Moiraine, Leigh and Jason

[Tenesmus]

I know for sure there have been discussions about this so what is the most solid theory on why moraine is alive when lanfear died and had to be brought back as cyndane by DO?

 

Dont't know the official theories, but my thoughts on the matter are that Lanfear went batshit crazy with rage and acted even worse than Mat when she passed through the doorframe, and just started making demands to the finn people. She got whatever she asked for, and was killed for it in the bargain.

 

Moiraine, otoh, traded her freedom for zapping Asmo

[masty]

Logically it makes sense but still there are some lingering questions like when Rand made sword from saidin the Finn were afraid of that so since Lanfear can channel shouldn't they be afraid of her too? Also if it is forbidden to even ask questions about shadow or last battle wouldnt they be scared to death of a forsaken?

[Naffy]

Logically it makes sense but still there are some lingering questions like when Rand made sword from saidin the Finn were afraid of that so since Lanfear can channel shouldn't they be afraid of her too? Also if it is forbidden to even ask questions about shadow or last battle wouldnt they be scared to death of a forsaken?

YOu are right and I think this is why it is highly likely that Lanfear (and maybe Moiraine) was severed going through the doorway.

[masty]

Logically it makes sense but still there are some lingering questions like when Rand made sword from saidin the Finn were afraid of that so since Lanfear can channel shouldn't they be afraid of her too? Also if it is forbidden to even ask questions about shadow or last battle wouldnt they be scared to death of a forsaken?

YOu are right and I think this is why it is highly likely that Lanfear (and maybe Moiraine) was severed going through the doorway.

Hmmm yeah it would even explain cyndane's reduced chanelling powers but why would they be severed rand moraine and countless number of other channelers have been using the ter'angreal for a long time why in this case? I will be little disappointed if there is no moraine pov to explain what happened when they passed thru the twisted doorway

[Tenesmus]

Logically it makes sense but still there are some lingering questions like when Rand made sword from saidin the Finn were afraid of that so since Lanfear can channel shouldn't they be afraid of her too? Also if it is forbidden to even ask questions about shadow or last battle wouldnt they be scared to death of a forsaken?

YOu are right and I think this is why it is highly likely that Lanfear (and maybe Moiraine) was severed going through the doorway.

Hmmm yeah it would even explain cyndane's reduced chanelling powers but why would they be severed rand moraine and countless number of other channelers have been using the ter'angreal for a long time why in this case? I will be little disappointed if there is no moraine pov to explain what happened when they passed thru the twisted doorway

I think it had to do with Moiraine's wishes.

 

I think that perhaps Moiraine was able to still Lanfear inside and then Lanfear wished herself healed, and she was healed, by saidar. Then the finns kill her and she gets reborn with the lower ability.

[Naffy]

Logically it makes sense but still there are some lingering questions like when Rand made sword from saidin the Finn were afraid of that so since Lanfear can channel shouldn't they be afraid of her too? Also if it is forbidden to even ask questions about shadow or last battle wouldnt they be scared to death of a forsaken?

YOu are right and I think this is why it is highly likely that Lanfear (and maybe Moiraine) was severed going through the doorway.

Hmmm yeah it would even explain cyndane's reduced chanelling powers but why would they be severed rand moraine and countless number of other channelers have been using the ter'angreal for a long time why in this case? I will be little disappointed if there is no moraine pov to explain what happened when they passed thru the twisted doorway

I thought that maybe because of the amount of Saidar she was pulling through the angreal when she went through. Maybe there was a ter'angreal/angreal resonance? If she didn't get stilled when she went through I would assume that she would have just killed Moiraine once they hit the other side.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Logically it makes sense but still there are some lingering questions like when Rand made sword from saidin the Finn were afraid of that so since Lanfear can channel shouldn't they be afraid of her too? Also if it is forbidden to even ask questions about shadow or last battle wouldnt they be scared to death of a forsaken?

YOu are right and I think this is why it is highly likely that Lanfear (and maybe Moiraine) was severed going through the doorway.

 

One thing. The Finns were not afraid of Rand. They were afraid of the fire.

 

"Fire to blind."

 

They shied away from the light.

 

So unless lanfear knows this (which she might, but its moot) they wouldnt just be afraid of her.

[haloun]

I'm still waiting for word of Perrins physical mutilation. He's gotten off pretty easy so far in that department. Horrible as she is, I don't think Faile counts.

Not that Mat has actually had his already, but it's strongly enough implied to make it almost certain.

perrin has a scar running down his face.

[Beren]

I know for sure there have been discussions about this so what is the most solid theory on why moraine is alive when lanfear died and had to be brought back as cyndane by DO?

 

Here is my question since it's been a while since I took part in discussions on here. Did we ever have it specifically confirmed that Cyndane is Lanfear?

 

If this has not been absolutely confirmed I have a crazy theory about this whole thing.

 

 

Also, I think Mat's ashandarei has some tie in to this part of the book. It was the one thing given to him that he did not ask for.

[Terez]

Moiraine might have killed Lanfear. Also, Moiraine is being used as bait to get Mat to come back.

[Duskfire]

Here is my question since it's been a while since I took part in discussions on here. Did we ever have it specifically confirmed that Cyndane is Lanfear?

 

If this has not been absolutely confirmed I have a crazy theory about this whole thing.

 

There have been many crazy theories :P The main problem being that there isn't many strong female channelers who work for the Shadow, want Rand, and were held by the Finns.

[GB]

Moiraine might have killed Lanfear. Also, Moiraine is being used as bait to get Mat to come back.

hey terez

 

so i am doing a reread of KoD where Mat works out that the Finns must get something out of this and has to have some sort of link with the people coming in.

 

why would they want mat back if they want to have an experience of the world,wouldnt mat being outside be better? i am not sure but when rand, moiraine, and mat goes through the one in Tear, didnt she say the finn go through a person's memory and she felt a bit slick or needed a bath or something?

[Beren]

Ok. Here's my take on the ashandarei.

 

He asks:

1) for memories filled

2) for a way to be free of Aes Sedai

3) AND the Power

4) to be sent back to Rhuidean

 

Note that wish number 2 was a two part wish. The medallion fits the Aes Sedai. The ashandarei tells how to be free of the Power.

 

"Thus is our treaty written. Thus is agreement made. Thought is the arrow of time. Memory never fades. What is asked is given. The price is paid."

 

The important part is "thought is the arrow of time." I believe that they are telling him that, to be free of the power, time must become linear rather than circular. The Wheel of Time must be broken.

 

Also, he does not specify what "Power" he wants to be free of. There are both the One Power and the True Power so it is also possible that ashandarei works in a similar manner as the medallion, but towards the True Power. That could make things interesting come TG.

[Naffy]

Moiraine might have killed Lanfear. Also, Moiraine is being used as bait to get Mat to come back.

I just re-read the part where Moiraine pushes them through the doorway. It specifically states that Moiraine gets the angreal from Lanfear. Therefore I think it is highly likely that Moiraine killed Lanfear once they entered Finnland.

[Beren]

Here is my question since it's been a while since I took part in discussions on here. Did we ever have it specifically confirmed that Cyndane is Lanfear?

 

If this has not been absolutely confirmed I have a crazy theory about this whole thing.

 

There have been many crazy theories :P The main problem being that there isn't many strong female channelers who work for the Shadow, want Rand, and were held by the Finns.

 

 

Well, here it is. Cyndane is significantly lower in the power than Lanfear. Perhaps Cyndane is not Lanfear; perhaps she is Moiraine. This could have either a positive or negative result depending on whether Moiraine is working for the shadow or not. This also could have Lanfear implications. Perhaps Lanfear has something that they need to know and now that the Snakes and Foxes have been able to dig through her memory, they have the extra information that Rand needs.

 

Also, on a side note, I was re-reading Mat's trip to see the Foxes in Rhuidean and noticed how similar their description is to the Myrddraal. The Myrddraal have been confirmed to be slightly out of phase with the world. Connection here? So... What happens if you daze a fox with music, blind a Fox permanently (remove its eyes) and then bind the fox with iron. This could be totally off, but it stood out to me as I was reading back through it. We also still do not know how they are created. Perhaps that is what happens when the foxes step outside of their own world?

[Shard]

Here is my question since it's been a while since I took part in discussions on here. Did we ever have it specifically confirmed that Cyndane is Lanfear?

 

If this has not been absolutely confirmed I have a crazy theory about this whole thing.

 

There have been many crazy theories :P The main problem being that there isn't many strong female channelers who work for the Shadow, want Rand, and were held by the Finns.

 

 

Well, here it is. Cyndane is significantly lower in the power than Lanfear. Perhaps Cyndane is not Lanfear; perhaps she is Moiraine. This could have either a positive or negative result depending on whether Moiraine is working for the shadow or not. This also could have Lanfear implications. Perhaps Lanfear has something that they need to know and now that the Snakes and Foxes have been able to dig through her memory, they have the extra information that Rand needs.

 

Also, on a side note, I was re-reading Mat's trip to see the Foxes in Rhuidean and noticed how similar their description is to the Myrddraal. The Myrddraal have been confirmed to be slightly out of phase with the world. Connection here? So... What happens if you daze a fox with music, blind a Fox permanently (remove its eyes) and then bind the fox with iron. This could be totally off, but it stood out to me as I was reading back through it. We also still do not know how they are created. Perhaps that is what happens when the foxes step outside of their own world?

 

I was pretty certain that Myrddraal were made from Trollocs somehow, something about Trollocs rapping poor women. We are shown a scene of Demandred I believe it was in LoC seeing just that with a pair of women the Trollocs were using.

 

Also their abilities come from the Taint of the DO.

[Bellanoire]

well maybe lanfear is still alive as well as moraine and when he abandons lanfear to the finns hes giving up part of what he says he won't do, kill a woman ever again, giving up half his moral code to save Moraine and thus saving the world, I believe he gives up the eye for two reason, 1 to bargain for Morains release and its the eye the elfin(the foxy type ones) are seeing out of, he keeps the eye the snaky type can see out of.

[Beren]

@Shard: Makes sense. Been a while since I read through the entire series. Just been skimming recently.

 

@Terez: Yes! Here is a supportive quote from an Egwene dream about Mat. "In another, a woman, face shrouded in shadow, beckoned him toward great danger; Egwene did not know what, only that it was monstrous."

[Barid Bel Medar]

Cyndane = Lanfear is 99% confirmed. It is pretty much impossible for her not to be. Really. And no, Moiraine could not be Cyndane. She is too weak to be Cyndane. While Cyndane (Lanfear) was weakened, she is still much stronger than Moiraine is/was. She is still stronger than Graendal, who is extremely strong for a woman. Near to Egwene and Elayne.

 

Lanfear was extrodinarily strong, head over any other female channeler. Stilled and healed, she would have lost a fair bit of strength, but still be stronger than most.

 

Besides, its confirmed from her PoV. She wanted to rule the world with Rand (who she calls LTT) with the Chodean Kal. She loved him exactly like Lanfear. She was held by the Finns. Also, when she sees Alivia, she remembers how she was the strongest possible female channeler before the Finns had her. Now if thats not Lanfear, then Rand is a rabbit. It is ridiculous to think anything else, to be honest.

 

The Path of Daggers book tour 14 November 1998, Louisville, KY - Matthew Hunter reporting

 

"Do you consider the identities of Moridin and Cyndane to be intuitively obvious?" He said yes, they should be fairly obvious by now, in many more words.

 

Fairly obvious is a mild understatment.

[Bellanoire]

An alternate theory to Leigh's "Oh Crap" moment that I have considered is that this may actually have to do with Logain and Taim finally coming face to face. Specifically, this will at first appear to be a confrontation between the two but instead the two will claps hands and reveal the evil scheme which they have been hatching together. If this happens I will be severely heartbroken as I have been a huge Logain fans since the moment he left Tar Valon, but Leigh did say it involved to excellent story telling and I must admit it would be a rather clever twist. I suppose the real question here is have we been waiting quite 15 years for this confrontation? Well it was not until WT that we began seeing a clear divide in the BT between those loyal to Taim and those Loyal to Logain, and this book was released only ten years ago. Moreover, as of the end of LoC (16 years ago) we had good reason to believe that Taim was on the up and up as he had just shed up @ Dummi's well to save Rand's butt from the AS. On the other hand, Taim did always show a touch of animosity toward Rand and LTT always freaked out in his presence thus we also had reason to believe that Taim might have a hidden agenda. Couple this with the fact that Logain was more or less helpful and cooperate during the flight from Tar Valon and his time in Salidar and we have good reason to believe that Logain, at least, was on the up and up. Taken all together this did seem to indicate a Logain good, Taim bad dynamic and I for one began to suspect at this point that the two would ultimately come into conflict. Any thoughts?

 

didn't taim pretty much prove he's a darkfriend when he says"let the lord of chaose rule" at the end of the last book...sorry can't remember titles

[Bellanoire]

Cyndane = Lanfear is 99% confirmed. It is pretty much impossible for her not to be. Really. And no, Moiraine could not be Cyndane. She is too weak to be Cyndane. While Cyndane (Lanfear) was weakened, she is still much stronger than Moiraine is/was. She is still stronger than Graendal, who is extremely strong for a woman. Near to Egwene and Elayne.

 

Lanfear was extrodinarily strong, head over any other female channeler. Stilled and healed, she would have lost a fair bit of strength, but still be stronger than most.

 

Besides, its confirmed from her PoV. She wanted to rule the world with Rand (who she calls LTT) with the Chodean Kal. She loved him exactly like Lanfear. She was held by the Finns. Also, when she sees Alivia, she remembers how she was the strongest possible female channeler before the Finns had her. Now if thats not Lanfear, then Rand is a rabbit. It is ridiculous to think anything else, to be honest.

 

The Path of Daggers book tour 14 November 1998, Louisville, KY - Matthew Hunter reporting

 

"Do you consider the identities of Moridin and Cyndane to be intuitively obvious?" He said yes, they should be fairly obvious by now, in many more words.

 

Fairly obvious is a mild understatment.

 

I'm not sure it ever actually has her saying she was, only snippetts that almost come out as sounding like she might be lanfear. frankly i do think she is lanfear but not a 99% maybe A 60 40. AND NO I NEVER THOUGHT CYND WOULD BE mORAINE, i mean come on cydys a darkfriend and Mo wasn't!

Now maybe Morains body is dead and when matt gets to her in the tower of ghengi she now inhabits lanfears body because her body was to damaged?! So lanfear died and became cyndi and Moraine became lanfear*w* her body anyway!

[Barid Bel Medar]

Cyndane = Lanfear is 99% confirmed. It is pretty much impossible for her not to be. Really. And no, Moiraine could not be Cyndane. She is too weak to be Cyndane. While Cyndane (Lanfear) was weakened, she is still much stronger than Moiraine is/was. She is still stronger than Graendal, who is extremely strong for a woman. Near to Egwene and Elayne.

 

Lanfear was extrodinarily strong, head over any other female channeler. Stilled and healed, she would have lost a fair bit of strength, but still be stronger than most.

 

Besides, its confirmed from her PoV. She wanted to rule the world with Rand (who she calls LTT) with the Chodean Kal. She loved him exactly like Lanfear. She was held by the Finns. Also, when she sees Alivia, she remembers how she was the strongest possible female channeler before the Finns had her. Now if thats not Lanfear, then Rand is a rabbit. It is ridiculous to think anything else, to be honest.

 

The Path of Daggers book tour 14 November 1998, Louisville, KY - Matthew Hunter reporting

 

"Do you consider the identities of Moridin and Cyndane to be intuitively obvious?" He said yes, they should be fairly obvious by now, in many more words.

 

Fairly obvious is a mild understatment.

 

I'm not sure it ever actually has her saying she was, only snippetts that almost come out as sounding like she might be lanfear. frankly i do think she is lanfear but not a 99% maybe A 60 40. AND NO I NEVER THOUGHT CYND WOULD BE mORAINE, i mean come on cydys a darkfriend and Mo wasn't!

Now maybe Morains body is dead and when matt gets to her in the tower of ghengi she now inhabits lanfears body because her body was to damaged?! So lanfear died and became cyndi and Moraine became lanfear*w* her body anyway!

 

How many other people asked to rule the world with Lews Therin and the Chodean Kal and contend with the Creator, trapped in the Tower of Ghengei, was the strongest female channeler alive and is a darkfriend?

 

Really, its impossible for her not to be. Read her PoV in WH during the cleansing, it is pretty obvious.

[Bellanoire]

I still think your giving that a more lanfear twist

 

the do can bring a male back into a female body, a few of the chosen have tried to make a deal with rand to rule the world, usually when they are about to get there asses kicks, even asmo hoped rand would win and mentioned the chodan chal.

 

do you have the quote that you keep mentioning? I have a kindle and can't look it up by page number, unfortunately they don't work that way for refferencing

 

hey i'm out for the night i'll check this in a few days!Night all!

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

How many other people asked to rule the world with Lews Therin and the Chodean Kal and contend with the Creator, trapped in the Tower of Ghengei, was the strongest female channeler alive and is a darkfriend?

 

Really, its impossible for her not to be. Read her PoV in WH during the cleansing, it is pretty obvious.

 

Yahbut, do you have that in writing? Is it signed by five witnesses? Is it notarized and sealed? Please post a polygraph tape confirming the truthfulness of your contention about all of the above.

 

jk, I agree it is certain that Cyndane = Lanfear, but five years from now somebody will still be contending that she isn't. Just as there are still those who think Olver is Gaidal Cain umpteen years after Jordan flatly said that he isn't.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

How many other people asked to rule the world with Lews Therin and the Chodean Kal and contend with the Creator, trapped in the Tower of Ghengei, was the strongest female channeler alive and is a darkfriend?

 

Really, its impossible for her not to be. Read her PoV in WH during the cleansing, it is pretty obvious.

 

Yahbut, do you have that in writing? Is it signed by five witnesses? Is it notarized and sealed? Please post a polygraph tape confirming the truthfulness of your contention about all of the above.

 

jk, I agree it is certain that Cyndane = Lanfear, but five years from now somebody will still be contending that she isn't. Just as there are still those who think Olver is Gaidal Cain umpteen years after Jordan flatly said that he isn't.

 

Hhaha, it is so true. Same happened with Asmodean not a long time ago. Said he didnt actually die and that "he is roadkill" quote from RJ didnt confirm that he died because it wasnt a direct "he is dead." Thats DM for ya!

 

I still love everyone though