A Memory of Light Speculation

[AshaShan]

OK. I think I'll try and predict the entire book now, just for laughs. If nothing else it'll be intersting to compare this post to the real book once its released.

 

My belief is that Merrilor is a trap Rand has laid for the White Tower. The Seals are just the excuse he used to get everyone there, and saving them from Rand is also just the excuse that Egwene has told herself to justify trying to get everyone under her and the White Tower's control. Just as he knew she would. Egwene's dream of the cracked sphere and the 23 stars is symbolic of the Tower and the Hall (7 Ajahs with 3 Sitters each plus a Keeper and an Amyrlin). He wants her to confront him directly, publically, while surrounded by people she thinks will follow her, and while thinking him relatively weak. He'll bring only a token force of Asha'man, a select few of the sworn sisters, and most of the Aiel will be left elsewhere, even Callandor will likely be left in his tent safely warded. He'll steer the meeting towards a confrontation while trying to make it seem like Egwene is being belligerent, reveal enough information about the Seals to convince people to trust him but wont spell it out in enough detail to satisfy Egwene. It'll be a delicate political dance, but it will end with the various factions siding with Rand and Egwene left out in the cold. I suspect only Elayne will side with her when all has been said and done, with Perrin's campaiging on Rand's behalf having played a large part in persuading the others. Egwene will be angry at this perceived betrayal by forces she thinks should be loyal to the Tower, especially the likes of Cadsuane. He'll have forced her hand, and since she'll believe herself in the strongest position, having hundreds of channelers behind her to Rand's dozen or so she'll shield and bind him and his followers using the circles that she and the Aes Sedai at the table with her are focusing. She'll have played right into his hands.

 

See whether shes right that he can break a shield woven by a full circle, or whether Rand now has the same channeling ability we saw in his daughter by Aviendha and simply can't be shielded since he no longer needs to reach for the Source, Egwene's attack wont be enough to stop him. Rand will easily defeat the Aes Sedai with Egwene, free the outraged dignitaries nearby and summon the five hundred or so Asha'man currently under his direct command, who hes had standing by. A tense standoff will ensue between them and the White Towers forces. Rand will be oh so shocked and dissapointed in Egwene's betrayal and proceed to scold the Aes Sedai on their various shortcomings while urging the other monarchs, as subtly as he can, to do the same. The kidnapping of Mattin Stepaneos and Alsalam of Arad Doman will be raised, the rebellions provoked in Cairhein, others. Dumai's Wells and the attack on the Black Tower will come up. It will be revealed that Rand has been questioning the Aes Sedai sworn to him closely about the White Towers traditions over the past month, preparing for this meeting. He'll order them to testify and they'll have no choice but to do so. The nature of the test to become Aes Sedai, ranking themselves by strength, the truth of the Oath Rod, it will all come out in the most public forum imaginable with the Power being used to amplify the words exchanged so everyone in the assembled armies can hear.

 

Among other crimes he'll lay at their feet will be the Warder bond and the fact it can be used to compel people. He did promise Egwene he'd discuss it with her there after all. He'll accuse her of plotting to leash the Asha'man just like the sul'dam plot to leash Aes Sedai and demand that all bonds that can be used to control the minds of another person be dissolved and outlawed. Both those made by Aes Sedai and those made by Asha'man. He'll point out that the Asha'man possess a different kind of bond, the one used by guys like Grady that has the same effect as the old bond but no compulsion, and insist the Aes Sedai develope a similar one. This will be the real reason he is called the breaker of bonds in the prophecies.

 

Rand will accuse Egwene and the Aes Sedai of being predjudiced against male channelers and indeed males in general. He'll point out that her belief that she is superior to him despite his accomplishments, knowledge, strength and skill surpassing hers is no more than base sexism and wonder aloud how he can trust her to leave his Asha'man unmolested when he is gone. He'll demand she publically acknowledge the M'hael as the Amyrlin Seat's equal and that she swear to defer to Rand's judgement as the First Among Servants, revealing it as the title of the elected leader of the original and only true Aes Sedai and claiming it his by rights, a title that surpasses that of Amyrlin. A title he wants to expand now to be First Among Servants and Guardians, but which the Shadow Prophecy in TOM will mock as First Among Vermin.

 

Egwene will be furious, she'll be hearing accusations and demands the likes of which no-one in the series has ever dared speak to her and few would ever dare speak to any Aes Sedai. She'll call Rand an arrogant fool and reject his terms outright. Moiraine, who will have arrived at the meeting with Mat and Thom will speak on Rand's behalf and urge Egwene to accept that Rand outranks her, fulfilling the dream of Thom bringing evidence to Egwene's trial. That, along with Cadsuane and Nynaeve siding with Rand will shake Egwene's resolve. And that will be when the real bombshell drops. A desperate messenger arrives from Tar Valon to inform the Amyrlin that the Seanchan have attacked with overwhelming force. Many times the numbers that the White Tower can muster. Egwene will call on the various leaders present to aid her in saving the Tower, but they will refuse and declare their loyalty to Rand, saying they will fight where he sends them. Rand will say only that the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. If the White Tower wants his protection the White Tower must offer its service as payment. Egwene must either meet Rand's terms and bow to his authority, or return to Tar Valon and fight the Seanchan Empire alone. Egwene will be left with no choice, she bows to Rand and the two towers are united as one, which is perhaps what the Aelfinn meant when they said "the two must be as one".

 

News of the attack on Caemlyn will have arrived by this time, perhaps even simultaneously with the news of Tar Valon's peril so as to prevent Elayne from sending troops there. Due to their personal relationship, Rand will hesitate to demand fealty of her in exchange for his help in the way that he did of the Borderland monarchs and instead will require the various rulers to swear the Dragon's Peace and institute a Ten Nations-like alliance of mutual defense.

 

The Seals will be broken. Rand will either do it himself or give one each to Perrin and Mat and the three ta'veren will break them simultaneously. I favor the latter; with sword, hammer and spear striking as one.

 

At this point more reports begin arriving from all corners of the world. The status of the borderlands, and the news of Taim's betrayal at the Black Tower carried back by Naeff, Genhald and Pevara will be revealed. Rand will organise and dispatch his forces. Perrin and the dreamwalkers will be assigned to help with the dreamspike at the Black Tower. Elayne will rush back to Caemlyn. Nynaeve and a portion of the Borderlander army will be sent to help Lan at Tarwin's Gap, with a mixed force of Aiel and Borderlanders being sent to other areas under the joint command of Davram Bashere and Bael, due to their already established working relationship. Bashere, alas, is doomed and will be the Broken Wolf from the shadow prophecy, being as he is next in line for the Broken Crown and carries the wolfshead baton of the Marshal-General of Saldaea.

 

Mat will need to return to Tar Valon to recover the Horn of Valere and have a word with his wife. The Halls of Mourning will be the halls of the White Tower, either newly conquered by the Seanchan or heavily besieged.

 

Aviendha will arrive with a pressing need to discuss the future with Rand and accompany him to wherever he goes after the meeting at Merrilor breaks up.

 

Rand himself I think will want to deal with the Black Tower situation before going to Shayol Ghul, he'd be best suited to sort the darkfriends from the misguided and forcibly turned. He'll lead a mixed force of Asha'man and Red Ajah there to confront Taim and hopefully undo the forced turnings, linking up with an irate Logain in the process. Yet more apologies will have to be forthcoming there I think. Ultimately, Taim will go down, either at Logain's hand or at Rand's and Logain will become the new M'hael. A title that, as per Rand's terms to Egwene will make him the equal of the Amyrlin Seat. Certainly a glory few men in the Wheel of Time would ever have dreamed of.

 

Aviendha, meanwhile will have convinced Rand that kneeling to the Seanchan Empress will not fix the problems between them and that a more permanent solution is neccesary. Rand and Logain will lead the Black Tower to Tar Valon to join Egwene in facing Fortuona. Neither side will give an inch, until Rand proposes getting an outside force to arbitrate. He tells Fortuona that Mat is the Hornsounder and proposes having him summon the spirit of Artur Hawkwing to mediate their dispute. He will bow to Hawkwing's judgement if the Empress will swear to do the same. Tuon agrees.

 

Hawkwing will hear both sides and ultimately rebuke the Seanchan for corrupting his dream of a united land. He will speak out against such practises as da'covale and urge that channelers be given the opportunity to serve the civilian government in an honorable fashion just as any other person could. Alivia will be on hand and Hawkwing will point to her as an example of a channeler serving loyally without being collared. Then he will formally adopt Rand as Rand al'Thor Paendrag and declare him his Voice, saying that Fortuona should defer to Rand rather than the other way around. The captured Aes Sedai are freed and Mat leads the armies of Seanchan against the Shadow.

 

Demandred will die in unspectacular fashion at the battle for Caemlyn, having led his Murandian dupes into attacking Andor. A mere artillary strike will do for him.

 

The battles at Tarwin's Gap and Caemlyn will result in heavy casualties but all the main characters will survive. Perrin's army will have helped Elayne while he was busy in tel'aran'rhiod. Once he hooks back up with it he'll go to take over for the fallen Bashere in the Borderlands. Nynaeve and Lan will push forwards into what was once Malkier.

 

Rand will gather a small, hand picked force to lead to Shayol Ghul. But first he'll stage a raid on Moridin's fortress, the location of which he learns through his dreams, intending to kill or capture Cyndane. Nynaeve, of course, will be part of it and have the inevitable rematch with Moghedien. This time the Spider goes down for good. Moridin escapes but not before Rand snatches Cyndane's coursouvra from him. Mierin becomes an uneasy ally. They discuss old times, most specifically the opening of the Bore.

 

Various battles, major and minor will be mentioned throughout the book but given minimal screen time, how many Trollocs can you describe dying after all. The Ogier will join the fighting thanks to Loial. Ituralde will continue to own all who stand before him. Asha'man and Aes Sedai will provide mixed circles that do impressive damage, especially when using the advanced weaves Rand has demonstrated. Egwene and Logain will work together in an uneasy fashion. Gawyn will use those bloodknife rings and die heroically. But the Dark One's power to warp reality will be the real danger.

 

Shayol Ghul, when we get there will be a relatively small battle. Mat and Perrin wont be coming, they are needed with their armies. Instead it will be between a select group of heavy hitters. Shaidar Haran, Moridin, Fain, Nynaeve, Cadsuane, Moiraine, and Rand of course. Moridin will kill Cadsuane, her paralis-net being unable to protect her from the True Power. Shaidar Haran goes down to Fain. Fain to Rand. Moridin will be allowed to access as much of the True Power as he wants in order to stop Rand. But instead of fighting him Rand will form a circle of three with Nynaeve and Mierin both of which he will have described his original design for the Seal to, the one that uses both saidin and saidar, that Latra Posae refused to help make. While they seal the Bore Rand goes inside it with Callandor in hand but unable to channel himself. Instead he will act as a barrier between the Dark One and the world. Callandor being able to amplify the taint, which is related to the True Power will turn out to mean it can be used to channel the true power as well, which Rand due to his connection to Moridin is now capable of. And with no buffer in place it will allow him to hold all of it, to "seize all that he is". The Dark One wont be able to launch a counter-stroke this time because Rand will hold him back, contain the Dark One's power inside himself. And, of course, he will die in the process. But the Bore will be Sealed, the Dark One's touch on the world ended, and the remaining Shadowspawn slaughtered.

 

The Blight will quickly retreat allowing Lan to take back his homeland. Moridin, feeling the True Power leave him, will kill himself nonchalantly, saying "next time, then". Moiraine will stab Cyndane in the back, calmly explaining that she was too dangerous to leave alive and that her repentance could not be trusted. Graendal will survive Tarmon Gaidon and flee to parts unknown.

 

Nynaeve will find Rand's body in the ruins of Shayol Ghul and try to revive him, but it wont work. The broken bond will bring Rand's ladies to Shayol Ghul to gather the surviving members of the strike force and ferry them back to Tar Valon.

 

Victory for the light will be total, but the Seanchan will still want to conquer the world and the Asha'man and Aes Sedai will still mistrust one another. Nynaeve will meet with Rand's ghost in tel'aran'rhiod and offer to return him to the physical world like she saw Moghedien do to Birgitte. Rand will agree and three days after his original body is cremated will return to life and be bonded by his three wives once more. Since hes the only force all the various factions would agree to defer to hes the only one that can prevent the future Aviendha saw. Instead he sets about using his memories of the Age of Legends to build a new Age, breaking the old world in the process, recreating old technologies, undoing the slavery of the Seanchan and the various bad habits of the Aes Sedai, promoting more democratic beliefs instead of aristocratic ones and giving the Aiel a new purpose beyond mindless killing, but not the Way of the Leaf. They remain warriors, but warriors sworn to defend the new world that Rand seeks to build.

 

Elayne passes control over Cairhien to Moiraine with the caveat that she is to be the senior partner in their alliance. Faile inherits the throne of Saldaea from the dead Tenobia, with Perrin helping her rebuild. Mat teaches Tuon how to be a (relatively) normal person and is integral in promoting the neccessay reforms in the Empire. Lan and Nynaeve rule a reborn Malkier. Egwene and Logain retain control of their respective Towers with Rand as the final authority over both. It all ends with a happily ever after.

[Mulk]

AshaShan said a LOT of stuff

 

That's really well done. I can't say I agree with all of it (and I've no mind to nitpick something like this), but that's the single most comprehensive prediction I've seen anywhere and I really like it. Kudos

[James71]

 

AshaShan wrote the cliff notes version of AMoL...

 

 

You have certainly given it a lot of thought. I can see quite a few of those things happening.

I am not going to challenge any of it because we are all entitled to our own vision of how we see the story turning out.

Your predictions are certainly plausible. I enjoyed reading it.

[johthohar]

Actually the DO wants to rule within the realm of the pattern. he wants to be in charge. if he had wanted the pattern to unwravel he would have commanded the forsaken to balefire everything all the time. BUT it came a point where both sides just stopped using balefire. Do you think the shadow would stop using balefire without the DO giving the "ok" for it? i dont think so.

 

*Buzzer noise*

 

The Dark One wanting to "rule" the pattern doesn't fit with the theme of balance that we see throughout the series. The Creator creates. That's what he/she/it exists to do. The Dark One (i.e. the Creator's balance) logically exists to destroy. The Forsaken made the decision to stop using balefire on their own. You're assuming the Dark One's role in the fight between the Light and the Shadow is a lot more direct that I believe it is. He rarely gives the Forsaken specific instructions or do's and dont's. He's more like, "Hey. I want you to kill this dude they call the Dragon and then break me outta jail. While I'm stuck in here... Hmmm..... You. You're in charge. And you'll need a cool sounding title. What do you think of Nae'blis? Good? Okay. I'm gonna take a nap." He lets them think he's going to rule the world because that appeals to their greed and lust for power and makes them easier to manipulate. If he told them to just balefire everything until the world fell apart he would probably meet with some resistance.

[Erunion]

/|\

Seconded!

 

The DO doesn't want to rule, he just let's his people think he does. If the DO stated his plan to destroy everything, there would only be what, two darkfriends? (Ishy and Fain, as they're the only ones mad enough to be happy with that plan)

What's the point of eternal life (the main draw to the Dark Side of the for... Err... To the Great Lord's service) if your boss is going to destroy everything!??!

[The Desert Pea]

I think it'd be appropriate if the final part of the wind paragraph went:

 

The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was an ending.

[Randommer]

Twice dawns the day... - can't wait for that part!

 

I wondered about that. Rand fights and loses, but at the end releases so much balefire from Callandor that the entire day restarts, and he gets to do it over and fix his mistakes?

 

Pretty sure if he released that much balefire it would simply unravel the pattern and he'd be doing the DO a favor.

 

Perhaps there will be a total solar eclipse... I have always thought that this would be how the day dawns twice and it would be kind of fitting to herald the events at Shayol Ghul to the wider populace of Randland... What do you guys think??

 

 

Yeah I think the eclipse thing is a fair possibility, cos that much balefire would probably unravel the pattern. But I was thinking, the one power drives the wheel of time, right? So what if Rand figured out how to use the power, with his new-found superheroness and all, to turn the wheel backwards? Presumably his own memory would be unaffected, and I'm basing that on what Moridin says about it being a wonder that people can remember people who were balefired. Apparently memory is exempt from that kind of thing, so it could work, in theory.

[herid]

I suspect Fain will in some way be used to seal the bore. Think about it. Flinn uses the wound from the Shadar Logoth dagger to counteract the effects of the shadow inflicted wound, then Rand uses the evil of Shadar Logoth to cleanse the taint from Saidin.

That's what I think too and I'm surprised there are so few posts here advocating this idea. (I'm new here so I'm sorry if this has been discussed in detail elsewhere).

As you say, Rand already used the evil of Shadar Logoth to deal with the taint on saidin and Flinn used a similar idea when healing Rand. Also, in one of "mad" Rand's conversations with LT, LT mentions that something must touch the DO in the sealing process. Touching him directly with OP is a bad idea as LT found out in the previous attempt. I don't have an exact theory on how it will be done but I'm fairly certain that Fain and his power will be involved. Either him directly or possibly by spilling Rand's blood and using the part of Fain's power contained in Rand's wound from Fain's dagger.

[vanceme]

I don't have my books on me to check, but the feeling I remember getting from the scene where fain wounds Rand is that the wounds act like magnets. Damer didn't heal Rand, per se, he sealed the wounds off from the rest of his body. It makes sense that fain would be the "plug" that keeps the DO from retaliating. Somehow in my mind I managed to connect this idea with the flaw in the shiny but broken sword, but that was days ago and I forget.

 

In regards to Birgette we have already seen a hero of the horn present when it was blown, Rand. I think she will either die (come back with the other heroes and comfort elayne by saying now she can be spun out in the proper time before pulling out her automatic bow), or Mat blowing the horn will coincide with the last of her old time memories fading.

 

Has the ridiculous idea that birgette could be put back into tar as Rand comes out occurred to anyone? It just did to me and the only reason it makes sense is, cause, you know, heaven forbid a good guy dies. That right is reserved for the Rand man.

[Angelhydes]

*cracks knuckles*

 

Here is what I think will happen in no particular order I might be all over the place here so bare with me, some people might have already made some of these speculations and I didn't read all of the posts just most of them.

 

Matt vs Fain and the horn- I see Fain tied to the horn in some way maybe it's just because he was such a pivital character in The Horn of Valor, but I think what will happen is while the horn is being transported Fain will attack and steal the Horn and blow it. Matt's link to the horn was savored when he was hung form Avendisora (to die and live agian) Dead heroes will rise and fight for Fain. Matt and possibly Brigitta will go to kill Fain and retrieve the horn. Brigitta dies but helps Matt kill Fain Matt takes the horn and blows it again so the heroes will now fight for the Light.

 

Rand and Moridan- In The Gathering Storm when Rand and Moridan meet in the World of Dreams, Moridan seems resigned and almost reluctant, he knows that once the Dark One breaks free that everything is going to be destroyed "...the others are fools. They look for grand rewards in the eternities, but there will be no eternities. Only the now, the last days." (TGS chapter 15, page 238) Moridan seems to be looking forward to that end but at the same time not. I think Moridan will turn on the Dark One, and with his help Rand will be able to seal the bore into the Dark Ones prison something has to touch him and I think it has to be the True Power, anything else will allow the Dark One to taint the seals so they're week, his power is already tainted it's the perfect thing to touch the dark one and seal him away. Or Rand will use his connection to Moridan and use the true power him self.

 

Rand will somehow live not sure how really and Alivia will help him fake his death somehow.

 

Lan will probably die and Nyneave will probably die soon after I can see her drawing more power then she can safely handle at feeling Lan's death like the last queen of Manerithern did when she felt her husband die probably kill hordes of trollocs in the process. I'm not really sure about that though since she will probably be linked with Rand Moiraine and Callandore. But Min's viewing of her crying over a body suggests at least Lans death.

 

Perrin and Slayer will probably kill each other, I don't see Perrin living through the last battle.

 

The attack on the Tower Egwene will probably need Egeanin's help to stop the invasion. Egwene had a dream of a Sanchean women climbing a mountin with two swords on her back her face is blurred but she stops and holds a hand out to Egwene and says we can reach the top if we help each other. Egwene will have to battle with her hatred of the Seanchan and truest Egeanin to help her. I believe it was mentioned in either the Gathering Storm or Knife of Dreams that Egeanin had taken to carrying two swords on her back.

 

I know that doesn't cover allot but those are some of the main things I can see happening the two things I'm SURE about are Fain and the horn and Rand somehow using the True Power to help seal the Dark One's prison, I was sure of that after Rand used the True Power to break free from Semierhage.

 

I've reread the books and listened to all of the books on audio some many times that I've lost count. There are all sorts of tidbits buried in the books if you just dig.

 

Well that's two cents on what's going to happen feel free to poke holes in my in my thoughts :)

[ranjitb]

Considering Nynaeve crying over Lan's dead body - well everyone seems to think this means he will die in the blight attack, which I don't agree/disagree with but just want to point out that she WILL be crying over his body sooner or later.

And unless some sort of "children of channelers MUST be channelers" ret-con is introduced, she will also be crying over the dead bodies of her children, and grand-children and so on.

The woman is going to live to see six or seven hundred after all.

[Moments]

Rand shows up with his three wives, Cadsuane, Nynave and Sorilea in tow.

 

OHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGOHDGODOHGOD

[capuga]

Considering Nynaeve crying over Lan's dead body - well everyone seems to think this means he will die in the blight attack, which I don't agree/disagree with but just want to point out that she WILL be crying over his body sooner or later.

And unless some sort of "children of channelers MUST be channelers" ret-con is introduced, she will also be crying over the dead bodies of her children, and grand-children and so on.

The woman is going to live to see six or seven hundred after all.

 

Not unless she removes the Oaths. Her lifespan with the Oaths will be 200-300. Although your point still holds even with this shortened lifespan.

[ranjitb]

Mark I believe the new (proposed) arrangement is that Aes Sedai have their oaths removed after a few centuries and retire into the Kin ?

Although we haven't seen what effect removing oaths has on your nominal lifespan - is it restored to what it would have originally been ? Is it somehow shortened permanently ?

It seems somewhat of a cheat that an AS could wait to be on her deathbed, then remove the oaths and then suddenly have an extra 300 years to live.

Also, are previous oaths "remembered" ? Consider this scenario - Nynaeve potential lifespand = 600 years. Nyn on oaths = 300 years.

On her 299 birthday, she "retires" and has the oaths removed. Will she now live for another 300 years ? What if she re-swears an oath on her 301st birthday ? Will she drop dead instantaneously ? Or will the oaths shorten only her "remaining lifespan" i.e. she now gets 300 + 300/2 = 450 yrs.

 

Sorry, these are the sorts if things I think about.

[capuga]

Mark I believe the new (proposed) arrangement is that Aes Sedai have their oaths removed after a few centuries and retire into the Kin ?

Although we haven't seen what effect removing oaths has on your nominal lifespan - is it restored to what it would have originally been ? Is it somehow shortened permanently ?

It seems somewhat of a cheat that an AS could wait to be on her deathbed, then remove the oaths and then suddenly have an extra 300 years to live.

Also, are previous oaths "remembered" ? Consider this scenario - Nynaeve potential lifespand = 600 years. Nyn on oaths = 300 years.

On her 299 birthday, she "retires" and has the oaths removed. Will she now live for another 300 years ? What if she re-swears an oath on her 301st birthday ? Will she drop dead instantaneously ? Or will the oaths shorten only her "remaining lifespan" i.e. she now gets 300 + 300/2 = 450 yrs.

 

Sorry, these are the sorts if things I think about.

 

All very good questions. I wonder if we will get to see an example of this in aMoL. Egwene starts raising some of the older Kin to Aes Sedai and they drop dead on the spot? Should be interesting.

[Soraz]

We find out that Logain was the real dragon all the time, and Rand was simply a pawn.

 

 

Psych, that would suck.

[Moments]

I'll just call it now that Lan will not die in the series. It's obvious that Malkier's going to be retaken from the Blight, and aside from Lan, there is no other prominent Malkieri character in the book to possibly take up the throne themselves.

 

Also, assuming Nynaeve's stint in the ter'angreal for her test for Accepted is at least some partial viewing of the future, she still has to have some sort of interaction with Sharina; it wouldn't make sense for RJ to bring Sharina into the series without some purpose other than perhaps becoming the strongest Aes Sedai since the AoL.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

We find out that Logain is in fact Demandred. The hatred between Taim and Logain stems from the fact that Taim is Moridin's crony.

[Aquarius]

We find out that Logain is in fact Demandred. The hatred between Taim and Logain stems from the fact that Taim is Moridin's crony.

Interesting :)

When exactly would Dem have taken Logain's place ? between his leaving Salidar and getting to the Black Tower ?

[Ananta]

We find out that Logain is in fact Demandred. The hatred between Taim and Logain stems from the fact that Taim is Moridin's crony.

Interesting :)

When exactly would Dem have taken Logain's place ? between his leaving Salidar and getting to the Black Tower ?

 

Has always been.

[ranjitb]

Logain <> Demandred from the beginning, simply because he was running around Ghealdean before the events in TEotW, when the forsaken were still sealed away.

[Ananta]

Logain <> Demandred from the beginning, simply because he was running around Ghealdean before the events in TEotW, when the forsaken were still sealed away.

I don't think anyone would seriously think that Logain is Demandred.

 

Unless Dark Side wins and he becomes Nae'blis, thus fulfilling the prophecy about receiving glory and whatever. xD

[johthohar]

Logain <> Demandred from the beginning, simply because he was running around Ghealdean before the events in TEotW, when the forsaken were still sealed away.

I don't think anyone would seriously think that Logain is Demandred.

 

Unless Dark Side wins and he becomes Nae'blis, thus fulfilling the prophecy about receiving glory and whatever. xD

 

This was actually exactly my theory about Logain/Demandred for a while. But if you think about it, it would have been mentioned among the Forsakens' POV's if Demandred was severed/gentled. And I'm sure there are instances that can be cited where Demandred and Logain are both in separate places at the same time. Also, I think it's unlikely that Demandred would have supplanted Logain post-healing. Just too "convenient".

 

My new Logain theory is that his glory will come because he kills Rand. I think the madness has taken him and he still believes he is the true Dragon Reborn. That explains Min's viewing of Logain stepping over Rand's corpse to sit on a throne and laugh maniacally. Then Rand gets resurrected somehow and everything is all happy or whatever.

 

 

Mark I believe the new (proposed) arrangement is that Aes Sedai have their oaths removed after a few centuries and retire into the Kin ?

Although we haven't seen what effect removing oaths has on your nominal lifespan - is it restored to what it would have originally been ? Is it somehow shortened permanently ?

It seems somewhat of a cheat that an AS could wait to be on her deathbed, then remove the oaths and then suddenly have an extra 300 years to live.

Also, are previous oaths "remembered" ? Consider this scenario - Nynaeve potential lifespand = 600 years. Nyn on oaths = 300 years.

On her 299 birthday, she "retires" and has the oaths removed. Will she now live for another 300 years ? What if she re-swears an oath on her 301st birthday ? Will she drop dead instantaneously ? Or will the oaths shorten only her "remaining lifespan" i.e. she now gets 300 + 300/2 = 450 yrs.

 

Sorry, these are the sorts if things I think about.

 

All very good questions. I wonder if we will get to see an example of this in aMoL. Egwene starts raising some of the older Kin to Aes Sedai and they drop dead on the spot? Should be interesting.

 

I would speculate that the life shortening effect of the Oath Rod is cumulative. So, for example, every year that you are bound by the rod removes half a year from your lifespan. Give or take. I still hold that it is &%$#ing retarded of the Aes Sedai to swear on a binder given what they now know about them. But what can you expect from a inherently retarded culture? Retardism. Yup.

[ranjitb]

Actually johthohar, this is a philosophical question that no one has ever been able to answer completely - just how much life is enough life ?

For all intents and purposes the instinct to survive is the prime motivating force for all life - that is you will find most people say "As long as there is life, anything can be tolerated..." which is certainly true. But then you also read cases of people who die shortly after their twins/spouses, or in some cases very old people (perhaps in their 90s or so) who just say "I'm done, I'm ready to go".

 

There is no way of answering it, but would a 600 year long life really be better than 300 years ? After all there is no indication that time passes more slowly for AS than for anyone else. Especially when you see your friends and loved ones change, reach different stages of their lives, and yes, eventually happily pass on while you remain as you are, forever (agesslessly) 20isly years old. At first blush it may sound awesome, but is it really ? Can you imagine the loneliness ?

 

The best response I have ever read (me personally) comes from Neil Gaimans Sandman series in which (for various reasons) a guy dies when he is about 19,000 and says "I did pretty good didn't I ? I got 19,000 years" and he is told "you got what any of us get, Bernie, ONE lifetime".

 

And then you have countless examples of people who willingly die, or are prepared to die on a daily basis for the "greater good" - armed services, police, firefighters etc etc etc.

 

What I'm trying to say is that (though it didn't seem to work out that way) the AS who introduced the self binding probably felt that the price of a couple of centuries wasn't too steep to pay (given that they would live insanely long anyway) for stabilizing society. Far from retarded in my opinion.

 

/rambling

[Nooska]

There is no way of answering it, but would a 600 year long life really be better than 300 years ? After all there is no indication that time passes more slowly for AS than for anyone else. Especially when you see your friends and loved ones change, reach different stages of their lives, and yes, eventually happily pass on while you remain as you are, forever (agesslessly) 20isly years old. At first blush it may sound awesome, but is it really ? Can you imagine the loneliness ?

You reminded me of, and led me to quote Alphaville, Forever Young;

Forever young

I want to be forever young

Do you really want to live forever?

Forever young