Kneeling to Elaida / Crystal Throne...

[Adamantus]

I just finished reading The Gathering Storm, and it occurred to me that it now seems impossible for Rand to kneel to ELaida, which she foretold in I forget which book. The prophecies also seem to indicated that Rand has to kneel before the Crystal Throne (which some people think will be Mat). But does anyone think that somehow Elaid will be tied up with that kneeling to the Crystal Throne (how, I don't know), now that she's with the Seanchan. It seems to only way for her foretelling to come true now.

[algspkr]

Elaida never foretold that Rand would kneel to her.  She said that he would face the Amerlyn's (sp?) anger.  I do not doubt that He will meet Egwene and she will be pissed.

 

The kneeling to the Crystal Throne prophecy is likely a corruption introduced by Ishameal.  Personally I think that if Rand does kneel to it, it will be Fortuna he kneels to and only to swear to fight the Dark One in an effort to get her to follow him.

[stoneface]

"Knowing the Amyrlin's anger" may or may not mean that Egwene is angry at Rand.  It may of may not mean that she is in a position to do anything.  It may not even involve a face to face meeting (although it is likely).

 

The Crystal Throne is a ter'angreal that inspires overwhelming awe of the person (channeler) sitting in it.  There is a lot of evidence that the Empress has been a channeler (the infighting weeds out non-channeling potential heirs, and non-imperial channelers are leashed). 

[yoniy0]

[...]the person (channeler) sitting in it.  There is a lot of evidence that the Empress has been a channeler (the infighting weeds out non-channeling potential heirs, and non-imperial channelers are leashed). 

Huh? This is the first I hear about it. Do you mind expounding?

[Aegnor]

I seem to remember Tuon saying she was tested, as everyone is, to see if she was a marath'domanae, and saying that if she would have tested positive she would have been collared and her name erased from the family history or whatever it was.

[yoniy0]

Of course she was tested. But that test only detects Sparkers. I was asking why stoneface considers it likely that the former Empress was a learner, like Tuon.

[CUBAREY]

The Crystal Throne is a ter'angreal that inspires overwhelming awe of the person (channeler) sitting in it. 

 

The "Crystal THrone" and the Amyrilin Seat both connote a physical throne and the person holding the seat. So both prophecies could reasonably be interpreted to mean kneeling in front of Fortuna and  feeling the wrath of Egwene.

[DPT24]

Personally though, I think people are really overthinking the Amyrlins anger thing, I mean, yeah, Elaida fortold that, but Elaida always ended up wrong about what she fortold, or at least interprted it wrong.  Prehaps Rand will meet Siuans anger, or mabye getting beat by Elaida's "ambassadors" was enough?  Or who knows, I mean, this is the person who thought she had fortold certian victory for herself...

[unlabled]

n/m

[Aegnor]

Of course she was tested. But that test only detects Sparkers. I was asking why stoneface considers it likely that the former Empress was a learner, like Tuon.

 

My reply was meant for stoneface.  I don't think the "all Empresses are channelers" idea holds water.  There is no evidence to support it, and tons of evidence that makes it unlikely.  And many Ter'Angreals from the AoL could be used by non-channlers.  There is no reason to believe that the Crystal Throne can't be used by a non-channeler.

[yoniy0]

Okay, we're in agreement, then.

[Lambada]

RJ has stated that the crystal Throne does not require channeling.

 

While 'not requiring channeling' does not strictly imply that the ability to channel is not necessary, the vast majority of ter'angreal seem to either require active channeling to work, or will work for anyone.

 

The only exceptions to this that I can think of are the a'dam / domination band.

 

Thus it is highly likely that the Crystal Throne will work for anyone - as active channeling would be detected almost immediately.

 

Interestingly, RJ has also said that Semihage (who caused the chaos in Seanchan) is immune to its effects. Which raises the question of how? And could Rand be immune?

[Aegnor]

Maybe an inverted weave of protection against its effects?  That would be my guess at least.  I'm sure she was aware of the Ter'Angreal beforehand.

[Tafarai]

Rand "faces the Amyrlin's rath" when he is captured, kidnapped, locked in a box and beaten day after day at the Amyrlin's (Elaida's) orders.

[Durinax]

Rand "faces the Amyrlin's rath" when he is captured, kidnapped, locked in a box and beaten day after day at the Amyrlin's (Elaida's) orders.

the fortelling about the amyrlins wrath is after that I believe

[algspkr]

Rand "faces the Amyrlin's rath" when he is captured, kidnapped, locked in a box and beaten day after day at the Amyrlin's (Elaida's) orders.

the fortelling about the amyrlins wrath is after that I believe

It was anger not wrath, and know not face.  And foretellings are about the future, when Elaida had this one Rand had already escaped.

[Sharaman]

RJ has stated that the crystal Throne does not require channeling.

 

---

Interestingly, RJ has also said that Semihage (who caused the chaos in Seanchan) is immune to its effects. Which raises the question of how? And could Rand be immune?

 

Can you quote references to either of these statements?

[deathgate]

Concerning whether Tuon's mother had any ability isn't it thought it is somewhat inherited? If so she the gene is in her family somewhere. Could Tuon have actually channelled unknowingly like Rand with Bella giving her an advantage over her sisters?

[KefkaPalazzo]

Well, she appears to know quite a bit about channeling itself.  Witness the scene where Mat says/does something to piss off one of the Sul'dam after she captures one of the AS in KoD.

 

The weave falls apart when it makes contact with Mat, Tuon sees it.  She recognizes it for what it is, and knows that there is something very wrong about the weave just falling apart like that.  Most importantly, she has the potential to be (at bare minimum) stronger than Morgase, since she can see the weaves, while Morgase barely can.

 

As far as deathgate's question, I'm not too sure.  The only way channeling could possibly have helped is some form of Compulsion, which, while it is a commonly learned trick on the mainland, usually by daughters manipulating their parents (mentioned in Verin's interrogation session in CoS, I believe), would see very little use in the very rigid structure of Seanchan, even less so for a daughter of the royal family.  Also, we don't know exactly what it would take to gain the CT.  What did Tuon do to gain her mother's favor over the firstborn, traditionally (in our world) the heir of the family (remember in TGH, Tuon is the second daughter)?

[Lambada]

RJ has stated that the crystal Throne does not require channeling.

 

---

Interestingly, RJ has also said that Semihage (who caused the chaos in Seanchan) is immune to its effects. Which raises the question of how? And could Rand be immune?

 

Can you quote references to either of these statements?

Sure thing - straight from the Theoryland interview database:

https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_79cz3vmjhc

Search with Ctrl-F for "Crystal" the quotes are the second and third results.

[Sharaman]

@Lambada - thanks.

[Juggler]

Not surprised it's a ter'angreal - I'm sure there is mention of a "Large chair made of some kind of crystal or glass" in Rhuidean when Matt and Rand first go down there. I know there was a chair of soome kind Think it was crystal mentioned just before the redstone doorway. think in book 4 I just re-read it and am sure it is mentioned.

 

 

[Deadsy]

That prophecy is the most misquoted portion of the Wheel of Time and it's annoying 'cause it makes people hate Egwene more.

 

I've seen it as "the DR kneels to the Amyrlin" dozens of times.

[Juggler]

aha also mentioned in The Fires of Heaven on page 368 - Red Crystal chair - wonder if this is like the crystal throne...

[yoniy0]

That's possible. One other option that was suggested is that it's a Binding Chair, a ter'angreal which binds non-channelers the way an OR does for channelers. Sammael mentioned something of the sort to Sevanna (if you choose to believe him or not is your own decision).