[DPR Mafia] Suras 4 - Mafia wins!

[Alys Kinch]

How could i hide it barms? i was not given bonda in my role pm. your "viewing" was wrong. Like I said. someone else check it.

 

@ Lily, I don't add names to quotes partly because i am lazy, mostly for a better reason. it helps to ensure people actually pay attention. the words are important, more than the person. quote only ensure attention to content. who is meta until you know how you feel about the post. a good example is talya. she always calls me out as mafia despite how rare it is for me to be. we always get into a tiff regardless.

 

@ talya, about hiding things. you rushed to defend meesh who i accused if hiding things. you made it seem as if it was inconsequential when really, it was helpful even if it had already been said (did meesh miss it?). barms said it a while back and i suggested it when i accused meesh. don't know how they would all work, but i know i have seen several. it weren't no secret.

 

@ meesh, if you are hiding info, don't hint at it. that way no one digs at the hint. the whole point of the game is to dig at secrets to find the most and best info to make the best choices for your team. that makes it grating for you to tell me not to dig! it's the whole point!

 

you say i am suspicious because i tried to find info... maybe i am looking at it too logically, but when someone else is hiding info, i don't know if it's good or bad or helpful or not. so how do i know not to dig? who it will help? again, hide secrets fully away.

[Al Jenn Mael]

No Alys dear, I'm not a liar. Thats the result I got back on you when I viewed you. You are Bonda Perrada. The fact that you're trying to hide it just convinces me that you are in fact scum.

 

How could i hide it barms? i was not given bonda in my role pm. your "viewing" was wrong. Like I said. someone else check it.

 

Looks like we have two conflicting statements. If someone will view Alys tonight it will give us who to go after tomorrow. Or tonight we could kill her but that would be wasteful if she is town in my opinion.

 

I agree with Talya and Meesha I believe it was about the fact that there are seperate mason groups, independent people, and possibly that the mafia can't communicate off topic or even multiple mafia groups working towards the same goal.

[Alys Kinch]

nae, did you just quote or quote and highlight?

 

@ barms, we are at an impasse; i saw that when you claimed. it's why i didn't play the who are you game. he said; she said. someone else check me to verify. we can actually solve this. yay.

[mmeeshal]

No, the theory is that the manipulators ARE the mafia.  Those of us that favor that theory, believe that it means there are some players of the mafia alignment infiltrating each faction.

 

Some people think that's ridiculous, why can't it be straightforward and yada yada?

 

Well, first of all, I think Wes did say something about this game changing mafia forever, it wouldn't be like anything you've played before, etc, so why on earth would it be as simple as figuring out which faction, Minister's Men or Challengers, is mafia?  If it was that simple, all we'd have to do is figure out which is which, and then we all know which way to vote.  If all the Bonda Perrada folk (Challengers) are mafia, then it's easy--we just vote for the Beva Perrada, the Minister's Candidate.

 

That would make it far too easy.

 

Anyway, I've also played a game (modded by Hybrid, so he can back this up; other people in this game were in that one too), over on MyndJack, where the mafia did actually infiltrate the town.  Not the entire group of mafia; it was WoT themed so 2 of us were Forsaken, and allowed to communicate directly with each other and talk to our other 2 members.  The other 2 were not allowed to talk to each other or us directly, but they were infiltrating mason groups--one was a Whitecloak, allowed to post on the Whitecloak QT and be part of the group.  The other was Black Ajah, posting on the Aes Sedai QT.

 

So it is possible for mafia to be spread out among the political factions, in fact it makes much more sense than a straightforward "This faction is mafia, this faction is Town" sort of thing.  And it wouldn't be extra-devious for Wes--it's only to be expected, really.

 

I know I'm ranting, it just really bothers me that some people insist that "straightforward" could be applied to any aspect of this game.

 

 

**edit for Alys' post**

 

To what you said to Talya, I have no idea what you're talking about.  Obviously I've already missed a lot in this game, which, while no surprise to me, does frustrate me because once again, I don't catch things that other people seem to see clearly.

 

To what you said to me, I am not saying that I did things perfectly; I wasn't trying to hint at my role, I was originally just trying to say that Captains aren't the manipulator group.  And when I tried to use Bela as the example, you jumped on it--"How do you know she was a captain?  Where did it say that?"  What was I supposed to do?  You refused to acknowledge that the death scene Wes wrote for Bela made it pretty clear that Bela was a captain, I tried pointing it out but that didn't do me any good, you just kept prodding.  Why?  Really, why?  I wouldn't have even hinted at having inside info if you hadn't been so difficult with acknowledging Bela's faction/alignment.

 

Nothing you say or do makes you look any less suspicious, I don't like how you're playing because I haven't seen anything remotely helpful in it at all--and by helpful, I don't mean "helpful to newbs," I mean "helpful to the Town."

 

**edit 2 MORE new posts**

Nae just quoted, Alys.  No highlighting or anything.  It's a blanket agreement.

[Alys Kinch]

meesh, that's just me. i don't try to be perfect, just me. that's all i expect of anyone. if i look suspicious for seeing something and questioning it... well, that's your opinion. but when i see something and i go at it. pretty all or nothing kind of person; restraint happens, but it's hard. i didn't remember, so i asked. your response made me  dig. cause, effect.

[Al Jenn Mael]

Sorry about my post... seems I missed a two or three pages around 22-24 ish where you guys talked about things that I just reiterated.

 

Anyways I also missed DPR's scene with the Bonestone. It seems there are three types of bonestone: Blackstone, Trapstone, and a Godstone. Raisha used her blackstone and it was light while the person she was looking at was dark... Anyways anyone who knows Sura's could you enlighten us please.

 

As for the Moral Dilema that seems so straight forward. Lets just go close the gate. *Shrugs*

 

Ok, Meesha I agree and that makes sense thanks.

 

I'm still wondering when the "blood bath" will happen.

 

Reisha talks about the manipulators bring the halls to its knees and revealing its secrets (Is the Suras a book that I can read). Could it be that both canidates are innocent and well intentioned, but one is just an unknowning pawn?

[Alys Kinch]

suras was a world building attemot by dm members. check the illuminators or whatever they are called now for info.

[ed2funy]

omg....11 pages since my last post, and it's still not caught up at that point. *gets to work*

[Barmacral]

Anyways I also missed DPR's scene with the Bonestone. It seems there are three types of bonestone: Blackstone, Trapstone, and a Godstone. Raisha used her blackstone and it was light while the person she was looking at was dark... Anyways anyone who knows Sura's could you enlighten us please.

 

All previous games have had their bonestone specified by colour, expect the same to happen here too.

[Barmacral]

nae, did you just quote or quote and highlight?

 

@ barms, we are at an impasse; i saw that when you claimed. it's why i didn't play the who are you game. he said; she said. someone else check me to verify. we can actually solve this. yay.

 

I'm ok with this. Odd that you would get something different in your PM when other Bonda Perrada have been plainly told in theirs. Mayhap its got something to do with the bonestone.

[LilyElizabeth]

I can NOT believe I'm about to say this, but I'm agreeing with Barm on this one. Alys, you're pinging me. Still, I think having someone else view you is a good idea.

[Alys Kinch]

where is dpr?? i know i pm'd him like he said and he said only a little late.

 

barm, whether it's bone stone or a convenient excuse for a false view remains to be seen. still it was false.

 

lily, specific reasons?

[LilyElizabeth]

Not really. Just a general feeling, but I don't know either of you that well, really. I only mentioned it because it was such a shock. Typically, Barm and I circle each other like enemies most of the time.

 

[Barmacral]

where is dpr?? i know i pm'd him like he said and he said only a little late.

 

barm, whether it's bone stone or a convenient excuse for a false view remains to be seen. still it was false.

 

lily, specific reasons?

 

Nothing false about it as best as I can tell.

[Alys Kinch]

hence the impasse. going to bed now though. might not make it around tomorrow, depends on how plans work out.

[Adella]

Apparently you guys are picky but I guess if you feel the need for proof that two peoples results showed you, okay.

 

I'm pretty excited for my death scene, and hope that its epic! I'm sure it will be.

[Aust]

That's an odd thing to say Adella. I don't like it when people give up - I think townies should fight until the end. I was holding off until I heard from you, but now I'm going to [glow=red,2,300]Vote Adella.[/glow]

[DPR]

 

Apologies - it was a 12 hour drive, and I'm fried - Adella is dead, scene to be posted in the morning. It will be epic. Think "The Pit".

[Al Jenn Mael]

*Nods Sagely* The fishies are hungry. Aust I know she is really busy in real life so her giving up could be just from that. I still don't think she is town.

 

I do think there are mafia among all three factions, but I'm not sure how to go about catching them if our viewing just shows which faction they belong to and not alignment. DPR will probably add things as the game progresses, but it still makes me feel uneasy that we're flying blind. I'm really curious about the bonestones, however I'll wait as that is just side tracking from finding mafia.

[ed2funy]

Well, there goes my vote. :D

Since she is dead and all.

 

I didn't do quotes this time, because that would have taken too long. I would have liked to go over in detail, but I can't atm.

 

Adella seems pretty scummy from her "defense" post, and the two(?) viewings of her just sealed the nails in her coffin from the start. Pandy didn't seem to really read because there were a few pages of arguments for a page or two already on whether Bonda P's are scum or not.

I think Adella will flip scum, and if so, I think Alys is pretty suspicious with the last couple of pages. Worth looking into.

 

I go on my LOA tomorrow morning, so I will be scare, but will stay up with my phone even if I can't post.

You people make some LONG posts! It's hard to read quotes from my phone.

 

umm....my thoughts are, I thought we were ALL Captains, and that some of us were of the 1/3 supporting Beva and 1/3 of us were supporting Bova, and 1/3 were not directly aligned with either party.

But it seems that the Manipulators as they are being called, infiltrate every group.

 

Not sure about this bonestone, godstone, or edstone yet. They seem dangerous. :D

[Red2111]

@Red--it's obviously playstyle differences, then.  You saw in the HP game, and I do this elsewhere too, I like hinting at my role, while trying to give proof with my actions, so that other people can guess.  If it becomes important for everyone to know, and not just those that are good at picking up hints, then I'll say "Yes, I'm role X."  But otherwise, I don't like spelling it out if it's not like a major role--like traditional doc or cop, for example.  I just don't feel safe sharing the information like that if it doesn't seem necessary.

 

Also, why does it seem too defensive to try and hide a mason group?  I admit that with the mechanics of this game, not all the same logic and rules will apply as in regular mafia, but it is an ingrained habit that you don't out groups of innocents unless you have to (as in, one of them is on the chopping block and the rest have to step forward to save that person).

 

I’m not saying hiding the group is defensive; just that I felt your reaction (ie word usage and overall tone of the post) to her asking for further clarification was what I felt was defensive.

 

I agree that its bad game play to out your team or even announce your on a team unless a team mate is in a bind.  unless of course your scum, then I fully support outing not only yourself but also your buddies *grins*  we’ve even got these nice specially made nooses as parting gifts ;)

 

joking aside, I think we’ll agree to disagree on the playing styles.  Imo each has there own way to play the game and there is no wrong way to play Mafia :)

 

 

So like I asked earlier about using the terms Ministers Man and The Challenger I now ask when refering to the groups call it Factions and when refering to Mafia/Town call it Alignment

 

It just makes it easier so we are all on the same page. I don't like confusion and misinterpretations.

 

Now what are you guys continually arguing about the 'manipulators' for? Do you think this is yet another faction with some nefarious goal and not the mafia... I think yes DPR will have twists and confusion for us plenty, but I read that passage as simply the mafia getting together. Occams Razor. 

 

Agreed about the name usage.  I’ve actullay been trying to do this for that same exact reason :)

 

Also, I think most of us agree that passage was about the Mafia team.  What we are discussing now, at least me anyways, is what their motives are, what their gain is and how to root them out if our finding results only show the faction reading and not a scum/town reading.

 

Looks like we have two conflicting statements. If someone will view Alys tonight it will give us who to go after tomorrow. Or tonight we could kill her but that would be wasteful if she is town in my opinion.

 

I agree with Talya and Meesha I believe it was about the fact that there are seperate mason groups, independent people, and possibly that the mafia can't communicate off topic or even multiple mafia groups working towards the same goal.

 

Agreed on both accounts, though I’m more inclined for someone to view her instead of killing her just in case.  I would but I wasted my view last night. 

 

Twas cloudy even though the weather man said it would be clear :(

 

No, the theory is that the manipulators ARE the mafia.  Those of us that favor that theory, believe that it means there are some players of the mafia alignment infiltrating each faction.

 

Some people think that's ridiculous, why can't it be straightforward and yada yada?

 

Well, first of all, I think Wes did say something about this game changing mafia forever, it wouldn't be like anything you've played before, etc, so why on earth would it be as simple as figuring out which faction, Minister's Men or Challengers, is mafia?  If it was that simple, all we'd have to do is figure out which is which, and then we all know which way to vote.  If all the Bonda Perrada folk (Challengers) are mafia, then it's easy--we just vote for the Beva Perrada, the Minister's Candidate.

 

That would make it far too easy.

 

Exactly the same as I’ve been saying :)

 

[Al Jenn Mael]

Also, I think most of us agree that passage was about the Mafia team.  What we are discussing now, at least me anyways, is what their motives are, what their gain is and how to root them out if our finding results only show the faction reading and not a scum/town reading.

 

Their motives seem pretty clear. Kill townies and get their person voted for. What else would they want?

[Red2111]

^^  i'm referring as to why they are doing it.  whats their motive for wanting to manipulate things and starting this rebellion?  if we can understand the motives more, it might help us figure out which candidate is tainted.

 

Anyway, I've also played a game (modded by Hybrid, so he can back this up; other people in this game were in that one too), over on MyndJack, where the mafia did actually infiltrate the town.  Not the entire group of mafia; it was WoT themed so 2 of us were Forsaken, and allowed to communicate directly with each other and talk to our other 2 members.  The other 2 were not allowed to talk to each other or us directly, but they were infiltrating mason groups--one was a Whitecloak, allowed to post on the Whitecloak QT and be part of the group.  The other was Black Ajah, posting on the Aes Sedai QT.

 

So it is possible for mafia to be spread out among the political factions, in fact it makes much more sense than a straightforward "This faction is mafia, this faction is Town" sort of thing.  And it wouldn't be extra-devious for Wes--it's only to be expected, really.

 

I know I'm ranting, it just really bothers me that some people insist that "straightforward" could be applied to any aspect of this game.

 

You brig up very good points, I’m glad there there is someone who has an example of a game where this has been used.  Again, I’ve been saying this as well.  I’m glad to see there are now 4 or 5 of us on the same page at least lol

 

To what you said to Talya, I have no idea what you're talking about.  Obviously I've already missed a lot in this game, which, while no surprise to me, does frustrate me because once again, I don't catch things that other people seem to see clearly.

 

To what you said to me, I am not saying that I did things perfectly; I wasn't trying to hint at my role, I was originally just trying to say that Captains aren't the manipulator group.  And when I tried to use Bela as the example, you jumped on it--"How do you know she was a captain?  Where did it say that?"  What was I supposed to do?  You refused to acknowledge that the death scene Wes wrote for Bela made it pretty clear that Bela was a captain, I tried pointing it out but that didn't do me any good, you just kept prodding.  Why?  Really, why?  I wouldn't have even hinted at having inside info if you hadn't been so difficult with acknowledging Bela's faction/alignment.

 

I guess the other option would have been to quote the death post and underline where it said Captain; as well as the post were the Minister called all of us Captains.  So I agree that I do find it interesting that Alys would dig at you after the death scene; but I can’t say I find her asking if you had inside info scummy once you hinted at it cause I did the same thing. 

 

I do have to disagree with you not catching obvious things though ;)  at least you caught the bit about the manipulators and this game not being straight forward …  others still need more convincing eve though its pointed out in many of the scenes Wes has written lol

 

meesh, that's just me. i don't try to be perfect, just me. that's all i expect of anyone. if i look suspicious for seeing something and questioning it... well, that's your opinion. but when i see something and i go at it. pretty all or nothing kind of person; restraint happens, but it's hard. i didn't remember, so i asked. your response made me  dig. cause, effect.

 

Fair enough. 

 

I think right now the best option is for someone to view her and we still feel she’s the scummiest after that then lynch her. 

 

This argument has turned into a circle discussion and arguing more will get us all no where and allow scum to slip in and manipulate us.

 

[Red2111]

Anyways I also missed DPR's scene with the Bonestone. It seems there are three types of bonestone: Blackstone, Trapstone, and a Godstone. Raisha used her blackstone and it was light while the person she was looking at was dark... Anyways anyone who knows Sura's could you enlighten us please.

 

I'm still wondering when the "blood bath" will happen.

 

Reisha talks about the manipulators bring the halls to its knees and revealing its secrets (Is the Suras a book that I can read). Could it be that both canidates are innocent and well intentioned, but one is just an unknowning pawn?

 

I don’t know about Sura except for what I’m learning in this game.  But from the scenes it seems like

 

Bonestone = protection

Godstone = finder for alignment

 

From the name, Trapstone might be a roleblocker of some sort or maybe allows the user to change a persons faction or alignment for that night … 

 

I’ve also been wondering about the blood bath … though I thought it might have something to do with the amount of VK’s in this game.

 

Also you bring up an interesting point with the candidates.  It would fit into the win condition as well as explain more about the place of the manipulators.

 

nae, did you just quote or quote and highlight?

 

@ barms, we are at an impasse; i saw that when you claimed. it's why i didn't play the who are you game. he said; she said. someone else check me to verify. we can actually solve this. yay.

 

I'm ok with this. Odd that you would get something different in your PM when other Bonda Perrada have been plainly told in theirs. Mayhap its got something to do with the bonestone.

 

I agree as well.  It’s a lot like the above Meesh/Alys thing.  Right now without either a confirming view or a corners report we wont get any more than a circle argument.

 

Unsure about the bonestone thing though, seeing as it wasn’t brought up until after all our role PM’s were sent out ???

 

 

Apologies - it was a 12 hour drive, and I'm fried - Adella is dead, scene to be posted in the morning. It will be epic. Think "The Pit".

 

:) I can’t wait.  But I think that Wes said we should “think Pit” pretty much confirms Adella is a Challenger Supporter.  The Minister has already said those opposing him will be thrown into the pit.

 

I do think there are mafia among all three factions, but I'm not sure how to go about catching them if our viewing just shows which faction they belong to and not alignment. DPR will probably add things as the game progresses, but it still makes me feel uneasy that we're flying blind. I'm really curious about the bonestones, however I'll wait as that is just side tracking from finding mafia.

 

I think our findings are meant to help us out with the secret ballots and choosing the right candidate, not necessarily hunting scum

 

I’m curious about the stones as well.  But I think Wes will explain them more in scenes to come and we can guess their abilities by their effects

 

umm....my thoughts are, I thought we were ALL Captains, and that some of us were of the 1/3 supporting Beva and 1/3 of us were supporting Bova, and 1/3 were not directly aligned with either party.

But it seems that the Manipulators as they are being called, infiltrate every group.

 

Not sure about this bonestone, godstone, or edstone yet. They seem dangerous. :D

 

Yeah, I’d say you got it right ;)

 

I dunno if the stones are dangerous or not, I think it depends on whose hands their in and how their used; just like with any ability.

 

[Talya]

just for info, Bonestone is not necessarily about protection. They are usually coloured and the colours have different properties. They have been used in other suras games, so it might be worth listening to those who have played in them.

 

The new I think is the Godstone, this seems all powerful, but it does hint that it shouldn't be used alone. I think soon these bones will be floating around and there maybe a chance to get one...so it's worth getting any tippit you can about them, whether from those that know or from Wes.

 

Actually Alys, I think the last Wes game we played I didn't think you were mafia, but I think that was the only game ;) :D