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Moiraine and The Eye of the World


algspkr
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I just finished TEotW, after reading NS, and I came up with a couple of questions about Moiraine's history between these two books. 

-Why did Moiraine go to the Eye in her quest to find Rand?

-Why didn't Lan go with her?

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I just finished TEotW, after reading NS, and I came up with a couple of questions about Moiraine's history between these two books. 

-Why did Moiraine go to the Eye in her quest to find Rand?

-Why didn't Lan go with her?

I wonder if RJ meant to cover that in one of the other prequel novels he planned?

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Wasn't it said the Eye of the World wasn't used for its intended purpose?

 

As far as I remember, it was Someshta (the green Man) who was not used for his intended purpose.

 

I've always thought that it would've been cool to have Moiraine learn about the 'People of the Dragon' from Someshta, and influence Rand to go to Rhuidean. Can't see him giving her any other info (relevent to TEOTW) other than what he was protecting (which would ruin the 'surprise'...

 

Guess it didn't work out that way.

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Wasn't it said the Eye of the World wasn't used for its intended purpose?

 

As far as I remember, it was Someshta (the green Man) who was not used for his intended purpose.

 

Moiraine indeed says that the primarily role of the Eye of the World might not be the role they thought it would be used for in the first place. As it is the first book, it could be understood many way, but I think it could be interpreted in the way that Moiraine thought it would be the way to the last battle, but only found what was needed for the Pattern to herald the coming of the Drago, i.e. the greatest need of the world. I just reread those chapters and thought about the way Leigh Butler thought about it in her WoT re-read, and thought this.

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Honestly, I can't remember her saying that, but that might just be bad memory. I honestly thought the idea that Rand using the well to destroy the Trolloc army wasn't the intended purpose, was a forum suggestion, not Moiraine's.

 

But like I said, it's been a while and I'm not getting any younger  :)

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It was made by Aes Sedai during the Breaking. Ishamael probably would have known about it. We just don't know why he cared. Likely he knew what was hidden inside - or that something was and that it was related to the Dragon Reborn. He was manipulating events to put Rand into a position that would require his use of Saidin and what would force it more than being exposed to a giant pool of it? Once started, Rand would not be able to stop channeling. Of course, Rand was channeling before then anyway..

 

We don't know how Rand was supposed to use the Eye of the World but it did make a good protection for the dragon banner and Horn of Valere which seem to be tied together and meant to be used during the Last Battle, so whatever its use we can be reasonably sure the pool of Saidin would have been meant to dissipate before that time. It's also likely that its sole purpose was to provide a barrier against any but the Dragon touching it, and to keep the corruption off that spot of land and give it its other-wordly properties (never in the same place, uses TAR's "need" to get to it). It hid three items of major importance where the soul detection shield on Callandor only protected a very good sa'angreal.

 

Moiraine was on the greatest quest the world didn't know about - finding the baby dragon. She would have explored any possibility for information. She would also have known that the Eye of the World was a place formed during the Breaking and that would point to the Dragon Reborn. I doubt she would have left happy, though, given the Green Man's current state.

 

Does it say anywhere that Lan didn't go with her? I know he's left out during the introduction of the Green Man in Eye of the World, but I doubt he'd have left her alone in the Blight. It's possible she left him behind because one could find the Eye of the World easier than two. She must have entered the Blight with the place in mind because it's unlikely any babies would be carried there and that's what she was searching for.

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Does it say anywhere that Lan didn't go with her? I know he's left out during the introduction of the Green Man in Eye of the World, but I doubt he'd have left her alone in the Blight. It's possible she left him behind because one could find the Eye of the World easier than two. She must have entered the Blight with the place in mind because it's unlikely any babies would be carried there and that's what she was searching for.

 

Here is another possible rationale for leaving Lan behind, if indeed she did so ... the key to finding the Green Man's place was need.  Going in alone, risking the Blight by herself, would certainly have increased her need.  It is the sort of tactical risk that Moiraine is more than capable of making, and though I cannot remember the reference, I seem to recall Lan commenting once on how he had had to watch Moiraine walk into danger where he could not follow  Admittedly, that is a generic enough statement (and unreferenced at that!) to mean anything, but it would fit here, if my memory serves ...

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Does it say anywhere that Lan didn't go with her? I know he's left out during the introduction of the Green Man in Eye of the World, but I doubt he'd have left her alone in the Blight. It's possible she left him behind because one could find the Eye of the World easier than two. She must have entered the Blight with the place in mind because it's unlikely any babies would be carried there and that's what she was searching for.

 

Here is another possible rationale for leaving Lan behind, if indeed she did so ... the key to finding the Green Man's place was need.  Going in alone, risking the Blight by herself, would certainly have increased her need.  It is the sort of tactical risk that Moiraine is more than capable of making, and though I cannot remember the reference, I seem to recall Lan commenting once on how he had had to watch Moiraine walk into danger where he could not follow  Admittedly, that is a generic enough statement (and unreferenced at that!) to mean anything, but it would fit here, if my memory serves ...

 

I could have been before she had Lan.

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Did Moiraine know about the Dragon Banner and the Horn being at the EoTW, seeing as she'd been there before? I doubt it, but there's more than a possibility that she suspected that (considering all the Hunting going on in the thousands of years since) the Horn, at least, was there, and that the Dragon would need it at TG (if not before, as we saw in TDR).

 

Maybe her purpose for going there initially was to see if the Green Man could provide more specific info on the workings of the Pattern, in order to devise a more likely location for the Dragon?

 

My recollection of this whole thing is vague, too  :-[

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Did Moiraine know about the Dragon Banner and the Horn being at the EoTW, seeing as she'd been there before? I doubt it, but there's more than a possibility that she suspected that (considering all the Hunting going on in the thousands of years since) the Horn, at least, was there, and that the Dragon would need it at TG (if not before, as we saw in TDR).

 

Maybe her purpose for going there initially was to see if the Green Man could provide more specific info on the workings of the Pattern, in order to devise a more likely location for the Dragon?

 

My recollection of this whole thing is vague, too  :-[

 

I thought it had something to do with dreams and what a trolloc said.

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Does it say anywhere that Lan didn't go with her? I know he's left out during the introduction of the Green Man in Eye of the World, but I doubt he'd have left her alone in the Blight. It's possible she left him behind because one could find the Eye of the World easier than two. She must have entered the Blight with the place in mind because it's unlikely any babies would be carried there and that's what she was searching for.

 

Here is another possible rationale for leaving Lan behind, if indeed she did so ... the key to finding the Green Man's place was need.  Going in alone, risking the Blight by herself, would certainly have increased her need.  It is the sort of tactical risk that Moiraine is more than capable of making, and though I cannot remember the reference, I seem to recall Lan commenting once on how he had had to watch Moiraine walk into danger where he could not follow  Admittedly, that is a generic enough statement (and unreferenced at that!) to mean anything, but it would fit here, if my memory serves ...

 

I could have been before she had Lan.

 

Her life story from late Accepted to bonding Lan is in New Spring, I don't think she went there before she was an Aes Sedai.

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Moiraine says at the Eye that there is in the pool of saidin the power to mend the seal, or break them definitely. As the events went, saidin has been used and the horn of Valere and the Dragon banner as well as one of the seal were found in the bottom of the pool. So the use Moiraine thought the Eye had was not the same as the use the AoL Aes Sedai who made it thought it would have. They did it to herald the Dragon, as the banner is the very thing that shows the coming of an army, and the horn of Valere anouncing the coming of the Last Battle, so the coming of the Dragon Reborn to fight it.

 

Everything made during the breaking was in foreshadowing of the Last Battle. The Stone of Tear for Callandor, the *angreals in Rhuidean and the task set to the da'shain Aiels, the Eye of the World. The question remains about why Ishy sent them there. The Dark One need the Dragon Reborn to win. So he made what was necessary for his coming.

 

He sent them to the Eye, printed herons in Rand's hands, was defeated in the sky at Falme, in the Stone, and saving Rand's life as Moridin in Shadar Logoth. That's why he us speaking of playing both part in his sha'ra game for the capture of the Fisher King.

 

So to come back to the question of Moiraine going there twice, there is the question of how in the hell did she discovered Tam's name and career in the Compagnions of Illian... just by hearsay? 

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I think she learnt something there about the nature of the Last Battle and the fight against the shadow, and thats why Rand needs her to win the LB(mins viewing) it seems realy sus that there is no mention of the eye of the world in the series at all after the actual book. I think the only mention of it was in the golden krane chapter of KoD, pg 430. Lan makes an offhand reference to it "In the Trolloc Wars, the Shadow used Tarwin's Gap to move large numbers of Trollocs, just as it did a few years back, when we sought the Eye of the World." i think this comment was foreshadowing for Moiraines return with info about what she learnt at the Eye.

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I was always confused about Moraine going to the Eye twice.

 

kind of off topic but I was just reading the scene at the Blight and the Eye last night....It's common knowedge that Rand channeled three times before the eye, and I've seen mention of the thougth that he may have channeled to bring the eye to them.

 

I think he did.

 

Not only that, I think he almost burned himself out doing it.

 

His skin felt afire...but then he started feeling pinpricks of pain on his skin.  Isn't this how women describe drawing almost to much of the power?  Then the void shatters.

 

Isn't there another time when the void breaks apart and rand thinks "that has never happened before".  I'm almost certain there was, but I don't remember when...

 

That would certainly explain how Moraine could find it again and Someshta's surprise that she could.

 

Anyhow, after reading that again I'm convinced Rand channeled there for the fourth time, and it took a hell of a lot of the power to do it.

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I've just had a look at that part, and I think you're right - Rand's chest feels tight, his skin stings in hot pinpricks, he seeks the void but it keeps breaking up, shattering into painful shreds. And all the while he's scared. He's 'never felt so afraid'. He Needs to find the Eye. And he does, or it finds him!

 

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Yeah! I went rereading it and it fits nicely! And couldn't the shattering of the void be the Power Acquiering Syndrome (or something like that) that every wilder face when channeling on his own? I remember the crises beeing more and more close to the actual channeling the more you do it. But then it seems he maneged since he found the Eye.

 

Doesn't he have the same feeling when channeling from the Eye? He almost burned himself then no? 

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Ishy sent them there to use the pool so it couldnt be used to seal the DO (cause then only that pool would be tainted)

 

Moraine likely uncovered somethign about the eye of the world and the dragon while doing research into finding the dragon and had to investigate.

 

and channelling yourself into the eye is possible since Aginor and bethamel did so.

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and channelling yourself into the eye is possible since Aginor and bethamel did so.

Possible, but not necessary in this case.  The Eye showed up before the Mountains of Dhoom (which has never happened before, apparently) right as Rand was about to turn back to face the Worms, because he was so afraid of what was coming.  I think it showed up just then because the world needed the Dragon Reborn not to die in a fight with a Wormpack (sorry, I can't remember their Old Tongue name).

 

There is another interesting question.  Moiraine tells Agelmar that one person seeking glory would make it impossible for them to find the Eye; and yet, she is confident that they will not be forbidden by the fact that she has been there before, because the need in this case is so great.  If the need of the place is so great that one of the rules no longer applies, why not another?

 

Another point: On the one hand, the Dragon was almost surely supposed to get his banner before the Last Battle, so the Eye cannot have been intended to be used in the Last Battle.  On the other hand, if its sole purpose were to guard the objects, then a pool of saidin is surely not the most efficient way to accomplish this.  Surely there was some way of concealing those objects that did not require its makers to die.  So what was the intended use?  Or was it just made because prophecy said it must be, without any knowledge of why, exactly, it must?

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We have to remember that RJ intended to write more in the series following New Spring. Perhaps all of these questions we're asking about Moraine visiting twice (and the whereabouts of Lan) is all wrapped up in an ~adventure~ to one of the Borderlands in search of The Dragon Reborn. Who knows - Maybe Trollocs separated them or maybe since Lan is such a bamf he created some sort of diversion while Moraine was in search of The Green Man for hopes of answers concerning Rands whereabouts and that's why there is no mention of Lan visiting twice. =P

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and channelling yourself into the eye is possible since Aginor and bethamel did so.

Possible, but not necessary in this case.  The Eye showed up before the Mountains of Dhoom (which has never happened before, apparently) right as Rand was about to turn back to face the Worms, because he was so afraid of what was coming.  I think it showed up just then because the world needed the Dragon Reborn not to die in a fight with a Wormpack (sorry, I can't remember their Old Tongue name).

 

 

If you read that section again you'll see that probably is the case.  Nowhere does it say the eye shows up because of what the world needs, it shows up with the need of whoever seeks it.  Which fits in nice with the channelling aspect, because when a person begins to channel, it usually happens because the need something more that they ever have before.  If you see the three previous times Rand channelled, he was desparate, and the internal dialouge is the same as it is just before the eye shows up.

 

Moraine probably just trusted that the pattern would allow her into the eye a second time rather that allow the world to perish.

 

The thing about the void shattering is really bugging me.  Ther is another time where it shatters like Glass and Rand think…whoa that has never happened before.  It describes the shards of the void sliceing into him causing pain and stuff.  I want to say it was when he was fighting turak, but I could be way off.  If anyone can find or remembers that part it would help me stop going nuts trying to remember when it happened.

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IdealSeek suggests these:

 

 

 

A Crown of Swords

 

Chapter 41

 

saidin and the Void shattering

 

 

 

The Shadow Rising

 

Chapter 58

 

acknowledging anger would shatter the Void

 

The Path of Daggers

 

Chapter 2

 

to shatter the void that contained him

 

Can't look myself just now sorry, I'm supposed to be cooking  ;)

 

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