The Amyrlin's Anger

[Dream]

"Remnants cast out and scorned" should be the BA. While not everyone is happy woth the choice of Egwene, and a great many Aes Sedai having kept out of the conflict completely, they are far from cast out and scorned.

 

The BA that were found out and couldn't flee were stilled and executed, weren't they? And the others would be as well if they were found. So I don't think the foretelling speaks about them. Cast out and scorned is a too weak euphemism for being killed for my taste.

 

You are assuming that they will all be captured and killed.  If the BA continues to exist, what will they be?  Cast out and scorned.

 

As for 'stronger than ever', Egwene have just started, by ending the split, and bringing about 1000 novices to the White Tower. If her plans to tie the Wise Ones, the Kin and the wind finders to the WT, she opens the door for a radical change, one that will greatly benefit the WT in the end.

 

These are her plans, true, but do you actually believe there's even a theoretical chance of the Wise Ones subscribing to that idea? Just the last conversations with Aviendha in TGS tells us otherwise, I think, and rightly so. Egwene might be collecting thousands of novices, but greatness or strength comes more from what AS can do, like buildsing something like the Choedan Kal or Rhuidiean. Do you think the Tower will anytime soon be able to achieve anything like that?

 

The White Tower was formed after the Breaking so it would be unreasonable to compare the current White Tower to the Age of Legend Aes Sedai.  We also do not know the state of the White Tower after it was formed, although we do know things were drastic enough that they would use the binder on themselves.  Also, I believe it has been mentioned that there are so many novices that the White Tower will need to expand to accommodate all the new recruits.  So it is possible that the newly whole White Tower is already stronger than it has ever been, regardless of whether Wise Ones or Wind Finders will join.

 

The BT rent in blood and fire seems to point at the coming fight between Logain and Taim. There are currently two delegations of Aes Sedai at the BT, and once Logain shows up, he and "his" Asha'man would have their bonded AS with them. Surely some of them will be alive to walk the grounds once the dust settles.

 

I agree about Logain and Taim, and AS have already literally walked the grounds of the BT (even if only as Logains's guests, so to speak). But in the context of a foretelling there should be more to it than just the literal meaning.

 

I agree.  Literally speaking, AS have already walked the grounds but there is more to this than that.  I’ve interpreted this part as “the Black Tower will be destroyed by a force that includes the White Tower.”

 

But I get back to my original point - the foretelling is too vague and not very useful for predictions, IMO.

 

All of RJ’s Foretellings (and Dreams and Viewings) are vague, which is why we have so much fun with the predictions. :)

 

 

 

As to whether Rand will allow Egwene to “influence” him, I doubt that.  The Foretelling never specified Rand’s reaction so I believe the probability that Rand would bow to the Amyrlin Seat would be equal to the probability Rand would kneel to the Crystal Throne.  In fact, I fully expect he will bind Egwene to him, just as he will bind Fortuona.

 

[Cirin]

While I agree that Egwene does tend to have a bit of a superiority complex at times, I don't think that Rand feeling her anger would necessary end with him being cowed.  If anything negative comes out of it, I could see them trying to shield Rand or something of the sort, but if Rand has actually "integrated" so-to-speak with Llews Therin, I think it would be very, very hard to either manipulate or outright control him... unless, I suppose, Mesaana was somehow able to influence the situation some...

 

ADDENDUM:  Actually, I could almost see Rand revealing Mesaana and destroying her, and Egwene getting mad because that was a White Tower responsibility, and they don't need his help, etc.

 

That being said, we could still see the whole thing play out regarding the chair stealing that makes some lady murderously angry.  I would hope that Rand would be above this now, but if he gets really insistent that the Two Towers should unite, and that he should by Tamyrlin, I could see Egwene getting a little peeved at him... especially since SHE fought off the Seanchan, reunited the White Tower, etc.

 

At this point, though, there are so many things it could mean that it's really hard to speculate.  For all we know, she might get angry because she's trying to talk to him, and he's just standing there humming and rubbing his earlobe, staring around at the Aes Sedai in the room.

 

Or maybe he'll meet up with Morgase, realize that she looks a lot like Ilyena, run off with her, and Egwene will get ticked because now Gawyn whines about THAT all the time instead.  ;D

[Axon]

Sometimes, I just wish Rand would kill all the really annoying characters. 

[Skeeve the Great]

I have another scenario:

 

Rand meets with Egwene. Gawyn sees Rand, confronts him with his newfound "blademaster" ability. Rand trashes Gawyn as rabbid dog he is. Egwene sees that Gawyn is trashed and goes ballistic on Rand. Rand trashes Egwene.  ;D

[DemandredFO]

Then, for good measure a one-eyed Mat and captain Galad show and Mat proceeds to kick Galad and Gawyn all over the place again.

[StefanR]

While I agree that Egwene does tend to have a bit of a superiority complex at times, I don't think that Rand feeling her anger would necessary end with him being cowed.  If anything negative comes out of it, I could see them trying to shield Rand or something of the sort, but if Rand has actually "integrated" so-to-speak with Llews Therin, I think it would be very, very hard to either manipulate or outright control him... unless, I suppose, Mesaana was somehow able to influence the situation some...

 

ADDENDUM:  Actually, I could almost see Rand revealing Mesaana and destroying her, and Egwene getting mad because that was a White Tower responsibility, and they don't need his help, etc.

 

That being said, we could still see the whole thing play out regarding the chair stealing that makes some lady murderously angry.  I would hope that Rand would be above this now, but if he gets really insistent that the Two Towers should unite, and that he should by Tamyrlin, I could see Egwene getting a little peeved at him... especially since SHE fought off the Seanchan, reunited the White Tower, etc.

 

At this point, though, there are so many things it could mean that it's really hard to speculate.  For all we know, she might get angry because she's trying to talk to him, and he's just standing there humming and rubbing his earlobe, staring around at the Aes Sedai in the room.

 

Or maybe he'll meet up with Morgase, realize that she looks a lot like Ilyena, run off with her, and Egwene will get ticked because now Gawyn whines about THAT all the time instead.  ;D

 

No such thing as a Tamirlyn, Tamirlyn was a person, not a position. RJ has debunked it

[SuperFade]

No such thing as a Tamirlyn, Tamirlyn was a person, not a position. RJ has debunked it

 

Is there a source for this? I keep hearing this mentioned but the Wiki and other sources mention it being Lews Therin's title.

[Durinax]

could someone reread the prologue for EotW I dont have my copy I thought that ishy said something about the ring of the tamyrlin

[farthammer]

He did but that's pretty much all he says.  He just pointed out LTT wore it.  Tamyrlin doesn't appear to show up anywhere in the books except as a reference to the ring.

[Barid Bel Medar]

A ring from the Age of Legends worn by the leader of the Aes Sedai. Whether or not it was an angreal, sa'angreal  or ter'angreal of immense power is unknown, although stories often mention it was one of these. It is said that the Ring was named for the first person to learn how to tap into the Source and channel. Others say it was made by that person. Contrary to popular Aes Sedai  thinking, it cannot be said for certain whether it was a man or woman who first learned to channel. It is also held that Amyrlin is a corruption of Tamyrlin.

 

thats supposedly referenced from the book "Eye of the World: To the Blight" glossary

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_Tamyrlin

 

[StefanR]

No such thing as a Tamirlyn, Tamirlyn was a person, not a position. RJ has debunked it

 

Is there a source for this? I keep hearing this mentioned but the Wiki and other sources mention it being Lews Therin's title.

 

There was an interview where RJ was asked whether Tamirlyn was a position though, and he said no

[SuperFade]

There was an interview where RJ was asked whether Tamirlyn was a position though, and he said no

 

When I said 'source', I meant a quote or transcript. Admittedly I haven't read many RJ interviews, so you could be quite right.

[StefanR]

I'll try and find it, read it a while back though

[Cirin]

No such thing as a Tamirlyn, Tamirlyn was a person, not a position. RJ has debunked it

 

Is there a source for this? I keep hearing this mentioned but the Wiki and other sources mention it being Lews Therin's title.

 

There was an interview where RJ was asked whether Tamirlyn was a position though, and he said no

 

That's fair enough, I can believe that.  After all the only real reference to the name Tamyrlin is Elan Morin saying that Llews Therin wore the Ring of Tamyrlin, which, since we know it was a person's name, means simply that it was his ring, and is not the name of any particular position.  Either way, Rand could just say he wants to be Amyrlin, then, or at least say that he thinks there should be a male Amyrlin along with Egwene.

[DemandredFO]

That should make Egwene's head explode ;D and then the position will be vacant

[farthammer]

Why would he even want to do that, I don't get it.

[Cirin]

Why would he even want to do that, I don't get it.

 

Yeah, I kind of tried to preface that statement a bit at the end, by saying a male equivalent of the Amyrlin, etc. since I don't really see Rand all that crazy about taking on the job.  At the same time, though, I can see some conflict arising between them if Rand either a) doesn't want the Black Tower/asha'man to fall under the jurisdiction of the White Tower, keeping the two separate, or b) will try to unite the Black and White Towers into one tower, and will either want both a male and female chair, so to speak (which does promote cooperation) or at least allow Asha'man to be eligible for high positions, etc.

 

Alternatively, I know this is kind of off-topic and random, but I seem to remember someone mentioning a vision of Egwene's where Gawyn either dies soon, or lives a long life and dies surrounded by his family.  This just made me curious, since I can't really picture Egwene both as Amyrlin and having children with Gawyn... kind of made me wonder if Gawyn will either die (perhaps because of something with Egwene being Amyrlin), if Egwene will just decide to say heck with it and have kids while being Amyrlin, if Gawyn will ultimately marry someone else, or if Egwene will, at some point, relinquish her title of Amyrlin.  That would be kind of hard for me to see with her personality as it is, but you never know.  Anyway, that just got me curious.

[DemandredFO]

There could be some conflict between Rand and Egwene because for all intents and purposes Rand IS Lews Therin now or at least has his memories and everything.

On a completely different note, I wonder if anything will come of Egwene almost understanding what Mat said in EOTW.  Mat is possibly Aemon or some other high-ranking Manetheran personage reborn and now he is far more but what of Egwene.  I forget if she recognized the old tongue but after TGH it has to be suspect because AS learn some old tongue.  That would make a fine big unnoticed thing but it can't be because it's in book 1.  Still just wondering if there are any thoughts.

[Duskfire]

There could be some conflict between Rand and Egwene because for all intents and purposes Rand IS Lews Therin now or at least has his memories and everything.

On a completely different note, I wonder if anything will come of Egwene almost understanding what Mat said in EOTW.  Mat is possibly Aemon or some other high-ranking Manetheran personage reborn and now he is far more but what of Egwene.  I forget if she recognized the old tongue but after TGH it has to be suspect because AS learn some old tongue.  That would make a fine big unnoticed thing but it can't be because it's in book 1.  Still just wondering if there are any thoughts.

 

I dont think theres anything to it. Its just meant to represent that the Old Blood is strong in the Two Rivers, particularly in Mat, but Egwene also has a bit of it. I dont think Aemon is reborn; I believe Mat is distant related to him however. His ancestor was a cousin of Aemon or some such, thus the Old Blood.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

I agree.  Literally speaking, AS have already walked the grounds but there is more to this than that.  I’ve interpreted this part as “the Black Tower will be destroyed by a force that includes the White Tower.”

 

It will be destroyed by Logain's force, which will include Aes Sedai.

[DemandredFO]

There also could be a conflict between the 2 groups of AS considering it was the rebels who wanted to modify the bond where it's basically compulsion whereas ironically the reds went there with more or less an open mind.

[Dream]

 

I agree.  Literally speaking, AS have already walked the grounds but there is more to this than that.  I’ve interpreted this part as “the Black Tower will be destroyed by a force that includes the White Tower.”

 

It will be destroyed by Logain's force, which will include Aes Sedai.

 

I'm positive the White Tower will be involved, possibly even the main force.  Partially because the Foretelling was about the White Tower in general and partially because they would be required as the Black Tower is probably massive by now.  And Taim owns the Black Tower; Logain's force would be tiny in comparison.

 

The way I see it, Rand will meet up with Egwene where she will yell at him for many things, but mostly for whatever happened to the rebel AS delegation sent to the BT.  Rand finally decides to deal with the BT and they go to there together where a massive OP battle of epic proportions ensues.

[DemandredFO]

Pretty sure whatever happens it will be done long before Rand and Egwene meet.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

I agree.  Literally speaking, AS have already walked the grounds but there is more to this than that.  I’ve interpreted this part as “the Black Tower will be destroyed by a force that includes the White Tower.”

 

It will be destroyed by Logain's force, which will include Aes Sedai.

 

I'm positive the White Tower will be involved, possibly even the main force.  Partially because the Foretelling was about the White Tower in general and partially because they would be required as the Black Tower is probably massive by now.  And Taim owns the Black Tower; Logain's force would be tiny in comparison.

 

Pretty sure that Taim only has a little more than 100 guys out of like 4-500. They do have the advantage of Taim's extra lessons though.

[Dream]

 

Pretty sure that Taim only has a little more than 100 guys out of like 4-500. They do have the advantage of Taim's extra lessons though.

 

Those 100 are full asha'man and (IMO) confirmed darkfriends.  The rest will have to choose whether to follow the Dragon or their Leader.  No doubt many will choose Rand, I expect others will "defend the Black Tower" and some just won't know what to do.  Logain must have a good reason to seek out Rand and warn him about Taim.  As you said, Taim's AM are better trained and I doubt Rand/Logain wants to fight the BT on even terms.