Discuss Rand

[Durinax]

As far as the Trolloc scene, Rand was using the True Source to power up his channeling. No "regular" human could can the amounts Rand was unaided with Callandor or that other strong one.

 

Rand's integration with his past self of Lews Therin has not changed the volume of the Power he can hold unaided. But it has given him complete unrestricted access to his past skill in using that power. Notice Naef (sp?) didn't mention anything about how much Power Rand held but what he did with it: thousands of weaves all at once; and the use of angreal and sa'angreal doesn't effect ones use of the Power only how much Power one can hold. It's only really now we're seeing the power of Lews Therin.

 

And I've said this before.. Lews Therin was simply that bad ass.

yes but before it has been stated how much harder it gets with each additional weave... I totally agree with you but it must be stated that it leaves rand completely drained for a couple of days if he channels his maximum

[Pug]

A lot of people think that Rand will kneel to the Seanchan Empress; is that because their prophecies say that? Wasn't it the Seanchan prophecies that were corrupted? I believe that it's somewhere in the Dragon Reborn; Moiraine is talking about the prophecies and she wonders how Rand will bind the Nine Moons. Can't remember the exact quote.

 

Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends were Servants of All, they served the people in their own ways; they went around healing people they used the One Power to create things to make life easier, then in the War against the Shadow they used the One Power to protect the people against the shadow those that remained true that is.

[Elend]

We saw Lews Therin's ability with saidin in Knife of Dreams, though, when the Trolloc Army attacked. I'll acknowledge that Occam's Razor suggests that Rand's interference with the other personality he created from his LTT memories hampered the channeling in this instance, but we also have other anomalies such as the strange force when Nyn delved him.

[Mystraka]

I think it's possible that Rand could channel the True Power, considering that anyone can that the DO wishes and its possible he thinks Rand still might turn, but I think it is irrelevant as to whether he can. The simple of it is, he won't. To channel the True Power would be to betray the change that he underwent at Dragonmount. He knows what it is and he knows he shouldn't touch it. As Lews Therin said in TGS, "better to kill again than this" or something along those lines.

 

As for his ta'veren, I think he has some measure of control over it, similar to Mat's luck, perhaps. In the WT, all of the Sisters felt a squeezing of their heart so that they couldn't speak, leaving them unable to interfere. That would also be Rand's backup plan to break free in case Egwene didn't let him go. Hence the "Don't make me (ta'veren) you" look. He also seems to know what his ta'veren will do. In Bandar Eban, he first asked if What's His Face had checked all the sacks. When he learned he hadn't, that allowed him to manipulate chance, creating that epic scene.

 

Other than that, Rand's awesome. =D

I believe that Rand either CAN channel the TP, or still thinks he can. It would explain his extreme confidence in walking into Tar Valon to face Egwene, with multiple 13's of Aes Sedai around him (i.e. they'd try to shield him and he'd just TP his way out of it). Same with Far Madding. Also, remember what Nynaeve saw when she looked into Rand's mind (that white, liquid power that was coating the black spiny thing that is Rand's madness). So, perhaps Rand used or is using the TP to keep himself sane (or perhaps LTT did it in the moment of their joining). Nynaeve would have commented if it felt like saidin (having been part of the link that channeled an enormous amount of saidin into Shadar Logoth, she should be able to identify it if she's able to see it).

 

To take the loony a step further, perhaps the TP comes from both the DO and the Creator, and Rand, representing the Creator's side, has access to the TP. Just not the DO's TP.

 

As far as ta'veren, I think it's just the common theme that the ta'veren are finally accepting their warping of the Pattern. Perrin references it when Galad agrees to be under his command, even warning Galad that he'll feel weak because he was just affected by a ta'veren. Matt has fully accepted how his dice work in his head, abandoning all pretense that his luck and the dice are anything but useful and extensions of himself. So why can't Rand accept and use his circumstance as the center of a Pattern reweaving? Rand has finally accepted that he's the Dragon, he's got important things to do, and he's got himself together and can stop whining about it. "Why is this happening to me?" has finally turned into "This is happened because I am who I am". I don't think he "controls" the Pattern, but he does seem to be influencing it as an island of "anti-DO".

 

Weather clearing in Caemlyn: It's cuz Rand is bonded to Elayne. Didn't see it too much with Min, cuz she's always with him now, and Avi is in the three-fold land, where it wasn't stormy anyway. Wonder what the weather's like where Alanna is? I'll bet the bond-transmitted anti-DO field is radiating from her too. And I'll bet this becomes key in confining the DO when the last seal is broken... :)

 

Rand mentioned when he was meeting with the borderlanders in TOM that the gaurdian only prevents the one power, which means that he can channel the true power and he had to use it against SEM

 

Thats not what he said.... He said that had he spoken with them weeks ago he would have balefired them. He gives no indication that he can/would use the TP ever again. Incidentally if the TP came from the creator, why would it corrupt? (we hear from a graendel POV that the TP is much more seductive than the OP AND has far worse effects on the user)

[Jon Paul]

We saw Lews Therin's ability with saidin in Knife of Dreams, though, when the Trolloc Army attacked. I'll acknowledge that Occam's Razor suggests that Rand's interference with the other personality he created from his LTT memories hampered the channeling in this instance, but we also have other anomalies such as the strange force when Nyn delved him.

 

We saw Rand channelling in Knife of Dreams. We saw Rand's ability with a few filtered weaves from a memory he hadn't fully integrated himself with. I suppose one could make an argument by using the Forsaken as an example. Such as Sammael at the Hill Forts but as Durinax said, it leaves one completely tired and open when one fully exerts themselves such as Rand done and Sammael wouldn't risk it.

 

Anyway I agree there's a lot of questions I just don't think they really revolve around Rand's ability with the Power.

[A Rant Lord]

I don't have any evidence for this so don't beat me down on the silly thought. But could the "Power" Nynaeve saw in Rand be like the cords in the forsaken linking them to the DO? In Rand's case ofcourse linking him to the Creator? Therefore making him able to spot DFs and making him immune to the madness caused by Saidin?

Just a thought

[Mystraka]

I don't have any evidence for this so don't beat me down on the silly thought. But could the "Power" Nynaeve saw in Rand be like the cords in the forsaken linking them to the DO? In Rand's case ofcourse linking him to the Creator? Therefore making him able to spot DFs and making him immune to the madness caused by Saidin?

Just a thought

 

Not a bad thought. Heres another thought. What happened to all the power Rand held above and beyond his normal capacity when he destroyed the Choden Kal? Could that extra power have crystalized to form the mind shield?

[Entreri]

As far as the Trolloc scene, Rand was using the True Source to power up his channeling. No "regular" human could can the amounts Rand was unaided with Callandor or that other strong one.

 

Rand's integration with his past self of Lews Therin has not changed the volume of the Power he can hold unaided. But it has given him complete unrestricted access to his past skill in using that power. Notice Naef (sp?) didn't mention anything about how much Power Rand held but what he did with it: thousands of weaves all at once; and the use of angreal and sa'angreal doesn't effect ones use of the Power only how much Power one can hold. It's only really now we're seeing the power of Lews Therin.

 

And I've said this before.. Lews Therin was simply that bad ass.

 

 

The amount of weaves one can handle simultaneously is related to how powerful one is. In the Shadow Rising, both Egwene and Elayne were amazed at how many Rand had going at once (a dozen or so)...while they could manage far less, due to their strength in the Power.

 

Either Brandon made a mistake in saying that Naeff could not even count how many weaves Rand had going at once...or Rand had risen beyond the male limit. What Rand did in ToM is akin to what he did in earlier books with Callandor. Skill is only part of it, which involves what type of weave one can create, the complexity, the speed. However, it does not change the number of weaves one can handle at once, which depends on raw strength.

[johthohar]

As far as the Trolloc scene, Rand was using the True Source to power up his channeling. No "regular" human could can the amounts Rand was unaided with Callandor or that other strong one.

 

Rand's integration with his past self of Lews Therin has not changed the volume of the Power he can hold unaided. But it has given him complete unrestricted access to his past skill in using that power. Notice Naef (sp?) didn't mention anything about how much Power Rand held but what he did with it: thousands of weaves all at once; and the use of angreal and sa'angreal doesn't effect ones use of the Power only how much Power one can hold. It's only really now we're seeing the power of Lews Therin.

 

And I've said this before.. Lews Therin was simply that bad ass.

 

 

The amount of weaves one can handle simultaneously is related to how powerful one is. In the Shadow Rising, both Egwene and Elayne were amazed at how many Rand had going at once (a dozen or so)...while they could manage far less, due to their strength in the Power.

 

Either Brandon made a mistake in saying that Naeff could not even count how many weaves Rand had going at once...or Rand had risen beyond the male limit. What Rand did in ToM is akin to what he did in earlier books with Callandor. Skill is only part of it, which involves what type of weave one can create, the complexity, the speed. However, it does not change the number of weaves one can handle at once, which depends on raw strength.

 

 

False. Unless you can show me a quote that confirms this I'm pretty sure the number of weaves one can handle has never been tied directly to one's strength. When the Tower Aes Sedai were force feeding Egwene forkroot tea and she could barely channel a trickle she demonstrated the ability to handle 14 weaves at once. Egwene and Elayne are amazed by rand handling a dozen or so because that is relatively rare in THIS age. In the AoL when Aes Sedai or channelers in general lived 400+ years experience and skill probably allowed them to handle a lot more weaves at once. As Rand has now reconciled his LTT memories with his own he can draw on that 400+ years of experience now. I've never seen anywhere that there is a "limit" on how many weaves you can handle.

[Pug]

With Rand doing all those weaves, he could've just tied them off a bunch and gone on to do more and then tie them off. Or it could be that the One Power is more powerful than we know.

[Entreri]

As far as the Trolloc scene, Rand was using the True Source to power up his channeling. No "regular" human could can the amounts Rand was unaided with Callandor or that other strong one.

 

Rand's integration with his past self of Lews Therin has not changed the volume of the Power he can hold unaided. But it has given him complete unrestricted access to his past skill in using that power. Notice Naef (sp?) didn't mention anything about how much Power Rand held but what he did with it: thousands of weaves all at once; and the use of angreal and sa'angreal doesn't effect ones use of the Power only how much Power one can hold. It's only really now we're seeing the power of Lews Therin.

 

And I've said this before.. Lews Therin was simply that bad ass.

 

 

The amount of weaves one can handle simultaneously is related to how powerful one is. In the Shadow Rising, both Egwene and Elayne were amazed at how many Rand had going at once (a dozen or so)...while they could manage far less, due to their strength in the Power.

 

Either Brandon made a mistake in saying that Naeff could not even count how many weaves Rand had going at once...or Rand had risen beyond the male limit. What Rand did in ToM is akin to what he did in earlier books with Callandor. Skill is only part of it, which involves what type of weave one can create, the complexity, the speed. However, it does not change the number of weaves one can handle at once, which depends on raw strength.

 

 

False. Unless you can show me a quote that confirms this I'm pretty sure the number of weaves one can handle has never been tied directly to one's strength. When the Tower Aes Sedai were force feeding Egwene forkroot tea and she could barely channel a trickle she demonstrated the ability to handle 14 weaves at once. Egwene and Elayne are amazed by rand handling a dozen or so because that is relatively rare in THIS age. In the AoL when Aes Sedai or channelers in general lived 400+ years experience and skill probably allowed them to handle a lot more weaves at once. As Rand has now reconciled his LTT memories with his own he can draw on that 400+ years of experience now. I've never seen anywhere that there is a "limit" on how many weaves you can handle.

 

True. It is stated in the Shadow Rising when Rand shields both women and starts channeling more than a dozen weaves at once. With each additional weave, even more strength is required. I do not have the book with me, but this is the case. I will get the quotes. Nothing to do with skill. Is it in The Gathering Storm that Egwene channels 14 weaves? I do not recall reading this in book 12.

[Androl]

I think power makes it easier but there is a skill factor as well. Look at how much Egwene did while she was on forkroot in the class trained by the Accepted. So skill is a significant factor as well.

[johthohar]

True. It is stated in the Shadow Rising when Rand shields both women and starts channeling more than a dozen weaves at once. With each additional weave, even more strength is required. I do not have the book with me, but this is the case. I will get the quotes. Nothing to do with skill. Is it in The Gathering Storm that Egwene channels 14 weaves? I do not recall reading this in book 12.

 

Not good with exact quotes. But it is when she is made to be a novice again and they are feeding her forkroot. One of her Accepted teachers tries to put her in her place by asking her to channel a ball of fire. So she channels one for each Ajah color and then channels a concentric circle for each Ajah color and then starts spinning them all around. I recall what you're saying and yea... It takes more power with each weave in the sense that the part of the total power you can hold is already dedicated to the first weave and each weave thereafter. So lets make it an equation: a - b * c = 0 where 'a' is the total amount of power a given channeler can hold, 'b' is a fixed amound of power dedicated to a certain weave they are going to perform multiple times, and 'c' is the total number of weaves performed. Then, 'c' would be the total amount of weaves they can channel simultaneously at that set amount of power per weave. So it is indirectly related to the amount of power one can hold. Its not like "Oh you can hold this much power? Then this is the amount of weaves you can channel at once. Have a nice day!" And I don't have the patience to look up quotes on this but I'm certain it's been stated several times over the series that channeling many weaves at once takes quite a bit of skill and concentration.

[Elend]

We saw Lews Therin's ability with saidin in Knife of Dreams, though, when the Trolloc Army attacked. I'll acknowledge that Occam's Razor suggests that Rand's interference with the other personality he created from his LTT memories hampered the channeling in this instance, but we also have other anomalies such as the strange force when Nyn delved him.

 

We saw Rand channelling in Knife of Dreams. We saw Rand's ability with a few filtered weaves from a memory he hadn't fully integrated himself with. I suppose one could make an argument by using the Forsaken as an example. Such as Sammael at the Hill Forts but as Durinax said, it leaves one completely tired and open when one fully exerts themselves such as Rand done and Sammael wouldn't risk it.

 

Anyway I agree there's a lot of questions I just don't think they really revolve around Rand's ability with the Power.

 

We saw the Rand he had created within himself with LTT's memories channeling, not the usual Rand. It would make sense that this version would have the skill this current Rand wields, with the big difference being a lack of real integration and perhaps him

holding himself back due to this that could explain it.

 

But when we have all these other anomalies its not out of the question that something has changed fundamentally in Rand's channeling. Though the statement at Far Madding isn't an indication of this; very clear reference to his former state and access to True Power.

[f3llyn]

Well, who is to say that Rand isn't still gaining strength? I don't recall ever reading how long it takes a male to reach their full strength, but we know it takes women at least 5 years or so. And Rand has only been channeling about 2 years give or take a few months. I could be wrong about that but I don't think it's entirely implausible.

 

Besides that I think the number of weaves we saw him create had to do with the efficiency he learned from gaining Lews Therin's abilities.

[wpflug]

The quote people are looking for regarding the difficulty of channeling multiple weaves is in The Shadow Rising, Chapter 7:

Egwene knew she herself could never have done what [Rand] just had, split her flows that many ways, worked that many things at once. Working two flows at once was far more than twice as hard as working one of the same magnitude, and working three much more than twice again working two. He had to have been weaving a dozen.

My read, Egwene could channel twelve weaves with forkroot because the weaves all required a very small amount of power (low magnitude). Post-epiphany Rand is insanely powerful.

[Entreri]

The quote people are looking for regarding the difficulty of channeling multiple weaves is in The Shadow Rising, Chapter 7:

Egwene knew she herself could never have done what [Rand] just had, split her flows that many ways, worked that many things at once. Working two flows at once was far more than twice as hard as working one of the same magnitude, and working three much more than twice again working two. He had to have been weaving a dozen.

My read, Egwene could channel twelve weaves with forkroot because the weaves all required a very small amount of power (low magnitude). Post-epiphany Rand is insanely powerful.

 

 

Thank you. Yes, that makes sense.

 

 

In the Prologue to the Lord of Chaos, Rand states that he is gaining strength in the Power. Aside from that there is no other mention of his gaining additional strength. In the Crown of Swords, Rand states that Aginor can hold "almost" as much of the One Power as he can. Narishma made a somewhat similar comparison to Sammael's strength in CoS. Taim came "close" to the amount of Power Rand could hold...All this implies that by book 7, the DR had reached the male maximum.

 

 

Asmodean said even the 13 weakest Aes Sedai could shield him or any man. We see that 6 Aes Sedai can easily keep the shield on Rand (Lord of Chaos)...they were never nervous or worried that he could break the shield. Thus 6 AS can maintain the shield on anyone.

 

Fast forward to the Towers of Midnight: "Undoubtedly he's shielded, but all twenty-six women seemed in a near panic." So 13 women are holding his shield but they are terrified. Why? By implication, they are afraid that he could break free, which should be impossible due to lack of sufficient OP strength. Egwene: "I doubt we could have held him. There's something about him...I...I had the sense he could have broken that shield without a struggle". IMO, some how he became much stronger in the Power, stronger than it should be humanely possible, having reached male limit (LTT/Ishamael max) in the CoS. We see that innate OP strength can be reduced (Moraine, Lanfear), why can't it be increased?

[Auld Manriva]

Fast forward to the Towers of Midnight: "Undoubtedly he's shielded, bull all twenty-six women seemed in a near panic." So 13 women are holding his shield but they are terrified. Why? By implication, they are afraid that he could break free, which should be impossible due to lack of sufficient OP strength. Egwene: "I doubt we could have held him. There's something about him...I...I had the sense he could have broken that shield without a struggle".

 

I THINK what we're seeing here is Eggy sensing a self confidence in Rand. Or maybe calm is a better term. He had no fear of them shielding him, so she/they "kvetched" over him not being a gelatinous pile o'sweat.... Now.. WHY did he have this confidence? One reason, I suspect is being able to use the True Power. He knows he can so being shielded does not bother him.

 

That and his tidal wave of Ta'veren, that has all of them rubber kneed, combine to make a whole pile o'women who think they're All That, shiver like a herd o'chihuahua's barkin' at a Pit Bull.

[johthohar]

In the Prologue to the Lord of Chaos, Rand states that he is gaining strength in the Power. Aside from that there is no other mention of his gaining additional strength. In the Crown of Swords, Rand states that Aginor can hold "almost" as much of the One Power as he can. Narishma made a somewhat similar comparison to Sammael's strength in CoS. Taim came "close" to the amount of Power Rand could hold...All this implies that by book 7, the DR had reached the male maximum.

 

How does this imply he's reached a maximum? Its established that women increase in power gradually but steadily over a period of 5 years or so? And men grow in leaps and bounds. It's feasible that Rand was stalled in his power growth for some time and that's why it appears to be at a similar level for so long. In fact, I'd say it's likely. Post epiphany, he is effectively 400+ years old. I would contend that he now simply has access to his full potential. It's entirely possible that he has somehow increased in power in some other way. The light Nynaeve sees when delving him could be a factor. Sixteen months to go.

 

Asmodean said even the 13 weakest Aes Sedai could shield him or any man. We see that 6 Aes Sedai can easily keep the shield on Rand (Lord of Chaos)...they were never nervous or worried that he could break the shield. Thus 6 AS can maintain the shield on anyone.

 

Fast forward to the Towers of Midnight: "Undoubtedly he's shielded, but all twenty-six women seemed in a near panic." So 13 women are holding his shield but they are terrified. Why? By implication, they are afraid that he could break free, which should be impossible due to lack of sufficient OP strength. Egwene: "I doubt we could have held him. There's something about him...I...I had the sense he could have broken that shield without a struggle". IMO, some how he became much stronger in the Power, stronger than it should be humanely possible, having reached male limit (LTT/Ishamael max) in the CoS. We see that innate OP strength can be reduced (Moraine, Lanfear), why can't it be increased?

 

I've always thought this (13 weakest AS can shield any man no matter how powerful) was misinformation. Of course I haven't been reading the interviews and press statements from RJ for 20+ years so it could have confirmed to be true by him and I just dont' know. But Asmodean was the weakest of the male Forsaken and he was a jealous person. He could have been simply trying to belittle Rand. I seriously doubt that 13 low ranking linked AS could have cut him off from the power during his "Storm of Light". Just IMO.

[Entreri]

Fast forward to the Towers of Midnight: "Undoubtedly he's shielded, bull all twenty-six women seemed in a near panic." So 13 women are holding his shield but they are terrified. Why? By implication, they are afraid that he could break free, which should be impossible due to lack of sufficient OP strength. Egwene: "I doubt we could have held him. There's something about him...I...I had the sense he could have broken that shield without a struggle".

 

I THINK what we're seeing here is Eggy sensing a self confidence in Rand. Or maybe calm is a better term. He had no fear of them shielding him, so she/they "kvetched" over him not being a gelatinous pile o'sweat.... Now.. WHY did he have this confidence? One reason, I suspect is being able to use the True Power. He knows he can so being shielded does not bother him.

 

That and his tidal wave of Ta'veren, that has all of them rubber kneed, combine to make a whole pile o'women who think they're All That, shiver like a herd o'chihuahua's barkin' at a Pit Bull.

 

 

This was my first thought as well, until I considered the behavior of the 13 AS who were terrifed, Rand's show of Power in destroying that titanic Trolloc Army.

 

According to Robert Jordan, when you are shielded against the One Power, you are shielded against the True Power.

 

It is also implying that you would either need a sa'angrel or may be a near sa'angreal may work (like the one Lanfear used against Rand in the Fires of Heaven) to take on 13 Aes Sedai linked.

 

 

"Week 8 Question: When a person that can channel is shielded, where is the shield placed? Is it placed around the whole body of the person or around the head of the channeler where they sense saidin/saidar? If you are shielded from the One Power, are you also shielded from the True Power? What happens if someone in a circle is shielded? Can a Warder feel that his Aes Sedai is shielded?"

 

 

 

"Robert Jordan Answers: A shield exists both as a barrier around the entire person and as a single point along with everything in between. . (In a way, this is like the Bore, which does not actually exist as Shayol Ghul. The Bore exists everywhere, but Shayol Ghul is the place where it can best be detected. Which is not to say that there is any connection between the Bore and a shield. Both simply exist in different states simultaneously.) Someone who is shielded and trying to get past the shield can "feel" their way along its inner "surface" hunting for weaknesses, such as the points that indicate where the shield is being maintained or has been tied off. Shielding against the One Power will indeed stop someone from reaching for the True Power. It isn't possible to shield one person out of a circle since, in effect, the circle has become a single person for the purpose of channeling. You would have to shield the entire circle, which would require either a circle of your own or a pretty hefty sa'angreal. A Warder cannot feel that his Aes Sedai has been shielded, though he would be aware of any agitation on her part. But this would tell him no more than that she was agitated."

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/51695-chapter-1-apples-first/page__st__320

[David Selig]

I've always thought this (13 weakest AS can shield any man no matter how powerful) was misinformation.

LTT agreed with Ashmodean on that, so it's most probably true. Plus as noted already, 6 Aes Sedai which weren't noted to be exceptionally strong in the Power, were easily holding the shield on Rand until they got distracted by the battle.

 

The Aes Sedai in the ToM meeting being panicked was a result of Rand having gained control of his ta'veren ability, IMO. Also the mere fact that he was completely calm despite being shielded freaked the Aes Sedai out, they were sued to male channellers panicking when put in this position.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, technically I dont think Rand could have broken from the circle (which would definitely have been 13 or above) Its just Egwene is seeing what a true Aes Sedai was. Rand projected power and confidence that it truly DID seem that he had some trick up his sleeve and could bust down a shield.

 

Another part may also be his magnified Tavereness. With the pattern bending around him so completely now, i would be willing to bet that if Egwene had tried to imprison him, that shield would come to a miraculous and abrupt end. Nobody but the DO (who destroys the pattern) is going to be able to "control" Rand now. The final battle has begun and the pattern is too strongly focused on him (and possibly Mat/Perrin) for anything like Aes Sedai trying to imprison him get in the way.

[Entreri]

In the Prologue to the Lord of Chaos, Rand states that he is gaining strength in the Power. Aside from that there is no other mention of his gaining additional strength. In the Crown of Swords, Rand states that Aginor can hold "almost" as much of the One Power as he can. Narishma made a somewhat similar comparison to Sammael's strength in CoS. Taim came "close" to the amount of Power Rand could hold...All this implies that by book 7, the DR had reached the male maximum.

 

How does this imply he's reached a maximum? Its established that women increase in power gradually but steadily over a period of 5 years or so? And men grow in leaps and bounds. It's feasible that Rand was stalled in his power growth for some time and that's why it appears to be at a similar level for so long. In fact, I'd say it's likely. Post epiphany, he is effectively 400+ years old. I would contend that he now simply has access to his full potential. It's entirely possible that he has somehow increased in power in some other way. The light Nynaeve sees when delving him could be a factor. Sixteen months to go.

 

Asmodean said even the 13 weakest Aes Sedai could shield him or any man. We see that 6 Aes Sedai can easily keep the shield on Rand (Lord of Chaos)...they were never nervous or worried that he could break the shield. Thus 6 AS can maintain the shield on anyone.

 

Fast forward to the Towers of Midnight: "Undoubtedly he's shielded, but all twenty-six women seemed in a near panic." So 13 women are holding his shield but they are terrified. Why? By implication, they are afraid that he could break free, which should be impossible due to lack of sufficient OP strength. Egwene: "I doubt we could have held him. There's something about him...I...I had the sense he could have broken that shield without a struggle". IMO, some how he became much stronger in the Power, stronger than it should be humanely possible, having reached male limit (LTT/Ishamael max) in the CoS. We see that innate OP strength can be reduced (Moraine, Lanfear), why can't it be increased?

 

I've always thought this (13 weakest AS can shield any man no matter how powerful) was misinformation. Of course I haven't been reading the interviews and press statements from RJ for 20+ years so it could have confirmed to be true by him and I just dont' know. But Asmodean was the weakest of the male Forsaken and he was a jealous person. He could have been simply trying to belittle Rand. I seriously doubt that 13 low ranking linked AS could have cut him off from the power during his "Storm of Light". Just IMO.

 

While it is possible, I would say unlikely. If LTT was that much stronger than the rest of the male Forsaken (Ishamael, Demandred, Sammael, Aginor, Rahvin) etc., they would have been terrified to ever battle him. But we see that the strongest male Forsaken have fought him before, one-on-one confrontations, although they did lose. There has never been a mention in the series of LTT's exceptional/out of this world strength by any of the Forsaken.

 

The top males channelers seem to be clustered closer together in terms of strength, while the females are not (Lanfear being an extreme outlier with no equal thus far in this age, however in AoL we see that was not the case with her comment, "no woman can be stronger").

 

 

 

To become AS, there is a strength minimum that is required. We see that 2 AS linked were equal to Nynaeve , who is one of the strongest females, at best Nynaeve = 3 AS, possibly Lanfear =4 AS.

 

We see that around 3 linked (AS, Asha'man) were able to hold off the Forsaken during the cleansing of saidin.

 

6 AS can hold the shield on any man, has been used as a rule for 1000's of years by the White Tower.

 

Imagine the strength of 13 AS linked holding the shield. In order to break a shield held by 13, generally one has to be stronger than the 13 AS!

 

13 AS is not misinformation. Asmodean said this. Lanfear said this to Rahvin...when Ravhin pointed out how weak AS were. Lanfear said something along the lines that if 13 of these children linked...

[Entreri]

Yeah, technically I dont think Rand could have broken from the circle (which would definitely have been 13 or above) Its just Egwene is seeing what a true Aes Sedai was. Rand projected power and confidence that it truly DID seem that he had some trick up his sleeve and could bust down a shield.

 

Another part may also be his magnified Tavereness. With the pattern bending around him so completely now, i would be willing to bet that if Egwene had tried to imprison him, that shield would come to a miraculous and abrupt end. Nobody but the DO (who destroys the pattern) is going to be able to "control" Rand now. The final battle has begun and the pattern is too strongly focused on him (and possibly Mat/Perrin) for anything like Aes Sedai trying to imprison him get in the way.

 

Confidence and projection of Power can only get one so far...Rand did get slapped around by the Borderland monarchs.

 

The way the 26 AS were in a "near panic" and what Egwene said and Rands' performance in battle (Naeff: "I've never seen so many weaves AT ONCE. I can't track them all. He's a storm of Light and streams of Power!"), indicate that something happened to the DR, imo he broke the male maximum threshold.

 

Anyway, I figure we will know conclusively in book 14.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, technically I dont think Rand could have broken from the circle (which would definitely have been 13 or above) Its just Egwene is seeing what a true Aes Sedai was. Rand projected power and confidence that it truly DID seem that he had some trick up his sleeve and could bust down a shield.

 

Another part may also be his magnified Tavereness. With the pattern bending around him so completely now, i would be willing to bet that if Egwene had tried to imprison him, that shield would come to a miraculous and abrupt end. Nobody but the DO (who destroys the pattern) is going to be able to "control" Rand now. The final battle has begun and the pattern is too strongly focused on him (and possibly Mat/Perrin) for anything like Aes Sedai trying to imprison him get in the way.

 

Confidence and projection of Power can only get one so far...Rand did get slapped around by the Borderland monarchs.

 

The way the 26 AS were in a "near panic" and what Egwene said and Rands' performance in battle (Naeff: "I've never seen so many weaves AT ONCE. I can't track them all. He's a storm of Light and streams of Power!"), indicate that something happened to the DR, imo he broke the male maximum threshold.

 

Anyway, I figure we will know conclusively in book 14.

 

yeeah, I aknowledge your point.

 

However, the bit about the borderlanders isnt right.

 

He let himself be slapped around. His Taverenness and self-confidence isnt around everyone. in the first chapter that farmer didnt faint, he actually had a conversation with the DR, and knew who he was.

 

The White Tower situation, Rand was prepared for the confronation, he focused himself for that exact reason. Also, it was an important event, his Taveren nature was at its fullest, because if the sisters and Egwene were not so scared, things may have gone badly.

 

The Borderlanders, it was a different situation. Its hard to explain, but basically his tavereness isnt a constant thing, or else hardly anyone would be able to speak to him ever.