Ebook release delayed until Nov 2011 at Harriet's request.

[Greeny]

Harriet has every right to do whatever she wishes. However, maybe she doesn't realize that I want the legal copy of the e-book NOW. How could she? She doesn't know me. I want to give her money (even if she doesn't care if she gets the money, maybe she should care about whether Brandon gets his share...or is she taking advantage of him?), but she is forcing me down a road I don't want to go down. (Yes, forcing. Whichever road I choose, I don't want...because she is blocking the only one I do want to go down).

 

I have the right to respectfully request that she reconsider. If she has arranged somewhere I can contact her, then maybe someone can direct me. If not, then that's fine too. It is her right to maintain her own limits in contact with fans. However, I still have the right to disagree with her decision.

[nophone]

Harriet, if you are worried about pirating, don't you realize the audio version will be shared too?

 

 

I am of the opinion that if you want to buy a book you should buy... a book. Silly as it sounds, reading something on a computer screen or an e-reader doesn't feel the same to me. For some reason I don't feel as if I'm reading a book, and it feels less... literary? I'm not sure.

 

 

your opinion is irreverent to the profitability of epublishing, or the ambition of the pirate community. the written word will never be fully defeated, but the increasing commonality of electric publishing means that pirated copies will be made more easily available.

 

the truth is that an electric version of this book will probably be leaked and published online with our without consent or through legal measures. the best thing for the company to do is to release the book. otherwise they force the hand of the pirate community and squander their own profits.

[subx]

I've been lurking these forums a long time and never really feel a need to post, but this is pretty upsetting. They are fine taking my money on an e-copy of a teaser (one chapter for $2.99), but now they want to double-dip into even more (making us buy a hard copy and an e-book copy later) of peoples hard earned money.

 

I just think it's pretty shady to do it this way.

 

Also paper does not make a good book. A good book is a good book, regardless of how you read it. I refuse to waste a bunch of paper and lug around a 5 pound hard copy when the entire reason I bought an e-reader was to avoid doing that.

 

The issue I have is with the general trend toward books becoming cheaper and cheaper(and I think the people who champion this desire are, eh, non-nice individuals. Selfish? Perhaps. I don't know). Consider the fact that a movie ticket is 10 bucks for an hour of entertainment; a video game is 60 for ~10 hours usually (there are exceptions, of course). What about a book? 10-20 bucks usually, 10-20 hours if it's a good length and reading ability... and books make you think, and feel, in ways that other entertainment can't. As ebooks become readily available, and become less expensive, they're diminishing the value of the written word even further than it has already been devalued.

 

This is silly - do you know how much more money it takes to produce a movie, or a video game? Do you realize how many people it takes to do either of those things? I'm not saying a book isn't a decent value for the person buying it, but there's a reason games and movies cost so much - they cost a LOT more to make.

 

A large part of what you're paying for in any hardcopy work is a competent editor. Somebody to keep the story on track and chugging along to its conclusion.

 

Self-publishing deprives both the author and the reader of the benefit that a good editor provides. That alone makes least cost/ least price electronic publishing bad for the entire literary world.

 

As jobs continue to disappear and incomes continue to decline for "average folks", price pressure will force more and more of all forms of publishing to be digital, and quality of product will decline accordingly.

 

How does a book being an e-book have anything to do with how well it's edited? You do realize virtually all editing is done on a computer anyways, right? Even if all hard-copy books suddenly went away, there wouldn't suddenly be no edited books. Publishers might have to change direction a bit (promotion would become their biggest business, as opposed to printing), but editors would still be around.

[randsc]

Look, this is Harriet's retirement plan we're talking about. She wants to extend the revenue stream as far into the future as possible. It's understandable, even if it is frustrating. I really don't think it has anything at all to do with her publishing philosophy.

[JenniferL]

Alright, let's not accuse Harriet of doing this out of greed. None of us have talked to her about it and we don't know her motivations.

[randsc]

It's not greed, it's business. I have no problem with it.

[Alanna]

The main reason eBooks are cheaper is because they're digital, so there's no cost of paper, biding, dust jackets, ink - you know, those production costs. So books are not becoming cheaper; their value (and the value of the writer) is not going down. Hardcopy books, like most things, are actually becoming more and more expensive throughout the years. I say this as a writer, a bookseller, and a publisher, not as a greedy, selfish customer who just wants everything for free.

 

The prices of things are not determined by hours of enjoyment. The prices of things are determined by productions costs. As subx said, it costs quite a lot of make and produce a film; that is what determines the cost of a movie ticket. The same goes for a book; production costs are cheaper for eBooks as opposed to harcopies, and that is why they are cheaper.

 

That said, yes, books (digital books) being cheaper is probably championed by a lot of selfish people. It's probably also championed by people who don't make a lot of money and still wants to enjoy books. The cheaper books are, the more people they are available to, and personally, I'm all for a higher literacy rates and more people in the world enjoying books.

 

Also, it's probably true that with things going digital, it will be easier for people to sell their, um, poor-quality novels (because it makes self-publishing easier and more accesible). But I doubt that the services provided by publishing houses will become obsolete, namely, editing. Those jobs will simply probably become private contracting jobs, as a lot of them already are. Most publishing houses hire out for copyeditors, proofreaders, and artists (for dust jackets); they don't have their own on staff anymore. I do hold that editors will always be important for good-quality novels, though. Computers can't stand next to a good editor; spellcheck and things like that are obviously flawed.

 

That said, I love eBooks and hardcopy books equally; I can easily get the hardback on November 2, so that's what I will be doing. I really hope they can come to some agreement to release the eBook earlier, though, since a lot of people can't get it on November 2, and that's why they have a Kindle. But ultimately, it is Harriet's decision and we should respect that.

[Greeny]

I don't think Harriet's decision has anything to do with greed. I think she has too much respect for the books than that.

 

I believe that she made the decision based on her opinion of e-books. For whatever reason, she doesn't like them. I don't have to accept it, though. At least not quietly. I have a feeling I can't contact her directly, but I'm hoping the blog backlash will get back to her. I believe she's paying attention.

 

Harriet, I want the e-book released NOW, not next year. I want to buy this book NOW. I want to buy it as an E-BOOK. Please don't force me to borrow a copy. Or download a copy (as MANY fans are going to choose to do this). Doesn't it bother you that many will be reading it as a poor quality pirated copy rather than a quality e-book? Not everyone is a purist about these things.

 

Please, please Harriet, please reconsider!!

[Kara]

I don't think Harriet's decision has anything to do with greed. I think she has too much respect for the books than that.

 

I believe that she made the decision based on her opinion of e-books. For whatever reason, she doesn't like them. I don't have to accept it, though. At least not quietly. I have a feeling I can't contact her directly, but I'm hoping the blog backlash will get back to her. I believe she's paying attention.

 

Harriet, I want the e-book released NOW, not next year. I want to buy this book NOW. I want to buy it as an E-BOOK. Please don't force me to borrow a copy. Or download a copy (as MANY fans are going to choose to do this). Doesn't it bother you that many will be reading it as a poor quality pirated copy rather than a quality e-book? Not everyone is a purist about these things.

 

Please, please Harriet, please reconsider!!

 

I am with you Greeny - Harriet PLEASE reconsider. I will buy the hardcover and the ebook. The hardcover to add to my collection (UK covers even though I live in the US) and the ebook to read and carry with me everywhere...

 

I have even posted to Brandon's Facebook asking him to discuss this with Harriet on our behalf

[firstfishman]

[sorry, too far by half]

[yoniy0]

Before I begin, let me say that two things are big no-no's here. The first is disrespecting Harriet. The second is condoning piracy. Let that stand as explanation for why I edited the last post (though, @firstfishman, if you think I misunderstood what you said, please contact me. I kept a copy of it).

 

Now, allow me to say that I don't think e-content will be the end of the written word. Quite the contrary. I absolutely LOVE the smell of a new book (or an old one, for that matter). But this year Kindle has finally become too cool for me to ignore, and I discovered I love reading on it as well. The lighter weight, the fact that all my library travels with me wherever I go (professional literature included, and thank you Amazon.com for designing your magnifier to fit IEEE trans. 2-column format ), the speedy delivery, the fact that I can shop for books from my own home - it all amounts to one thing. It's just too good to go without. Since I've bought mine, I found myself spending 8$ for a book on a whim. I would never do that if I didn't own a Kindle. Sure, Tor would still have my business for ToM, but would I buy TWoK? Or Warbreaker, or Firstborn, for that matter? Doubtful. I bought a book by Frank Herbert's son last week, though I swore never to do it (I didn't think he could write as well as his father. Hmm, Hunters is just as good as Heretics as far as I'm concerned, if not as good as the originals).

 

Also, may I suggest that you're looking at this the wrong way? I don't mind paying 10-20$ for my books (though I don't live in the US, and you shouldn't forget that a dollar is worth more in some places than it does back in the States), but do I really have to pay USPS for my books? Don't get me wrong, I have no argument with them. I would just prefer to bypass the need to use their services.

 

One last point. I see no evidence to support the hypothesis that a legit ebook release increases the number of pirated copies out there. It's my belief that scanned pirated copies of books will pop up on the internet the day after a book's release (or the day after that, at the most) regardless of whether an ebook version is released.

 

So let me conclude on this note – please, Harriet, please let us have an ebook as soon as you can see you way clear to do so.

[firstfishman]

I am sorry. I didnt mean my last post to sound or look like I was disrespecting Harriet. What i was saying is that she is "forcing" hundreds of thousands of WoT fans' hands.

 

A dumb idea, wheather it be from Albert Einstein, Jesus, or Harriet should be called what it is. Take from that what you will...

[yoniy0]

Take from that what you will...

Oh no, we're all adults here. If you think she's being unfair to you, or unwise in general, you can say so. I have no problem with that, as long as you do so respectfully (after all, I just said that I don't agree with her decision myself, though I accept that it's hers to make). But if you opt for piracy (and obviously there's nothing anyone can do to stop you) it's probably not the best idea to say so out-front on DM. That's just a measure of respect for Team Jordan and Jason. Cool? Cool.

[Rinog]

While I get that disrespecting Harriet is a no-no, I do have to say she has done a remarkable job of alienating a rather large part of the reader base her husband developed. I live in a 2 bedroom house with a family of 4, and I already have about 400 books in the house. I bought a kindle because I just flat out don't have room for more books, and I'm the type of reader who NEVER gets rid of a book. I re-read entirely too often.

 

I can honestly say the only author who I've given more of my money to than RJ and Harriet over the years is Jim Butcher. And even then, not by much. I think I'm done giving my money to people who don't appreciate what their fan base wants. I'll continue to buy Brandon's books, his non WoT work is entertaining enough to keep me coming back, but I'm done giving Harriet my money. I'll read the last two books in the series in a B&N or Border's and pay them in coffee money. Eventually I'll buy used copies. There are other ways to finish out the series and your collection that don't involve giving her anymore of your business besides piracy.

 

The upside to all of this, seeing what she was pulling before I bought the series all over again for the Kindle.

[Elend]

A large part of what you're paying for in any hardcopy work is a competent editor. Somebody to keep the story on track and chugging along to its conclusion.

 

Self-publishing deprives both the author and the reader of the benefit that a good editor provides. That alone makes least cost/ least price electronic publishing bad for the entire literary world.

 

As jobs continue to disappear and incomes continue to decline for "average folks", price pressure will force more and more of all forms of publishing to be digital, and quality of product will decline accordingly.

 

What do you mean in the italicized portion? Why does digital publishing necessarily imply reduction in quality? I prefer holding a physical copy as much as the next person, but the actual quality of the work doesn't diminish because its been digitized.

 

If you mean that the editing, due to cost involved, will be removed that isn't a symptom of being digital. That's a symptom of trying to reduce costs- something that drives digitization as well as the hypothetical world without editors. But I find the idea of editors becoming obsolete to be far-fetched. Its pretty well understood that editing is quite important.

 

Now, self-publishing? That's another can of worms. That got us Eragon /cry and Stanek /cry harder

 

But being digital doesn't mean something was self-published, even if a physical copy may not even exist.

 

ETA: I guess my opinion on the entire delay is that its not what I'd be doing, but I guess I can understand wariness. I don't think it'll curb piracy of a series as popular as WoT, some *insert your favorite term here* will invariably get it online and torrented in the first week of release. But I can see why Harriet would be wary of such a thing and I don't resent it at all. Not like I planned on an e-book copy beyond a "What if for some reason no stores here have it" type situation.

[nophone]

greed can't be the issue. not even if it's on behalf of TOR not even if it's on behalf of harriet. It's not possible. Because e-books utilize no paper and no physical delivery system to be distributed they are much more cost effective and thus the profit margin is greater, even if the price of the book is cheaper.

 

a couple theories

 

1) does anybody know how they calculate #1 best seller on the new york times list? does it have to be a hard cover physical copy? if so they may be holding out for that.

 

2) tradition: traditionally books are released on hard cover before paper back. in this way it seems odd for a cover-less book to be released before a soft cover book.

 

3) piracy: unpreventable: these books are too popular, this will not stop piracy. some fan boy/girl will have the book up within a month of physical release, i'm certain, even if it has to be manually typed and self published.

 

4) genetic mutation: whatever good reasons may come to mind, this decision is some what infuriating for a person whom lives temporarily out side of the usa and is unwilling to build a collection of physical books that i'll have to pack and move within a year (packing and shipping is bloody expensive and unpleasant). I have to say if i had an extra chromosome i would want to use it for something like invisibility or being able to fly, instead of postponing the release of a popular novel.

[lenardo]

first post here:

 

i am disappointed in this decision..

 

for those that are saying months til a e-version is on the web?

 

ROFL

 

its ALREADY on the Web if you know where to look (i do -no i have not downloaded it).

 

on tuesday morning i was PLANNING on downloading ToM at ~12:15ish am for my nook, reading til ~2 or 3( or later), going to sleep, getting up- since its election day, go vote, take the kids to the bookstore- BUYING the hardcover- bringing kids home(they have the day off due to it being the day to vote- few years ago a kid got hit by a car @ a polling station so the town decided that whenever there is an election. no school- yay me) and then spending the day sitting on my living room couch and..reading while the kids spend the day either on the computer or playing the Wii (lego star wars, lego indiana jones, lego harry potter & about 110 other games = they stay busy)

 

only change is i skip the first part and do not stay up late on tuesday morning--well unless it becomes avail then i will be staying up late.

 

 

Len

[Kara]

I am not going to do it but - yes, I too found the pdf file for ToM available for download. Again, I am not going to support piracy, so I can't confirm if it is a valid document...but it says "Towers of Midnight Robert Jordan"...

[Luckers]

At this point I should probably interject before anyone makes the mistake of asking for a link. Whilst discussion of the concept of piracy is ok (as in the two posts above) providing or asking for links to a pirated version on Dragonmount will get you an immediate ban.

[daveq65]

While I can understand Harriet's hesitancy towards e-Books they are here to stay whether she likes it or not. But making a huge swath of us wait a year is simply unfair. With the cheap version of the Kindle coming out this year it has brought the e-Book world to a bigger market. A lot of people on the Amazon Kindle forum have declared they have moved to e-books for space reasons, and this seems fair HB and thick PB take up a lot of space.

For those who say well go and buy the HB, maybe some have health reasons they can't hold heavy HB's. I certainly no longer can.

 

I hope that this can be resolved and we don't have to wait till 2011. If this stands does this mean we'll have to wait a year extra for AMoL as well?

[waffle]

That version that is floating around the web is probably a fake

 

 

Anyways, a delay of a whole year seems too much. Delaying it for about a month would have roughly the same results. Even just a few weeks.

[lenardo]

its not a fake- at-least from the comments posted about it.

ya'll gotta remember.

 

harry potter book 7 was out on torrent files a WEEK or more before release.

 

for any author(i know she is not an author) to not release an e-book version the day a new book comes out is depriving him/her of a potentially large revenue pool.

 

Look at Baen.com they release ALL their new releases as E-books-for LESS than what the major Retailers charge as well for most e-books.

 

they have what they call webscriptions, for 15(or twelve depending on the month's releases) dollars you buy anywhere from 6-8 books for that month you buy. of which usually ~2-4 will be new releases the others are already published works.

 

lets take feb 2011 - baen has 6 books being published that month- of which 3 are new releases (one of which is a David Weber Honor Harrington Anthology book) for 15 dollars. - published DRM free in all major ebook formats(mobi.epub,rtf,microsoft reader, sony, ebookwise,html).

 

in mid November-ie in about 3 weeks) if you buy said month, you will be able to read HALF of each book (provided you do not already have the already published books in your library)

 

in mid December you will be able to read 3/4th of each book.

in mid january you will be able to read all the books.

 

for their popular author's hardcover books, Generally, they publish ARC's as well (advanced reader copy) this is the books the proofreaders/copy editors get for the review of the books- will have errors, and potentially parts in the books will get rewritten for the published version- for 15 dollars you can buy that and read that book 3-9 months (yes 9 months- that has happened once or twice, usually its 3-5 months) prior to the print version of the book coming out.

 

from the comments made by the publisher, for say- john ringo (military sci-fi/alt military earth/military umm...porn i guess you would call it- maybe miltary "romance" books (not much romance but there is sex)) and David Weber(dude writes too much other stuff) (honor harrington, Bahzell, other series (he has several tor books now too) they sell several thousand of the arcs and most of the people- including me- also buy the webscription and or the hardcover as well.

 

by the times our elementary aged kids graduate from college i'm thinking that most schools will have switched to ebooks for their text books(~15-20years).

[Elend]

Toss my hat into the ring of people who found a digital copy online already. No, I haven't downloaded it, nor do I plan on it. No one PM me asking about it, I'm not telling you. Of course it could be a fake either way so, eh, just wait til' Tuesday. Consider it an opportunity to catch up on stuff and get ahead so you can clear schedule for WoTDay.

[firstfishman]

Good thing they delayed the ebook release, it sure helped out with the piracy problem. Way to piss off thousands of people for nothing...

[Rinog]

Hopefully a large enough portion of the pissed off readers show their displeasure with their wallets. I wouldn't mind seeing the sales for this book coming in significantly under their projections. Maybe Harriet would finally get a clue.