Discuss The Full Book

[jdbond]

It's the worst kind of compulsion since both of them have fought shadow spawns tooth and nail at every turn.

[jdbond]

So, does Nynaeve decide to take the AS test on her own? Is this spurred on by the way AS in the Tower treat her or is there another reason? I heard she massively uses Balefire to save "Lan" in the final test. Is that true? Seems like the point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire.

 

 

So they lifted ban on balefire in WT?

[TSignus]

So, does Nynaeve decide to take the AS test on her own? Is this spurred on by the way AS in the Tower treat her or is there another reason? I heard she massively uses Balefire to save "Lan" in the final test. Is that true? Seems like the point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire.

 

Egwene's main concern is that she wants Nynaeve to swear the oaths, because she doesn't want any Aes Sedai going around without the oaths. Nynaeve then says that she already knows all the weaves for the test (remember, Daigian was teaching them to her), and will take it.

[Elend]

 

As for you people who are talking about the Oath Rod, here is my very simple theory.

 

I think Mesaana would be insulted if you called her Black Ajah or a Darkfriend. She is one of the Chosen, far beyond any of them in rank and power. She can truthfully say she is not Black Ajah or a Darkfriend because she is not. She is a Chosen.

 

That's roughly how I saw it.

[TSignus]

So, does Nynaeve decide to take the AS test on her own? Is this spurred on by the way AS in the Tower treat her or is there another reason? I heard she massively uses Balefire to save "Lan" in the final test. Is that true? Seems like the point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire.

 

 

So they lifted ban on balefire in WT?

 

No, she uses it inside her test. I think when he said the "point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire" he meant it from a meta author's perspective, not that it was the Aes Sedai's goal in having her take the test.

[jdbond]

So, does Nynaeve decide to take the AS test on her own? Is this spurred on by the way AS in the Tower treat her or is there another reason? I heard she massively uses Balefire to save "Lan" in the final test. Is that true? Seems like the point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire.

 

Egwene's main concern is that she wants Nynaeve to swear the oaths, because she doesn't want any Aes Sedai going around without the oaths. Nynaeve then says that she already knows all the weaves for the test (remember, Daigian was teaching them to her), and will take it.

 

 

Oh, so she doesn't even trust Nynaeve?

[jdbond]

So, does Nynaeve decide to take the AS test on her own? Is this spurred on by the way AS in the Tower treat her or is there another reason? I heard she massively uses Balefire to save "Lan" in the final test. Is that true? Seems like the point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire.

 

 

So they lifted ban on balefire in WT?

 

No, she uses it inside her test. I think when he said the "point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire" he meant it from a meta author's perspective, not that it was the Aes Sedai's goal in having her take the test.

 

 

Ah cool..So did they "punish" her for using balefire? MON with her "stick"...

[TSignus]

 

As for you people who are talking about the Oath Rod, here is my very simple theory.

 

I think Mesaana would be insulted if you called her Black Ajah or a Darkfriend. She is one of the Chosen, far beyond any of them in rank and power. She can truthfully say she is not Black Ajah or a Darkfriend because she is not. She is a Chosen.

 

That's roughly how I saw it.

 

It might have been a word game like that, but Egwene's black ajah hunters came up with three simple solutions in the book for how she could have avoided it, including a simple weave that would have made everyone think they were hearing something other than what they were. For example, you could say "I swear I'll lie whenever I feel like it" and everyone around you will hear it as "I swear to speak no word that is not true." Tied off and inverted, they'd never have detected it.

 

The other two solutions involved either putting someone under heavy compulsion and a mask of mirrors and sending them to do the test or having a second rod to unbind the oaths hidden somehow (possibly with an inverted weave) in your other hand to unbind your oaths while you were saying them.

[TSignus]

So, does Nynaeve decide to take the AS test on her own? Is this spurred on by the way AS in the Tower treat her or is there another reason? I heard she massively uses Balefire to save "Lan" in the final test. Is that true? Seems like the point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire.

 

Egwene's main concern is that she wants Nynaeve to swear the oaths, because she doesn't want any Aes Sedai going around without the oaths. Nynaeve then says that she already knows all the weaves for the test (remember, Daigian was teaching them to her), and will take it.

 

 

Oh, so she doesn't even trust Nynaeve?

 

It's not an issue of trusting Nynaeve or not. It's a matter of if Egwene allows her to be Aes Sedai without swearing the oaths, other sisters will start to demand they be freed of oaths as well. It's avoiding the perception of special treatment.

[jdbond]

So, does Nynaeve decide to take the AS test on her own? Is this spurred on by the way AS in the Tower treat her or is there another reason? I heard she massively uses Balefire to save "Lan" in the final test. Is that true? Seems like the point of the test may have been to let her get access to her repressed memory of how to weave Balefire.

 

Egwene's main concern is that she wants Nynaeve to swear the oaths, because she doesn't want any Aes Sedai going around without the oaths. Nynaeve then says that she already knows all the weaves for the test (remember, Daigian was teaching them to her), and will take it.

 

 

Oh, so she doesn't even trust Nynaeve?

 

 

It's not an issue of trusting Nynaeve or not. It's a matter of if Egwene allows her to be Aes Sedai without swearing the oaths, other sisters will start to demand they be freed of oaths as well. It's avoiding the perception of special treatment.

 

 

So Cadsuane and her fan club followed Nyn? And wasn't Nyn busy, helping Dragon. Sounds like weird time to set examples. And was Nyn allowed to go back once she took the oath?

[Caveatar]

Thanks to all who posted this information.

I don't know about "Easing the Badger" but you have eased my twitching. :D

I may last until I get the book now.

[KefkaPalazzo]

 

As for you people who are talking about the Oath Rod, here is my very simple theory.

 

I think Mesaana would be insulted if you called her Black Ajah or a Darkfriend. She is one of the Chosen, far beyond any of them in rank and power. She can truthfully say she is not Black Ajah or a Darkfriend because she is not. She is a Chosen.

 

That's roughly how I saw it.

 

I seem to recall Brandon saying that the Forsaken DO consider themselves DF's. There was a thread on here shortly after the release of TGS. As far as Black Ajah, they certainly do not. I need to find it again, but there's a passage that says the BA is an organization that Ishamael formed during one of his free periods, while the other Forsaken were bound. They never got the chance to join, so they can honestly say they are not BA, as long as they say something VERY close to the phrase "I am not Black Ajah."

 

Although, having an oath against lying as a Forsaken seems like a very bad idea. I'd think she got the oath removed later, but I think access to the OR is not as easy as the Hunters made it out to be. It just doesn't make sense allowing unrestricted access to the Ter'angreal that has such potential for abuse. Such potential that even the Hunters were unable to resist.

 

I think that there is a way to beat the OR completely, as in render it completely useless. If anyone would know the way to do it, it's Mesaana. Remember that she turned because she was rejected for a research position at some university. She wasn't banned from doing "research" on her own.

[Elend]

 

As for you people who are talking about the Oath Rod, here is my very simple theory.

 

I think Mesaana would be insulted if you called her Black Ajah or a Darkfriend. She is one of the Chosen, far beyond any of them in rank and power. She can truthfully say she is not Black Ajah or a Darkfriend because she is not. She is a Chosen.

 

That's roughly how I saw it.

 

I seem to recall Brandon saying that the Forsaken DO consider themselves DF's. As far as Black Ajah, they certainly do not. I need to find it again, but there's a passage that says the BA is an organization that Ishamael formed during one of his free periods, while the other Forsaken were bound. They never got the chance to join, so they can honestly say they are not BA, as long as they say something VERY close to the phrase "I am not Black Ajah."

 

Although, having an oath against lying as a Forsaken seems like a very bad idea. I'd think she got the oath removed later, but I think access to the OR is not as easy as the Hunters made it out to be. It just doesn't make sense allowing unrestricted access to the Ter'angreal that has such potential for abuse. Such potential that even the Hunters were unable to resist.

 

I'm almost certain Lanfear suggested the exact opposite in The Great Hunt, though. Something about Darkfriends being fools. I'm not sure, I don't have my TGH copy here. But I recall disdain for them, like she considered herself above them.

[raydurz]

So something happens with Olver...is he a darkfriend? Does he die? Get trampled by a horse? One of the Chosen in disguise?

[Elend]

So something happens with Olver...is he a darkfriend? Does he die? Get trampled by a horse? One of the Chosen in disguise?

 

Olvendred lives!

[Terez]

I am curious from those who have read the book what they feel about the writing itself, both in comparison to TGS and to the first eleven. ... Not plotlines or story ... the actual writing itself from a technical/prose/flow aspect.

I commented about this in my thread on the pre-release forum, and I linked it in my review.

[Terez]

So something happens with Olver...is he a darkfriend? Does he die? Get trampled by a horse? One of the Chosen in disguise?

You might say he is the victim of a very, very horrible mistake on the part of at least two distinct people.

[Isabel]

So something happens with Olver...is he a darkfriend? Does he die? Get trampled by a horse? One of the Chosen in disguise?

You might say he is the victim of a very, very horrible mistake on the part of at least two distinct people.

 

I was thinking if Mat actually made the wrong choice ;)

[Diederichos]

Perrin and Rand seem to have finished their character development/maturing/going where the Wheel needs them to be(to steal from an earlier poster). Does the same seem to have happened with Mat or does he seem...'unfinished'.

 

Bumps just in case someone has an opinion of this.

[Caveatar]

Mat's luck can't be so bad that Olver dies dammit.

All the bosoms Olver hasn't yet.....NM

[Terez]

So something happens with Olver...is he a darkfriend? Does he die? Get trampled by a horse? One of the Chosen in disguise?

You might say he is the victim of a very, very horrible mistake on the part of at least two distinct people.

 

I was thinking if Mat actually made the wrong choice ;)

He certainly did. He should have taken Valan Luca with him into Ghenjei, obviously.

 

Perrin and Rand seem to have finished their character development/maturing/going where the Wheel needs them to be(to steal from an earlier poster). Does the same seem to have happened with Mat or does he seem...'unfinished'.

 

Bumps just in case someone has an opinion of this.

Mat's role...I think we get a really clear view of it in this book. It's exciting. We knew he was important, but i"m not sure if we realized how important he is.

[The Fisher King]

I have to agree with Jason's description as ''Tragic'' concerning the truth about Olver revealed in this book:

 

 

S P O I L E R Below:

 

 

 

 

... I was shocked to find out that the original Olver had actually been killed in the Seanchan invasion of Ebou Dar 7 books ago and ever since it has been Bela using a Mask of Mirrors to impersonate the little tyke!!!

 

 

 

Fish

[fionwe1987]

Oh, so she doesn't even trust Nynaeve?

By your line of logic, she doesn't even trust herself. Then who can blame her for not trusting anyone else?

[Guest mmcginnis]

The big un-noticed thing...

 

Seems to me that it is the fate of the male Aiel channelers. Nearly the very end of the book. We find out what happenned to them. How long have the Aiel been sending men who can channel to the Blight to die? A long time. It seems we are supposed to infer that these men have not been dying, but being turned to the Shadow. That's A LOT of male channelers who have been learning for a LONG time... Presto - instant force of Dreadlords.

[fionwe1987]

Egwene's main concern is that she wants Nynaeve to swear the oaths, because she doesn't want any Aes Sedai going around without the oaths. Nynaeve then says that she already knows all the weaves for the test (remember, Daigian was teaching them to her), and will take it.

I guess Egwene didn't just name her AS again since the test was readily available to be taken?

 

Also... do the AS who administer the test to her (who the hell were they?) also see the Balefire weave? How does everyone in the Tower react to Nynaeve knowing the weave? And who puts Lan in the test? Does everyone know they are married now? And how does Nyn manage to keep a straight face with Lan in danger?