Rand and Moiraine. How will it go down?

[The Desert Pea]

I'm a bit worried about Moiraine's return. It would be very easy to try to make her too cool for school, which would be a bad thing I think. There's nothing worse than the character which leaps of a tall building to kill all the bad guys with a single sweep of her lazer beam eyes.

 

Moiraine's awesome. Probably my favourite character. But she didn't win every scene or always come out looking the best/on top. Brandon's done this a little bit with a few of the other characters--usually by dumbing down secondary characters so they can be shot down. Joline with Mat, for instance. Or Merise or Damer with Rand. A fair number of Aes Sedai with Egwene. And yes, though I know no one likes it because everyone was looking forward to Cadsuane getting slapped down, but Cadsuane with Rand and Tam.

 

I've always found this to somewhat lessen the success. I want characters to win coz their badass, not because they're fighting someone who conveniently sticks their foot in their own mouth and leaves themself open for attack. I want Moiraine to shake the world on her own.

 

While that's a very real concern, I'm not too worried about her return. I think it's safe to say that she'll be pretty roughed up from her stay in Finnland, but the spirit which makes her such a great character is still going to be strong and I believe she'll be on a no nonsense warpath to return to Rand's side as his adviser, whether she's been stilled/burnt out or not. That determination alone I think will be enough for Moiraine to shake the world on her own as a person without the dumbing down of other characters or frikkin' laser beams. I wholeheartedly believe any victory that comes through Moiraine will be a genuine, untarnished one. I'd expect nothing less out of the most anticipated moment in the series.

[Deadsy]

I don't envy Brandon having to write it (if it wasn't written by RJ).

 

I can see the hugging/crying and carp, and Rand asking "How?" and Moiraine replying "The wheel weaves as the wheel wills." I can't wait for the first time she says that. I miss all her sayings that don't reveal anything. (not that she's gonna try hiding anything from Rand anymore).

 

I wonder whose PoV it's going to be in. I'm not even sure whose I want it to be in. Actually, if I had my way, we'd get the scene 10 times from every different possible PoV. Moiraine, Rand, Mat, Min, Cadsuane, a fly on the wall, a lice in Loial's ear hair.

[Luckers]

I don't envy Brandon having to write it (if it wasn't written by RJ).

 

Me either. I think he can do it, but its going to be some very nuanced stuff, so my inner geek sits there and worries himself sick.  ;D

[Jeangray]

I'm re-reading and in the early books again, and she spends most of her time (well, her and Lan) threatening farmhands with death and destruction and manipulating others.  She's genuinely an awful person

 

Huh? The hayseeds were trying to get themselves killed at every opportunity (not their fault, they were in no way prepared) and she couldn't tell them that their antics were endangering the world.

 

And if you think that telling them that Rand was probably the DR would have helped (before Moiraine herself was completely sure too) you need to check his and Perrin's reactions in TGH and TDR. Even after Eye of the World, the dragon banner, the fight in the skies, both Ishamael and Artur Hawkwing calling Rand Lewis Therin - even after all that both of them were half-convinced that it was just some nefarious plot of Moiraine/ the White Tower. What, do you think, would have happened if she had tried to tell them earlier?

 

Oh, and Gandalf did all these things too and nobody considers him an awful person/angel.

 

 

Brandon's done this a little bit with a few of the other characters--usually by dumbing down secondary characters so they can be shot down. Joline with Mat, for instance. Or Merise or Damer with Rand. A fair number of Aes Sedai with Egwene.

 

But didn't RJ himself start it when he massively dumbed the AS in LoC and mostly kept them that way ever since? And didn't Mat first get the Band because the Tairen commanders were complete idiots? Etc, etc. And Joline? Seriously? Was there any room to make her even more moronic than she'd been in KoD?

 

Frankly, I don't worry about Moiraine being too badass in the remaining books. She is the woman who visited the Green Man twice, which was supposed to be impossible, found the Dragon Reborn and saved his life many times, generally saved thousands of people including the main characters both through her battle skills and her healing, faced 4 Forsaken and killed 2 of them, was the first and so far only wetlander woman to go to Rhuidean, etc. Nothing she accomplishes after her return will be out of character, IMHO. 

And she will start from the position of damsel in distress, needing to be rescued, so there certainly will be enough vulnerability.

 

My only fear is that she might not get enough time on-screen.

 

[Jillain Sanche]

Why are some of you speculating she may be stilled or burned out? I don't see the logic behind that, nor have I seen any textual evidence in indication of such an event?

 

She went through the door into finn-land, and who knows how smart she had to be to maintain herself in the custody of snakes and foxes (some of whom seem to be wearing "skin"?) Lanfear apparently did die in finn-land, if Cyndane is her reincarnated self. So maybe she was overly arrogant with the finns?

 

oh, and Gandalf did not. He never threatened any farmers anywhere.

[Dida]

I don't envy Brandon having to write it (if it wasn't written by RJ).

 

...

 

I wonder whose PoV it's going to be in. I'm not even sure whose I want it to be in. Actually, if I had my way, we'd get the scene 10 times from every different possible PoV. Moiraine, Rand, Mat, Min, Cadsuane, a fly on the wall, a lice in Loial's ear hair.

 

Lanfear point of view.  :o 

 

Nobody has seen her point of view yet.... ;)

 

 

The Daughter of the Night returns, to help 'save' the world after having a tea party with Moiraine to correct her behavior & attitude difficulties.  It fits with a Min's Foretelling (tEoW), a Egwene Dream(tPoD), and two separate scenes, one in KoD book and the other in tGS book.     

 

 

  Far more abstractly, Lanfear is seemingly modeled on aspects of the Greek deity of 'Nyx' in her name origin, while Moiraine seems to have aspects of Greek deity of 'Moirai' in her character make up. 

 

 

Why are some of you speculating she may be stilled or burned out? I don't see the logic behind that' date=' nor have I seen any textual evidence in indication of such an event?[/quote']

 

  Agreed.  No evidence at all is given about Moiraine state in the Eelfinn's realm.  That's purely speculation on their parts.  Probably because those same individuals have 'bitten' to the theory that Lanfear died and now has a reduced Saidar strength overall.  They have to have that assumption to believe that Lanfear is now Cyndane.  However, that's all speculation too, that Lanfear is Cyndane. 

 

  Textual evidence supports the view that Lanfear never died in the Eelfinn's realm, and that she remains alive there, even now.  The whole set-up of scenes with Mat's character supports that view, as does the point that not one single Female Chosen believes the so-called theory that 'Lanfear is now Cyndane'. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Luckers]

Why are some of you speculating she may be stilled or burned out? I don't see the logic behind that, nor have I seen any textual evidence in indication of such an event?

 

When we last saw Moiraine she was clawing an angreal of Lanfear whilst drawing wildly on the Power herself as they both fell through a ter’angreal which subsequently exploded. From the beginning of the series we have been warned time and again of the dangers of channeling near ter’angreal. Add to that the fight over the angreal and the transportation to a different reality, and the likelihood that they weren’t both burned out becomes slim.

 

Beyond that, at that exact moment Lan’s bond to Moiraine was snapped, and as far as we’ve seen only two things cause a bond to snap—death and the Aes Sedai being severed from the True Source. Since we know Moiraine did not die (as of Knife of Dreams), than that leaves the possibility of being severed.

 

Now, as a side point, some suggest that the bond was severed when the passage between the two realities was severed, and yet there is still a passage between the real world, and the realm of the Finns in existence. Still, there is nothing to directly preclude this as a possibility.

 

A final piece of evidence can be found in the fact that the Finns managed to hold Moiraine and Lanfear (which we know they did between Moiraine’s letter in KoD and Lanfear’s comment in Winter’s Heart). We also know that channeling works against the Finns as a deterent since Rand manages to hold the Finn of with his fiery sword. So, the question is this: If Moiraine and Lanfear weren’t severed, how did the Finns manage to hold them? Both possessed their own angreal, and both would have been at least somewhat aware of how to deal with the Finn’s (fire, music, iron). Indeed, it’s likely Lanfear even knew of the Tower of Ghenjei, and the way out of Finnland. So how did the Finns contain these two powerful channelers?

 

Some suggest the Finns have the ability to break weaves of the Power, as with Mat’s ter’angreal. Yet the presence of the Aes Sedai symbol small as the foxes eye on that ter’angreal suggest it was made by the Aes Sedai for the Finns, not the other way round. Moreover, Cyndane’s shock upon encountering a similar ter’angreal when she was fighting Alivia essentially prove that she had never encountered anything of the sort prior to that event.

 

 

Dida, stop trolling threads with that. If you wish to create a thread on it, do so, but bringing it up in every thread you possibly can is trolling, so stop it.

[Durinax]

well the bond could have been severed because there where no active connections to finnland, the tower requires a 'key' to become active

 

maybe both where knocked out from the force of flying through a ter angreal, having the connection to their natural world severed. and since moraine dived at lanfear lanfear woudl have hit the ground first and if she hit her head and got knocked out the following snapping of moraines bond could have caused her to fall unconcious

[Luckers]

well the bond could have been severed because there where no active connections to finnland, the tower requires a 'key' to become active

 

Yet there is still the Tairen Doorway, and before you say it Cyndane states they were held by both the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. And besides, the ToG requires a key to open, not be active. We know there are active links between their realm and ours--its how they watch the memories of those they link themselves too.

 

maybe both where knocked out from the force of flying through a ter angreal, having the connection to their natural world severed. and since moraine dived at lanfear lanfear woudl have hit the ground first and if she hit her head and got knocked out the following snapping of moraines bond could have caused her to fall unconcious

 

Are you suggesting being knocked out snapped Moiraine's bond?

[farthammer]

If she knew in advance that her death might be imminent, why would she not go ahead and either release Lan or pass him to spare him this?

[Luckers]

If she knew in advance that her death might be imminent, why would she not go ahead and either release Lan or pass him to spare him this?

 

We don't know for sure. Perhaps the rings warned her that would warn him, and he'd throw a spanner in the works trying to save her. Perhaps what she set up with Myrelle meant they would all three have to be together in order to release the bond.

 

Whatever the reason, we do know that she did not release him of his bond. Releasing the bond does not induce the Death-Absortion Effect, which Lan suffered. Only snapping the bond causes that.

[seasnake]

Seasnake - I think you are the first person I have heard from that did not like Moiraine!

Anyway, about Lord Brend/Sammael, I always thought that it was the sense of evil...they all felt it, but Moiraine as an Aes Sedai knew that it had to be a forsaken, but I too don't know how she knew it was Sammael...anyone??

Part of it was probably a process of elimination. The Forsaken wasn't shielding his dreams so everyone was dreaming about Lord Brend (making it a male Forsaken) and it couldn't be either Aginor or Balthamel since they're both dead. So this left Ishy, Demandred, Sammael, Rhavin, Asmo, and Be'lal. Not sure where she could go with it from there, though. You could also find out more about "Lord Brend" and probably make some other eliminations based on what's known about the Forsaken in the White Tower hisotires...if he's not interested in music you can get rid of Asmo, for instance.

 

Maybe she found a Darkfriend and made it spill the beans. Whatever it is she did seemed pretty dangerous, and apparently blew their cover because they had to flee right away.

 

Look, Ta'veren luck or not, what were her odds of finding the one or two Darkfriends that knew the true identity of Lord Brend?  As to the other, considering she had to go Loial to learn that Be'lal was called Netweaver and Envious, you'd think her knowledge of the characteristics of the Forsaken is relatively limited.  

 

I give WoT a free pass on a lot of that stuff, because RJ cleverly introduced Ta'veren and Past Lives.  It helps me swallow the idea of Mat as a general, Rand as a swordsman, and the repeated Deus Ex Machina that save the lives of the good.  But it just seems like its stretching it too much to think that in one night she was able to find this out.  

 

As to hating her, I think it was Sirius Black who said "If you want the measure of a man, don't see how he treats his equals, look at how he treats his inferiors."  And Moiraine is terrible to common people, and frankly so is Lan at first.  Also she's arrogant, assuming she knows what Rand should and shouldn't do.  If Rand had listened to her in The Shadow Rising he'd have launched a pointless war with Illian and never gone to Rhuidean.  Further, she's the one who started Rand down the path of crazy with the "I do what I must" crap.  She was the one who would repeatedly say things like "I oppose the Dark One whatever it takes" and then use it to justify why she treats people like garbage.  She saw people as tools to further her ends and causes, she only cared about their feelings and dignity and desires if it didn't conflict with her own.  Sounds like the second coming of Mordeth.

 

Another sign she's a horrible person is her warder, Lan.  Warders and Aes Sedai are supposed to be somewhat on the same page and Lan, who is supposed to be this honorable warrior princeling, is constantly spending the first three books ready to kill country bumpkins that see too much for their liking (like the poor innkeeper in Jarra who notice that Moiraine is an Aes Sedai.  Here's a hint:  If you don't want to be noticed by innkeepers, camp outside and sleep in the mud.  And don't were a flipping sapphire on your forehead, that makes you "stand out.")  

 

That Lan would always consider this action in these situations and look to Moiraine for a final decision tells me that in some situations Moiraine would be willing to off an innocent bystander for a greater good.  It's never "Well shoot, we've been spotted, let's run.  What, kill an innocent bystander just because Aes Sedai have distinctive faces?  Impossible, we'd never do such a thing!"  It's always "Lan gripped the hilt of his sword and even though his face didn't change, his cool blue eyes turned to ice.  Moiraine sat still for a long moment, then finally sighed and shook her head slightly.  'No my Gaidin,' she said. 'The Last Lord of the Seven Towers shall have other duties tonight than cutting the throats of the overly-observant.'  Lan's posture didn't change, still he sat like a lion coiled and waiting to pounce on a gazelle, yet his eagerness to do murder faded.  Slightly."

 

The fact that it's a decision to be considered and never rejected out of hand indicates she's seriously thinking about it.  And this sort of thing happens quite often in books 1-4 (I'm rereading).  Considering Moiraine spends all her time in Book 5 sucking up to Rand because he hates her, and then "dies", this is the character evidence I have of her. And it leads me to one conclusion:

 

She's a garbage human being.  Her coming back ... sucks.  Unless she's been turned by the 13/13 trick and Rand, Perrin, Mat, or Nynaeve has to kill her.  Then her coming back is awesome.  

[Jeangray]

oh, and Gandalf did not. He never threatened any farmers anywhere.

 

LOL, well. He threatened hobbits, though they were not quite farmers, I agree. He threatened Bilbo many times during their association and basically "compelled" him to go on a dangerous quest, he threatened Sam and IIRC also Pippin at some point. He didn't threaten Frodo, IIRC, but that's because Frodo was inclined to trust Gandalf and follow his suggestions and also mature enough to take on the burden once he knew what was what. Aragorn also threatened the 4 hobbits many times during their trek to Rivendell.

Gandalf frequently kept back information too and manipulated people and events towards obscure, but eventually benevolent ends.

 

As to hating her, I think it was Sirius Black who said "If you want the measure of a man, don't see how he treats his equals, look at how he treats his inferiors."

 

Which was always very rich coming from him, of course.

 

And Moiraine is terrible to common people, and frankly so is Lan at first.

 

If by "common people" you mean the 3 TR boys, then again, what alternative do you suggest, given that she couldn't tell them the truth and their strong anti-AS prejudices. I mean, they were endangering the very world by their stupid antics.

OTOH, when they visited places where Moiraine was previously known, as herself or under an alias, she seemed to be liked.  

 

 Also she's arrogant, assuming she knows what Rand should and shouldn't do.

 

Why is that arrogant? She does know better in the beginning. And even later when Rand comes into his own and they disagree, she is often less wrong than seems at the first glance. Yes, she didn't piece it together about the Aiel and Rhuidean, so what? Everybody can make mistakes. But the essence of Rand's plan was what Moiraine was pushing all along - get a nation solidly behind him. And he did lead that nation to war too, didn't he?

 

Oh, and BTW somparing to Gandalf - his mistake dwarfs anything of Moiraine's, right? He had the One Ring sitting right there for 70 years of relative calm, when it would have been incomparably easier to destroy it, some suspicions and a simple test to find out what it was. Yet he dithered until it was almost too late. Even once he knew what it was, he still left Frodo to his own devices, which very  nearly doomed the world. And after such massive failure, he still thought he knew what had to be done. What an arrogant jerk, right?

 

The fact that it's a decision to be considered and never rejected out of hand indicates she's seriously thinking about it.

 

They are at a critical juncture, though, where the world is in balance. If somebody sicked Whitecloaks on them at that point... There is zero indication that they have killed non-DF people who weren't actively trying to kill them in the past.

 

Finally, don't the TR boys start to threaten people too in the later books, without inviting such censure from you?

 

 

[Dida]

Why are some of you speculating she may be stilled or burned out? I don't see the logic behind that, nor have I seen any textual evidence in indication of such an event?

 

 When we last saw Moiraine she was clawing an angreal of Lanfear whilst drawing wildly on the Power herself as they both fell through a ter’angreal which subsequently exploded. From the beginning of the series we have been warned time and again of the dangers of channeling near ter’angreal. Add to that the fight over the angreal and the transportation to a different reality, and the likelihood that they weren’t both burned out becomes slim.

 

Beyond that, at that exact moment Lan’s bond to Moiraine was snapped, and as far as we’ve seen only two things cause a bond to snap—death and the Aes Sedai being severed from the True Source. Since we know Moiraine did not die (as of Knife of Dreams), than that leaves the possibility of being severed.

 

  How can a Warder bond create a sense of direction for Lan when Moiraine entered a Parallel World?  Would Lan notice Moiraine's presents though that same Warder bond when the Tower of Ghenjei is re-opened by Mat, Thom and a 3rd man?    

 

 

  It's as if Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds share in common a 'lack of touch' with the physical world the Westlands.   Lan does not feel Moiraine after the Eelfinn Portal was destroy.  Likewise Egwene al'Vere did not Dream of Rand once in either of the two Portal Stone Mirror Worlds he entered.  Neither the future Mirror World, nor the Time Delayed Mirror World to Toman's Head.  Egwene commented it was odd that Rand had disappeared from her Dreams both times.

 

 

 

Now, as a side point, some suggest that the bond was severed when the passage between the two realities was severed, and yet there is still a passage between the real world, and the realm of the Finns in existence. Still, there is nothing to directly preclude this as a possibility.

 

 Only a closed passage way.  

 

 So why didn't Lan complain of not feeling Moiraine in Tear earlier when going through the Aelfinn's portal?  

 

 Of course yes, one portal was destroyed and the other was not.

 

 

[Luckers: Removed. Do not ignore an admin instruction again, and consult your personal messages if you have questions.]

[Adella]

Wow, this thread is insanely off topic... I was totally into this topic until it got off on something that, TBH, needs it's own thread. Dida, you are stretching if you think that having a MILDLY related discussion here isn't at least hijacking the thread, although I'm not sure who started it anymore.

 

And, to join the off-topic party, Luckers I think the theory of her drawing too much of the OP to herself is much more likely to have burned her out than the doorway melting. The other doorway is still in tact (from what he know) and the ToG is there obviously, so I don't buy the "cutting her off from this world" bit. But, knowing RJ, it is very likely to be something we all wrote off quickly or something none of us even thought of.

[seasnake]

oh, and Gandalf did not. He never threatened any farmers anywhere.

 

LOL, well. He threatened hobbits, though they were not quite farmers, I agree. He threatened Bilbo many times during their association and basically "compelled" him to go on a dangerous quest, he threatened Sam and IIRC also Pippin at some point. He didn't threaten Frodo, IIRC, but that's because Frodo was inclined to trust Gandalf and follow his suggestions and also mature enough to take on the burden once he knew what was what. Aragorn also threatened the 4 hobbits many times during their trek to Rivendell.

Gandalf frequently kept back information too and manipulated people and events towards obscure, but eventually benevolent ends.

 

As to hating her, I think it was Sirius Black who said "If you want the measure of a man, don't see how he treats his equals, look at how he treats his inferiors."

 

Which was always very rich coming from him, of course.

 

And Moiraine is terrible to common people, and frankly so is Lan at first.

 

If by "common people" you mean the 3 TR boys, then again, what alternative do you suggest, given that she couldn't tell them the truth and their strong anti-AS prejudices. I mean, they were endangering the very world by their stupid antics.

OTOH, when they visited places where Moiraine was previously known, as herself or under an alias, she seemed to be liked.  

 

 Also she's arrogant, assuming she knows what Rand should and shouldn't do.

 

Why is that arrogant? She does know better in the beginning. And even later when Rand comes into his own and they disagree, she is often less wrong than seems at the first glance. Yes, she didn't piece it together about the Aiel and Rhuidean, so what? Everybody can make mistakes. But the essence of Rand's plan was what Moiraine was pushing all along - get a nation solidly behind him. And he did lead that nation to war too, didn't he?

 

Oh, and BTW somparing to Gandalf - his mistake dwarfs anything of Moiraine's, right? He had the One Ring sitting right there for 70 years of relative calm, when it would have been incomparably easier to destroy it, some suspicions and a simple test to find out what it was. Yet he dithered until it was almost too late. Even once he knew what it was, he still left Frodo to his own devices, which very  nearly doomed the world. And after such massive failure, he still thought he knew what had to be done. What an arrogant jerk, right?

 

The fact that it's a decision to be considered and never rejected out of hand indicates she's seriously thinking about it.

 

They are at a critical juncture, though, where the world is in balance. If somebody sicked Whitecloaks on them at that point... There is zero indication that they have killed non-DF people who weren't actively trying to kill them in the past.

 

Finally, don't the TR boys start to threaten people too in the later books, without inviting such censure from you?

 

 

 

Point 1) While I do think Gandalf and Moiraine and very different (with Gandalf being superior), I'm not going to bother going into a long discussion of Lord of the Rings to counter your points (and yes I could, I started to even write it all out).  Instead, for the sake of argument, let's concede that Gandalf sucks.  Now how does that make Moiraine better than she is?  It's like saying Jim murders people, but Bob murders people too, therefore Jim is an okay guy.  So why the constant references to Gandalf?  Look at what Moiraine did and tell me why it was good conduct, not why other people have done wrong.

 

Point 2) The quote by Sirius Black is still true.  He didn't live by it, but that doesn't make him wrong.  If you don't like him as a source, let's try Jesus.  "If you salute only your friends what reward have ye?  Do not even the publicans do the same?"  I've seen lawyers who suck up to the partners, hob nob with their fellow lawyers, and then mock their poor clients.  I'll tell you which one I'm looking at to understand the kind of lawyer I'm working with.

 

Point 3)  I wasn't aware that I had to point out all the flaws of every character in the books in order to point out why I think one character is not as great as everyone thinks.  However, as far as the TR boys in later books, didn't you read my post?  I don't approve of what Rand did, his whatever it takes attitude was craziness.  He was trying to out-ruthless the Dark One, and becoming evil to fight evil.  I actually blamed Moiraine for starting him down that path, and if I blame her for what happened to Rand it's probably implied I don't like what Rand's been up to.  The difference is this:  Rand is recognized as crazy and doing wrong by people, Moiraine gets a free pass apparently. 

 

Mat never goes down that road, by the way.  Perrin flirts with it once in Crossroads of Twilight and then he's so disgusted at what he's becoming he throws away his axe and resolves to never be like that again.  What he did was wrong, but he immediately knew it and resolved to change.  Moiraine never has shown that much character. 

 

So I'll censure, as you put it, Rands craziness and Perrin's moment of madness.  And I'll still censure Moiraine for being an arrogant, impossible know it all who fights evil with evil. 

 

They are at a critical juncture, though, where the world is in balance. If somebody sicked Whitecloaks on them at that point... There is zero indication that they have killed non-DF people who weren't actively trying to kill them in the past.

 

That's what Moiraine would say:  The ends justify the means.  And please reread the first four books, there are plenty of times Moiraine is willing to let innocent people die for her greater good.  I gave one example in Jarra, Thom Merrilin was on the chopping block in EotW, and she wants Rand to start a war that she knows is wrong but she thinks is politically expedient. 

[farthammer]

So they were a little too vigilant in the beginning?  They never do go on any kind of murdering spree.  She's pretty calculating I think for the first few books, so she makes the mistake of thinking the WT would be this rational organization able to form a working coalition of sorts around the DR.  I believe this is where she may have thought Rand and the WT could've expanded their power into Illian, that in the moment offered the best opportunity to do so incurring the fewest losses possible.  She didn't want him to go to Tear in the first place though, maybe she deserves a little more credit for trying to move carefully instead of sowing chaos.

[Knobs Mahoney]

 

[Luckers: Removed. Do not ignore an admin instruction again, and consult your personal messages if you have questions.]

 

pwned? hahahaha

 

 

[lordofsoup]

more... gandalf did threaten Butterbeer with burning him or something like that. 

 

i think all of you people need to stop hating.  You would do the same thing that Moraine did, when after twenty years of searching, you have narrowed down your search for the savior of the world to three boys.  They did not trust her, and she had to make sure that they did not get killed or anything, not to mention that they were being chased by a couple hundred trollocs.  When you have to take refuge for the night in Shadar Logoth, you know something is bad.  She did the best she could in a bad situation. 

[Barid Bel Medar]

more... gandalf did threaten Butterbeer with burning him or something like that. 

 

i think all of you people need to stop hating.  You would do the same thing that Moraine did, when after twenty years of searching, you have narrowed down your search for the savior of the world to three boys.  They did not trust her, and she had to make sure that they did not get killed or anything, not to mention that they were being chased by a couple hundred trollocs.  When you have to take refuge for the night in Shadar Logoth, you know something is bad.  She did the best she could in a bad situation. 

 

Of course! I dont blame any of the characters.

 

In any case, the world isnt nice, Rand cant just waltz in and bludgeon the DO to death with fuzzy sentiments.

Moiraine did right, what is a few innocent lives compared to the unravelling of the whole Pattern. As for comparing any characters of other books, well thats just stupid, they are all in completely different situations and worlds.

Rand, Egwene, Perrin, Mat, Moiraine, all have done what they have for the greater good,

 

Rand knows he is going to die, and is willing to, he will do anything to save the people from destruction, What matters a few innocents who threaten the world?

 

Moiraine, you say, is too harsh. What then if she had been forgiving, and let a DF loose, with vital information that kills Rand, destroying the hope of the World? She sacrificed herself, not knowing that she would be rescued, knowing that she could die in the ToG. All she does in the past, she is willing to do herself.

 

So I ask, what matters a few innocents, compared to the fate of the world?

 

[Guest BaLefireP]

Moiraine: 'sup.

Rand: Not much. You?

Moiraine: Didn't die.

Rand: Well, that's good I suppose.

Moiraine: Had that foursome yet?

Rand: Nah.

Moiraine: Bummer.

Honestly, I usually just lurk these boards, but I HAD to post and tell you how AMAZING this post was :D Too bad it's too long for a sig...

 

 

I could not agree more Adella!  :D

[Random Man]

 

And, to join the off-topic party, Luckers I think the theory of her drawing too much of the OP to herself is much more likely to have burned her out than the doorway melting. The other doorway is still in tact (from what he know) and the ToG is there obviously, so I don't buy the "cutting her off from this world" bit. But, knowing RJ, it is very likely to be something we all wrote off quickly or something none of us even thought of.

Last I remember, Moiraine was using her angreal when she embraced the Source and tackled Lanfear, so she would have been buffered against drawing too much of the Power. If she's burned out, it must have been something else that caused it. Something caused the doorway to melt.

[Durinax]

 

And, to join the off-topic party, Luckers I think the theory of her drawing too much of the OP to herself is much more likely to have burned her out than the doorway melting. The other doorway is still in tact (from what he know) and the ToG is there obviously, so I don't buy the "cutting her off from this world" bit. But, knowing RJ, it is very likely to be something we all wrote off quickly or something none of us even thought of.

Last I remember, Moiraine was using her angreal when she embraced the Source and tackled Lanfear, so she would have been buffered against drawing too much of the Power. If she's burned out, it must have been something else that caused it. Something caused the doorway to melt.

could it be lanfears weaves snapping and hitting the doorway?

[micah alliashadi]

They lock eyes and Marvin Gaye's 'lets get it on' will start playing, they rush into each others arms and the screen fades to black. Later they are shown lying in bed together, Rand smoking a pipe, he mentally takes Moiraine Damodred off his women ive killed list, and puts her straight onto his women ive banged list

 

 

hahahahahahahhahaha

haha

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

 

thank you so much

[beaverensis]

call me crazy, but just on the topic of lan's bond being passed, isn't it possible that moiraine set a weave to be triggered once she went through the twisted stone doorway? that would pass the bond to myrelle (is that the correct aes sedai?). bear with me. she knows she's going through the doorway, at least in one future, and she's WELL aware of what is going on between nynaeve and lan. clearly, she can't pass the bond directly to a wilder (who's just barely an accepted at that point if i remember correctly), so she passes it to another full aes sedai who can pass it to nynaeve when she's been raised.

 

back to the topic, i full believe that RJ intended rand and moiraine to meet up again. she's too ingrained into the mythology. i personally don't believe that she was stilled. so she could very well come back from the ToG with an angreal/sa'angreal/ter'angreal that could make or break the last battle. the finns have the technology, so to speak. maybe, just maybe, rand thinks of matt, seeing the swirls and moiraine and goes to collect them with nynaeve. nynaeve and moiraine travel to tarwins gap and make the difference in lan's personal war.

 

and nynaeve and moiraine actually end up being buds. too much to hope for?