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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Rands Kids.


Shero
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Just somethine that came to mind some time back and I thought to run it by some people who might have thought the same thing. Its in regards to Rand and his relationship with Elaine Trakand.

 

As most know Rands Mother was married to Taringail Damodred and has a half brother Galadedraid Damodred. Elayne's mother also married Taringail Damodred so Elayne is Galededraid's half sister. (A lot of this half brother and sister thing happening with Moiraine being half sister to Taringail but thats another story.)

 

Anyway I know this shows that Rand and Elayne are not related but if you think about it, are not the Trakands (Elayne's family) and the Mantears (Rands Family)both decended from Ishara Casalain?

 

Food for thought!

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Just somethine that came to mind some time back and I thought to run it by some people who might have thought the same thing. Its in regards to Rand and his relationship with Elaine Trakand.

 

As most know Rands Mother was married to Taringail Damodred and has a half brother Galadedraid Damodred. Elayne's mother also married Taringail Damodred so Elayne is Galededraid's half sister. (A lot of this half brother and sister thing happening with Moiraine being half sister to Taringail but thats another story.)

 

Anyway I know this shows that Rand and Elayne are not related but if you think about it, are not the Trakands (Elayne's family) and the Mantears (Rands Family)both decended from Ishara Casalain?

 

Food for thought!

There is a really good family tree on one of the Wheel of Time wikis.

 

But to summarize it, Elayne and Rand are like 17th cousins or something similarly irrelevant (in terms of genetics, not in terms of lines of royalty).

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Rand beat you to realizing this. He made sure that there relation was distant enough as to be inconsequential before he was with her. (Apparently he became very well versed in the Andoran royal family while making sure). and as Kaznen said, Rand asked around to be sure.

 

They are related, but no more so than, say, any random person walking down the street could be related to you.

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damn. that would be so cool if rand dumped elayne

 

except for the part where she's hot, but not really. if anyone, he should dump min, but they're all fine i suppose.

 

i can't see rand and avi having any sort of intimate relationship... the other two seem more "in love", if you know what i mean.

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When Rand was talking with the one lady (I forget her name but she was the one who besieged Camlyn) she said if it was a country village the blood lines wouldn't be looked as related at all.

 

I think that was Elenia, in LoC26.

 

Actually, it was Deylan (Elayne's biggest supporter), when he realized it.

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When Rand was talking with the one lady (I forget her name but she was the one who besieged Camlyn) she said if it was a country village the blood lines wouldn't be looked as related at all.

 

I think that was Elenia, in LoC26.

 

Actually, it was Deylan (Elayne's biggest supporter), when he realized it.

No, because she kept trying to bring up how she had more lines of decent from Isharia then Dylan. She was trying to get Rand to make her Queen of Andor, and Dylan didn't want to be queen if Elyane was still alive.

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When Rand was talking with the one lady (I forget her name but she was the one who besieged Camlyn) she said if it was a country village the blood lines wouldn't be looked as related at all.

 

I think that was Elenia, in LoC26.

 

Actually, it was Deylan (Elayne's biggest supporter), when he realized it.

No, because she kept trying to bring up how she had more lines of decent from Isharia then Dylan. She was trying to get Rand to make her Queen of Andor, and Dylan didn't want to be queen if Elyane was still alive.

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From EncWoT:

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/loc/ch16.html

 

Rand dismisses them, but holds Dyelin back because he noticed her looking at him oddly. She asks who his mother is. Thinking of Kari al'Thor, Rand says his mother was Shaiel and his father was Janduin but he grew up in the Two Rivers. Dyelin explains that he looks like Tigraine who disappeared more than twenty-five years ago. She left behind her husband Taringail and her son Galad. There were rumors that Gitara Moroso had a hand in it. Her brother Luc rode north and disappeared a year before. There were rumors that Gitara was responsible for that as well. Rand is shocked realizing that Tigraine was the woman the Aiel found who became Shaiel. She really was his mother.

 

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/loc/ch26.html

 

Rand asks Elenia how closely related Morgase and Tigraine are. Elenia replies that they are royal cousins, but if they were commoners the bloodlines connect so far back that they would not be considered related at all. Rand is relieved that he is not related to Elayne.
Edited by FarShainMael
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Do the Wise Ones know that "Shaiel" was in fact Tigraine, or just a random wetlander. Also, does this mean that Rand has a legitimate claim to the Lion Throne? I know that women inherit the throne, but what happens if a queen dies with only a son? He'd marry someone, and their daughter would continue it, correct?

Edited by PatsNats28
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Do the Wise Ones know that "Shaiel" was in fact Tigraine, or just a random wetlander. Also, does this mean that Rand has a legitimate claim to the Lion Throne? I know that women inherit the throne, but what happens if a queen dies with only a son? He'd marry someone, and their daughter would continue it, correct?

 

It would most likely be a War of Succession, like when Trakand took the throne from Mantear after Mordrellens death, since the queen must be a descendant of Ishara. For example, if Elayne died before giving birth to a girl, Dyelin would most likely get the throne, while Gawyn would be free to go and be Egwenes Warder.

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Do the Wise Ones know that "Shaiel" was in fact Tigraine, or just a random wetlander. Also, does this mean that Rand has a legitimate claim to the Lion Throne? I know that women inherit the throne, but what happens if a queen dies with only a son? He'd marry someone, and their daughter would continue it, correct?

 

No, technically it would go to the nearest living female of Ishara's line--the problem is judging who that is--hence Wars of Succession. This is precisely what happened when Mordrellin dies. Mantear had only sons so the rule left their hands and went to Trakand (eventually).

 

A baby daughter can inherit, and presumably a baby granddaughter, but that would largely depend on the Great Houses being convinced that the girl would have an acceptable Regent. You have to remember even a Daughter Heir doesn't automatically gain the throne, she must be approved by the Great Houses--usually just a formality, but if she is dangerously incompetent or young, without a regent the throne will jump out of the House.

 

Either way a son would not attain the throne in the name of a theoretical daughter he may yet have.

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damn. that would be so cool if rand dumped elayne

 

except for the part where she's hot, but not really. if anyone, he should dump min, but they're all fine i suppose.

 

i can't see rand and avi having any sort of intimate relationship... the other two seem more "in love", if you know what i mean.

 

Aside from Moraine, Elmindrea is my favorite female protagonist.

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damn. that would be so cool if rand dumped elayne

 

except for the part where she's hot, but not really. if anyone, he should dump min, but they're all fine i suppose.

 

i can't see rand and avi having any sort of intimate relationship... the other two seem more "in love", if you know what i mean.

 

Aside from Moraine, Elmindrea is my favorite female protagonist.

 

Elmindrea? Never heard of her ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've always wondered whether Elayne knows of her familial connection with Rand. Anyone know?

 

No, but Elayne remarks once to Egwene (is it?) that Rand looks like the pictures of Tigraine she's seen. Egwene might figure it out, but there's no reason why she should think on it.

 

I would hope that Elayne would figure it out at some point, or that Rand will tell her. After all, if I recall correctly that makes him Galahad's half brother? And since he is a Whitecloak and Gawayne wants to kill him, there needs to be some sort of family disclosure.

 

Rand knows who his mother was, I'm sure others can work it out. These palaces will have people who trace lineage back for royal records, someone needs to get on the case! Rand is unusual looking becase of his heritage and most people don't know about Tam, so someone must be doing some digging somewhere.

 

I suppose what I really want is more loose ends tied up than not by the time the series ends. It's nice to wonder about things, but some things should also be resolved!!!!

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Since the toppic is Rand's kids I will post this here, as I have several other places, among others in a mail to BS:

 

I hope they get the genetics right. It is stated in the guide that channeling is a recissive trait. That means that we allready know that Rand's kids with El and Avi will be channelers. I hope they don't make a mistake on this in the books. As to eventual children by Min it's more in the blue, as we dont know if she's a carrier or not, but we know that all their children will be carriers of the gene. Simple Mendelian inheritance here. Probably the children will be very strong in the power as well being that both parents are stated as strong (but we don't know if strength is actually hereditary- see Morgase/Elayne as example).

 

By this genetic thinking we know that Gawyn must at least be a carrier (inherited from Morgase), but the question is their father. Was he just a carrier or was he actually able to channel/learn to channel (without anybody knowing). If he was a carrier, that puts Gawyn at a 50% of beeing a channeler. If he was able to learn/was a channeler, Gawyn has a potential to develop into a channeler really soon.

 

The genetics (for those of you that didn't pay attentinon during biology classes) are as follows (Capitals are dominant traits (not channeling) and small letters are recissive trait (channeling):

 

El/Avi: aa

Rand: bb

Children will in all combinations be: ab or ba (that is channelers)

 

Morgase: aa (can channel, altho very weak)

Taringail: Bb or bb

Children: El-ab (as we know she can channel)

Gaw-ab or aB (either carrier or full blown possible channeler)

 

We also knows that Galad has the possibility to be a channeler, but it's only a 25% chance if both Tigraine and Taringail were only carriers (much higher if one or both vere actually able to channel)(we know Rand is a channeler, so both must be- se reason for Tarangail above, Elayne being a channeler):

Tigraine: Aa or aa

Taringail: Bb or bb

Children (Galad): could be AA, Ab, aB or ab in the first scenario. Will be ab in all scenarios if the two last are correct. That puts him between 25% (first), 50% if one of the parents were actually able to (learn to) channel or 100% if both parents were able.

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First you've made the assumption channeling is attributed to one set of allels, secondly you're assuming it is the most simplistic version of genetics instead of a possible Incomplete, semi-dominance, or Co-dominance scenario. The phenotype of the channeling trait could be epistasis or possible be sex link dominant versus autosomal.

 

You've suggested a very simple perspective when it comes to channelers and it doesn't take into account those that will channel and those who need to be taught to learn... Nyneave versus Tuon.

<h3></h3>

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First you've made the assumption channeling is attributed to one set of allels, secondly you're assuming it is the most simplistic version of genetics instead of a possible Incomplete, semi-dominance, or Co-dominance scenario. The phenotype of the channeling trait could be epistasis or possible be sex link dominant versus autosomal.

 

You've suggested a very simple perspective when it comes to channelers and it doesn't take into account those that will channel and those who need to be taught to learn... Nyneave versus Tuon.

<h3></h3>

 

I actually stated to have used mendelsonian inheritancew (for simplisity). The conclusions still hold If everything you said is true. A ressisive trait would need the parents to have it on all alleles for it to show as a phenotype. So if you are a channeler, and it is a res. trait. All of the allelesw must be right. If it was dominant you would not need it to. Being that there were about 2-3% channelers in the old days makes it unlikely that it was very many alleles involved. I agree with you though on that what I wrote was simplistic, but that was to make a point. A codominant trait would be in direct contrast to a statement of it being recissive though.

 

I am sorry though, I can't find the quote in the guide, just abougt the percentage (maybe it was in a intervjuw with RJ I saw it). If it isn't stated anywhere- everything falls and I stand very much corrected (which I don't mind :-)). As to phenotype, I said something about it (Morgase- Elayne). I beleive the ones that have to be tought are just a different phenotype, not genotype. Probably several other modifying genes (like tails on dogs, you have one that regulates if it is born with a short or a full tail, but many that regulate how long the stump will be on the short tailed ones).

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First you've made the assumption channeling is attributed to one set of allels, secondly you're assuming it is the most simplistic version of genetics instead of a possible Incomplete, semi-dominance, or Co-dominance scenario. The phenotype of the channeling trait could be epistasis or possible be sex link dominant versus autosomal.

 

You've suggested a very simple perspective when it comes to channelers and it doesn't take into account those that will channel and those who need to be taught to learn... Nyneave versus Tuon.

<h3></h3>

 

I actually stated to have used mendelsonian inheritancew (for simplisity). The conclusions still hold If everything you said is true. A ressisive trait would need the parents to have it on all alleles for it to show as a phenotype. So if you are a channeler, and it is a res. trait. All of the allelesw must be right. If it was dominant you would not need it to. Being that there were about 2-3% channelers in the old days makes it unlikely that it was very many alleles involved. I agree with you though on that what I wrote was simplistic, but that was to make a point. A codominant trait would be in direct contrast to a statement of it being recissive though.

 

I am sorry though, I can't find the quote in the guide, just abougt the percentage (maybe it was in a intervjuw with RJ I saw it). If it isn't stated anywhere- everything falls and I stand very much corrected (which I don't mind :-)). As to phenotype, I said something about it (Morgase- Elayne). I beleive the ones that have to be tought are just a different phenotype, not genotype. Probably several other modifying genes (like tails on dogs, you have one that regulates if it is born with a short or a full tail, but many that regulate how long the stump will be on the short tailed ones).

RJ also created an "escape clause" when he said that channeling was linked to the soul as well as to genetics. If Rand's kids aren't soul, its simple enough ; they don't have channeler souls.

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