Speculation About Chapters One Through Seven

[Luckers]

Please note, when I say prologue reading, I mean the reports from DragonCon, not the released iphone sample.

 

 

 

 

So, unless you are going to make the absurd suggestion that I am reading too much into things, Chapter 8 tells us a few interesting things about Chapters 1-7. :P

 

1. The exposition on Mat's time in Caemlyn and the way Mat went on about the letter tells us that Chapter 8 is probably Mat's first chapter in the book.

 

2. Chapter 8 read as the first mention of the rumours of the Seanchan attack on the Tower and the change in weather following Veins of Gold. Whilst the timelines are out, I think we can assume that everything prior to Chapter 8 will occur chronologically prior to the end of tGS, and that it is after 8 that storylines will be drawing even--so to be clear, I'm not saying we won't see chapters after 8 that take place before it, I'm saying that I doubt we'll see chapters before chapter 8 that take place after... make sense?

 

Now, we're about to move on to the speculation portion. Here it is--I think that whilst, due to the time mashing, we'll see stuff from before VoG after chapter eight, there are two events that are so strongly and chronologically linked as being Pre-VoG, that I think they have to be dealt with BEFORE chapter 8 or else the jarring will be too great. Specifically, Graendal's death and Nynaeve picking up Tam (actually that's not entirely correct, the event which has to happen is that Perrin and Galad must meet, and Morgase must be revealed, before Chapter 8--Nynaeve picking up Tam could probably occur offscreen and simply be referenced to have occurred later on).

 

This names to my mind the two major storylines of Chapters 1 through 7.

 

Perrin and Galad's Arc - Warning Prologue Reading Spoilers!

 

 

 

 

If you've read the reports of the Prologue then you know Galad gets taken by Asunawa. We know Galad and Perrin are together before Nynaeve goes for Tam, so that has to have happened before chapter 8. We may or may not see Nynaeve arrive--it could be that in, like chapter 15 it gets referenced happening off screen... like...

 

Balwer - My Lord, Nynaeve Sedai came and took Master Al'thor.

Perrin - What kind of dress did she wear?

Balwer - Umm... a green one.

Perrin - Did it have embroidery?

Balwer - I think so, My Lord. Little yellow flowers.

Perrin - You think, or you know?

Balwer - I am... uncertain.

Perrin - YOU CALL YOURSELF MY SPYMASTER? FIND OUT DAMMIT!!!

 

But for this to be the case, everything that we know happens to Perrin must be set up before chapter 8--so Perrin will have rescued Galad/Galad will have won over the Whitecloaks--whatever. Perrin and Galad have to be together, or just about to meet, and either be at, or approaching, the sword of the amun'rhukane.

 

In any case this tells us that Perrin and Galad will be in chapters one to seven, and probably quite heavily given what they have to move through.

 

Graendal's Death

 

This one I'm locked on. We must see the PoV of Rand's attack on Natrin's Barrow before any hints of VoG having happened are referenced. This is too powerfully locked in chronologically for it to be a time twist--it'd be way, way too jarring.

 

I suspect we need at least two Graendal scene's anyway, because we know that she was up to something with 'making Rand feel pain'. I've made the arguments before that Graendal has to be seen in ToM prior to Rand's attack, though I suppose it is possible that we just see her sitting there thinking to herself about the plans she's set in motion, then flash of white, and then later we see the fruition of her plans (Elayne not responding to Mat, despite her stated desire to see him again, anyone?)

 

It's actually funny, if I'm correct and she lives, then I'd be more inclined to believed it'd be just one scene--her escaping the attack--but if the vast majority of you are correct and she's dead, then I think thematically it demands two or more scenes pre-death for purely thematic reasons. I believe that's the case anyway (that it'll be two scenes)--too much time passed between when Moridin gave her the orders and Rand attacked for her not to have been noteably active.

 

Will There Be a Third Storyline?

 

Not a huge one, but Lan is possible. References to Trolloc invasions in the borderlands... If he is it will be no more than one small scene in which you see he's progressed a ways since the prologue, gathered a large army, and is just hearing news of Trolloc incursions. No actual action at this point. That's it. What I've layed out above is a lot to get through in seven chapters. We may see like Aviendha in the Three-Fold land, provided she was being attacked/stalked by Graendal, but I genuinely think that's too much material for seven chapters.

 

 

So here is my general lay out--Perrin/Galad 70%, Graendal 15%, Lan 5%.

 

Chapter One - Graendal enacting plans (not just laying them, but setting them in motion proactively). Possibly stalking Aviendha in the Three-Fold Land? Spying on Elayne revealing she's deduced/learnt who the real father of her children are, contacting Duhara the black--something like that.

 

Chapter Two or Three - Perrin - Perrin's still having leadership/dream problems. Possibly runs into Bornhald and Byar, and agrees to work with them (ooh drama--possible Morgase reveals herself to make Perrin agree to work with Bornhald for Galads's sake) (Note, I think this is a good bet to be entitled Questions of Leadership--Perrin debating his leadership--and if he does meet Bornhald here, agreeing to work with him because of a revelation about what it is to lead--to do the right thing, both for himself morally (save someone who needs saving) and for his people (Morgase in this instance)).

 

Chapter Three or Two - Galad - Galad amongst the questioners, possibly working to convince them he's right. Asunawa might tell him that Bornhald and Byar are dogging their footsteps (if they don't meet up with Perrin).

 

Chapter Four - Lan? - Overseeing his growing army and hearing reports of heavy Trolloc movement. He is out of Saldaea now, possibly much much further along than he was when we see him in the prologue.

 

Chapter Five - Galad/Perrin - Perrin with Bornhald and Byar (or them by themselves) have found Asunawa and are playing how to take him back? Or Galad making headway in convincing Asunawa's followers he's right.

 

Chapter Six - Galad/Perrin - Galad is freed and meets Perrin.

 

Chapter Seven - Graendal - deducing Rand's intentions, and skillfully duping him before she escapes and Natrin's Barrow is destroyed. :D

 

Chapter Eight - MAT IN CAEMLYN!!!

 

 

So what do you kids think. I'll take bets... that I'm right about chapter eight at least. :P

[Demiandre]

I think it is good. But when storylines are split, we sometime see plot and arcs going forward than other arcs, even in the same book. Look at the Bowl of Ind beeing used. We get lot of Elayne before we get Grady feeling the use of saidin in the air. I would bet on 10 chapters for the timelining.

 

And the Graendal laying plan could happen in the as yet unrevealed Prologue. IIRC, BS skipped major spoiler in the Prologue while reading it.

 

And I think there is a lack of a crowning of Elayne...

[Luckers]

I think it is good. But when storylines are split, we sometime see plot and arcs going forward than other arcs, even in the same book. Look at the Bowl of Ind beeing used. We get lot of Elayne before we get Grady feeling the use of saidin in the air. I would bet on 10 chapters for the timelining.

 

And the Graendal laying plan could happen in the as yet unrevealed Prologue. IIRC, BS skipped major spoiler in the Prologue while reading it.

 

And I think there is a lack of a crowning of Elayne...

 

The Crowning may not get shown. Alternatively we could see it through Graendal--that would be interesting. Elayne's greatest moment from the eyes of a Forsaken.

 

Alternatively I could be wrong--I read Elayne not responding to Mat as the first indication something dodgy was happening with Elayne, but it could be a wink to the reader who already know something dodgy is going on. I just don't see it though--I think I'm right about Graendal and Perrin needing to happen before references to VoG are made. I mean we're not talking people percieving the effects of someones actions out of time like with Grady, we're talking actual interaction of people.

 

Like I won't have a problem with Logain feeling Rand on Dragonmount in chapter 20--but actual characters interacting seem too much of a jar...

 

As for Graendal in the prologue, I find it unlikely given she was in the tGS prologue and the tGS and ToM prologues were largely split from the material of the original aMoL prologue. It's possible its all part of a greater Graendal prologue, or a new prologue created after the split, but I don't see it. Besides, Graendal doing what we know she was going to do from the tGS prologue is hardly a huge spoiler the likes of which Brandon spoke of. I like Moiraine for that. :)

[omer681]

How do you know what is in chapter 8?

[Luckers]

How do you know what is in chapter 8?

 

The Seven Striped Lass is chapter 8.

[omer681]

How do you know what is in chapter 8?

 

The Seven Striped Lass is chapter 8.

Oh, I thought Brandon said it is some kind of interlude..

[Luckers]

How do you know what is in chapter 8?

 

The Seven Striped Lass is chapter 8.

Oh, I thought Brandon said it is some kind of interlude..

 

 

Nope, chapter 8--he did speak about the interludes he had in Way of Kings recently though, so that may be where the lines got crossed.

[Demiandre]

Three prologues will make quite a very big one if you put them together. I suppose some stuff have been added, but don't speculate on what is inside.

 

I don't see the problem with the people interaction...

Rand seeing Mat in Caemlyn, and Perrin with Galad is happening before or after A Force of Light?

That is chronological. And we know those visions are at the same moment as Rand is having them. So with the WoT chronology and those swirling colors, we could guess better (except if you considered it already and took it into account in your opening post...)

 

Graendal attending the crowning would be awesome!

Elayne may just be busy leading some BA to the Tower for Execution/swearing the Oaths, bringing the Kin. Who knows (among the reader, that is)?

 

Isn't there something wrong with the timeline with the letter? Mat doesn't have to wait THAT long to open the letter, no? Haven't many deyx happened yet? He state that he has 33 days to wait. So it take place 17 after the meeting with Verin, right? From there, we have to follow the plotline from Perrin and others to see if it matches.

[Terez]

How do you know what is in chapter 8?

The Seven Striped Lass is chapter 8.

Oh, I thought Brandon said it is some kind of interlude..

No, that was a theory by cortezkiller and others here. I tried to tell them it was silly, but they wouldn't listen.

[Shmuel Goldberg]

I think Graendal is dead and stays dead. I don't think we'll see her pre-BF in ToM.

[Naffy]

I agree with everything except I think we will have some Elayne and find out why she is not responding to Mat. Tuesday can't get here soon enough.

[Tenesmus]

I think Verin will be the glue that holds the early part of the book together. She will likely have either a direct or indirect reference in every chapter for the first third to half of the book.

 

I am also predicting that Verin's "sponsor" among the Foresaken is/was Graendal... and we will see Verin with Graendal in ToM. Most likley Graendal, Verin and Ramalasan (sp) will all be in Natrin's Barrow. Verin and Ramalamadingdong will have a Compulsion put on them both and both will be sent away. (Verin via gateway) Rand balefires the place soon after and both Verin's and Ramalamadingdong's Compulsion get removed.

[Demiandre]

Grandal don't trust Friends of the Dark. She prefer a compulsed servant and herself than someone like a Darkfriend who can be taken by another Chosen or might have another agenda.

 

But Verin Travelling after making the gateway for Mat, stopping at some points to deliver a letter, and then going to Egwene's room.

 

Or following your idea, it's Verin who Compulsed Ramshalan after a Graendal's teach and it dissipated after she died. Thus the "not as bad as the Chandler's apprentice, or maybe just more subtle" :)

 

And Graendal is toast. Or not

[a_lily_in_winter]

I agree with everything except I think we will have some Elayne and find out why she is not responding to Mat. Tuesday can't get here soon enough.

 

I agree with the part about Elayne. Although it is possible that if it is something boring we will get a one sentence description of it later.

 

Another poster above posted about the possibility of Elayne's coronation, but I doubt we will see it. After all we didn't see Rand's coronation as King of Illian. Elayne is my favorite character but I would be just as happy to see a one line such as... It has been only 2 weeks since her coronation, but..

[Demiandre]

Wait... after three books of interminable bathing, sniffing, plotting, assassination attempt avoiding and Aes Sedaiing, we will not have the reward of our patience? The Crowning of Elayne could be the most interesting moment in all Elayne's plotline. If not related (why not just in a flashback), I'll headdesk deeply...

 

Edit : yes, that was me

[Naffy]

Wait... after three books of interminable bathing, sniffing, plotting, assassination attempt avoiding and Aes Sedaiing, we will not have the reward of our patience? The Crowning of Elayne could be the most interesting moment in all Elayne's plotline. If not related (why not just in a flashback), I'll headdesk deeply...

 

Edit : yes, that was me

Elayne is who we thought she was. And we let her off the hook. If you wanna crown her, then crown her.

[Tenesmus]

I think Elayne putting off Mat has to do with the fact that now she has the Band sitting outside of Caemlyn protecting one of her flanks. If only 100 men a day are allowed to enter the city, then she is guarenteed the vast majority of The Band stays right where she wants them. The longer she keeps him waiting, the longer she has a strong and heavily armed ally acting as a speedbump for anyone trying to attack from that direction. Egwene also "used" The Band in Salidar as a pawn for a politcal end. Additionally, Elayne has seen Mat's taveren effect first hand, ie; Ebou Dar confrontation with the Seafolk (I am the Master of the Blades! Do as I say!) She probably has been having "issues" with the Kin and Seafolk and doesn't need Mat's tavern-essness walking through the palace disrupting her political machinations. Add to that, if Teslyn knows of the happenings at the WT, then so does Elayne. Oh yeah, throw in Trollocs spilling in from the North, breaking her Black Ajah prisoners, rumors of Gawyn and Galad, and possibly a visit from Verin influencing her actions... either that or she is currently getting gang raped by thirteen Myrdraal, just saying.

[Fury000]

Grandal don't trust Friends of the Dark. She prefer a compulsed servant and herself than someone like a Darkfriend who can be taken by another Chosen or might have another agenda.

 

But Verin Travelling after making the gateway for Mat, stopping at some points to deliver a letter, and then going to Egwene's room.

 

Or following your idea, it's Verin who Compulsed Ramshalan after a Graendal's teach and it dissipated after she died. Thus the "not as bad as the Chandler's apprentice, or maybe just more subtle" :)

 

And Graendal is toast. Or not

 

hmm..what makes you think the complusion is removed if the one that did make it dies? I think you forgot about balefire and what it does. But if it was Graendal or some other female channelar that did it we dont know yet but that Verin did it is just a bit to stretched.

[GB]

@luckers, i agree that the first few chapters must be more on Perrin/Galad since (corret me if i am wrong) he is the furthest behind in terms of timeline?and if galad has been taken by Questioners, he need rescuing by Perrin, byar bumping into perrin and seeing he has an army at his disposition, grudginly ask for his help to rescue Lord Captain Commander Galad.

 

and regarding elayne, my guess is more on something happening to her and Birgitte coming to see Mat maybe asking for help. maybe elayne deduces that the gholam and is in Camelyn and starts to send the channellers away because she is aware channelling won't protect them, so Kin to the Tower and Sea folk well wherever. ;)

 

then Mat's doing some major butt-kicking of the gholam (rescuing elayne and thats the relief) then heads for ToG.

[TeyedocOTW]

Wait... after three books of interminable bathing, sniffing, plotting, assassination attempt avoiding and Aes Sedaiing, we will not have the reward of our patience? The Crowning of Elayne could be the most interesting moment in all Elayne's plotline. If not related (why not just in a flashback), I'll headdesk deeply...

 

Edit : yes, that was me

Elayne is who we thought she was. And we let her off the hook. If you wanna crown her, then crown her.

 

 

Naffy, that was the greatest post I've ever read on a DM forum! Somebody please hire Dennis Green!

 

Oh in relation to 7SL, what if Elayne is busy just being hugely pregnant? Do we have any idea how far along she is?

[b3arz3rg3r]

Wait... after three books of interminable bathing, sniffing, plotting, assassination attempt avoiding and Aes Sedaiing, we will not have the reward of our patience? The Crowning of Elayne could be the most interesting moment in all Elayne's plotline. If not related (why not just in a flashback), I'll headdesk deeply...

 

Edit : yes, that was me

Elayne is who we thought she was. And we let her off the hook. If you wanna crown her, then crown her.

 

 

Naffy, that was the greatest post I've ever read on a DM forum! Somebody please hire Dennis Green!

 

Oh in relation to 7SL, what if Elayne is busy just being hugely pregnant? Do we have any idea how far along she is?

 

Well she got pregnant in the middle of winter and last we saw her it was spring. So I'd say somewhere between three and six months, though I guess closer to six.

[Stevros]

I think Loial will get half a chapter at least, but I'm more inclined to say he'll get one, Perrin 3, Elayne 2 and Graendal 1. Depends a bit on all the POV's in the prologue (Brandon has given hints at 5 of them but the 6th he has kept well under wraps, so I'm guessing someone that we won't expect - perhaps Moraine, we are a long way behind in her POV, Elaida first in captivity or one of the surviving bloodknives)

[DemandredFO]

I like the idea of a Moiraine POV. Whets our appetite for the journey and that would satisfy Brandon's incredibly spoilerish comment.

[cortezthekiller]

Oh snap, a Moiraine POV from within finnland!?? I would flip.

 

That would be so freaking awesome.

[Demiandre]

Yeah, in the style of "the Blue in the tower of Benji"^^

 

That would be the best way to introduce them further. I don't think there will be much speaking during the Rescue. If any.