Discuss Jason's Proper Review

[reson8]

I can't help but worry for Olver now, and not in an "Oh crap he might die" sort of way. It's in more of an "Oh crap, something horrible is going to happen to Olver that's worse than death" sort of way.

 

I don't think death either--but what about it happening because of Olver, instead of to him? I'm thinking here about the chance Olver will follow Mat and co. into the Tower of Ghenjei, thus violating Moiraine's stricture about there being nor more or less than the three she set out. Jason did say it was 'both endearing and tragic.' Olver trying to help could be endearing--and it would be tragic.

 

Jason also said "some would think it humorous". I dont think him messing up the ToG and possibly killing one of Mat's compainions would be funny to ANYONE. Although, of course, we dont know the exact context this is in, so its possible.

 

I do like the idea that Olver will try to help and mess it up somehow, but the way i read that part of Jason's review, it seemed to be something a little less physically disasterous, but still devistating on an emotional level (if that makes sense).

 

Also, I think the comment about "long term effects of the pattern" (ripples or somehtin, i cant recall the exact wording) might be an indication that Mat being nice and taking Olver in put them all in danger, and that it would be beter if he had been left to die. (This would tie into the ToG sneak in)

 

I was thinking maybe this would be the reason Mat gives up his eye. As a price to fix what Olver does.

 

As for humour, I doubt the tragic part of it will be humorous, but maybe the lead up.

 

Mat: Oh, Olver you incorrigeable rapscallion. If only you would do as you were told, like I did when I was young.

 

Moiraine: Say what now?

 

This would then lead Moiraine to poke Mat in the eye, thus him losing half the light of the world.

[Sentinel78]

Like everyone else, I'm curious about Olver. Jason said it would be something that we should have seen coming but wouldn't. I don't know why but I think it's going to have to do with Mat sending Olver away. I mean, he is a kid. Did we really expect him to ride to the last battle with Mat? Maybe before Mat goes to the ToG he has Elayne make a gateway to the TWo Rivers and drops Olver off with Abell. I could easily see that scene being humorous to some but ultimately tragic.

 

I like this idea, except once Elayne gets her hands on Olver, what's to stop her from enlisting him as one of her bath attendants?

 

From Jason's review, we know that the focus of ToM is primarily on Mat and Perrin. I've always liked Mat more but I am more interested in Perrin only because I don't have any idea what he's really going to do. Mat is going to ToM, is going to fight the gholam somehow and will hopefully make some headway on Dragon-production and uniting some of the disparate military forces under his command. What's Perrin going to do though? He has Slayer as his adversary, similar to Mat's gholam. But aside from that, he has to reconcile the wolves and leadership. Is that really ta'veren worthy? Perhaps the Broken Crown will lead him to take over the Borderland armies when their leadership is wiped out, but why is Perrin a better choice than Lan in that regard? Lan is at least a Borderland king already. Anyway, I guess we'll see. Good review.

[TreeJoe]

Olver is going to get into Aludra's store of gunpowder and fire sticks....you can't keep this stuff around 8-10 year old boys and expect them to stay out of it forever....

 

 

I don't think the cleansing of the taint was a negative on the pattern; quite the opposite. If the wheel that weaves the pattern is driven by the one power, then the pattern was being tainted previously.

 

OTOH, I think Balefire was seriously feared enough so that the Forsaken never used it and pondered if they would use it to kill the Dragon. And they were uncertain.

 

And since tGH, Rand has been using it left, right, and Sunday as his one-stop shop for killing everything from Darkhounds to Palaces full of people, I could definitely see it having an effect.

 

I would also note that it seems we have observed two notable balescreams, but for the life of me I can't remember what caused the first one. I just remember people thinking it was the Dark One.

 

On that note: has anyone ever observed that a Balescream has an, apparently, identical interaction with the physical world as what happened when the Bore was first done (a ripple spread outwards from it through the Da'shain Aiel, people asking him what was happening).

[Ataxia]

Haha, I think the bath idea has some merit. Mat is stuck in the tower and Olver goes to Elayne looking for someone to help him. He charges in on her bath and starts pleading for help. It would be funny because Elayne would be trying to cover herself, while tragic because Olver is breaking down looking for help.

[b3arz3rg3r]

On that note: has anyone ever observed that a Balescream has an, apparently, identical interaction with the physical world as what happened when the Bore was first done (a ripple spread outwards from it through the Da'shain Aiel, people asking him what was happening).

 

Not exactly that, but I've occasionaly wondered about the origins of the Dark One. I had that crazy notion that the Dark One was a human in the very first age who had actually used balefire to such an extend that the pattern recoiled from him and he ended up outside the pattern. The DO just appears too human in his mannerism to be some sort of divine or infernal figure, atleast in my opinion. Besides it would actually make a lot more sense that a human and not the Creater itself is opposing the DO. Afterall if the DO is a man made mess it's only fitting that another man has to deal with it.

[jemron]

Why doesn't Jason get money for his involvement? Is there something wrong with that? What about the ads here at dragonmount.com? Does that all go back into the site?

 

Jason should've been paid by Tor.com to do the book trailer at least, IMO. I'm confused why he doesn't accept money for his involvement? Does he think we'll question his intentions? He's already proven to to me (and probably to most of us) that his intentions are good. Why not profit from all his hard work?

 

Oh, and, this review rocked! Much better than Leigh's IMO.

[Shard]

Why doesn't Jason get money for his involvement? Is there something wrong with that? What about the ads here at dragonmount.com? Does that all go back into the site?

 

Jason should've been paid by Tor.com to do the book trailer at least, IMO. I'm confused why he doesn't accept money for his involvement? Does he think we'll question his intentions? He's already proven to to me (and probably to most of us) that his intentions are good. Why not profit from all his hard work?

 

Oh, and, this review rocked! Much better than Leigh's IMO.

 

Because he has nothing to do with the creation of the books that's why. The Trailer is considered fan material, why would Tor pay for it? Though you are right that the ads on the site DO go to paying for Dragonmount.com.

[aunt_pol]

I just wonder how Jason makes a living. He surely couldn't fit in a life/job/relationships etc around all this?!

[sleepinghour]

I'm wondering if the sad event involving Olver has anything to do with Noal. Olver loves The Travels of Jain Farstrider and got upset when Noal called Jain a fool. If Noal reveals he's Jain and was manipulated by Ishamael...I can see Olver devastated at finding out his hero wasn't as noble and heroic as he thought.

[sdelu]

Perhaps the Broken Crown will lead him to take over the Borderland armies when their leadership is wiped out, but why is Perrin a better choice than Lan in that regard? Lan is at least a Borderland king already. Anyway, I guess we'll see. Good review.

 

My answer to that would be to ask you who would be more likely to bring a group of 200,000 men out alive: Lan, who is near hellbent on getting himself killed; or Perrin, who despite his rages is a calm, thoughtful leader and a tactician? Out of THOSE two Perrin is a much better choice if you actually want the light to win.

 

 

Not exactly that, but I've occasionaly wondered about the origins of the Dark One. I had that crazy notion that the Dark One was a human in the very first age who had actually used balefire to such an extend that the pattern recoiled from him and he ended up outside the pattern. The DO just appears too human in his mannerism to be some sort of divine or infernal figure, atleast in my opinion. Besides it would actually make a lot more sense that a human and not the Creater itself is opposing the DO. Afterall if the DO is a man made mess it's only fitting that another man has to deal with it.

 

An interesting thought, but I have a very hard time imagining how he/she would become so powerful, especially to the point where there would be a separate power attached to him/her that can rival even the Creator.

 

There sure is something odd about the DO though, isn't there?

 

I'm wondering if the sad event involving Olver has anything to do with Noal. Olver loves The Travels of Jain Farstrider and got upset when Noal called Jain a fool. If Noal reveals he's Jain and was manipulated by Ishamael...I can see Olver devastated at finding out his hero wasn't as noble and heroic as he thought.

 

Yes, that was my first thought upon reading about Olver. I initially thought Noal would die and that's what would crush him, but with the addition of the "some may laugh" part I guess linking those two events together doesn't really qualify.

[Naffy]

Excellent review. My need for this book is reaching a fevered pitch. I am actually excited for a "darker, grittier" novel. I am also a fan of novels with a wider scope, as this one will have.

[Maji]

I wish I had read the other one now only because I feel left out and want to see what was different about it. Oh well.

 

Thanks for the review Jason, it definitely made me more excited for the book (which I didn't think was possible). I'm going to have to take a vacation day from work when it comes out to finish by the time the our brings Brandon here the day after release... I think this was only re-enforces that further! xD

[b3arz3rg3r]

I just wonder how Jason makes a living. He surely couldn't fit in a life/job/relationships etc around all this?!

 

In winter he sells matches and in summer he polishes shoes. Jokes aside, he runs a ponzy scheme.

 

Not exactly that, but I've occasionaly wondered about the origins of the Dark One. I had that crazy notion that the Dark One was a human in the very first age who had actually used balefire to such an extend that the pattern recoiled from him and he ended up outside the pattern. The DO just appears too human in his mannerism to be some sort of divine or infernal figure, atleast in my opinion. Besides it would actually make a lot more sense that a human and not the Creater itself is opposing the DO. Afterall if the DO is a man made mess it's only fitting that another man has to deal with it.

 

An interesting thought, but I have a very hard time imagining how he/she would become so powerful, especially to the point where there would be a separate power attached to him/her that can rival even the Creator.

 

There sure is something odd about the DO though, isn't there?

 

A sa'angreal even more powerful than the Choedan Kal would be my explanation. As for his power rivalling the Creator, that's only human belief without any basis of fact.

 

I wish I had read the other one now only because I feel left out and want to see what was different about it. Oh well.

 

Except for one paragraph which got cut in the official version it's pretty much identical in terms of content.

[Vayna]

I already have release day scheduled off; I actually put that day down as soon as I found out what day it was being published. :) I have done this for the last several books because I get too fidgety at work. Can't wait!!

[Alanna]

Glad to know I'm not the only one, I took work off that day too! I plan to go buy the book as soon as the store opens and spend the day (and possibly that night) reading it.

 

I didn't think it was possible, but I'm even more excited for TOM than I already was. Although I'm nervous for so many of the characters! This book is obviously going to be a huge game-changer. I'm actually really excited for Perrin's storyline, and he's bored me to tears for the last several books. I'm also glad to hear Mat is back in full form; although I enjoyed his bit in TGS, I was one of those who felt he was a bit off. I could already tell the difference in the Seven Striped Lass.

[TreeJoe]

The Dark One exists across all patterns & worlds.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

Not exactly that, but I've occasionaly wondered about the origins of the Dark One. I had that crazy notion that the Dark One was a human in the very first age who had actually used balefire to such an extend that the pattern recoiled from him and he ended up outside the pattern. The DO just appears too human in his mannerism to be some sort of divine or infernal figure, atleast in my opinion. Besides it would actually make a lot more sense that a human and not the Creater itself is opposing the DO. Afterall if the DO is a man made mess it's only fitting that another man has to deal with it.

 

An interesting thought, but I have a very hard time imagining how he/she would become so powerful, especially to the point where there would be a separate power attached to him/her that can rival even the Creator.

 

There sure is something odd about the DO though, isn't there?

 

A sa'angreal even more powerful than the Choedan Kal would be my explanation. As for his power rivalling the Creator, that's only human belief without any basis of fact.

 

 

The DO is not human. He is the counterbalance to the Creator. Like God and the Devil kinda thing.

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Dark One doesn't care about his minions sufficiently to invest much time in their punishment except as it serves to correct their behavior or as object lesson to others, nor is there much in the way of gradation. Simple failure and outright betrayal might be punished equally, or one might result in death and the other in becoming an object lesson or in something else. (The mindtrap, by the way, could be called an object lesson only to the one so trapped; remember, none of the Forsaken know who is mindtrapped except Moridin and those who are trapped.) The decision, death or object lesson or something else, normally would be simply a matter of whether or not he believed there was any point to an object lesson and/or whether or not he felt there was really any further use in the individual. Or, for that matter, made for reasons unknowable to a human mind. Remember, the Dark One is NOT human and thinking of him in human terms just doesn't work.

 

Compuserve Chat 26 June 1996

 

Martin Reznick: How was the Dark One created, i.e. is he a fallen angel, an inherent part of the universe, etc.?

RJ: I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart, the dark balance if you will, to the Creator carrying on the theme, the yin yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books . . . it's somewhat Manichean I know, but I think it works.

[b3arz3rg3r]

 

Not exactly that, but I've occasionaly wondered about the origins of the Dark One. I had that crazy notion that the Dark One was a human in the very first age who had actually used balefire to such an extend that the pattern recoiled from him and he ended up outside the pattern. The DO just appears too human in his mannerism to be some sort of divine or infernal figure, atleast in my opinion. Besides it would actually make a lot more sense that a human and not the Creater itself is opposing the DO. Afterall if the DO is a man made mess it's only fitting that another man has to deal with it.

 

An interesting thought, but I have a very hard time imagining how he/she would become so powerful, especially to the point where there would be a separate power attached to him/her that can rival even the Creator.

 

There sure is something odd about the DO though, isn't there?

 

A sa'angreal even more powerful than the Choedan Kal would be my explanation. As for his power rivalling the Creator, that's only human belief without any basis of fact.

 

 

The DO is not human. He is the counterbalance to the Creator. Like God and the Devil kinda thing.

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Dark One doesn't care about his minions sufficiently to invest much time in their punishment except as it serves to correct their behavior or as object lesson to others, nor is there much in the way of gradation. Simple failure and outright betrayal might be punished equally, or one might result in death and the other in becoming an object lesson or in something else. (The mindtrap, by the way, could be called an object lesson only to the one so trapped; remember, none of the Forsaken know who is mindtrapped except Moridin and those who are trapped.) The decision, death or object lesson or something else, normally would be simply a matter of whether or not he believed there was any point to an object lesson and/or whether or not he felt there was really any further use in the individual. Or, for that matter, made for reasons unknowable to a human mind. Remember, the Dark One is NOT human and thinking of him in human terms just doesn't work.

 

Compuserve Chat 26 June 1996

 

Martin Reznick: How was the Dark One created, i.e. is he a fallen angel, an inherent part of the universe, etc.?

RJ: I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart, the dark balance if you will, to the Creator carrying on the theme, the yin yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books . . . it's somewhat Manichean I know, but I think it works.

 

Thx for clearing that up.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

Not exactly that, but I've occasionaly wondered about the origins of the Dark One. I had that crazy notion that the Dark One was a human in the very first age who had actually used balefire to such an extend that the pattern recoiled from him and he ended up outside the pattern. The DO just appears too human in his mannerism to be some sort of divine or infernal figure, atleast in my opinion. Besides it would actually make a lot more sense that a human and not the Creater itself is opposing the DO. Afterall if the DO is a man made mess it's only fitting that another man has to deal with it.

 

An interesting thought, but I have a very hard time imagining how he/she would become so powerful, especially to the point where there would be a separate power attached to him/her that can rival even the Creator.

 

There sure is something odd about the DO though, isn't there?

 

A sa'angreal even more powerful than the Choedan Kal would be my explanation. As for his power rivalling the Creator, that's only human belief without any basis of fact.

 

 

The DO is not human. He is the counterbalance to the Creator. Like God and the Devil kinda thing.

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Dark One doesn't care about his minions sufficiently to invest much time in their punishment except as it serves to correct their behavior or as object lesson to others, nor is there much in the way of gradation. Simple failure and outright betrayal might be punished equally, or one might result in death and the other in becoming an object lesson or in something else. (The mindtrap, by the way, could be called an object lesson only to the one so trapped; remember, none of the Forsaken know who is mindtrapped except Moridin and those who are trapped.) The decision, death or object lesson or something else, normally would be simply a matter of whether or not he believed there was any point to an object lesson and/or whether or not he felt there was really any further use in the individual. Or, for that matter, made for reasons unknowable to a human mind. Remember, the Dark One is NOT human and thinking of him in human terms just doesn't work.

 

Compuserve Chat 26 June 1996

 

Martin Reznick: How was the Dark One created, i.e. is he a fallen angel, an inherent part of the universe, etc.?

RJ: I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart, the dark balance if you will, to the Creator carrying on the theme, the yin yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books . . . it's somewhat Manichean I know, but I think it works.

 

Thx for clearing that up.

 

No probs.

 

If not for the quotes and clarification, the theory would be very interesting. I guess thats why RJ was always a big fan of RAFO. With quotes such as that that sets it straight, no room for theorizing.

 

Oh well.

[TheBeerPatriot]

Anybody think that the cleansing of the taint might have empowered Fain, somehow? He seems to have a sort of connection to Shadar Logoth, and from the prologue he's very much more powerful than he was last time we saw him. Perhaps he returned and absorbed the taint (it might like him as much as machin shin)? Or absorbed the remnants of Shadar Logoth's power?

It's an interesting point. But since Shadar Logoth was destroyed during the cleansing, I don't know if there was any taint or residue leftover for Fain to inherit? I do agree that based on his scene in the ToM prologue that his powers are enhanced, but I don't know if that's a result of the remnants of the cleansing, or if Fain got those enhanced powers elsewhere. But Shadar Logoth is as likely as any, especially with being able to use Mashadar.

[TheBeerPatriot]

Also I got the distinct impression that we won't really like this book. Not that it's written poorly, but that the plot elements that play out won't be to our liking. Much like how Leigh said in TGS that "The Last that Could be Done" was to be hated. Not because it was written poorly, but because it had been written to be exactly as awful as it was supposed to. Makes me think ToM is the darkest hour before sunrise. It's "The Empire Strikes Back" to to the later "Return of the Jedi."

Good point. Especially where Jason indicated that ToM is darker and grittier than TGS, there will probably be several scenes that are not to our liking.

 

I also get the feeling that ToM will be similar to Empire Strikes Back in terms of being the darkest hour. Since Empire is my favorite Star Wars flick, I really have high hopes for Towers ;)

[Sentinel78]

Anybody think that the cleansing of the taint might have empowered Fain, somehow? He seems to have a sort of connection to Shadar Logoth, and from the prologue he's very much more powerful than he was last time we saw him. Perhaps he returned and absorbed the taint (it might like him as much as machin shin)? Or absorbed the remnants of Shadar Logoth's power?

It's an interesting point. But since Shadar Logoth was destroyed during the cleansing, I don't know if there was any taint or residue leftover for Fain to inherit? I do agree that based on his scene in the ToM prologue that his powers are enhanced, but I don't know if that's a result of the remnants of the cleansing, or if Fain got those enhanced powers elsewhere. But Shadar Logoth is as likely as any, especially with being able to use Mashadar.

 

I think the taint-cleansing empowered Fain in the sense that destroying Shadar Logoth 'freed' Mashadar, at least in the sense that it was previously bound to the city and is now bound to the only other physical manifestation of Shadar Logoth in the world, which is the ruby dagger (or perhaps even Fain himself now). The Prologue essentially shows Mashadar trailing Fain now, and apparently obeying his commands.

 

Remember, just prior to the taint-cleansing, Fain's best attempt to kill Rand consisted of distracting him with an Illusion in Far Madding so he could stab Rand. Now, he can kill Fists of Trollocs, Worms and Fades with his deathmist, which is probably Mashadar. I would call that empowerment. In other words, the evil of Shadar Logoth is much more concentrated around Fain now.

[sdelu]

I think the power has been naturally growing. We haven't seen him in a while now so I don't think natural progression is out of the question. Mashadar was what, the concentrated hate of any entire city turned near-sentient? and fain brought a remnant of that with him (along with mordeth) from shadar logoth.

 

I think it's as simple as the more he kills, the more souls he consumes, the stronger he gets. Remember he had the seeds for all his powers, he just needed to fertilize a bit.

[Crael123]

i honestly can say i liked his review WAY more than the other one by Leigh. no spoilers though really, the other gave more away. but this is REALLY GOOD cuz that means there are some things he couldnt even talk about they were so spoiler heavy! and i was super happy to see that we would be seeing RAND post VOG and Egwene post seanchan invasion. awesome review hungry for book

[Jong]

Makes me think ToM is the darkest hour before sunrise. It's "The Empire Strikes Back" to to the later "Return of the Jedi."

 

I really hope that AMOL doesn't end with an Ewok music video.