has apparently been given the mission to hurt Rand, so this is one possibility. Moghedien is unlikely because she's had no real involvement for a while, but as 'the spider' she's a possibility. Graendal could be doing it because she's not incapacitated yet, so she's available, and it seems like her style to manipulate like this. But she seems more focused on Perrin (and Tuon?) so I think she's unlikely. Net result, I suspect that this is part of Cyndane's plotting against Rand, and that 'future' was not legit.

[jemron]

Are you saying you hope BWS will continue the story beyond the next (and supposedly FINAL) book? I sure hope not. It certainly isn't fair to Brandon, nor to his fans for his original work...

 

My personal opinion is that these books should end forever with AMOL. I don't want to see the prequels (unless they were written by someone other than Brandon, maybe...) and I don't want to see more books after aMoL (like the outriggers). Not because I don't like the story (i LOVE it) but because I think some good things just need to end, before they become terrible things (look at American TV shows).

 

Anyway, maybe I misread your post, but I think that what Avi saw was only a "possible, but likely future" if she doesn't make some serious decisions that will dramatically effect the attitude of the Aiel towards "Wetlanders" and others.

[Majsju]

Considering that RJs planned outriggers were about Mat and Tuon going to the Seanchan continent some ten years after TG, I would say that Avi saw a possible, but very unlikely future.

[bobarose]

Aviendha`s future visions were meant to hurt her.I think the Shadow is touching all power made items.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

Considering that RJs planned outriggers were about Mat and Tuon going to the Seanchan continent some ten years after TG, I would say that Avi saw a possible, but very unlikely future.

 

 

Seems very likely to me. The Aiel are largely based in part off of Native Americans who were wiped out by the coming of an invasion from over the sea. The allegory is certainly strong that the Aiel might be wiped out by a fight with a technologically superior force from across the ocean in much the same way the Native Americans were virtually wiped out.

 

It's an ending that makes sense and adheres to a lot of the prophecies. The remnant of the remnant of the Aiel that remain will be the Tinkers and the Shaido who fled to the Waste (therefore never starting/getting involved in hostilities with the Seanchan).

[johnbranflake]

"What does it mean that he ‘shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf’?" Moraine Sedai quoting the Karaethon Cycle tDR. The People of the Dragon are the Aiel. It seems clear that Aviendha and Rand will return the Aiel to the Way of the Leaf.

[fikkie77]

I believe that part has been forfilled. Rand destroyed the Aiel by declaring that he saw the history of the Aiel in Rhuidean... that they followed the Way of the Leaf.

[Ashandarei]

What about the possibility that this was a trick by the Forsaken? There was that woman that Aviendha saw in the desert who was a bit mysterious, and then right after she's given a viewing of a dystopian future. Maybe that woman was a Forsaken (Graendal, Cyndane, Moghedien?) in disguise and tricked Aviendha in order to try and ruin Rand's plans by making Aviendha try and stop them. If that's the case, then which one? Cyndane knows who Aviendha is, and has been to Rhuidean before, and has apparently been given the mission to hurt Rand, so this is one possibility. Moghedien is unlikely because she's had no real involvement for a while, but as 'the spider' she's a possibility. Graendal could be doing it because she's not incapacitated yet, so she's available, and it seems like her style to manipulate like this. But she seems more focused on Perrin (and Tuon?) so I think she's unlikely. Net result, I suspect that this is part of Cyndane's plotting against Rand, and that 'future' was not legit.

 

The questions that Nakomi, the woman you mentioned, asks Avi and the other statements she makes are more making Avi think about her own preconceptions, not really focused by any kind of mal-intent. Also, if you're willing to take a few minutes to read it, here's a link to a decent theory placing Nakomi as Verin. While I don't think she did any Dreaming stuff, that she arrived simply by gateway which is the sound at the beginning, the theory makes good correlations between the two characters.

 

Edit- Forgot to put the link! Nakomi is Verin

[MatthewSaint]

It seems to me that Aviendha's Towers of Midnight ter'angreal experience gives us a setting for a continuation of the Wheel of Time Series. In an attempt to keep a marvelous story alive, Aviendha's viewing gives Sanderson a chance to continue the story, which revolves mainly around the Children of the Dragon. I, at the very least hope this to be true.

 

I don't know about a continuing of the series, but ever since reading this sequence, I've wondered if there isn't something else being said. It seems like Aviendha isn't just seeing the danger to the Aiel, but the danger of the Seanchan allowed to continue as they are as well.

 

Aviendha gets to see a path in which the Aiel are lost because Rand doesn't end up giving them a definition in the new world that's created post LB. In that vision, it's known that Rand did bow before the Seanchan Empress, putting himself beneath them. This seemed to allow them to assert their position and didn't address the problems with enslaved power wielders.

 

There might be another clue about this in the title, Towers of Midnight. The appendix states

Since the Consolidation, the Towers have remained unoccupied. Legend has it that when a time of dire need comes, the Imperial family will return to the Towers and "right that which is wrong"

 

Just as Aviendha's warned of the future of the Aiel, maybe the title itself is a warning about the Seanchan threat if their prophecies come true and their evil isn't addressed. Maybe the wrong to be righted is the enslavement, and maybe Mat/Tuon will need to do this during the LB? Since this was where the a'dam were created, maybe locked away is the key to their undoing?

 

We don't know what their prophecies say, but know that Elan Morin/Ishmael messed with them. So the Seanchan may be thinking everything they're doing is fine, but if the Randland folks let them continue on that way, that a future as bleak as Aviendha saw is inevitable regardless of who the Aiel become.

[Nygma7]

Just as Aviendha's warned of the future of the Aiel, maybe the title itself is a warning about the Seanchan threat if their prophecies come true and their evil isn't addressed. Maybe the wrong to be righted is the enslavement, and maybe Mat/Tuon will need to do this during the LB?

Could be, but I think it was more about the Aiel themselves. They're too rigid in their vision of ji'e'toh, too quick to fight.

 

While the Seanchan leashing damane is a great evil, their willingness to abide by the peace makes them containable. It's hard for people to live for a long time beside other nations where Aes Sedai are not chained and not start to question whether or not their ways are messed up. Also, by fighting, the Aiel kept handing over more and more channelers to live chained by the Seanchan.

 

By refusing to abide by the pact, the Aiel of the future not only destroyed themselves, they destroyed the rest of Randland as well by dragging them (by deceit) into their conflict. Basically, the vision shows the Seanchan as just too powerful. The Aiel were bashing their heads against a brick wall, when there was the opportunity to live in peace.

 

I think Aviendha, a former Maiden of the Spear, is going to have to be the Wise One to say, "We need to swallow our pride and try diplomacy with the Seanchan." The Aiel have never met their match in battle before, but the Seanchan are it.

[MatthewSaint]

I just can't see how leaving the Seanchan as is would be safe for Randland even if the Aiel were to switch to the WOTL. It seems clear that they were pretty much intact. I don't see how Rand bowing, and acquiescing to clearly inane demands would be good. It parallels moment in our own history where we befriended monsters to end a greater evil, and did nothing to handle a threat and suffered more for it.

 

It's clear Aviendha, like you say, was given those visions to ensure that something be done to improve the lot of the Aiel. I just hope that she passes on the rest of what she learned so that they'd not face any part of a future with an empowered Seanchan empire.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

It seems to me that Aviendha's Towers of Midnight ter'angreal experience gives us a setting for a continuation of the Wheel of Time Series. In an attempt to keep a marvelous story alive, Aviendha's viewing gives Sanderson a chance to continue the story, which revolves mainly around the Children of the Dragon. I, at the very least hope this to be true.

 

I don't know about a continuing of the series, but ever since reading this sequence, I've wondered if there isn't something else being said. It seems like Aviendha isn't just seeing the danger to the Aiel, but the danger of the Seanchan allowed to continue as they are as well.

 

Aviendha gets to see a path in which the Aiel are lost because Rand doesn't end up giving them a definition in the new world that's created post LB. In that vision, it's known that Rand did bow before the Seanchan Empress, putting himself beneath them. This seemed to allow them to assert their position and didn't address the problems with enslaved power wielders.

 

There might be another clue about this in the title, Towers of Midnight. The appendix states

Since the Consolidation, the Towers have remained unoccupied. Legend has it that when a time of dire need comes, the Imperial family will return to the Towers and "right that which is wrong"

 

Just as Aviendha's warned of the future of the Aiel, maybe the title itself is a warning about the Seanchan threat if their prophecies come true and their evil isn't addressed. Maybe the wrong to be righted is the enslavement, and maybe Mat/Tuon will need to do this during the LB? Since this was where the a'dam were created, maybe locked away is the key to their undoing?

 

We don't know what their prophecies say, but know that Elan Morin/Ishmael messed with them. So the Seanchan may be thinking everything they're doing is fine, but if the Randland folks let them continue on that way, that a future as bleak as Aviendha saw is inevitable regardless of who the Aiel become.

 

 

How is the future bleak? Seanchan expansion seems to be a good future. They are a stable and progressive society who put the welfare of the common people on the highest pedestal. Likewise they are technologically advanced people who always seek to better themselves and invent new contraptions. The post-TG world would benefit from a stronger Seanchan influence on the path of humanity. Certainly the loss of a couple of overly aggressive abrasive backwards desert-dwelling nomads isn't all too tragic when considering the benefits to arise out of the entire affair.

[capuga]

It seems to me that Aviendha's Towers of Midnight ter'angreal experience gives us a setting for a continuation of the Wheel of Time Series. In an attempt to keep a marvelous story alive, Aviendha's viewing gives Sanderson a chance to continue the story, which revolves mainly around the Children of the Dragon. I, at the very least hope this to be true.

 

I don't know about a continuing of the series, but ever since reading this sequence, I've wondered if there isn't something else being said. It seems like Aviendha isn't just seeing the danger to the Aiel, but the danger of the Seanchan allowed to continue as they are as well.

 

Aviendha gets to see a path in which the Aiel are lost because Rand doesn't end up giving them a definition in the new world that's created post LB. In that vision, it's known that Rand did bow before the Seanchan Empress, putting himself beneath them. This seemed to allow them to assert their position and didn't address the problems with enslaved power wielders.

 

There might be another clue about this in the title, Towers of Midnight. The appendix states

Since the Consolidation, the Towers have remained unoccupied. Legend has it that when a time of dire need comes, the Imperial family will return to the Towers and "right that which is wrong"

 

Just as Aviendha's warned of the future of the Aiel, maybe the title itself is a warning about the Seanchan threat if their prophecies come true and their evil isn't addressed. Maybe the wrong to be righted is the enslavement, and maybe Mat/Tuon will need to do this during the LB? Since this was where the a'dam were created, maybe locked away is the key to their undoing?

 

We don't know what their prophecies say, but know that Elan Morin/Ishmael messed with them. So the Seanchan may be thinking everything they're doing is fine, but if the Randland folks let them continue on that way, that a future as bleak as Aviendha saw is inevitable regardless of who the Aiel become.

 

 

How is the future bleak? Seanchan expansion seems to be a good future. They are a stable and progressive society who put the welfare of the common people on the highest pedestal. Likewise they are technologically advanced people who always seek to better themselves and invent new contraptions. The post-TG world would benefit from a stronger Seanchan influence on the path of humanity. Certainly the loss of a couple of overly aggressive abrasive backwards desert-dwelling nomads isn't all too tragic when considering the benefits to arise out of the entire affair.

 

The Seanchan will need to change their stance on damane and da'covale before I consider their rule over Randland to be palatable. Could Randland benefit from their effecient beaucracy and stability? Sure, but I would prefer to see it happen through a sharing and merging of ideas and cultures learning from the best parts of others, and not from Seanchan conquest.

 

And the Aiel are a noble and honorable people. Overly aggressive? Sure, and they would need to moderate their aggression if they plan to remain in the wetlands rather than isolating themselves in the waste. But we have seen them to be a very honorable and capable culture and certainly not deserving of genocide.

[randsc]

It seems to me that Aviendha's Towers of Midnight ter'angreal experience gives us a setting for a continuation of the Wheel of Time Series. In an attempt to keep a marvelous story alive, Aviendha's viewing gives Sanderson a chance to continue the story, which revolves mainly around the Children of the Dragon. I, at the very least hope this to be true.

 

I don't know about a continuing of the series, but ever since reading this sequence, I've wondered if there isn't something else being said. It seems like Aviendha isn't just seeing the danger to the Aiel, but the danger of the Seanchan allowed to continue as they are as well.

 

Aviendha gets to see a path in which the Aiel are lost because Rand doesn't end up giving them a definition in the new world that's created post LB. In that vision, it's known that Rand did bow before the Seanchan Empress, putting himself beneath them. This seemed to allow them to assert their position and didn't address the problems with enslaved power wielders.

 

There might be another clue about this in the title, Towers of Midnight. The appendix states

Since the Consolidation, the Towers have remained unoccupied. Legend has it that when a time of dire need comes, the Imperial family will return to the Towers and "right that which is wrong"

 

Just as Aviendha's warned of the future of the Aiel, maybe the title itself is a warning about the Seanchan threat if their prophecies come true and their evil isn't addressed. Maybe the wrong to be righted is the enslavement, and maybe Mat/Tuon will need to do this during the LB? Since this was where the a'dam were created, maybe locked away is the key to their undoing?

 

We don't know what their prophecies say, but know that Elan Morin/Ishmael messed with them. So the Seanchan may be thinking everything they're doing is fine, but if the Randland folks let them continue on that way, that a future as bleak as Aviendha saw is inevitable regardless of who the Aiel become.

 

 

How is the future bleak? Seanchan expansion seems to be a good future. They are a stable and progressive society who put the welfare of the common people on the highest pedestal. Likewise they are technologically advanced people who always seek to better themselves and invent new contraptions. The post-TG world would benefit from a stronger Seanchan influence on the path of humanity. Certainly the loss of a couple of overly aggressive abrasive backwards desert-dwelling nomads isn't all too tragic when considering the benefits to arise out of the entire affair.

 

Yeah, sure they put the welfare of the common people on the highest pedestal. Except for the very large numbers of those people who end up as property.

 

Seanchan is a vile, fascistic state. "Stability" isn't always a virtue.

 

Personally, I would always choose to live in Malpais rather than The World State.

[Ashandarei]

How is the future bleak? Seanchan expansion seems to be a good future. They are a stable and progressive society who put the welfare of the common people on the highest pedestal. Likewise they are technologically advanced people who always seek to better themselves and invent new contraptions. The post-TG world would benefit from a stronger Seanchan influence on the path of humanity. Certainly the loss of a couple of overly aggressive abrasive backwards desert-dwelling nomads isn't all too tragic when considering the benefits to arise out of the entire affair.

 

Stable? Seanchan is in the middle of a massive civil war right now because of the death of the empress. Progressive? The backwardness of the concept of da'covale/property as slaves is second only to the disgusting treatment of female channelers as animals. They rely routinely and in the highest and supposedly most "knowledgeable" circles on superstition such as counting owl hooting for omens.

 

Secondly, the Aiel have a greatly different lifestyle from the "wetlanders" but calling them backwards is just showing prejudice against their ways. This series is set in a time when a steam-wagon invention is considered marvelous- by your definition, everybody in WoT is "backwards." And lastly, as Grayson mentioned, no matter how "aggressive" you may think they are, the genocide of an entire people couldn't be anything BUT tragic.

[Canis Rufus]

My impression of these events was something that would crush her spirit, before it was their past that they had to live with. They faced a horrifying truth that tested their character to their very core. So Avi had to face something so terrible that she would have to make the best decision for her people. So I think it is the future as of now. If Avi is not a great Wise one and lead her people with this wisdom then this is the life they will face. So she must carry that and learn wisdom from it.