Elayne's Arc

[Fel]

Slightly off topic, but why does Elayne become queen of Cairhein? Wouldn't Galad's claim be much stronger since he is her elder brother from the same father that gave her lineage into the cairheinien line? That was the plan of Taragail in the first place - son ruling cairhein, daughter ruling andor. It seems that Elayne jumped over the claims of her elder brother without even thinking about it.

 

I had expected Galad to take that throne when Galad was talking about having the Children integrate into a country instead of operating from the outside. He did have a much better claim than most (and, though he does not know it, is the half brother of the Dragon...). But, i guess galad does not have the Dragon handing the throne to him and it did not occur to Elayne.

[Mulk]

Why not Galad? I suspect the reasons would be as follows in no particular order

 

1) He probably doesn't want to be king

2) Elayne's claim is backed by the Dragon Reborn

3) He's not crooked enough to politic to get it; I mean, he's Lord Captain Commander based on acclaim for his actions and character, not because he's most qualified and his most noticeable trait is that he always does the right thing.

[David Selig]

You answered it yourself - the Dragon preferred his girlfriend. ;)

 

I am not sure that being older matters in this case anyway. Neither Galad nor Elayne are relatives of the last Cairhien King (Galdrian Riatin), and neither of them is the High Seat of the Damodred House (that's Caraline Damodred). It's more about who among the several possible claimants of the throne has the most military and political support behind him/her, with the word of the Dragon Reborn being decisive.

 

Also I highly doubt Galad would've gathered any support among the Cairhienian Houses. Such a righteous and unwilling to compromise King is the last thing those Daes Dai'Mar obsessed nobles wanted. Even if they were forced to accept him (Rand forcing them for example) he's probably be assassinated or have a coup against him really soon.

 

Not sure if Galad would've accepted the Sun Throne anyway, given that he already has what he sees as the most righteous possible duty as the leader of the Whitecloacks. He probably wouldn't be allowed to share both positions.

[blazetheearth]

Slightly off topic, but why does Elayne become queen of Cairhein? Wouldn't Galad's claim be much stronger since he is her elder brother from the same father that gave her lineage into the cairheinien line? That was the plan of Taragail in the first place - son ruling cairhein, daughter ruling andor. It seems that Elayne jumped over the claims of her elder brother without even thinking about it.

 

I had expected Galad to take that throne when Galad was talking about having the Children integrate into a country instead of operating from the outside. He did have a much better claim than most (and, though he does not know it, is the half brother of the Dragon...). But, i guess galad does not have the Dragon handing the throne to him and it did not occur to Elayne.

 

I'll add another reason to those above, because he is fated to find a different country to anchor the WC's in. Min's Viewing of him and Berilain (sp) meant that the relationship that we see beginning in ToM will end up with Galad married to her and that would lead one to think the WC's will become welcome in Mayene. No need for Cairhien and all of the trouble that land has had.

[Val Mickey]

...He was raised to be High Lord of the Two Rivers. That's exactly what that means.

 

No, he wasn't. Perrin is to be High Lord and the Steward.

 

An unusual case, perhaps, but not unprecedented in the series or reality.

 

No. It hasn't happened in the series before Elayne.

 

Duke of Normandy becoming King of England - England and France remained separate countries.

 

And would he have admitted that the French king was his king?

 

Elayne is not Rand's Queen. Which was the point I was trying to make. I can see why you think Rand is Andoran, which was not what was being discussed. Elayne has no authority over Rand just because he was born in Andor. Not anymore. Once he was crowned King of Illian, he became her equal. I admit that I phrased my sentence poorly, when what I meant was that he was not an ordinary citizen of Andor. He is Andoran by upbringing and culture, true.

 

I admire your rhetoric. Honestly.

[blazetheearth]

I completely understand and believe that Eggy did exactly as Rand intended she would, and since I think that Eggy was doing Rand's bidding (whether she knows it or not) I also believe that the results were ta'veren work.

How so? I've heard this line of reasoning before, but don't really understand it.

 

 

Sorry for the callback to this point from a couple of days ago, but I found the relevant quote. From ToM Epilogue "And After" pg 838: Rand PoV

 

No, this was one of his own ordinary dreams. He controlled them now. They were a place he could find peace to think, protected by wards while his body slept beside Min in their new camp, surrounded by Borderlanders, set up on the Fields of Merrilor. Egwene was there, with armies marshaled. He was ready for that. He'd counted on it.

 

Emphasis is mine but the words are the ones that Mahatma-Rand thinks to himself just before his Cyndane dream. Since he counted on her gathering armies, it would seem to indicate that he knew she would do exactly what she did, and that he wanted her to do it.

[moratcorlm]

...He was raised to be High Lord of the Two Rivers. That's exactly what that means.

 

No, he wasn't. Perrin is to be High Lord and the Steward.

This sort of misremembrance isn't helping your case.

[Mr Ares]

...He was raised to be High Lord of the Two Rivers. That's exactly what that means.

 

No, he wasn't. Perrin is to be High Lord and the Steward.

Actually, Perrin is Steward, Rand is High Lord.

 

"Give the Two Rivers to the Dragon Reborn", Morgase said.

 

"If the lands are granted to the Dragon Reborn, giving him a title in Andor and making the Two Rivers his seat, it will make sense for your home to be treated differently." "We'll have him appoint Perrin's line as his Stewards."

The High Lord idea was put forward for Perrin, but it was noted that other nobles wouldn't like it. So, Rand was made High Lord, and Perrin his Steward.

 

An unusual case, perhaps, but not unprecedented in the series or reality.

 

No. It hasn't happened in the series before Elayne.

Rand is the lawful ruler of Tear (the King of Tear is his Steward there), and King of Illian, and car'a'carn of the Aiel.

 

Duke of Normandy becoming King of England - England and France remained separate countries.

 

And would he have admitted that the French king was his king?

Yes. In matters relating to Normandy, he was a vassal of the French King. In matters relating to England, he was King of England and thus stood, more or less, equal. It was one of the reasons for the Hundred Years' War - the then King of England put forward a claim to the French Throne, thus making him a rival claimant, and therefore an equal, not a vassal.

 

Elayne is not Rand's Queen. Which was the point I was trying to make. I can see why you think Rand is Andoran, which was not what was being discussed. Elayne has no authority over Rand just because he was born in Andor. Not anymore. Once he was crowned King of Illian, he became her equal.

In some respects, they are, in others he is her inferior, in yet other he is her superior. He is an Andoran citizen (now Lord), thus under her in Andoran law. He is a foreign ruler (consequently, he stands equal to her on the international stage), and he is the Dragon Reborn (and as saviour of humanity, has a role that supercedes any monarch). These three things are not mutually exclusive. True, he is not an ordinary citizen of Andor. But, as an Andoran, and a Andoran Lord, she is his queen. Of course, being High Lord of Andor doesn't put any responsibilities on him unless and until he returns to claim his seat - Perrin, as his Steward, is in charge.

 

I admire your rhetoric. Honestly.

It's nice to see my efforts are appreciated.

 

 

I completely understand and believe that Eggy did exactly as Rand intended she would, and since I think that Eggy was doing Rand's bidding (whether she knows it or not) I also believe that the results were ta'veren work.

How so? I've heard this line of reasoning before, but don't really understand it.

 

Sorry for the callback to this point from a couple of days ago, but I found the relevant quote. From ToM Epilogue "And After" pg 838: Rand PoV

 

No, this was one of his own ordinary dreams. He controlled them now. They were a place he could find peace to think, protected by wards while his body slept beside Min in their new camp, surrounded by Borderlanders, set up on the Fields of Merrilor. Egwene was there, with armies marshaled. He was ready for that. He'd counted on it.

 

Emphasis is mine but the words are the ones that Mahatma-Rand thinks to himself just before his Cyndane dream. Since he counted on her gathering armies, it would seem to indicate that he knew she would do exactly what she did, and that he wanted her to do it.

The question is, why would he want her to do it? If he just wanted the armies there, he could get most of them himself just by asking, and maybe asking for Egwene's help. What does he gain by setting up a conflict? Also, Mahatma-Rand? Why not just go for Randhi?

[David Selig]

I am wondering how will Aviendgha take the news that her first-sister has become a Queen of the Treekillers. She'd probably be appalled Elayne is now the leader of those worthless subhumans.

 

Come to think of it, does Aviendha know that Elayne's father was not only a Treekiller, but a nephew to Laman himself?

[randsc]

Again, Ares, Rand is not an Andoran Lord. The fact that Perrin and Elayne worked out this little deal between them doesn't mean anything. One has to accept a fief, and agree to the mutual obligations implied thereby.

 

I find it a bit amusing that you are attempting to apply modern (or at least early modern) notions of national citizenship while at the same time applying medieval notions of the prerogatives of royalty. They really don't mix.

[Val Mickey]

...He was raised to be High Lord of the Two Rivers. That's exactly what that means.

 

No, he wasn't. Perrin is to be High Lord and the Steward.

This sort of misremembrance isn't helping your case.

 

Elayne hesitated, then nodded."That will be fine. But the other Houses won't like this High Lord business. There'd need to be a way around it..."

"Give the Two Rivers to the Dragon Reborn," Morgase said.

Elayne's eyes lit up. "Yes. That would work. If I gave the area to him to be his seat in Andor..."

 

It is clear that Elayne intends to have Perrin as High Lord. Otherwise the title would go to Rand and his children, while it is clear that this will pass on to Faile's progeny (for whom Elayne bargained for, and sort of secured).

 

And then Elayne goes on to say that Rand is given a title to the land, and that Rand will appoint Perrin's line as stewards. So Perrin is to be the Steward too.

 

And misremembrance is not a word. 'Misremember' is one, though. So is comprehension.

 

 

An unusual case, perhaps, but not unprecedented in the series or reality.

 

No. It hasn't happened in the series before Elayne.

Rand is the lawful ruler of Tear (the King of Tear is his Steward there), and King of Illian, and car'a'carn of the Aiel.

 

Duke of Normandy becoming King of England - England and France remained separate countries.

 

And would he have admitted that the French king was his king?

Yes. In matters relating to Normandy, he was a vassal of the French King. In matters relating to England, he was King of England and thus stood, more or less, equal. It was one of the reasons for the Hundred Years' War - the then King of England put forward a claim to the French Throne, thus making him a rival claimant, and therefore an equal, not a vassal.

 

I seriously doubt that first statement, seeing as it was before the rise of nationalism. Though if you say so, I'll concede. But if they ever met face to face, in whatever capacities, they would've faced each other off as equals.

 

Rand is the lawful ruler of Tear (the King of Tear is his Steward there), and King of Illian, and car'a'carn of the Aiel.

 

Rand was the ruler of Tear, and of Cairhien (as the High Seats of the houses of both swore fealty to him.) But he had no title other than that of the Lord Dragon, so my statement still stands. Elayne's is a special case, and is unprecedented. Being the Car'acarn means diddly squat to the nobles, since to them the Aiel are not a nation.

 

Elayne is not Rand's Queen. Which was the point I was trying to make. I can see why you think Rand is Andoran, which was not what was being discussed. Elayne has no authority over Rand just because he was born in Andor. Not anymore. Once he was crowned King of Illian, he became her equal.

In some respects, they are, in others he is her inferior, in yet other he is her superior. He is an Andoran citizen (now Lord), thus under her in Andoran law. He is a foreign ruler (consequently, he stands equal to her on the international stage), and he is the Dragon Reborn (and as saviour of humanity, has a role that supercedes any monarch). These three things are not mutually exclusive. True, he is not an ordinary citizen of Andor. But, as an Andoran, and a Andoran Lord, she is his queen. Of course, being High Lord of Andor doesn't put any responsibilities on him unless and until he returns to claim his seat - Perrin, as his Steward, is in charge.

 

There is no situation in which he is not all three. Therefore his obvious superiority will always take precedence. Which is amply illustrated throughout the books.

[blazetheearth]

The question is, why would he want her to do it? If he just wanted the armies there, he could get most of them himself just by asking, and maybe asking for Egwene's help. What does he gain by setting up a conflict? Also, Mahatma-Rand? Why not just go for Randhi?

 

I stole Mahatma-Rand from another thread, but I like Randhi better and will start using it now. Thanks .

 

As far as why have her do it. Rand has many other things on his plate at the time. Rand expects Egwene to be confrontational to his ideas, and if he had told her that he wants to hold the world hostage by not going to SG at all if they don't agree and then gave her 30 days to think it over it is possible that she or others might have found a way to stop him. But when you look at what he has set up by only giving her a piece of his overall plan, this worked like a charm. He has all of the major rulers (outside Seanchan) of Randland in one spot with their armies. He knows that by the time of FoM no of the rulers would actually dare kill him (if they could). Now he has the perfect location and setting to deliver his full plan and ultimatum. And Egwene created it for him. It is a platform and a launching point for TG.

 

Another reason that it was easier for him to having Eggy do it is her access to channelers to create Gateways. His current access to those is limited to those sworn to him, and the Asha'man he had kept with him. He can't just send to the BT for a few dozen AM at this point (referring to VoG, in tGS he said that the BT was a perfect trap for him, so he knew before not being able to Travel there that he couldn't trust them for things like this any more). Where as Eggy can have 13 Sisters link and bring Darlin's army through in a few hours. Much easier and faster than 13 Gateways big enough for 1 cart. And that would leave the standing armies in place for as long as possible.

He knows that his ultimatum will work and he could not have arranged a better setting for it himself.

 

And Egwene was always going to be confrontational toward Rand (Foretelling dontcha know "Know the Amrylin's anger" and all that (no, I'm not saying Rand knew of the Fortelling but he knows Egwene)). She had decided that back when she heard of AS swearing fealty to him and then later about AM bonding AS. Nyn had told him (in CoT or KoD it think) that Eggy was not happy about the swearing fealty thing. He had reasons to expect he to want to be confrontational with him. So he used that aspect of her to get what he wanted. If she felt confrontational and he'd wanted a peaceful sit down to discuss plans, then we would have seen a similar effect to what happen between Toun and Darth Rand. Instead she felt fine because she was going along with what Rand expected of her.

[randsc]

Another reason that it was easier for him to having Eggy do it is her access to channelers to create Gateways. His current access to those is limited to those sworn to him, and the Asha'man he had kept with him. He can't just send to the BT for a few dozen AM at this point (referring to VoG, in tGS he said that the BT was a perfect trap for him, so he knew before not being able to Travel there that he couldn't trust them for things like this any more). Where as Eggy can have 13 Sisters link and bring Darlin's army through in a few hours. Much easier and faster than 13 Gateways big enough for 1 cart. And that would leave the standing armies in place for as long as possible.

 

I definately agree that Rand wanted and expected Egwene's reaction. But I don't think I agree with this.

 

As long as Rand has a single female channeler that knows the weave. Then he can have it taught to all of the Aiel Wise Ones, who greatly outnumber Aes Sedai.

 

Of course, if it was up to Egwene, the Wise Ones would be prevented from learning anything without her permission. After all, we have been given no indication that Egwene has shared with the Wise Ones the method for freeing someone from a Seanchan leash. A further indication of Egwene's evil, that.

[blazetheearth]

Another reason that it was easier for him to having Eggy do it is her access to channelers to create Gateways. His current access to those is limited to those sworn to him, and the Asha'man he had kept with him. He can't just send to the BT for a few dozen AM at this point (referring to VoG, in tGS he said that the BT was a perfect trap for him, so he knew before not being able to Travel there that he couldn't trust them for things like this any more). Where as Eggy can have 13 Sisters link and bring Darlin's army through in a few hours. Much easier and faster than 13 Gateways big enough for 1 cart. And that would leave the standing armies in place for as long as possible.

 

I definately agree that Rand wanted and expected Egwene's reaction. But I don't think I agree with this.

 

As long as Rand has a single female channeler that knows the weave. Then he can have it taught to all of the Aiel Wise Ones, who greatly outnumber Aes Sedai.

 

Of course, if it was up to Egwene, the Wise Ones would be prevented from learning anything without her permission. After all, we have been given no indication that Egwene has shared with the Wise Ones the method for freeing someone from a Seanchan leash. A further indication of Egwene's evil, that.

 

He could have but we have not seen many if any instances of WO's just doing as they are told with the exception of taking on AS as apprentices. Again he would have to sit down and convince them to do as he asked and the importance of it. He'd have to convince the WO to do it. Where as one quick visit to the WT gets it all done for him. The WO's do what they do for their own reasons, not because the Ca'carn (sp) tells them to do it. I would agree about using them if they were oathsworn to do as he says.

[moratcorlm]

...He was raised to be High Lord of the Two Rivers. That's exactly what that means.

 

No, he wasn't. Perrin is to be High Lord and the Steward.

This sort of misremembrance isn't helping your case.

 

Elayne hesitated, then nodded."That will be fine. But the other Houses won't like this High Lord business. There'd need to be a way around it..."

"Give the Two Rivers to the Dragon Reborn," Morgase said.

Elayne's eyes lit up. "Yes. That would work. If I gave the area to him to be his seat in Andor..."

 

It is clear that Elayne intends to have Perrin as High Lord. Otherwise the title would go to Rand and his children, while it is clear that this will pass on to Faile's progeny (for whom Elayne bargained for, and sort of secured).

 

And then Elayne goes on to say that Rand is given a title to the land, and that Rand will appoint Perrin's line as stewards. So Perrin is to be the Steward too.

 

And misremembrance is not a word. 'Misremember' is one, though. So is comprehension.

Sure it is; usage is well-attested. I was trying to be kind and not call it a lie, but now that you yourself quote the agreement that states exactly the opposite of what you claim...

We'll have him appoint Perrin's line as his stewards. [...] "That seems reasonable," Perrin said, nodding. "Steward of the Two Rivers. I like the sound of that."

In fact Elayne creates no "High Lord" at all.

[babuada]

In fact Elayne creates no "High Lord" at all.

Yes. That means Rand is no high lord. TR is his seat in Andor. And high lords do not have steward, only kings have. Having a seat is diferent from being a high lord.

[Val Mickey]

Here is my take on those events - To absolve Perrin and the Two Rivers from their 'crime' of rebellion, Elayne grants the Two Rivers autonomy. She recognises Perrin as High Lord of the Two Rivers and agrees to put him above the other Houses. To gain from this, she also desires that Perrin's line will eventually be mixed with that of Trakand's. Giving the TR to the DR is a ploy to make Perrin's High Lord status and the TR autonomy palatable to the other Houses.

 

Mr Ares (and many other readers, in fact most) claim that the TR is to be autonomous, Rand is to be High Lord, Perrin is to be Steward of the TR.

 

What you,moratcorlm, claim is that Elayne did not create the High Lord title. I'm assuming that is what you claim, since it is unclear whether that statement refers to your opinion, or whether that is what comes through my previous post. If it is the first, I can see why you think that way, since the words are ambiguous enough to warrant another two explanations, and also I can see how those words could be taken so. All I will point out is that you could've posted this the first time, instead of making a 'kind' comment or correcting a mistake.

 

I would also like to apologize for that Comprehension comment, since I mistook your pity for you being petty. Your knowledge of all things WoT rivals that of Luckers and that of Terez, and surely that means a greater understanding of the series and of the events within.

 

That being said, misremembrance is not a word. Here are the relevant search results at Merriam Webster, Chambers, Oxford, Orient Longman, and the Free Dictionary.

 

I will stick to my opinion that Perrin is now a High Lord. I will also stick to my (I was just helping out some poor guy!) stance that Elayne is not the Queen of Rand. I will not reply on these subjects unless there is a very compelling argument and/or evidence for it. This silence is not to be construed as giving in to your claims.

 

To divert the discussion, I observed that Elayne does not intend for her children to 'inherit' Illian. What gives?

[moratcorlm]

What you,moratcorlm, claim is that Elayne did not create the High Lord title.

She does not do so in this scene, at least. And she does note that the other great houses of Andor would dislike such a title, though they may be willing to let it slide for Rand. She may create Rand High Lord of the Two Rivers at a later date; maybe she'll just create him a Lord; who knows. In any event, I think it's very unlikely Perrin will be named more than Steward, the position he (and Faile) agree to.

Your knowledge of all things WoT rivals that [...] of Terez [...] misremembrance is not a word.

Please don't let her see that, and 4700 google hits say otherwise.

To divert the discussion, I observed that Elayne does not intend for her children to 'inherit' Illian. What gives?

That's an interesting question. One likely possibility is that the Council of Nine and Assemblage have similar power to the Council of Merchants in Arad Doman or the nineteen great houses of Andor and would refuse to allow such a succession. There's also the (completely ahistorical and kind of bizarre) alliance she apparently thinks that Illian and Tear are forming:

It might also give us some ground against the Illian-Tear pact you mentioned, who are bound to claim that their ties to Rand give them the right of conquest.

[Val Mickey]

4700 google hits say otherwise.

 

 

Misunderestimate has 32,500 results. That does not make it a legit word. Google is no substitute for the Oxford Dictionary. Or the Cambridge one. Or the Merriam Webster.

 

One likely possibility is that the Council of Nine and Assemblage have similar power to the Council of Merchants in Arad Doman or the nineteen great houses of Andor and would refuse to allow such a succession.

 

But surely the armies of Andor, Cairhien, the Two Rivers, Ghealdan, Mayene, and the Whitecloaks are enough to convince them otherwise? Despite being dumb at strategy (and good at tactics), Elayne seems to be good at political strategy, so far. Makes me wonder if this is a minor gaffe.

[blazetheearth]

4700 google hits say otherwise.

 

 

Misunderestimate has 32,500 results. That does not make it a legit word. Google is no substitute for the Oxford Dictionary. Or the Cambridge one. Or the Merriam Webster.

 

One likely possibility is that the Council of Nine and Assemblage have similar power to the Council of Merchants in Arad Doman or the nineteen great houses of Andor and would refuse to allow such a succession.

 

But surely the armies of Andor, Cairhien, the Two Rivers, Ghealdan, Mayene, and the Whitecloaks are enough to convince them otherwise? Despite being dumb at strategy (and good at tactics), Elayne seems to be good at political strategy, so far. Makes me wonder if this is a minor gaffe.

 

Part of that goes to mind set. How could she convince the mysterious Tear-Illian pact to accept her and Rand's children on the throne of Illian? By threatening to go to war with them? Not gonna happen. Elayne probably would not have put forward a claim to the Sun Throne if it had meant sending Andoran soldiers to die. I realize that right now, it could be said she is saving her armies for TG, but if we look back through her PoV, she rarely threatens force to make others do as she wants. She'd much rather talk than fight. The only reason the listed armies would convince the Council of Nine to accept her kid as King would be if she threatened to start a war to make it so. When she is thinking of those armies, it is a purely defensive thought. Besides she knows from Eggy that Mattin Stepaneos is in the WT, and she knows Rand well enough to know that he'd probably give the Crown of Swords back to Mattin.

[Perrin is Hot]

I love ToM, but unfortunately it made me hate Elayne. I realize she's Queen and all and needs to act the part, but threatening to execute one of the people she knows HAS to be at Tarmon Gaidon or they all lose... that's just stupid.

[Durinax]

I love ToM, but unfortunately it made me hate Elayne. I realize she's Queen and all and needs to act the part, but threatening to execute one of the people she knows HAS to be at Tarmon Gaidon or they all lose... that's just stupid.

she knows that how?

[Perrin is Hot]

I love ToM, but unfortunately it made me hate Elayne. I realize she's Queen and all and needs to act the part, but threatening to execute one of the people she knows HAS to be at Tarmon Gaidon or they all lose... that's just stupid.

she knows that how?

 

She's been around them long enough to know, don't you think? She knows he's Ta'veren. She knows how important Ta'veren are in the last battle. Simple deduction implies the rest even without first hand knowledge of the prophecies or Min's viewings, which I'm pretty sure that she has been exposed to both.

[Durinax]

I love ToM, but unfortunately it made me hate Elayne. I realize she's Queen and all and needs to act the part, but threatening to execute one of the people she knows HAS to be at Tarmon Gaidon or they all lose... that's just stupid.

she knows that how?

She's been around them long enough to know, don't you think? She knows he's Ta'veren. She knows how important Ta'veren are in the last battle. Simple deduction implies the rest even without first hand knowledge of the prophecies or Min's viewings, which I'm pretty sure that she has been exposed to both.

then she may also know that you can lose taveren status, and not be important anymore.

 

so both are possibilities. Or maybe perrins taverenism caused her to say what she did in order to get what perrin wanted.

 

maybe since all 3 taveren are interconnected that since rand has control over his taverenism that maybe all 3 have control over it, and it was the easiest way to get faile off his case

[Perrin is Hot]

I love ToM, but unfortunately it made me hate Elayne. I realize she's Queen and all and needs to act the part, but threatening to execute one of the people she knows HAS to be at Tarmon Gaidon or they all lose... that's just stupid.

she knows that how?

She's been around them long enough to know, don't you think? She knows he's Ta'veren. She knows how important Ta'veren are in the last battle. Simple deduction implies the rest even without first hand knowledge of the prophecies or Min's viewings, which I'm pretty sure that she has been exposed to both.

then she may also know that you can lose taveren status, and not be important anymore.

 

so both are possibilities. Or maybe perrins taverenism caused her to say what she did in order to get what perrin wanted.

 

maybe since all 3 taveren are interconnected that since rand has control over his taverenism that maybe all 3 have control over it, and it was the easiest way to get faile off his case

 

I think it's a safe bet that our 3 taverens would remain so until some time after the last battle, which Elayne would also conclude if she were smart.

 

I did consider (and do not doubt) that Perrin's taveren nature was at work during the whole conversation with Elayne, but even so, Elayne still could have doomed their world and she should know better by now who the major (and necessary) players are. No I do not like her any longer.