Logain

[Thorum]

What do you think of the Logain-setup by the Red Ajah?

 

Was he made False Dragon by them????

[Kadere]

No, Suian just made it up to gather support from the rebels, and to cause Elida trouble. It's a total shame.

[Gentled Ben]

I'm with Kadere on this one, except to say that it's more of a sham than a shame.

[Kadere]

:P ok, I can't spell, ment sham.

[Gentled Ben]

Yeah, but leave the word shame, too; that way, more bases are covered. If this becomes one of those 4-page topics that ends up being about something entirely different, you can always jump back in (at some appropriate point) and say, "Well, like I said at the very beginning, 'it's a shame!'" :lol:

[Guest cwestervelt]

I found the books to be quite clear about it being a total fabrication of Suian's. I don't believe we were intended to see it as anything else.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Logains incentive to lie was that it would be his chance to strike at the Red Ajah for gentling him. I think Logain is a good character-i liked it when Nynaeve Healed him and panicked, yet he was calm and lied about being Healed.

[Gentled Ben]

Logain's cool. I can't wait for him to tear Taim to shreds!

[Mystica]

Logain is the true hero in my book. He was used, abused, cast aside, used and abused again and now is forced to answer to one he knows is evil.

His intentions were always good, his will to fight for the light true. He does what he can to keep as many ashaman from under Taim's clutches while still obeying Rand's insane order to defer to that Forsaken-in-taim-clothes. Honestly, Rand is often as blind as a bat in full daylight.

 

Logain is a true man as far as I'm concerned. Strong, resourceful, committed to the light and doesn't fall to petty things like revenge, bitterness, powertrips or anything like that. Proof of that is his dealings with the sisters he and his bonded. He could make their lives a hell of a lot more difficult if he wanted.

[Luckers]

Logain's as much a child as Rand. He wants his own way and throws tantrums when he doesn't get it.

[Genesis_XVI]

Rand isn't short-sighted or childish!!!!!!!!!! Jordan has cloaked him in a shroud of inaction and mystery, but the fact remains he's playing for keeps. He sees the battle on a much larger scale and acts accordingly. While what he does isn't as interesting as 'a gallant charge from the cavalry' I think Rand knows the score better than many give him credit for. He has fooled the forsaken, and putting his plight and position into context, he is greater than any. Lan thinks the battle can be one by a surgical assault on the blight, everyone else seems to thinks some direct action along the same lines is required. I think Rand is playing a waiting game, and as infuriating as it is, he ain't stupid.

 

That's my rant for the day :)

 

-Genesis_XVI

 

PS- I agree with you all on the Logain fabrication. But I think the Red Ajah will have to answer for what Caddy refers to as the 'unpleasantness'. I also believe that while Logain's case may be a fabrication, that's not to say the Red haven't done such things in the past.

[Luckers]

Rand is petulant. He gets his way by riding roughshod over any opposition. He postures and likes to be held as the alpha male. Classic teenage behaviour. Look to his meeting with Logain. Instead of using the man, and binding him to him as an ally like he should he postures and throws a tantrum because he's feeling threatened. Don't get me wrong, i like Rand, and understand why he is that way, but he needs to grow up.

 

This is a big part of what Cadsuane is dealing with. What happens when your a teenager and people respond to your tantrums with calm disdain. You change, you start finding more intelligent or subtle ways to respond, and thats a lesson in power that people need to learn, but Rand never did because he grew too powerful too fast.

[Kaznen]

I answered yes. I don't think it involved all the reds but the AS who were behind it were red.

 

Why? It could be they knew the Dragon was reborn and they were trying to flush him out, or maybe the AS would get more glory taking down a false dragon then just another guy who could channel. But I think there was more in play then just a guy wanting glory.

 

BTW: I don't think Taim was an AS conspiricy.

[Mystica]

lol Genesis, I like Rand too and yes, you are right when saying a lot of his successes are based on him not doing what anyone expects.

However, what Lucker says is true too. Rand IS immature in many ways, which is understandable given the speed with which things happened for him. That combined with Rand's rather stubborn nature doesn't make for a very mature attitude.

 

 

@ Luckers: I'm sorry, but I don't agree on the Logain part. I have not seen him throw a tantrum because he didn't get his way. He does present his ideas and views and defends them with passion, yes. But I don't see that as throwing a tantrum.

We shouldn't forget that he hàs had quite some success himself, even if he wasn't the real Dragon. So it's only fair for him to present his views on certain matters.

In the end, though, he does what is asked of him, despite disagreements between him and Rand.

It's no easy thing to do at this point in the books to confront Rand knowing full well it might cost you your life. There's only a handfull of men who dare to do it, and Logain is one of them.

To me it seems those are the ones Rand can truelly trust as they won't just kiss his behind for the sake of it.

 

Like said, not wanting to push my ideas, just presenting them as I feel it.

[Mystica]

Did the Reds have a hand in Logain's proclamation?

 

I honestly don't know. Though the books do hint at it being a fabrication of Siuan, I wouldn't put it past the Reds. Maybe the Reds didn't outright push him to it, but it might be that they ignored it for a while, giving him the time to do what he did.

 

Being the experts in hunting down men that can channel, I find it rather strange that both Logain and Taim had enough time to get so far before being confronted by sisters.

 

The Reds probably didn't push either of them, but maybe they let things be for a while. Which wouldn't be a new tactic for any aes sedai. It would fit right in with their manipulative ways.

[Luckers]

Logain and Rand's reactions to each other were incredibly schoolyard, and that is foolish.

 

The Red Ajah plot was a complete fabrication by Suine.

[Mystica]

pssssssst, it's Siuan

 

*grins and sprints off*

[KeithC]

Is it just me, or is Logain a bit of a suspicious character? I really want to like him, he is definatly one of the coolest characters in the series and I really want to believe that he is actually a good guy, but I just cannot bring myself to. There are a number of reasons.

 

1. Logain has been channeling for a good while (and had been well before Rand cleaned the taint) and never showed any signs of insanity. How could this be? Oh right, the DO shielded the male Forsaken from the taint...

 

2. Egwene's dream about Logain stepping over Rand's body to sit on a throne and laugh evilly.

 

3. The air of competetion between Logain and Rand when they are together.

 

4. RJ stating that Taim is not Demandodred (sp). If he is not Taim, that does not leave many other options, and Logain is the prime candidate. Why?

a. Demandodred was a great general for LTT before he went bad, kinda like Logain is acting like now for Rand.

b. Demandodred was always jealous to the point of loathing of LTT, kinda like how Logain feels the need to compete with Rand when they are together.

 

While I will admit that Logain does a very good job of acting noble and good, I feel like Demandodred must have some good in him somewhere (or at least the ability to act like he does), and because of his jealousy of the Dragon, what better reason to use it than to try to make himself appear to be a better leader than the chosen one who is supposed to be saving the world.

 

I don't want Logain to be Demandodred, but if Taim really isn't, then I would be very surprised if Logain was not.

[cannon]

RJ has said that we have not yet seen Demandred in any "alter-ego" or disguise, therefore Logain could not be Demandred. Not to mention the fact that Logain was shown in TEOTW well before the forsaken were free.

 

Q: "Have we yet seen the alter ego Demandred presents to the Third Agers on-screen?"

A: "No." (I asked twice to make sure.)

 

[Michael Martin, Dayton OH signing]

 

It was a Crossroads of Twilight signing (I think).

[Bob T Dwarf]

Oh, no. The Forsaken were already free by the time of The Eye of the World. Some had been free for years. Semirhage, for instance, was already building her power base and establishing herself in Seanchan.

 

It's just that nobody knew they were free yet.

[cannon]

No, the Forsaken only began to be freed by the end of the TEOTW. The first ones free were Aginor and Bathamel who immediately went after the Eye of the World. They were the first freed because they were closest to the "surface", which is why their bodies did not look as good as the others.

 

The rest of the Forsaken awoke either between TEOTW and TGH or during TGH. They then inserted themselves into various positions of power and quickly built up their power bases.

 

Every single one of the Forsaken which had large power bases (Be'lal, Sammael, Rahvin, Semirage) all came out of no where and quickly climbed the ranks. They had not been around very long at all.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Reread, tEotW.

 

Rand encounters Sammael almost as soon as he sets foot outside the Two Rivers.

 

Many had been awake for a long time. They were learning the lay of the land and planning how to make their moves and causing as much incidental trouble as they could along the way. A LOT got changed once Jordan and his publisher decided to expand beyond a Trilogy.

 

Anath got appointed as Tuon's Truthspeaker by the Empress herself some time before Tuon left Seanchan for Randland. Check the timelines. If we use the ~6 month timeframe of the others establishing their powerbases after they'd decided where to light, that means Semi was coming to prominence in Seanchan society before tEotW started.

[demonspawn]

Where exactly does Rand meet Sammael? Either I've got a faulty copy of EOTW or I've just missed it completely.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Go dancing.

[demonspawn]

It was a simple enough question, all I wanted to know was where did he encounter Sammael?