Nakomi

[Sharaman]

I thought it was fairly clear that she was supposed to be Rand's mother?

 

Have to agree it IS Rand's Mother.

 

She disappeared after his birth, no mother was found with the Baby, the obvious place she would go would be to the Three fold land, to watch over the time when her son would become the DR.

Tam found Rand next to Tigraine's dead body on DM.

[mossman87]

I could see Amys, kinda. If we make the leap that the Wise Ones have seen their future too and know what Avi will see, we can look back and it'd make sense for the Wise Ones to tie Avi to Rand, as they'd need someone very close to Rand to make sure in the end the Aiel aren't annihilated like that future. I dunno, I could see it.

[decrepid dragon]

She really made me think of that old woman in TR that taught Egwene how to control it (Suffa or something?) back in the early books. Did we ever find out who that was, some random who knew stuff or a helping hand from the light? Wot has so much information I can't hope to keep up.

That was Lanfear, IIRC. But perhaps this is, too

ahh, ok. I really think Lanfear is like Verin, a mole in the DO's side, the way she keeps helping Rand and them

[Sharaman]

Nakomi is too sneaky for an Aiel WO. They'd just bluntly order Avi to contemplate the future of the Aiel nation as she goes to Rhuidean.

 

One set of possibilities is completely from left field

Nakomi is a Jenn Aiel, someone from the future, or a ghost. etc, and readers have no means of guessing logically and correctly.

 

Otherwise Nakomi falls into a very small class of people

She can either use portal stones and very few channelers can do that - most of them are Darkside

She is a very accomplished dreamer (from the description, the second seems likelier)

Or she can scramble Avi's sense of time (Compulsion?) and make her forget stuff.

 

Plus, she knows and understands Aiel - she is either Aiel, or somebody who knows them very well.

Of the lot that can do that, I can't see any apparent motivation for the Lightside ones including Verin, to come up with such an elaborate plan to influence Avi coupled to such apparent waffling. Darkside too, the intimate knowledge of Aiel is rather puzzling.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

I hadn't considered the passage of time due to compulsion, though I'm not sure Verin would do that knowing it would drastically decrease Avi's lifespan. On the other hand, it would answer why we have no mention of Avienda herself, even during her daughter's pov. The facts could fit for it, since she might be able to have Avi forget her departure, thus inducing the "disappearance". And it would leave the desired seeds in her, driving her to find the answer to the Aiel's future.

 

As for her being in TaR, it could be, but she would have to have the original Dream Ter'angreal as the others would have made her appear "misty".

[Sharaman]

I hadn't considered the passage of time due to compulsion, though I'm not sure Verin would do that knowing it would drastically decrease Avi's lifespan. On the other hand, it would answer why we have no mention of Avienda herself, even during her daughter's pov. The facts could fit for it, since she might be able to have Avi forget her departure, thus inducing the "disappearance". And it would leave the desired seeds in her, driving her to find the answer to the Aiel's future.

 

As for her being in TaR, it could be, but she would have to have the original Dream Ter'angreal as the others would have made her appear "misty".

 

Why would Compulsion decrease Avi's lifespan?

I'm referring to the rapid cooking of food, the sudden disappearance, the fact that Avi waits for a long time before going out to hunt for Nakomi.

This is all strange. It could be explained by TAR - in that case, N is a very accomplished dreamer. "She" invaded Avi's dreams and pulled her gently into TAR while maintaining a complete sense of reality. N may not need a ter'angreal - good dreamers and channelers entering in the flesh, don't.

It could also be explained by a gentle Compulsion that scrambled Avi's faculties slightly.

 

The "she" up there is because if "she" was a saidin channeling "he", Avi's wouldn't know about it and Compulsion etc, could be done undetected.

And in TAR a dreamer can look like anything he/ she wants.

Perrin for example, could pull this whole thing off if it occurred to him (not the knowledge of Aiel but the physical reality Avi experienced).

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'm positive it's the other way around.

 

OK, you're right.

 

From The Shadow Rising, Chapter "Beyond the Stone"

 

"In Rhuidean," Amys said, "you will find three rings, arranged so." She drew three lines in the air, joining together in the middle. "Step through any one. You will see your future laid before you, again and again, in variation. They will not guide you wholly, as is best . . ."

 

Rand was sent to the center to see his ancestor's lives. Did Aviendha go through a different ter'angeal than Rand? Or do the Wise Ones go through all their descendants lives as well? I always got the impression that the Wise Ones (as well as the Clan Chiefs) went through their ancestors lives, since they all knew the truth about the Aiel.

 

AFAIK the Chiefs only make one trip to Rhuidean and only go through the *angreal that shows their genetic past.

 

The Wise Ones make two trips. The first to show their individual future ( which confirms their Apprentice status ) and the second to show their genetic past ( to show their graduation to full Wise One ).

[JohnnyBeGood]

Nakomi is too sneaky for an Aiel WO. They'd just bluntly order Avi to contemplate the future of the Aiel nation as she goes to Rhuidean.

 

One set of possibilities is completely from left field

Nakomi is a Jenn Aiel, someone from the future, or a ghost. etc, and readers have no means of guessing logically and correctly.

 

Otherwise Nakomi falls into a very small class of people

She can either use portal stones and very few channelers can do that - most of them are Darkside

She is a very accomplished dreamer (from the description, the second seems likelier)

Or she can scramble Avi's sense of time (Compulsion?) and make her forget stuff.

 

Plus, she knows and understands Aiel - she is either Aiel, or somebody who knows them very well.

Of the lot that can do that, I can't see any apparent motivation for the Lightside ones including Verin, to come up with such an elaborate plan to influence Avi coupled to such apparent waffling. Darkside too, the intimate knowledge of Aiel is rather puzzling.

 

I believe the meeting took place in Tel'aran'rhiod and it was a "Ghost" like Brigitte. Maybe Rands Mother or Jenn Aiel.

 

I agree on the motivation part. Thats why i can´t believe that it was Verin. Why should she speak those words or even care what happens to the Aiel after the last Battle.

[Sid]

Nakomi = Hero of the Horn that decided to break the prescripts?

 

Are there any female ones mentioned other than Birgitte and Calian? Perhaps a new one added to the ranks

[Zefram]

Maybe its a ghost or a vision of Aes Sedai (the real one, who created Rhuidian long ago) or its not a vision but more of preprogrammed interactive learning hallogram left by them in one of the Ter'angreals, which would be able to learn language, clothes, history, customs, manner of speach common to Aiel Wise Ones since so many of them visited Rhuidian over the years.

 

Well, whoever she is I don't think Nakomi is a DF or a bad person. She made Aviendha think about what will happen after Rand wins which gave Aviendha a potential gleam to the future and at least a fair chance of preventing it.

 

Unless those columns were manipulated by Nakomi (there is still no guards on Rhuidian even though its totally revealed now,and what Aviendha saw was an illusion of false future and her trying to prevent it will make things worse or make it come true instead.

This makes me suspicious, perhaps Nakomi is a DF, but still I didn't get any suspicious feeling from her.

[yoniy0]

Amaryso (sp?)?

 

BTW Aviendha is trained in the Dream World, though admittedly she lacks talent for it. I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have known she's in tel'aran'rhiod.

 

Did anyone consider the possibility that she's Hoid? That dude sure gets around.

[metaphor]

I thought she was a ghost, or an apparition conjured up by some ter angreal or weave, or something connected to Tel aran riod. Maybe an aes Sedai of the age of legends, or a Jenn, or an Aiel who became Aes Sedai. Appearing out of nowhere, then disappearing suddenly? Sounds like a ghost.

 

From what happened in the columns, I believe that their final purpose was guide Aviendah. After she had seen the future she touched the columns, and they seemed dead.

The Aes Sedai and the Jenn made the columns so that the Aiel would survive and remember who they were. They had let the Aiel remember their past and keep united as a people, but that is pointless now that Rand has revealed the secret. But the Aiel aren't safe et. They have to survive the passing of an age, the chaos and the change it will bring. And Aviendah will be the one to guide them and save them.

The columns, and the apparition, served to let Aviendah understand what she must do, and what needs to be done.

[Ahaz Flagg]

Like Taim, people want to attribuite alot to Verin!! My 1st instict said Jenn, someone claims that all through verins plot lines she cared what happens to the Aeil, please prove that. Verin gains nothing by appearing to Avi, The wiseone theory after reading this makes more sense then Verin by far, and that falls short for me also. The Jenn seeing their demise does not in any way show that they all died out. I would suggest to you that no mattter the clan, the Jenn would consider all aiel, aiel.

 

The whole scene smelled of mystic, and i have read the books over and over for years, and never in all my readings did any thing suggest she cared what happend to the aiel, she cared about Rand. So break it out and prove that she cares.

[jemron]

I thought she was a ghost, or an apparition conjured up by some ter angreal or weave, or something connected to Tel aran riod. Maybe an aes Sedai of the age of legends, or a Jenn, or an Aiel who became Aes Sedai. Appearing out of nowhere, then disappearing suddenly? Sounds like a ghost.

 

From what happened in the columns, I believe that their final purpose was guide Aviendah. After she had seen the future she touched the columns, and they seemed dead.

The Aes Sedai and the Jenn made the columns so that the Aiel would survive and remember who they were. They had let the Aiel remember their past and keep united as a people, but that is pointless now that Rand has revealed the secret. But the Aiel aren't safe et. They have to survive the passing of an age, the chaos and the change it will bring. And Aviendah will be the one to guide them and save them.

The columns, and the apparition, served to let Aviendah understand what she must do, and what needs to be done.

 

Unless the ter'angreal was tampered with by Nakomi, causing what Avi saw to be a "false future" unless she follows Nakomi's advice... Though, I think it's more likely that what Avi saw is a VERY likely possibility of the future unless Avi can convince the Aiel not to be so segregatory.

[Lord_of_the_Morning]

When I first read it, I thought it was just another Aiel woman out in the Wastes, one that chose not to follow the Car'a'carn into the wetlands. The proximity to Rhuidean screams Jenn Aiel, perhaps that is why she neglected to identify Clan and Sept. Having just re-read that part I think she is Jenn Aiel, likely a Wise One. Not a darkfriend. She is clearly there trying to convince Aviendha that the Aiel should stay in the wetlands. My guess would be that the Seanchan would overwhelm the realms if the Aiel did not stay and fight. Better to stand and fight then to run back to the Three-Fold Land to wither away into dust.

[Terez]

Brandon has told several people that it wasn't Hoid, and that Hoid won't be having anything to do with WoT.

[yoniy0]

Brandon has told several people that it wasn't Hoid, and that Hoid won't be having anything to do with WoT.

Sheesh, I was joking. I actually saw that one beforehand. Was it on Twitter? I don't remember.

[nolirion]

Perhaps it is an hero of the Horn or alike ?

[Xander234]

I am guessing it was Aviendha. Finding a way to contact herself from the future after seeing how bad things are going to get

[Sharaman]

I am guessing it was Aviendha. Finding a way to contact herself from the future after seeing how bad things are going to get

The Jasper forde method. The physical descriptions are way off but that hardly matters in TAR.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

I hadn't considered the passage of time due to compulsion, though I'm not sure Verin would do that knowing it would drastically decrease Avi's lifespan. On the other hand, it would answer why we have no mention of Avienda herself, even during her daughter's pov. The facts could fit for it, since she might be able to have Avi forget her departure, thus inducing the "disappearance". And it would leave the desired seeds in her, driving her to find the answer to the Aiel's future.

 

As for her being in TaR, it could be, but she would have to have the original Dream Ter'angreal as the others would have made her appear "misty".

 

Why would Compulsion decrease Avi's lifespan?

I'm referring to the rapid cooking of food, the sudden disappearance, the fact that Avi waits for a long time before going out to hunt for Nakomi.

This is all strange. It could be explained by TAR - in that case, N is a very accomplished dreamer. "She" invaded Avi's dreams and pulled her gently into TAR while maintaining a complete sense of reality. N may not need a ter'angreal - good dreamers and channelers entering in the flesh, don't.

It could also be explained by a gentle Compulsion that scrambled Avi's faculties slightly.

 

The "she" up there is because if "she" was a saidin channeling "he", Avi's wouldn't know about it and Compulsion etc, could be done undetected.

And in TAR a dreamer can look like anything he/ she wants.

Perrin for example, could pull this whole thing off if it occurred to him (not the knowledge of Aiel but the physical reality Avi experienced).

 

I don't have my PDF's here at school, so I can't pull out a quote, but Verin thinks to herself that 'the weave itself will not harm Beldeine, but she might die as a result of it in the years to come' -paraphrased from memory.

 

I'm not exactly saying that I really think Verin was the one, I just want to. Just like my fervent hope that Moiraine had killed Asmodean, even though I was 70% sure it was Graendal (see the constructive argument I wrote for my debate class a few years back, the teacher just LOVED that ...). My heart says Verin, my mind says Amys; so I'll try my absolute hardest to prove the former while secretly listening to the arguments for the latter...

 

My opinion on the Aiel Dreamwalkers, particularly Amys, will be cast in a further light once we get our grimy claws on aMoL and can see their reactions to Avi's news. If they're all surprised and shocked, it may not have been them; if they're stoic and accepting, the possibility is improved and slightly reinforced.

[sean_powell08]

I refrained for about a few days because I didn't want to join another forum but I've been reading this discussion since I finished the book.

 

If she was in TAR, wouldnt there be the unseen eyes and the light from nowhere? I honestly cant remember if she did anytime in TAR previously, but if either way the eyes should have been mentioned. Either as something out of place, or something out of place that she is familiar with. I also think Verin doesnt fit just from the line paraphrased by "I'm not far from home. Perhaps its far from me"

 

Personally I think it must be the Jenn. The Jenn Aiel were the true Aiel so why would they need to mention clan or sept? They are simply Aiel. They never mention how big the pack is but perhaps a chora sprout, the buds from avendesora, was inside. It would also explain the not far from home but her home far away. A ter'angreal using portal stones or something. It just seems the most logical. I would really hate for it not to be resolved in the next book.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

If memory serves, there is mention (from Avi's pov I think) of her spending some time in TAR, but she needed help from one of the Wise Ones to get in, and it was mostly a "this is what it is like" experience than anything else.

[TigerGamer]

If this were a game of Clue I would vote: Amys, in Tel'aran'rhiod, with a "Mask of Mirrors". Lots of hinting. Avi leans back and closes her eyes. Out here on the route Amys tells her to take. Nakomi is not dressed like a Wise One "but there was something about her". "Where had all those coals come from?" Nakomi pulls a lot of stuff for cooking out of that pack. "I am far from my roof, yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me". Nakomi just happens to make food that reminds Avi of her Mom. Food that cooks too fast. Disappearing instantly. All her stuff disappearing instantly. Hinting to Avi that the Aiel need to adapt, like The Dreamwalkers did before she left. "By breaking oath to do no violence, our people have gained much toh". 'We came to three fold land to meet toh, why come back here just to be made harder after toh paid by following the Car'a'carn'. Sounds like they know she will see the future and and what it will be and are psyching her up not to let it crush her spirit.

Not that I like this future, but it will not surprise me if it is true. A Remnant will adapt. Those who stubbornly hang on to tradition, parish.

 

 

This is the best argument yet.

 

The Verin argument? Not so much.

 

And Terez, whoa, step down. 20 years of people doing this.

[nogoodatnames]

My first instinct was Jenn Aiel, however I think it's Rand. I'm not sure if he's been mentioned before, only skimmed the previous pages.

 

There's a bit when he first returns to min an says something like he had to help, or has to help a Friend. (don't have my copy with me at the moment). Now I thought he was refering to Rodal, or maybe Lan. Perhaps however he meant Avi.