Cyndane

[nolirion]

 

 

Not to mention, if she did, who would trust her? No one. Rand wouldnt even trust Asmodean, and he is arguably the "tamer" of the Forsaken, if such a thing is possible.

Moghedien and Semirhage did do a nice job at being tamed , but I agree if Lanfear is less of sadistic then Semirhage she is still a psychotic murderous very nice looking women

 

But being tamed is different to joining the Light. if Cyndane would allow herself to be leashed or her mindtrap tranfer to Rand somehow then sure, she could be useful. But thats what would have to happen, and its highly doubtful Rand would even do that. I see her as worst then Semirhage. Semirhage was a sadistic torture, but she was cold and calculating. Lanfear is all passion and emotion and rage; those sorts of people you just never ever trust, because they could turn on you at any moment. She is like a rabid dog, who can channel.

So if she wan to turn to the light she must first Allow herself to be Leashed Then Her mindtrap to be transfered to rand (Morridin will do it ) Then She could be usefull ?

Even is she would wan't it she can't

[WhiskyJack]

Something that stuck out to me was that Moiraine's strength in the power was reduced by the finns feeding on her...

If this means the finns have the ability the reduce someone's strength in the power, perhaps they have the ability to increase it as well? Perhaps that explains why Lanfear/cyndane thought no one could possibly be stronger than she once had been?

 

 

Because Lanfear was as strong as any woman could be without the aid of an angreal or sa'angreal.

Well Alivia show her How wrong she was

 

 

?? Cyndane was weaker than Lanfear and Alivia had an amgreal. And yet, Cyndane managed to fry one of Alivia's arms.

[AutomatedTeller]

Huh.

 

The fact that she's showing up again and is the one who bored the hole in the first place (thus, may have some insight into how to seal it back up for good) is certainly indicative of something.

[nateand]

Something that stuck out to me was that Moiraine's strength in the power was reduced by the finns feeding on her...

If this means the finns have the ability the reduce someone's strength in the power, perhaps they have the ability to increase it as well? Perhaps that explains why Lanfear/cyndane thought no one could possibly be stronger than she once had been?

 

 

Because Lanfear was as strong as any woman could be without the aid of an angreal or sa'angreal.

Well Alivia show her How wrong she was

 

 

?? Cyndane was weaker than Lanfear and Alivia had an amgreal. And yet, Cyndane managed to fry one of Alivia's arms.

 

He is probably talking about the fact that Cyndane says that Alivia is stronger than Lanfear was before the finns held her.

 

Honestly, how would Lanfear KNOW she was the strongest one COULD be in the power? Maybe she was just the strongest female channeler ever born, but that doesn't explain why she would think someone stronger yet would be impossible. I think she asked the finns to make her the strongest possible, and they just shortchanged her, or maybe only made her as strong as they were capable of doing.

[WhiskyJack]

Something that stuck out to me was that Moiraine's strength in the power was reduced by the finns feeding on her...

If this means the finns have the ability the reduce someone's strength in the power, perhaps they have the ability to increase it as well? Perhaps that explains why Lanfear/cyndane thought no one could possibly be stronger than she once had been?

 

 

Because Lanfear was as strong as any woman could be without the aid of an angreal or sa'angreal.

Well Alivia show her How wrong she was

 

 

?? Cyndane was weaker than Lanfear and Alivia had an amgreal. And yet, Cyndane managed to fry one of Alivia's arms.

 

He is probably talking about the fact that Cyndane says that Alivia is stronger than Lanfear was before the finns held her.

 

Honestly, how would Lanfear KNOW she was the strongest one COULD be in the power? Maybe she was just the strongest female channeler ever born, but that doesn't explain why she would think someone stronger yet would be impossible. I think she asked the finns to make her the strongest possible, and they just shortchanged her, or maybe only made her as strong as they were capable of doing.

 

 

Lanfear was born in AOL. My guess is that they had way of knowing how much a person can possibly channel without external aid. That's how. Just a guess Finn didn't give Lanfear her power back. There is no evidence that they can. We might discoer what happened to lanfear in next book. May be it was DO.

[nateand]

Something that stuck out to me was that Moiraine's strength in the power was reduced by the finns feeding on her...

If this means the finns have the ability the reduce someone's strength in the power, perhaps they have the ability to increase it as well? Perhaps that explains why Lanfear/cyndane thought no one could possibly be stronger than she once had been?

 

 

Because Lanfear was as strong as any woman could be without the aid of an angreal or sa'angreal.

Well Alivia show her How wrong she was

 

 

?? Cyndane was weaker than Lanfear and Alivia had an amgreal. And yet, Cyndane managed to fry one of Alivia's arms.

 

He is probably talking about the fact that Cyndane says that Alivia is stronger than Lanfear was before the finns held her.

 

Honestly, how would Lanfear KNOW she was the strongest one COULD be in the power? Maybe she was just the strongest female channeler ever born, but that doesn't explain why she would think someone stronger yet would be impossible. I think she asked the finns to make her the strongest possible, and they just shortchanged her, or maybe only made her as strong as they were capable of doing.

 

 

Lanfear was born in AOL. My guess is that they had way of knowing how much a person can possibly channel without external aid. That's how. Just a guess Finn didn't give Lanfear her power back. There is no evidence that they can. We might discoer what happened to lanfear in next book. May be it was DO.

 

If they had a way of knowing that, then their way was wrong... Because Alivia just proved it wrong.

[WhiskyJack]

Something that stuck out to me was that Moiraine's strength in the power was reduced by the finns feeding on her...

If this means the finns have the ability the reduce someone's strength in the power, perhaps they have the ability to increase it as well? Perhaps that explains why Lanfear/cyndane thought no one could possibly be stronger than she once had been?

 

 

Because Lanfear was as strong as any woman could be without the aid of an angreal or sa'angreal.

Well Alivia show her How wrong she was

 

 

?? Cyndane was weaker than Lanfear and Alivia had an amgreal. And yet, Cyndane managed to fry one of Alivia's arms.

 

He is probably talking about the fact that Cyndane says that Alivia is stronger than Lanfear was before the finns held her.

 

Honestly, how would Lanfear KNOW she was the strongest one COULD be in the power? Maybe she was just the strongest female channeler ever born, but that doesn't explain why she would think someone stronger yet would be impossible. I think she asked the finns to make her the strongest possible, and they just shortchanged her, or maybe only made her as strong as they were capable of doing.

 

 

Lanfear was born in AOL. My guess is that they had way of knowing how much a person can possibly channel without external aid. That's how. Just a guess Finn didn't give Lanfear her power back. There is no evidence that they can. We might discoer what happened to lanfear in next book. May be it was DO.

 

If they had a way of knowing that, then their way was wrong... Because Alivia just proved it wrong.

 

 

Why are you repeating same thing again and again? Alivia fought Cyndane, not Lanfear and Alivia had an ANGREAL!! With a decent angreal, the weakest Aes Sedai can best Dragon. What exactly that proves? Also brute strength is one power doesn't mean much. How you wield is important.

[karehiro]

If they had a way of knowing that, then their way was wrong... Because Alivia just proved it wrong.

 

lol no. As already stated, Alivia had aid in the form of angreal while Cyndane was not only unaided, but noticeably weaker than who she was as Lanfear. And even then she nearly killed Alivia and was fighting her evenly. And even in her weakened state, she is markedly stronger than Graendal which is incredible in of itself.

 

Lanfear was around the same tier of strength as Ishamael and Lews Therin. No woman even comes close to her. She is the strongest a woman could possibly be in the Power.

[lordofsoup]

She is still mindtrapped, so Moridin was probably looking at her, and Rand just happened to brush up against his conscience, allowing him to see what Moridin was seeing.

[nolirion]

 

 

 

Why are you repeating same thing again and again? Alivia fought Cyndane, not Lanfear and Alivia had an ANGREAL!! With a decent angreal, the weakest Aes Sedai can best Dragon. What exactly that proves? Also brute strength is one power doesn't mean much. How you wield is important.

Brute strength in the one power does mean something , Rand did beat the crap out a few forsaken with the help of Angreal(Asmodean like). Lanfear did managed that to .

Of course your talent in wielding it is important yet many forsaken where afraid to go out for Rand because of the angreal he posses . I mean it is like a pistol and a let's say a dragon .

My point is not absolute mind you

 

An to the trap Theory I will quote the Man

Lanfear holding back and doing good for Rand's sake? Ha! She was psychically fixed on possessing a man who never loved her. Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him. To be the one to deliver the Dragon Reborn to the service of the Shadow; that would set her above the other Forsaken. And learning that the access ter'angreal for the two huge sa'angreal were still in existence....Sure, she wanted his love--not least because it had been denied her; Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted--wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator. For Rand's sake? Not a chance.

[TheAngryDruid]

One theme from tGS that I was kind of disappointed that didn't get flushed out more was Moridin's connection to Rand.

 

When Rand found out the the DO was a nihilist, and Moridin approved (which is why he is first among the Chosen), I immediately thought, what would this do to the other Chosen (not to mention DF's) if it became common knowledge? They all think they are going to rule and live forever, but if a DO victory means death for everyone, and that victory is imminent, then isn't their death imminent also? If so, why am I with the Shadow, when I'd live longer if the Light wins. I'd be helping to hasten my own death?

 

I then wondered if Rand could somehow use this knowledge (like sul'dam channeling) to undermine the DO's power. Well, so much for that.

 

Still, Cyndane was always the one I thought would be most vulnerable to that type of persuasion (along with Graendal and Moggy). What if there is some type of seepage to the Mindtrap, and she now can perceive the truth of Moridin's mind, and due to it, the DO's nihilism?

 

I think there is a legit chance that Rand goes after her, and that she will help the Light. Whether for his sake, the Light's, or her own, or some combination.

 

People turn or are turned from the Light to the Shadow all the time. It shouldn't shock that it can also happen the other way (aside from Ingtar & Tomas).

[nolirion]

One theme from tGS that I was kind of disappointed that didn't get flushed out more was Moridin's connection to Rand.

 

When Rand found out the the DO was a nihilist, and Moridin approved (which is why he is first among the Chosen), I immediately thought, what would this do to the other Chosen (not to mention DF's) if it became common knowledge? They all think they are going to rule and live forever, but if a DO victory means death for everyone, and that victory is imminent, then isn't their death imminent also? If so, why am I with the Shadow, when I'd live longer if the Light wins. I'd be helping to hasten my own death?

 

I then wondered if Rand could somehow use this knowledge (like sul'dam channeling) to undermine the DO's power. Well, so much for that.

 

Still, Cyndane was always the one I thought would be most vulnerable to that type of persuasion (along with Graendal and Moggy). What if there is some type of seepage to the Mindtrap, and she now can perceive the truth of Moridin's mind, and due to it, the DO's nihilism?

 

I think there is a legit chance that Rand goes after her, and that she will help the Light. Whether for his sake, the Light's, or her own, or some combination.

 

People turn or are turned from the Light to the Shadow all the time. It shouldn't shock that it can also happen the other way (aside from Ingtar & Tomas).

He is not named the "Father of lie " for nothing , all what at been promised to the DF is a lie like what had been promise to the forsaken , most of those fool thirst for power and they are so short sited so foolishly sure they will achieve something .

[AutomatedTeller]

I'm not sure Moridin approves as much as believes it will happen and is just trying to maximize his existence while he can.

 

If you make certain assumptions, he's right, of course. If you make the assumption that there's a non-zero chance of him getting busted out each cycle, EVENTUALLY he'll win. That's not precisely true, of course, but the likelihood of him losing everytime is vanishingly small.

 

I dunno that his assumptions are true, of course. it may be that the way things are set up, there's no way that the light can lose in that way.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'm not sure Moridin approves as much as believes it will happen and is just trying to maximize his existence while he can.

 

If you make certain assumptions, he's right, of course. If you make the assumption that there's a non-zero chance of him getting busted out each cycle, EVENTUALLY he'll win. That's not precisely true, of course, but the likelihood of him losing everytime is vanishingly small.

 

I dunno that his assumptions are true, of course. it may be that the way things are set up, there's no way that the light can lose in that way.

 

Statistics is a funny science. Something that has happened before, even once, is more likely to happen again than that something new will happen. Thus it's more likely that the DO will remain imprisoned than that it will break free.

 

History repeats.

[nolirion]

I'm not sure Moridin approves as much as believes it will happen and is just trying to maximize his existence while he can.

 

If you make certain assumptions, he's right, of course. If you make the assumption that there's a non-zero chance of him getting busted out each cycle, EVENTUALLY he'll win. That's not precisely true, of course, but the likelihood of him losing everytime is vanishingly small.

 

I dunno that his assumptions are true, of course. it may be that the way things are set up, there's no way that the light can lose in that way.

That the point , for the circle to repeat itself Morridin will die before the aol return

[Sharaman]

Cyndi deduced correctly that Alivia had an ang'real since she was unnaturally strong.

We don't know whether it was her ego speaking when she PoV-ed that some woman being stronger than her old self unaided was impossible.

But her deduction was correct.

 

She's been out of it, since the WH cleansing - just one disparaging mention by Graendal. Why does she suddenly surface being tortured? There's no particular reason for either GLoD or Moridin to punish her. She performed at the cleansing as best she could and so far as we know, she's not failed at any task she's been set since.

 

It's tough to imagine her connect with Rand-LTT is so strong that she can pull him into her nightmare spontaneously. Even the women he's bonded to, don't do that and surely their connect is stronger. He's slept with three of them more recently (and lusted vaguely after Alanna a couple of times).

OTOH it's not tough to imagine that Cyndi can bust through his dream wards if she wants - she said she could, she's the mistress of the Dreamworld, and we haven't heard that Rand has changed his dream-wards since Asmo taught him.

She can present herself any way she chooses in dreamland.

 

The other thing that occurred to me is that this could Elan playing games - the whole thing may be Elan, pushing a dream creation into Rand 's head.

We know Elan can do that.

Rand's recognition of Mierin's soul is the only point against it but then Elan controls her mindtrap, he may be able to simulate her soul or imbue her dream-eyes with its essence.

[dwn]

In becoming Cyndane. Lanfear has almost lost her entire identity. Lanfear was tall and charismatic; Cyndane is described as a pretty little doll. Lanfear was the strongest female channeller on record; Cyndane is strong, but not remarkably so. Lanfear was one of the foremost among the Chosen; Cyndane is one of Moridin's mindtrapped pets. It's not hard to see how these changes could make her start to question herself. Cyndane as of WH is certainly not reformed, but an identity shift of this nature doesn't usually happen with a sudden epiphany.

 

Now, that doesn't mean the dream isn't still a trap. If Cyndane has indeed taken the first few steps away from the Shadow, that surely makes her the perfect bait for Rand.

 

-- dwn

[TheAngryDruid]

In becoming Cyndane. Lanfear has almost lost her entire identity. Lanfear was tall and charismatic; Cyndane is described as a pretty little doll. Lanfear was the strongest female channeller on record; Cyndane is strong, but not remarkably so. Lanfear was one of the foremost among the Chosen; Cyndane is one of Moridin's mindtrapped pets. It's not hard to see how these changes could make her start to question herself. Cyndane as of WH is certainly not reformed, but an identity shift of this nature doesn't usually happen with a sudden epiphany.

 

Now, that doesn't mean the dream isn't still a trap. If Cyndane has indeed taken the first few steps away from the Shadow, that surely makes her the perfect bait for Rand.

 

-- dwn

 

Cyndane is still remarkably strong. She's stronger than Moggy and Graendal from Greandal's POV, just not as strong as Lanfear, IIRC.

[ChrisTrebing]

I think this has something to do with his Morridin connection. It's true Lanfear said she could break Rand's wards if she wanted, but she also said it would be an unpleasant experience for him. This could either mean she would make it unpleasant, or that shattering the wards on someones dream is unpleasant. I have personally always believed the latter, and I also think Rand would notice if his ward was shattered. This has to be coming from Morridin in some way.

[Kidicaris]

It actually reminds me a lot of Ishy's "Kari" gambit back in tEotW.

 

 

Ooo, so true!

I wonder if Rand has learned that not every woman is Ilyena Sunhair, and his victim.

[mikegeo]

Another reason to bring Lanfear/Cyndane back into the picture is she was the one who originally drilled the bore. Rand still doesn't know how to patch/repair the bore, perhaps Lanfear may have some insight into the solution.

[Red2111]

i dont think that was Cyndane.  theres been no evidence to give us reason to believe she is being punished; besides she wouldn't be punished seeing as Mordin has her all nice and tied in a Myndtrap.

 

however, looking at the prologue, there is a Forsaken who is apparently in deserving of good punishment and such ...

 

 

 

 

"No" Shaidar Haran continued. "This opportunity has been given to another.  But Graendal, you shall not be forgotten."

 

She looked up, feeling a surge of hope.  those dead lips were smiling widely, that eyeless gaze fixed on her.  She felt a horrible sinking feeling.

 

"No," Shaidar Haran said, "I shall not forget you, and you shall not forget that which comes next.'

 

 

 

 

so the plan for killing Rand has been given to another.  i'm thinking it must be either Moggy or Lanfear, considering the image Rand had in his dream, i'm thinking it's Lanfear as she was the best manipulator of dreams aside from Mordin, and she knows herself well enough to disguise Grendal the right way.

 

this also hints and a major does of torture, which is why i believe the woman in Rands dream isn't Cyndane, but is Grendal with a weave making her look like Cyndane.

 

 

 

 

"I wish I were dead.  I wish it. Please! He grinds my bones * snaps them like twigs, then leaves me to die before healing me just enough to keep me alive.  He-"

 

notice the entire chapter she doesn't say who she is, nor does she call Rand by his name as lanfear always did, especially when she pleaded to him to help her in some way.  i'd say having ones bones Grindal & broken for the rest of eternity is a fitting punishment for what she cost the DO (2 forsaken and failing @ Perrin)

 

 

 

 

"He comes! The Shadow in every man's mind, the murderer of truth. No!"

 

shadow of every mans mind?  sounds like a mydraal to me.  the murderer of truth, well he is Shaidar Haran, Right hand of the DO himself. lmao

 

 

 

 

its a trap, set by Cyndane, using Grendal; because in order for Rand to be fooled she had to use someone who was there physically in the dream and who wasnt faking that torture or fear.

 

 

[Sharaman]

i dont think that was Cyndane.  theres been no evidence to give us reason to believe she is being punished; besides she wouldn't be punished seeing as Mordin has her all nice and tied in a Myndtrap.

 

however, looking at the prologue, there is a Forsaken who is apparently in deserving of good punishment and such ...

 

 

 

 

"No" Shaidar Haran continued. "This opportunity has been given to another.  But Graendal, you shall not be forgotten."

 

She looked up, feeling a surge of hope.  those dead lips were smiling widely, that eyeless gaze fixed on her.  She felt a horrible sinking feeling.

 

"No," Shaidar Haran said, "I shall not forget you, and you shall not forget that which comes next.'

 

 

 

 

so the plan for killing Rand has been given to another.  i'm thinking it must be either Moggy or Lanfear, considering the image Rand had in his dream, i'm thinking it's Lanfear as she was the best manipulator of dreams aside from Mordin, and she knows herself well enough to disguise Grendal the right way.

 

this also hints and a major does of torture, which is why i believe the woman in Rands dream isn't Cyndane, but is Grendal with a weave making her look like Cyndane.

 

 

 

 

"I wish I were dead.  I wish it. Please! He grinds my bones * snaps them like twigs, then leaves me to die before healing me just enough to keep me alive.  He-"

 

notice the entire chapter she doesn't say who she is, nor does she call Rand by his name as lanfear always did, especially when she pleaded to him to help her in some way.  i'd say having ones bones Grindal & broken for the rest of eternity is a fitting punishment for what she cost the DO (2 forsaken and failing @ Perrin)

 

 

 

 

"He comes! The Shadow in every man's mind, the murderer of truth. No!"

 

shadow of every mans mind?  sounds like a mydraal to me.  the murderer of truth, well he is Shaidar Haran, Right hand of the DO himself. lmao

 

 

 

 

its a trap, set by Cyndane, using Grendal; because in order for Rand to be fooled she had to use someone who was there physically in the dream and who wasnt faking that torture or fear.

Why not a trap set by Cyndane using Cyndane?

Rand has no clue she exists let alone what she looks like. She can do whatever she likes with her appearance and we know Lanfear doesn't have a problem looking bat-ugly either in TAR or with MoM.

Here she just has to look distressed, sob a bit and gaze soulfully and yeah she can surely do that!!

[Bob T Dwarf]

its a trap, set by Cyndane, using Grendal; because in order for Rand to be fooled she had to use someone who was there physically in the dream and who wasnt faking that torture or fear.

 

Ummmmm........ Rand recognizes the soul not the outer appearance.

 

Unless this is SOME Mask of Mirrors that somehow exposes the first flaw in Mahatma Rand, if he says it's Mieren, then it's Mieren.

[Demon_AS]

I think this has something to do with his Morridin connection. It's true Lanfear said she could break Rand's wards if she wanted, but she also said it would be an unpleasant experience for him. This could either mean she would make it unpleasant, or that shattering the wards on someones dream is unpleasant. I have personally always believed the latter, and I also think Rand would notice if his ward was shattered. This has to be coming from Morridin in some way.

I was going to make this same point until I read your post. Moridin holds Cyndane's soul in a mind-trap... I don't think anyone really knows how that works exactly, so it stands to reason that a manifestation of Mierin's soul is lying around in Moridin's brain.

 

We know Rand and Moridin have been connected ever since their balefire streams crossed paths.

 

I think it makes sense that Rand may have gotten a distress call from Mierin's soul now that he is - as Bob T. Dwarf put it - "Mahatma" Rand (which made me chuckle) because it somehow transmitted across this bond/channel to Moridin's mind.

 

I still suspect a ploy, though... I recall Cyndane wanting to end Rand while he was cleaning saidin.