Discuss The Full Book

[Boundless]

Just finished the book about 15 minutes ago. First post on this site..been following all of the theories for a while though..you guys are a looootttt better at picking up on things than I am haha.

 

Just gunna drop my reactions/ideas here

 

1) seriously..i cried a little when Tam and Rand meet again at the end of chapter 13...probably one of my new favorite moments.

2) Even though i knew it was coming..mat's eye scene tore me up! That was some excellent reading..

3) I really feel like Damondred is Taim. I could be way wrong and you guys probably know more than I am..but I HATE Taim. It would make me feel a lot better knowing he's a Forsaken.

4) Aviendha's scenes were really annoying for me..not beacuse of the content..but they threw off the flow of the story for me. I understand why they are there..but man..it really irked me reading those.

5) Do you think a Forsaken/DF planted that needle for Elayne..if it wasn't meant for Rand(which I don't believe)? I doubt it was a noble or lord.

6) I think that Nynaeve and Lan being linked will lead to an interesting chapter. Rand said he had to ride to meet a friend (which im assssuming is Lan) and i feel like Nynaeve will tip Rand off as to when Lan actually starts his 'final' battle with the shadow.

 

Again. HUGE fan of this site, and obviously the series. Can't wait to be involved (and schooled) in more discussions with all of you!

[Elend]

^

 

Demandred is not Taim. There are several problems with the theory but suffice to say RJ has confirmed that, indeed, Taim is not Demandred. Moridin remains a possibility, though.

 

Welcome to Dragonmount, Boundless. Love the handle.

[Boundless]

^

 

Demandred is not Taim. There are several problems with the theory but suffice to say RJ has confirmed that, indeed, Taim is not Demandred. Moridin remains a possibility, though.

 

Welcome to Dragonmount, Boundless. Love the handle.

 

Thank you for the warm greeting.

As i mentioned I assumed you all knew more than I did on the whole 'who Taim REALLY is'. Thank you for letting me in. I'd be satisfied seeing Taim as Moridin as well..just as long as he IS a Forsaken..i hate his character so much.

[FarShainMael]

And maybe Narishma would lead the world after Rand, effectively becoming the 'One who follows after'.

Any theories on Rand's other two questions to the AelFinn?

And is there no mention of Fain in ToM except the Prologue?

Rand's questions (and his responses to the answers):

Q1. Something like "How can I fight the last battle and live"

A1. "To live, you must die" (mentioned countless times)

He beats himself up over this for 9 books now.

 

 

Q2. Something like "what now?"

A2. "The north and the east must be as one. The south and the west must be as one" (mentioned in TGS, iirc)

He took this to mean "build an empire," which he did. He went for Cairhien and tried very hard to exert complete control. He entered Andor (center of the map) just to kill Rahvin, as well as Sammael in Illian. In TGS, he began taking it literally, cutting the map in two, giving the Seanchan the Southwest, and keeping the Northeast for himself.

 

Q3. Something like "How can I cleanse Saidin?"

A3. Not directly stated in the books, but they gave a description of the cleansing, which Rand did. (sometime before LOC, since he discussed the theory with Herid Fel)

Straightforward. He got instructions on how to do it, and did it.

EncWoT gives two questions:

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/aelfinn.html

 

"One question was how to cleanse saidin.

•The answer was a riddle that Herid Fel says "stated sound principles in both high philosophy and natural philosophy."

 

•"How can I win the Last Battle and survive?"

•"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

•The third question and answer are unknown. The Aelfinn did not mention Rhuidean to him. "

 

"The two must be as one." Is this Andor and Cairhien (see later chapters, around Ch55)?

[lilinbilly]

I'm new please bear with me. Does anyone else think that perrin is going to help forge the new seals for the dark one? The chapter where he makes the hammer made me think this. Rand has to make new seals right? Also, the dark prophecies kind of hint that perrin will be a major part of things. Maybe the prophecies are only what each side wants to happen. If perrin and rand fail then the dark one will be free, but if when they don't the light will prevail. The series will have a "good" ending where everything is hunky dorey for a while. Dont hate me im a optimist.

[FarShainMael]

I dopn't think Rand will even attempt to repatch the Bore; that was only ever going to be a stopgap anyway, as he knew when he was LTT. I think he will try to heal the breach in the Pattern that is the Bore.

 

IMO, the Power-forging of the hammer is a straight take on Thor's hammer Mjollnir (which is also sometimes represented as an axe!):

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mj%C3%B6llnir

 

"The Prose Edda gives a summary of Mjöllnir's special qualities in that, with Mjöllnir, Thor:

 

... would be able to strike as firmly as he wanted, whatever his aim, and the hammer would never fail, and if he threw it at something, it would never miss and never fly so far from his hand that it would not find its way back, and when he wanted, it would be so small that it could be carried inside his tunic."

[Astus]

It was nice to have a couple of things turn out as anticipated in regards to Graendal killing Asmodean and Mesaana being Danelle.

I was surprised to see things going well for the most part, with resolutions all around. Set a nice tone. Of course, that was before the last few chapters. And that's when the worries returned, haha.

[wheel]

The letter that Tiana passed onto Rand might be from Verin, alerting him about the Caemlyn attack. So maybe the attack would be averted, but the fire and lights are there because they'll die at a distance from the Waygate

[wheel]

That's how he set the ward I think...

[nwash_10]

And maybe Narishma would lead the world after Rand, effectively becoming the 'One who follows after'.

Any theories on Rand's other two questions to the AelFinn?

And is there no mention of Fain in ToM except the Prologue?

Rand's questions (and his responses to the answers):

Q1. Something like "How can I fight the last battle and live"

A1. "To live, you must die" (mentioned countless times)

He beats himself up over this for 9 books now.

 

 

Q2. Something like "what now?"

A2. "The north and the east must be as one. The south and the west must be as one" (mentioned in TGS, iirc)

He took this to mean "build an empire," which he did. He went for Cairhien and tried very hard to exert complete control. He entered Andor (center of the map) just to kill Rahvin, as well as Sammael in Illian. In TGS, he began taking it literally, cutting the map in two, giving the Seanchan the Southwest, and keeping the Northeast for himself.

 

Q3. Something like "How can I cleanse Saidin?"

A3. Not directly stated in the books, but they gave a description of the cleansing, which Rand did. (sometime before LOC, since he discussed the theory with Herid Fel)

Straightforward. He got instructions on how to do it, and did it.

EncWoT gives two questions:

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/aelfinn.html

 

"One question was how to cleanse saidin.

•The answer was a riddle that Herid Fel says "stated sound principles in both high philosophy and natural philosophy."

 

•"How can I win the Last Battle and survive?"

•"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

•The third question and answer are unknown. The Aelfinn did not mention Rhuidean to him. "

 

"The two must be as one." Is this Andor and Cairhien (see later chapters, around Ch55)?

 

Rand + Lew Therin

[aunt_pol]

I just wanted to throw my two cents worth in to this MoriTaim ideer. To be honest, it just smells fishy to me. For the main part, I see a basic problem of temperament. Taim seems to be a ball of tightly wound fury most of the time, and even worse around Rand. Perrin smelled it on him at Dumai's Wells too, iirc. But Moridin is able to sit and have cost fireside chats with Rand. It seems like Moridin has moved on from being so emotional about it, I think.

Got nothin else, but just seems unlikely to me.

 

Oh, and where the bloody blue blazes was Demandred hiding for the whole damn book??! 800+ pages and he couldn't be shoehorned in there at all? He is really gonna have to live up to himself next book.

[Guest EllingWatterud]

What happend to Alivia in this book? She wasn`t mention at all.

[Astus]

Oh, and where the bloody blue blazes was Demandred hiding for the whole damn book??! 800+ pages and he couldn't be shoehorned in there at all? He is really gonna have to live up to himself next book.

I have a sinking feeling that his demise will ultimately be underwhelming. As in he reveals himself grandly then gets offed in a manner similar to Be'lal while in the midst of a monologue

Honestly though, sfter all the build up and sneaky stuff, I'm hoping for something big.

[nolirion]

The title of the book make me wonder " Tower of Midnight" but there is but one chapter with Fortunoa perspective and the Aviendha vision .

Where are The Seanchan and why those "tower of Midnight " consume The Broken Wolf ? I thought it must be Hopper but this is shadowy shadow profecy

[Moon Sedai]

I dopn't think Rand will even attempt to repatch the Bore; that was only ever going to be a stopgap anyway, as he knew when he was LTT. I think he will try to heal the breach in the Pattern that is the Bore.

 

IMO, the Power-forging of the hammer is a straight take on Thor's hammer Mjollnir (which is also sometimes represented as an axe!):

 

http://en.wikipedia....i/Mj%C3%B6llnir

 

"The Prose Edda gives a summary of Mjöllnir's special qualities in that, with Mjöllnir, Thor:

 

... would be able to strike as firmly as he wanted, whatever his aim, and the hammer would never fail, and if he threw it at something, it would never miss and never fly so far from his hand that it would not find its way back, and when he wanted, it would be so small that it could be carried inside his tunic."

 

I thought the same thing!

 

 

[wheel]

FORETELLING - Perrin's role will be to fight the Dark Hounds and other beasts at the Last Battle. While winning that battle he realises that one of the Dark Hounds is Hopper. He can't bring himself to kill Hopper and gets killed by him.

 

I hope he doesn't die, but I bet this'll happen.

[Hael Me]

Not sure whether this is te right place to post this but hey ho.

 

I've seen a few people commenting about the red veiled people in the epilogue. I think we all need to look at what Barriga actually thinks as one kills him "These weren't Aiel. They were something else." that combined with the dark eyes part leads me towards thinking they are not Aiel, especially not male channelers as

 

1. They have spears and kill with a knife.

2. Heeth Tower is smoking but still standing, and from the prologue we know that it would have been easier to knock the thing down rather than assault it.

 

Another point about these people is that they are wearing red,(and we all know how important colour is in the WoT series). If we refer back to chapter one and the burning of ships at Takisrom, the attacking vessels have red painted sails. I think this ties the two invading / attacking forces together (hence why they are mentioned at the beginning and end of the book). And also, to me, this is screaming Demandred. We know he has martialed his armies from the last meeting of the Forsaken, whether they are Mirror World or Sharan I'm not sure.

 

After the reveltions about the strenght of the DO's forces and Fain's zombie trollocs I am sooo excited about aMoL!

 

Good, valid points and I think you're right! There's no evidence that these people, wearing red veils, were Aiel or channelers. On the contrary: the man's actions and appearance hinted that he wasn't one or the other: channelers seldom reach for their knives, Aiel doesn't have dark eyes or wear bright colours.

 

My guess is that they're from Shara. In tFoH, I think it was, Rhuarc mentioned that there was fighting in Shara, a land with strange customs that we don't know much about. Maybe their soldiers have filed teeth?! I think the civil war there was just Demandred securing his hold on that nation. He's been ready a while now, gathering for war. I think he just attacked both the Seanchan main continent and Randland, in a bold two-pronged assault. Ships with red sails will soon arrive along the coasts of Randland and fierce warriors clad in red will emerge from the Blight or from Gateways or whatever. This is my Foretelling!

[A2597]

OK, so there is a dreamspike at the Black Tower. It will be found and taken to Tar'Valen, preventing traveling from working there, thus preventing the seanchan attack.

 

That's my thought. :D

 

Also need to say, I was right about rand. Total Badass now.

[FarShainMael]

I dopn't think Rand will even attempt to repatch the Bore; that was only ever going to be a stopgap anyway, as he knew when he was LTT. I think he will try to heal the breach in the Pattern that is the Bore.

 

IMO, the Power-forging of the hammer is a straight take on Thor's hammer Mjollnir (which is also sometimes represented as an axe!):

 

http://en.wikipedia....i/Mj%C3%B6llnir

 

"The Prose Edda gives a summary of Mjöllnir's special qualities in that, with Mjöllnir, Thor:

 

... would be able to strike as firmly as he wanted, whatever his aim, and the hammer would never fail, and if he threw it at something, it would never miss and never fly so far from his hand that it would not find its way back, and when he wanted, it would be so small that it could be carried inside his tunic."

 

I thought the same thing!

 

Great minds! As soon as I read the name he gave that hammer, I thought; Yeaaaah!!

[PaulChauvet]

OK, so there is a dreamspike at the Black Tower. It will be found and taken to Tar'Valen, preventing traveling from working there, thus preventing the seanchan attack.

 

That's my thought. :D

 

Also need to say, I was right about rand. Total Badass now.

 

That was really my thought as well. Egwene in TAR will be the one that gets it once she finds out about it from Perrin.

[Maji]

Oh, and where the bloody blue blazes was Demandred hiding for the whole damn book??! 800+ pages and he couldn't be shoehorned in there at all? He is really gonna have to live up to himself next book.

I have a sinking feeling that his demise will ultimately be underwhelming. As in he reveals himself grandly then gets offed in a manner similar to Be'lal while in the midst of a monologue

Honestly though, sfter all the build up and sneaky stuff, I'm hoping for something big.

 

 

I have the same thoughts on Demandred. I'm hoping that Mat (or Perrin, I guess) takes out a Forsaken. I know Demandred really hates Rand/LTT but I cannot see them battling it out or at least to the extent where one of them trumps the other. I'm thinking they'll have a skirmish and then Rand will go off to fight the DO while someone else takes out Demandred, Mat would be an excellent candidate with the foxhead and all. Or maybe we'll get to see Moraine blew some people to hell :3

[Lynander]

Awesome. Just awesome.

The beginning was a little boring but picks up around when Perrin first sees the dome. The best section was Mat, Noal, and Thom saving Moiraine. I'm glad it was done all at once instead of jumping back and forth like most of the other chapters.

 

2 questions though

 

Was Lanfear really looking for Rand's help or was that another of her tricks?

Did SH kill Graendal?

[Tom Sawyer]

 

Was Lanfear really looking for Rand's help or was that another of her tricks?

Did SH kill Graendal?

 

I hope it was one of Lanfear's tricks. She's cool as the psycho freak and it would suck badly if they ruined her character with some sort of redemption. She's got to do something, though, because her resurrection has so far been even more pointless than the other resurrections.

 

I think Graendal was just punished like Moghidien and Mesanna were and I don't think we've seen the last of her. She was talking about doing something with Tuon, so I expect she'll show up in the Seanchan arc in the next book and maybe Mat will finally get himself a Forsaken kill.

[knitmamaknit]

 

Was Lanfear really looking for Rand's help or was that another of her tricks?

Did SH kill Graendal?

 

I hope it was one of Lanfear's tricks. She's cool as the psycho freak and it would suck badly if they ruined her character with some sort of redemption. She's got to do something, though, because her resurrection has so far been even more pointless than the other resurrections.

 

I think Graendal was just punished like Moghidien and Mesanna were and I don't think we've seen the last of her. She was talking about doing something with Tuon, so I expect she'll show up in the Seanchan arc in the next book and maybe Mat will finally get himself a Forsaken kill.

 

Well I posted this over at Theoryland so I may as well throw it in here in regards to the dream and Lanfear's purpose...

 

 

Brandon had made a quote that there would be consequences of Rand using the TP in TGS. This makes me wonder. Could the fact that Lanfear touches his dream/he touches hers be one of those consequences?

 

Also, I have a weird, wacky out-of-left-field theory that this link with Moridin might not just let him access the TP but also possibly free Lanfear from the mindtrap. Wacky, like I said but it would pave the way for her to give him more details on the drilling of the Bore. That in turn may be just what he needs to fully flesh out how he needs to repair it.

 

The other possibility is that he can locate her due to the link and the mindtrap and offer her a balefire death (DO can't get to her) in exchange for the information on how she drilled the Bore.

 

I don't think we saw any other consequences in regard to the TP in this book.

[mininboots]

Any thoughts on how Alana got out of the Stone? It seems likely she received a letter from Verin and left to follow its instructions, but the AS with Rand are explicit that no saidar-woven gateway was used. Did an Ashaman come fetch her somehow? Other ideas? A ter'angreal of some sort?