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male ter'angreal


Kal Logan
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I am not sure if this is a mistake or a typo, but I have just read in TSR that there are two male sa'angreal stronger than Callandor.

 

Lanfear grimaces at Callandor and says;

"There are only two more powerful that a man can use"1

 

It is obvious that one of these is the Choeden Kal (sp?).  Which is the other?

 

1  The Shadow Rising, ch. 9, 'Decisions', page 174 (Orbit, 1993).

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I am not sure if this is a mistake or a typo, but I have just read in TSR that there are two male ter'angreal stronger than Callandor.

 

Lanfear grimaces at Callandor and says;

"There are only two more powerful that a man can use"1

 

It is obvious that one of these is the Choeden Kal (sp?).  Which is the other?

 

1  The Shadow Rising, ch. 9, 'Decisions', page 174 (Orbit, 1993).

 

Firstly, it's sa'angreal, not ter'angreal. Secondly we don't know what the other powerful male sa'angreal is. Most likely it was destroyed--Aes Sedai made an active effort to destroy all male angreal and sa'angreal. I doubt we'll see it in the series.

 

Ring of Tamyrlin.

 

This is incredibly unlikely. Why would the Aes Sedai have a male sa'angreal as a symbol of an office that woman could (and frequently did) fill?

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I am not sure if this is a mistake or a typo, but I have just read in TSR that there are two male ter'angreal stronger than Callandor.

 

Lanfear grimaces at Callandor and says;

"There are only two more powerful that a man can use"1

 

It is obvious that one of these is the Choeden Kal (sp?).  Which is the other?

 

1  The Shadow Rising, ch. 9, 'Decisions', page 174 (Orbit, 1993).

 

Firstly, it's sa'angreal, not ter'angreal. Secondly we don't know what the other powerful male sa'angreal is. Most likely it was destroyed--Aes Sedai made an active effort to destroy all male angreal and sa'angreal. I doubt we'll see it in the series.

 

Ring of Tamyrlin.

 

This is incredibly unlikely. Why would the Aes Sedai have a male sa'angreal as a symbol of an office that woman could (and frequently did) fill?

 

 

Because the first Amyrlin was male. The office is also named after him. The whole establishment of the Tower was created and built up around him. The ring was the source of his physical power.

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It's Taim's moustache.

 

That's not entirely correct. Taim's moustache is Demandred. Demandreds hawkish nose is the sa'angreal.

 

Because the first Amyrlin was male. The office is also named after him. The whole establishment of the Tower was created and built up around him. The ring was the source of his physical power.

 

Nope.

 

Firstly, the leader of the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends was called the First Amongst Servants, not Amyrlin (or, so far as we know, Tamyrlin).

 

Secondly, Tamyrlin is cited as the first channeler, not the first leader of the Aes Sedai. There is no indication as to whether this figure was male or female.

 

Thirdly, the Tower is a Third Age construct. Tamyrlin lived at the end of the First Age or the very beginning of the Second. The Tower was created and built around the goals and missions of the fourtain ajah that met in alliance to create Tar Valon after the Breaking. Around two hundred years later this had formalized into the Seven Ajah known today, likely an influence of the power of the seven ajah leaders who became the first Amyrlin's council.

 

Fourthly, a sa'angreal is not a source of physical power. The Age of Legends Aes Sedai paid no particular mind to strength in the power. If weaving something required a strong channeler, they'd still call on the most skillful channeler of relevent strength, but far more likely if there were a weaker channeler with greater skill, they'd simply form a circle to supplement that channelers skill.

 

It was achievement, not strength, that earmarked authority in the Age of Legends.

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It's Taim's moustache.

 

That's not entirely correct. Taim's moustache is Demandred. Demandreds hawkish nose is the sa'angreal.

 

Because the first Amyrlin was male. The office is also named after him. The whole establishment of the Tower was created and built up around him. The ring was the source of his physical power.

 

Nope.

 

Firstly, the leader of the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends was called the First Amongst Servants, not Amyrlin (or, so far as we know, Tamyrlin).

 

Secondly, Tamyrlin is cited as the first channeler, not the first leader of the Aes Sedai. There is no indication as to whether this figure was male or female.

 

Thirdly, the Tower is a Third Age construct. Tamyrlin lived at the end of the First Age or the very beginning of the Second. The Tower was created and built around the goals and missions of the fourtain ajah that met in alliance to create Tar Valon after the Breaking. Around two hundred years later this had formalized into the Seven Ajah known today, likely an influence of the power of the seven ajah leaders who became the first Amyrlin's council.

 

Fourthly, a sa'angreal is not a source of physical power. The Age of Legends Aes Sedai paid no particular mind to strength in the power. If weaving something required a strong channeler, they'd still call on the most skillful channeler of relevent strength, but far more likely if there were a weaker channeler with greater skill, they'd simply form a circle to supplement that channelers skill.

 

It was achievement, not strength, that earmarked authority in the Age of Legends.

 

Well then you answered your own question. He was the first channeler, it makes sense they would have the sa'angreal of the first channeler as the symbol of their establishment. I mean they named the highest office after him, what is a small ring compared to that?

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Firstly, it's sa'angreal, not ter'angreal. Secondly we don't know what the other powerful male sa'angreal is. Most likely it was destroyed--Aes Sedai made an active effort to destroy all male angreal and sa'angreal. I doubt we'll see it in the series.

 

 

Damn you, you pedant!!!  :)

 

I will change it asap.  Thanks

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Well then you answered your own question. He was the first channeler, it makes sense they would have the sa'angreal of the first channeler as the symbol of their establishment. I mean they named the highest office after him, what is a small ring compared to that?

 

You didn't read my post, did you? Tamyrlin was the first channeler, and there's no confirmation Tamyrlin was male or female. They DID NOT name the highest office after Tamyrlin, they made Tamyrlin's ring a symbol of that office.

 

And, sa'angreal of the first channeler? Tamyrlin would've been a wilder, what on earth leads you to expect he/she'd be able to create a sa'angreal?

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Well then you answered your own question. He was the first channeler, it makes sense they would have the sa'angreal of the first channeler as the symbol of their establishment. I mean they named the highest office after him, what is a small ring compared to that?

 

You didn't read my post, did you? Tamyrlin was the first channeler, and there's no confirmation Tamyrlin was male or female. They DID NOT name the highest office after Tamyrlin, they made Tamyrlin's ring a symbol of that office.

 

And, sa'angreal of the first channeler? Tamyrlin would've been a wilder, what on earth leads you to expect he/she'd be able to create a sa'angreal?

 

 

Wilders have managed many things.

 

I base this more off the fact that Tamyrlin is a corruption of Merlyn the wizard, who was male. Why make an allusion to a mythical figure and change its sex? Its nonsensical, especially since we know RJ did the same with other Arthurian figures such as Galad, Gawyn, etc..

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It's Taim's moustache.

 

That's not entirely correct. Taim's moustache is Demandred. Demandreds hawkish nose is the sa'angreal.

 

 

I bow to your superior knowledge of the material. I am but a wet match to your bonfire of knowledge.

 

 

Why couldn't he change the sex if even was making an allusion to Merlin (I prefer this spelling)? All the other allusions to Arthurian figures aren't exactly carbon copies. Heck does Gawayn's power wax and wan with the sun?

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I don't doubt it's also an allusion to Tamyrlin. The name and the fact that he was a powerful "wizard" of sorts with being the first to possess access to the OP, makes it a very fitting choice.

 

1. Who says he's powerful? For all you know Tamyrlin died of lack of training, the first of many, given three in four die and 3% of the population can channel (death toll today would equal 180 million), and the First Amongst Servants wore his/her ring as a sign that such a tragedy should never happen again.

 

2. Who says he's a man? You say Tamyrlin must be a man because it links with Merlin. Then you say you are sure Tamyrlin is an allusion to Merlin because he is a man. That's fallacious logic.

 

 

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I always thought he's a woman.  ;D

 

Because women mature earlier than men, so the first wilder should be a female.

 

 

Biologically men are more prone to mutation then women. This has to do with the structure of the y chromosome versus the more stable/larger X chromosome. It's why men suffer more diseases and genetic defects than women. So it would make sense from a biological perspective if the first such mutation took place in males. Not absolute, but definitely more likely.

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How? The Amyrlin is only always female now because Aes Sedai are all female.

 

The first leader was called Tamyrlin. That person had a ring which became the symbol of office (The Ring of Tamyrlin). Over time the name Tamyrlin was corrupted/ evolved into The Amyrlin as the leader. Quite possible considering the White Tower (and thus the position of Amyrlin) was not created until after the Breaking. Nothing in this indicates gender at all.

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I'm pretty sure LTT used callandor to seal the bore, place the seals.  Maybe he used Callandor because the more powerful one was lost like the access keys and only found later.  I hope we at least find out what the sa'angreal is or was, someone should ask Brandon.

Personally, I think it was stupid to destroy the male CK, at least until after TG, even if TG is a metaphysical struggle, there's still a whole blightful and more full of all kinds of Shadowspawn.

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