What's up with all the hate for book 10?

[Bowden]

I'm just curious. I thought the book was pretty good. It seems obvious to me that RJ was bringing the 3 other major groups into the ta'veren fold or taking care of them, and he couldn't to that in one book.

 

Pretty much every major group except the Shaido, the Prophets group, and the Seanchan were under Rand's control or defeated. (AS are their own beast lol) So we see Mat finally meeting the DotNM, Perrin with the Prophet under his eye (mostly), and the brains of the Shaido all in one place. Oh, and also Andor getting taken care of (the only nation that Rand won't have to intimidate for help).

 

First Mat: You really didn't expect him just to get married without any other interaction between him and his wife did you? We learned a lot about Tuon, what she was like, and that she'd be the Empress.

 

Perrin: Hunting the Shaido, Morgase actually being found her countrymen (yeah, I know, tell a Two Rivers man that and get laughed at :P ), Berelain finally coming to her senses about Perrin... mostly lol.

 

So in book 10 we see the setup for making inroads with the Seanchan, and the destruction of the Shaido and the Prophet. Not to mention all the juicy little AS/Asha'man tidbits. Plus, 3 ta'veren in 3 different parts of Randland, working their mojo where it's needed.

 

From what I can gather, a lot of people would have preferred "Mat and Perrin did some stuff. Mat got married and Perrin rescued Faile after she got captured." The End

 

Wow, I guess that sounds kind of elitist, but it's just my opinion, no disrespect meant :)

[mossman87]

None taken.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Personally, I liked it aswell.

 

However, I think the dislike (I think hatred is too strong a word for it) is because most people that found it annoying were the ones who read the books when they came out.

 

So, they had just read Winters Heart, ending with a masssive climax, possibly the most momentous occasions in the Series, the one event that  basically changed everything, the cleansing of Saidin.

 

Then, it was a year or 2 wait till CoT, which doesnt have much in the way of plot advancement, its a lot of filler (necessary, but not the kind of thing you wait for)

 

Theennn, after reading CoT, where little plot advancement took place, there was another few years of waiting for KoD.

 

Taken from  that perspective, you can see how it would be annoying and you could dislike the book.

 

 

However, for me, comming across the series in 2008, I read all of the 3 (WH, CoT, KoD) in relatively quick sucession, and I had no particular problems with it. And re-reading CoT i like it even more.

[Arath Faringal]

I know my reaction was something along the lines of, "Mr. Jordan, you forgot the part where something happens!"

 

Too many adjectives, not enough verbs.

[Luckers]

Book 10 is slow, but you must remember the plot in it was originally the first part of KoD. Like tPoD with Winter's Heart, if you read it as the first half of a larger book its fine, imo.

[Sagacious Lu]

Personally, I liked it aswell.

 

However, I think the dislike (I think hatred is too strong a word for it) is because most people that found it annoying were the ones who read the books when they came out.

 

So, they had just read Winters Heart, ending with a masssive climax, possibly the most momentous occasions in the Series, the one event that  basically changed everything, the cleansing of Saidin.

 

Then, it was a year or 2 wait till CoT, which doesnt have much in the way of plot advancement, its a lot of filler (necessary, but not the kind of thing you wait for)

 

Theennn, after reading CoT, where little plot advancement took place, there was another few years of waiting for KoD.

 

Taken from  that perspective, you can see how it would be annoying and you could dislike the book.

 

This nails it as far as I'm concerned.  CoT had a lot of interesting things in it but it doesn't have any truly memorable moments, and nothing dramatically advances the story.  For the most part it read like a lot miscellaneous details that HAD to be there to set up the rest of the story.  It's kind of hard to stomach 700 pages of "set up" when you've been waiting a year or two, especially when know you have at least that long again before you get more.  It only makes it worse that it followed the (jaw dropping) cleansing of Saidin.  It's a lot easier to be philosophical if you don't have to wait for it though; I enjoyed it more when rereading it for that reason.  What the hell, if I wanted my entertainment slickly packaged for effortless mass-consumption I'd get rid of my bookshelves (which would create A LOT of room in my home) and start watching TV :-p

[The Fisher King]

Mr Bowden,

 

I also am fond of this book. Is it in the BOTTOM third of the books in the series for me? Yes. But, imo, it is still a GOOD Boook. ... Is it a bit ''dryer'' or slower-seeming than the others and by effect sometimes tedious or even a bit irritating? Yes to this question as well, imo. These are specific and valid criticisms of the book imo ... But, OVERALL, it is still a Good Book.

 

Here is what I said about this book just the other day:

 

In the years since its initial release and my initial horrid first impression, my affection for this work has slowly - and grudgingly - increased. ... The truth is, imo, from a technical aspect, I felt like COT was the most well-written book since FOH. The font was reduced again (After the HUGE print size of WH and COS), which means we got a longer book that the previous three, and its the ONLY one of my paperbacks that did not almost immedialtely have the binding and the cover fall off ... Also, it is a bit cool because RJ dared to experiment with it a bit structurally, and while that was not completely succesful, it was kind of cool - especially in the beginning getting to see the rapidly shifting perspectives to what what occuring concurrently at the end of WH ... Most negative reviews of this book stem from issues with the content - the plot, mainly that it is BORING ... I still agree with this ... HOWEVER, there are still a few precious gems scattered throughout it that actually make up some of my very favorite moments from the entire series to date ... SPOILERS ...SPOILERS...They Include:

 

1 Mat shooting an unarmed woman in the back.

 

2 Perrin chopping that guys hand off.

 

3 The introduction of Rodel Itulrade

 

4 The early stages of The Mat/Tuon Courtship

 

5 A Bashere POV.

 

Too few a diamonds in the the overall rough that is COT? Definitely. But, COT is not the overall complete loss many claim it to be ... JMO.

 

Fish

[Sagacious Lu]

2 Perrin chopping that guys hand off.Fish

 

Agreed, I need to amend my claim that nothing truly memorable happened because this scene was wonderfully nasty.

[Bowden]

However, I think the dislike (I think hatred is too strong a word for it) is because most people that found it annoying were the ones who read the books when they came out.

 

So, they had just read Winters Heart, ending with a masssive climax, possibly the most momentous occasions in the Series, the one event that  basically changed everything, the cleansing of Saidin.

 

Then, it was a year or 2 wait till CoT, which doesnt have much in the way of plot advancement, its a lot of filler (necessary, but not the kind of thing you wait for)

 

Theennn, after reading CoT, where little plot advancement took place, there was another few years of waiting for KoD.

 

Taken from  that perspective, you can see how it would be annoying and you could dislike the book.

 

I can see that point. :)  I guess I'm just easy to please :P

 

Mr Bowden,

 

I also am fond of this book. Is it in the BOTTOM third of the books in the series for me? Yes. But, imo, it is still a GOOD Boook. ... Is it a bit ''dryer'' or slower-seeming than the others and by effect sometimes tedious or even a bit irritating? Yes to this question as well, imo. These are specific and valid criticisms of the book imo ... But, OVERALL, it is still a Good Book.

 

Here is what I said about this book just the other day:

 

In the years since its initial release and my initial horrid first impression, my affection for this work has slowly - and grudgingly - increased. ... The truth is, imo, from a technical aspect, I felt like COT was the most well-written book since FOH. The font was reduced again (After the HUGE print size of WH and COS), which means we got a longer book that the previous three, and its the ONLY one of my paperbacks that did not almost immedialtely have the binding and the cover fall off ... Also, it is a bit cool because RJ dared to experiment with it a bit structurally, and while that was not completely succesful, it was kind of cool - especially in the beginning getting to see the rapidly shifting perspectives to what what occuring concurrently at the end of WH ... Most negative reviews of this book stem from issues with the content - the plot, mainly that it is BORING ... I still agree with this ... HOWEVER, there are still a few precious gems scattered throughout it that actually make up some of my very favorite moments from the entire series to date ... SPOILERS ...SPOILERS...They Include:

 

1 Mat shooting an unarmed woman in the back.

 

2 Perrin chopping that guys hand off.

 

3 The introduction of Rodel Itulrade

 

4 The early stages of The Mat/Tuon Courtship

 

5 A Bashere POV.

 

Too few a diamonds in the the overall rough that is COT? Definitely. But, COT is not the overall complete loss many claim it to be ... JMO.

 

Fish

 

I agree with this too. And I lol'd @ "Mr. Bowden" XD

[Fains nose]

On reading this thread im reminded that a few important and memoral things happened in CoT, but that doesnt change the fact that the book is largely hard to read due to boringness, and that just isnt good enough in something that is meant to be entertainment. I am really dissapointed to hear of people skipping parts and i wouldnt do this my self, but at the same time, thats not good enough to have whole sections of a book unreadable to fans of that book. I think maybe it could of been skipped and the good parts fused on to WH or KoD, but overall, this series is just great, and i dont care if 1 book out of 12 isnt that good, i still really enjoy this series

[Duskfire]

I just think its terribly boring. I've reread the series since CoT came out and to me there is a noticable difference in excitement between CoT and the rest of the series. It was a mistake to have half the book dedicated to characters talking about what happened at the Cleansing; it was awesome to see the confusion and once again a display of the lack of communication, but the reader knows what happened. We don't need to be reminded on a constant basis.

 

Its just slow, plods along. Also, its only the second book in the series that doesn't have a pretty major battle in it (the first being TDR.) And I don't need battles, but when theres hardly any excitement at all, its just blergh. For a world that is on the verge of dying, all the characters just go along slowly. Too slowly.

 

I will never skip parts of it, because there are details that are pretty important. But that doesn't stop me from thinking its so insanely boring compared to the others. Each to their own though; am glad some enjoy it.

[Val Mickey]

The two must be as one.

[Crael123]

i just reread it. i liked mat perrin and rand parts. and BT parts. egwene and elayne i just skip over