Would Balefire work against the Dark One?

[Barid Bel Medar]

My guess is no, because we all know Balefire burns the "threads" of the pattern away, as if they didnt exist (at least from one point in time) Now if i use this quote

The only known forces outside the Wheel and the Pattern the are the Creator, who shaped the pattern, the One Power that drives it - as well as the plan for the Great Patter- and the Dark One, who was imprisoned outside the pattern by the Creator at the moment of creation.

BWB: Chapter 1: The Wheel and the Power

 

So if we take this quote as true, that means the Dark One could not technically be "burnt out" of the Pattern because he is not IN the Pattern.

 

Anyway, it seems straight forward to me, but I am not sure if there is anything to suggest otherwise.

 

Thoughts?

[water_seeker]

Balefire burns threads INSIDE the pattern and the DO exists OUTSIDE the Pattern so he probably couldn't be killed by it.

[MashiraSedai]

Agreed.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yea, my thoughts precisely, i was just curious if there are any other theories regarding this as balefire is (specially in tGS) the main weave against the forsaken because they cant be reborn after being struck with Bf. So i was curious weather anyone thought that BF would be used to defeat the DO. And if so, I shall prove it wrong  ;D

[StefanR]

There was some interview awhile back where RJ said something to effect of "The amount of balefire needed to destroy the DO would destroy the pattern and everybody living"

 

So it would pretty much end the universe of Randland

[azrael.1289]

Does the GLoD even have a physical form to BF? I'm sure he can take some sort of physical form if he wants to, but I don't think BFing that will have any effect on him.

[StefanR]

I suppose you could BF the bore?

[Barid Bel Medar]

if u BF the bore than the DO will be free.

 

???

 

[azrael.1289]

if u BF the bore than the DO will be free.

 

???

 

Pretty sure that isn't true, otherwise Ismy would have done it in the last age itself.

[Barid Bel Medar]

if u BF the bore than the DO will be free.

 

???

 

Pretty sure that isn't true, otherwise Ismy would have done it in the last age itself.

 

true, however, i dont think the bore is actually a place you can attack, its a thinness of the pattern or some such, the seals werent actually created at some point in the world that u could target, but rather felt out, it wasnt a thing they put a precise point on.

 

Its hard to explain, but the bore isnt a point that u can aim at, therefore, i still think that Balefire would destroy the bore, but you cant actually Balefire it beacuse its not something you can shot something at, if that makes any sense, they talk about it in interviews and the BWB

[azrael.1289]

if u BF the bore than the DO will be free.

 

???

 

Pretty sure that isn't true, otherwise Ismy would have done it in the last age itself.

 

true, however, i dont think the bore is actually a place you can attack, its a thinness of the pattern or some such, the seals werent actually created at some point in the world that u could target, but rather felt out, it wasnt a thing they put a precise point on.

 

Its hard to explain, but the bore isnt a point that u can aim at, therefore, i still think that Balefire would destroy the bore, but you cant actually Balefire it beacuse its not something you can shot something at, if that makes any sense, they talk about it in interviews and the BWB

That's exactly how I feel about the DO himself. He just exists. You can't actually aim BF at him to destroy him. At-least that's how I always imagined him.

[alannalynn]

Would you really want to BF the DO? The world, especially Randland, is all about balance. If you get rid of what makes half the balance,... well, that sounds bad.

[reson8]

This does make me wonder something however.....if Lanfear was one of the  two Aes Sedai present at the  drilling of t he bore, why doesn't she use this knowledge with Ishy to re-drill the bore, or simply drill a new one?

[Barid Bel Medar]

mm, a valid point but i think it is impossible.

 

Lanfear drilled the hole at the Colllam Daan where the pattern was the thinnest (which turned out to be the new spot for SG) LTT and his people sealed the hole in the prison at SG.

 

So 2 reasons why Lanfear couldnt do it again.

 

1. They dont know how to break the seals.

2. The bore was where the pattern was at its thinnest, and not being able to break through the seals, the other places in the pattern are too strong to drill through to the DO prison.

[gatesofhaven]

I hope something kills the dark one this time. Its already been hinted at in TGS. I think rand might have to let the dark one out of his prison to actually kill him. Either that or use the True Power, it works against the WOT instead of with it. Im not sure thats possible but its sounds like the only way.

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

This does make me wonder something however.....if Lanfear was one of the  two Aes Sedai present at the  drilling of t he bore, why doesn't she use this knowledge with Ishy to re-drill the bore, or simply drill a new one?

 

That's a very interesting thought. It makes me wonder why the Dark One immediately began to exert influence over the world as soon as the Bore was drilled. Logically, he was either unwilling or unable to withhold his influence from that time. If he was unwilling, it calls his wisdom into question, because the smarter thing to do would have been to exert no influence at all, and instead gradually widen the Bore until he was ready to escape. If he was unable, it calls his power into question, suggesting that the Shadow has no true master (except possibly the Creator).

 

Your observation also highlights the fact that creating the Bore seems to be fundamentally different from widening the Bore. Of note is that the Shadow's goal during the War of Power seems to have been to conquer the world, not to fully open the Bore per se. It makes me wonder how much the Dark One was involved in, or even cared about, the War of Power.

 

As for your specific question, I don't know. It could have something to do with the Seals. It could have something to do with the lack of powerful, sane male channelers, or the lack of high technology and information. It could be that that reopening the Bore or creating a new one would actually be more difficult than going through the process of breaking the Seals. It could be that more than one Bore would destroy the world. It could be any number of things, really. Unless RJ wrote the answer down in his notes somewhere, I suspect we'll never know.

[Durinax]

they drilled it from a research thing, so they lost all the tools and notes on how they did that proceedure.

 

what if SH gets balefired, since he is a physical projection type thing, would that potentially hit the DO hard enough that the pattern can be fixed and the DO resealed perfectly?

[farthammer]

Freeing the DO isn't necessarily something Lanfear even wants to do.  It seems from all her Rand encounters that she wants power over the DO in addition to whatever personal satisfaction of finally winning LTT over.

[Lord_Mat]

If you BF Lanfear would that reseal the bore?

[mossman87]

The Bore is just a hole in the Pattern, balefiring it wouldn't do much, so re-sealing the Bore is as simple as healing the Pattern. Now how do you do that? Plenty of theories for that out there.

[Arthur55]

The Bore is just a hole in the Pattern, balefiring it wouldn't do much, so re-sealing the Bore is as simple as healing the Pattern. Now how do you do that? Plenty of theories for that out there.

 

I agree, so the seals must relate to that fact. How I'm not to sure, maybe the elements. Its a interesting thought.

[reson8]

If you BF Lanfear would that reseal the bore?

 

Too far out of the timeline parameters for Balefire. Even if you could burn her thread that far back, the ensuing chaos would probably rip the world apart.

[FarShainMael]

The thought occurs to me that what was used to create the Bore was a weave related to balefire, which penetrated the 'thinness' in the Pattern and widened it, pushing apart the threads around it. We need an 'anti-balefire' to push the threads back into position, once the rubble had been cleared away. Would three ta'veren do the trick?

 

As for why didn't the DO escape when the Bore was made: perhaps It was in the middle of a game of zara and didn't want to be interrupted! ;)