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The Malazan Book of the Fallen Thread


Werthead

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I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

I think the end of Book 4 is a great place to call it a day. If you've read they first four you get at least y for pretty much the entire story for Fesilin, Bauden and Heboric.....Mapping and Icarium.......Crokus and Kruppe....Paean...

 

Book Five launches all new storylines, so, yeah, like I said, Book Four is a good place to wrap it up if the series is not for you.

 

 

Fish

 

What are you on about? Almost none of those characters have had their story reach a conclusion by the end of book 4. In fact the only two characters in that list that is finished is Baudin and Felisin. Heboric, Mappo, Icarium, Crokus, Kruppe and Paran all have huge and important roles to play in the later books.

 

Ummm...nooooo. (And Im only beginning like that because the Mods here really enjoy posts that start with "Ummm" lol ;-) ) ... Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5 - The Tides of Midnight - but their INITIAL storylines wrap in House of Chains/Book 4. If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5 because the series just isn't doing it for you, then Book 4 is a decent place to cut bait. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

Fish

Firstly, the fifth book is called Midnight Tides. Secondly, none of those chracters are in it. So none of them begin new arcs in that book.

 

Those characters are not in Book 5??? Um, that's exactly why Book 4 serves as a great dividing point in the series - imo. And, Im not really sure how THIS can be misunderstood: ''If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

You may have misread that as ''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

It happens.

So you're saying that I misread "Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5"? That what I should have read was not "those characters", but "new characters." I see. I must confess, I do have an awful habit of reading the words people write and interpreting those words to mean what they actually say, rather than what people wish they had put. Unfortunate, but it happens.

 

I think its pretty apparent I meant the characters in the NEXT storyarc and not the characters originally mentioned. Reading comprehension. This is why I wrote:

 

'If you don't want to begin THE next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

and not:

 

''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

Unless your implying that I went back and edited my OP? No? Didn't think so. So, get over it? K, thx.

 

 

Fish

I'm not implying that you edited, I'm implying that you were taking that part of what you said out of context. The next cycle of stories could refer to the next cycle involving the existing characters, or just the next cycle, involving new characters. Next cycle doesn't automatically mean new characters, and you had already mentioned the existing characters starting new arcs. You say "those characters" begin new story arcs in book five - which characters? The unmentioned new ones, or the aforementioned old ones who you claimed were beginning new arcs in this book. The line I quoted was the context which you tried to avoid. See, Fish, I'm actually trying to help you here. Stop for a minute, think about what I have said, and then bear it in mind next time you post. Think about what you are trying to say, because as it is you managed to shoot your own point in the foot. There is no problem with my reading comprehension here, only your writing comprehension. It is worth taking the time to make your point clear. Remember, we are not you - we will see what you write, not necessarily what you meant to write.

 

I stand by the opinion that for many people, they will not be smart enough to enjoy the Malazan books. But it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, and defiantly not anyone in this thread.

I thought it was obvious that those participating in this thread were at least semi intelligent.

And I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to defend that statement as if it was directed at themselves.

I know for a fact that the scope of this story, and the way its written by being revealed in layers IS beyond the grasp of less intelligent people.

And why would anyone assume that this theory also encompassed those who just didn't like the book for other reasons?

I think some of you that rushed in to both defend or attack my assumption revealed quite a lot about yourselves.

 

"A man walks into a room full of strangers, and starts talking about how Democrats are less intelligent than Republicans. A few democrats take offense and confront the man."

I believe I've spotted some "democrats."

So what have the people who stepped in to attack your assumption revealed? That they are not fans of the implicit assumption that they are less intelligent than you. You've spotted some Democrats - fine, but it looks to me like the Democrats in your little story have not demonstrated any lack of intelligence, they have merely seen fit to disagree with a blanket insult thrown at them. What point were you trying to make with your comment about intelligence? It has no relevance to the matter at hand. Anyone of average intelligence can understand Malazan well enough. All that comment does is insult the intelligence of others - which you admit was not your point - and flatter your own by extension. It adds nothing to the conversation. Now, I would like to assert that some people are not smart enough for Spot the Dog. I don't mean anyone in particular, not anyone here, just in general, there are people out there who are not equipped to understand those books.

 

Remember, we are not you - we will see what you write, not necessarily what you meant to write.

 

Fair enough - That is why, in an above post, I apologized for not being clear enough. I feel like Book Five begins a new cycle, and I understand that characters from Books 1 - 4 come back later in the series. For me, reading the first four is worth the investment for me to see if the se seriies grabs you, and, conversely, I feel like the end end of Book 4 is a decent jumping off point if you are not completely enthralled by then. But that is just MY perspective. It's all subjective and everyone's tastes differ. To me: its a good series. With A LOT of really, really good PARTS. Overall though, the sum of the parts does not equate a tremendous whole for me though. But that is just MY taste. I also am not inticately familiar with every little aspect from Books 6 onward, so I hesitate to say TOO much about those particular books in the series.

 

 

Fish

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I will be returning to this series soon. Recently finished book 8. I've got the next one waiting but still need to buy The Crippled God. Figured I'd wait and read them both. I may read some of the outriggers first though. They are sitting on my shelf. The black Company is yelling at me louder right now though.

 

Anyway, I think it's worth it to finish the series. It's an investment sure, but the (in my mind) rare section that is a slog to read is far outweighed by the product of the whole. There are few characters that I don't enjoy and those few are usually joined by ones I love so it works out. Looking forward to the conclusion.

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Jesus Christ, I yield.

Anyway, I'm about a quarter into Bonehunters.

I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far, although I found it hard to connect some of the dots. Still very intriguing.

 

The battle at Y'Ghatan is just about my favorite battle of the series. The sheer size and scope of it just blows me away, and I love that he does practically the entire battle in one 120 something page chapter forcing you (or at least me) to experience the entire thing before you come to a decent stopping place.

 

I love the battle at Y'Ghatan, its great. With that said I'd still rank it 5th behind:

 

1)Capustan: My favorite battle thus far. I mean just the part where Gruntle and Company have killed SO many people, that the structure is completely full of dead bodies, and outside the bodies are stacked so high, they form a ramp level with the ROOFTOP of this 3 to 5 story structure. Splendid vision.

 

2)Coral: Just the work of Quick Ben makes this battle sick enough.

 

3)Chain of Dogs: The ending of it is what makes it great. Great story, great characters.

 

4)Lether: Sick Majikz. What can I say.

 

Then Y'Ghatan. But they're all so close, and so great, don't let ranking them take anything away from it. It'd be like preferring an Australian Bikini model over a Swiss Bikini model. They're both still super hot.

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Here is the beginning to chapter two of Midnight Tides. There's no spoilers. If I had to pick a part of this series through book 5 that I thought was absolutely great writing, it wouldn't be about a battle, not the seizing of a city, no perfect duel. No I'd choose the very first part of Book 5, Chapter 2.

 

" A GLANCE BACK. IN THE MISTY HAZE FAR BELOW AND TO THE WEST

 

glimmered the innermost extent of Reach Inlet, the sky’s pallid reflection thorough in

 

disguising that black, depthless water. On all other sides, apart from the stony trail

 

directly behind Seren Pedac, reared jagged mountains, the snow-clad peaks gilt b y a sun

 

she could not see from where she stood at the south end of the saddle pass.

 

The wind rushing past her stank of ice, the winter’s lingering breath of cold decay. She

 

drew her furs tighter and swung round to gauge the progress of the train on the trail

 

below.

 

Three solid-wheeled wagons, pitching and clanking. The swarming, bare-backed figures

 

of the Nerek tribesmen as they flowed in groups around each wagon, the ones at the head

 

straining on ropes, the ones at the rear advancing the stop-blocks to keep the awkward

 

conveyances from rolling backward.

 

In those wagons, among other trade goods, were ninety ingots of iron, thirty to each

 

wagon. Not the famed Letherii steel, of course, since sale of that beyond the borders was

 

forbidden, but of the next highest quality grad e, carbon-tempered and virtually free of

 

impurities. Each ingot was as long as Seren ’s arm, and twice as thick.

 

The air was bitter cold and thin. Yet those Nerek worked half naked, the sweat steaming

 

from their slick skins. If a stop-block failed, the n earest tribesman would throw his own

 

body beneath the wheel. And for this, Buruk the Pale paid them two docks a day. Seren

 

Pedac was Buruk’s Acquitor, granted passage into Edur lands, one of seven so sanctioned

 

by the last treaty. No merchant could enter Edur territory unless guided by an Acquitor.

 

The bidding for Seren Pedac and the six others had been high. And, for Seren, Buruk’s

 

had been highest of all, and now he owned her. Or, rather, he owned her services as guide

 

and finder – a distinction of which he seemed increasingly unmindful.

 

But this was the contract’s sixth year. Only four remaining.

 

Maybe.

 

She turned once more, and studied the pass ahead. They were less than a hundred paces’

 

worth of elevation from the treeline. Kn ee-high, centuries-old dwarf oaks and spruce

 

flanked the uneven path. Mosses and lichens cov ered the enormous boulders that had

 

been dragged down by the rivers of ice in ages past. Crusted patches of snow remained,

 

clingin g to shadowed places. Here the wind moved nothing, not the wiry spruce, not even

 

the crooked, leafless branches of the oaks.

 

Against such immovable stolidity, it could only howl.

 

The first wagon clattered onto level ground behin d her, Nerek ton gues shouting as it was

 

quickly rolled ahead, past Seren Pedac, and anchored in place. The tribesmen then rushed

 

back to help their fellows still on the ascent.

 

The squeal of a door, and Buruk the Pale clambered out from the lead wagon. He stood

 

with his stance wide, as if struggling to regain the memory o f balan ce, turning with a

 

wince from the frigid wind, reaching up to keep his fur-lined cap on his head as he

 

blinked over at Seren Pedac.

 

‘I shall etch this vision against the very bone of my skull, blessed Acquitor! There to join

 

a host of others, of course. That umber cloak of fu r, the stately, primeval grace as you

 

stand there. The weathered majesty o f your pro file, so deftly etched b y these wild

 

heights.

 

‘You – Nerek! Find your foreman – we shall camp here. Meals must be prepared. Unload

 

those bundles of wood in the third wagon. I want a fire, there, in the usual place. Be on

 

with it!’

 

Seren Pedac set her pack down and made her way along the path. The wind quickly

 

dragged Buruk’s words away. Thirty paces on, she came to the first of the old shrines, a

 

widening of the trail, where level stretches of scraped bedrock reached out to the sides

 

and the walls of the flanking mountains had been cut sheer. On each flat, boulders had

 

been positioned to form the full-sized outline of a ship, both prow and stern pointed and

 

marked by upright menhirs. The prow stones had been carved into a liken ess of the Edur

 

god, Father Shadow, but the winds had ground the details away. Whatever had originally occupied these two flanking ships had long vanished, although the bedrock within was

 

strangely stained.

 

The sheer walls of rock alone retained something of their ancient power. Smooth and

 

black, they were translucent, in the manner of thin, smoky obsidian. And shapes moved

 

behind them. As if the mountains had been hollowed out, and each panel was a kind of

 

window, revealing a mysterious, eternal wo rld within. A world oblivious of all that

 

surrounded it, beyond its own borders of impenetrable stone, and of these strange panels,

 

either blind or indifferent.

 

The translucent obsidian defied Seren’s efforts to focus on the shapes moving on the

 

other side, as it had the past score of times she had visited this site. But that very mystery

 

was itself an irresistible lure, drawing her again and again.

 

Stepping carefully around the stern of the ship of boulders, she approached the eastern

 

panel. She tugged the fur-lined glove from her right hand, reached and set it against the

 

smooth stone. Warm, drinking the stiffness from her fingers, taking the ache from the

 

joints. This was her secret, the healing powers she had discovered when she first touched

 

the rock.

 

A lifetime in these hard lands stole suppleness from the body. Bones grew brittle,

 

misshapen with pain. The endless hard rock underfoot soon sent shocks through the spine

 

with each step taken. The Nerek, the tribe that, before kneeling to the Letherii king, had

 

dwelt in the range’s easternmost reach, believed that they were the children of a woman

 

and a serpent, and that the serpent dwelt still within the body, that gently curved spine,

 

the stacked knuckles reaching up to hide its head in the centre of the brain. But the

 

mountains despised that serpent, desired only to drag it back to the ground, to return it

 

once more to its belly, slithering in the cracks and coiled beneath rocks. And so, in the

 

course of a life, the serpent was made to bow, to bend and twist.

 

Nerek buried their dead beneath flat stones.

 

At least, they used to, before the king’s edict forced them to embrace the faith of the

 

Holds.

 

Now they leave the bodies of their kin where they fall. Even unto abandoning their huts. It

 

had been years ago, but Seren Pedac remember ed with painful clarity coming over a rise

 

and looking upon the vast plateau wher e the Nerek dwelt. The villages had lost all

 

distinction, merging together in chaotic, dispirited confusion. Every third or fourth hut

 

had been left to ruin, makeshift sepulchres for kin that had died of disease, old age, or too

 

much alcohol, white nectar or durhang. Children wander ed untended, trailed by feral rock

 

rats that now bred uncontrolled and had become too disease-ridden to eat.

 

The Nerek people were destroyed, and from that pit there would be no climbing out.

 

Their homeland was an overgrown cemetery, and the Letherii cities promised only debt

 

and dissolution. They were granted no sympathy. The Letherii way of life was hard, but it

 

was the true way, the way of civilization. The proof was found in its thriving where other

 

ways stumbled or remained weak and stilted.

 

The bitter wind could not reach Seren Pedac now. The stone’s warmth flowed through

 

her. Eyes closed, she leaned her forehead against its welcoming surface.

 

Who walks in there? Are they the ancestral Edur, as the Hiroth claim? If so, then why

 

could they see no more clearly than Seren herself? Vague shapes, passing to and fro, as

 

lost as those Nerek children in their dying villages.

 

She had her own beliefs, and, though unpleasant, she held to them. They are the sentinels

 

of futility. Acquitors of the absurd. Reflections of ourselves forever trapped in aimless

 

repetition. Forever indistinct, for that is all we can manage when we look upon ourselves,

 

upon our lives. Sensations, memories and experiences, the fetid soil in which thoughts

 

take root. Pale flowers beneath an empty sky.

 

If she could, she would sink into this wall of stone. To walk for eternity among those

 

formless shapes, looking out, perhaps, every now and then, and seeing not stunted trees,

 

moss, lichen and the occasional passer-by. No, seeing only the wind. The ever howling

 

wind. "

 

 

The two parts I like best are how the author gives us a bit about Seren, and the landscape she's in, while at the same time making profound revelations about life, all life, life in general, your life, my life, with the scene in which she places her hand and forehead against the obsidian sides of the mountain path.

And I love how he gives you the story of the mountain about the woman and the serpent. And he compares the harshness of the mountain as it causes the people who live there to physically curl up as they grow old, thus returning finally to the ground, like the snake.

I think its amazing writing. Worth the spans of, where I do admit, can be boring.

But to each his own. I love Karsa's story where many hate it.

So enjoy your favorite characters as they all do a magnificent dance around each other, swaying to the beat of cosmos.

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I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

I think the end of Book 4 is a great place to call it a day. If you've read they first four you get at least y for pretty much the entire story for Fesilin, Bauden and Heboric.....Mapping and Icarium.......Crokus and Kruppe....Paean...

 

Book Five launches all new storylines, so, yeah, like I said, Book Four is a good place to wrap it up if the series is not for you.

 

 

Fish

 

What are you on about? Almost none of those characters have had their story reach a conclusion by the end of book 4. In fact the only two characters in that list that is finished is Baudin and Felisin. Heboric, Mappo, Icarium, Crokus, Kruppe and Paran all have huge and important roles to play in the later books.

 

Ummm...nooooo. (And Im only beginning like that because the Mods here really enjoy posts that start with "Ummm" lol ;-) ) ... Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5 - The Tides of Midnight - but their INITIAL storylines wrap in House of Chains/Book 4. If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5 because the series just isn't doing it for you, then Book 4 is a decent place to cut bait. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

Fish

Firstly, the fifth book is called Midnight Tides. Secondly, none of those chracters are in it. So none of them begin new arcs in that book.

 

Those characters are not in Book 5??? Um, that's exactly why Book 4 serves as a great dividing point in the series - imo. And, Im not really sure how THIS can be misunderstood: ''If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

You may have misread that as ''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

It happens.

So you're saying that I misread "Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5"? That what I should have read was not "those characters", but "new characters." I see. I must confess, I do have an awful habit of reading the words people write and interpreting those words to mean what they actually say, rather than what people wish they had put. Unfortunate, but it happens.

 

I think its pretty apparent I meant the characters in the NEXT storyarc and not the characters originally mentioned. Reading comprehension. This is why I wrote:

 

'If you don't want to begin THE next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

and not:

 

''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

Unless your implying that I went back and edited my OP? No? Didn't think so. So, get over it? K, thx.

 

 

Fish

I'm not implying that you edited, I'm implying that you were taking that part of what you said out of context. The next cycle of stories could refer to the next cycle involving the existing characters, or just the next cycle, involving new characters. Next cycle doesn't automatically mean new characters, and you had already mentioned the existing characters starting new arcs. You say "those characters" begin new story arcs in book five - which characters? The unmentioned new ones, or the aforementioned old ones who you claimed were beginning new arcs in this book. The line I quoted was the context which you tried to avoid. See, Fish, I'm actually trying to help you here. Stop for a minute, think about what I have said, and then bear it in mind next time you post. Think about what you are trying to say, because as it is you managed to shoot your own point in the foot. There is no problem with my reading comprehension here, only your writing comprehension. It is worth taking the time to make your point clear. Remember, we are not you - we will see what you write, not necessarily what you meant to write.

 

I stand by the opinion that for many people, they will not be smart enough to enjoy the Malazan books. But it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, and defiantly not anyone in this thread.

I thought it was obvious that those participating in this thread were at least semi intelligent.

And I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to defend that statement as if it was directed at themselves.

I know for a fact that the scope of this story, and the way its written by being revealed in layers IS beyond the grasp of less intelligent people.

And why would anyone assume that this theory also encompassed those who just didn't like the book for other reasons?

I think some of you that rushed in to both defend or attack my assumption revealed quite a lot about yourselves.

 

"A man walks into a room full of strangers, and starts talking about how Democrats are less intelligent than Republicans. A few democrats take offense and confront the man."

I believe I've spotted some "democrats."

So what have the people who stepped in to attack your assumption revealed? That they are not fans of the implicit assumption that they are less intelligent than you. You've spotted some Democrats - fine, but it looks to me like the Democrats in your little story have not demonstrated any lack of intelligence, they have merely seen fit to disagree with a blanket insult thrown at them. What point were you trying to make with your comment about intelligence? It has no relevance to the matter at hand. Anyone of average intelligence can understand Malazan well enough. All that comment does is insult the intelligence of others - which you admit was not your point - and flatter your own by extension. It adds nothing to the conversation. Now, I would like to assert that some people are not smart enough for Spot the Dog. I don't mean anyone in particular, not anyone here, just in general, there are people out there who are not equipped to understand those books.

 

Sorry, but you've taken what I said the wrong way. Not saying that's your fault or anything. Like I said, I apologize then.

You're right, nothing positive came from my statement, and it offended the wrong people.

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I'm not gonna repost the beginning of Midnight Tides(book 5), chapter two. Just refer to it from my earlier post.

But does no one have any comments about either the passage itself, or what I've said about it ?

On a side note, I found Book 6, The Bonehunters, to start off kinda slow. But I'm now past the half way point, and its Def picked up speed. Wasn't as excited about this book as some of the previous books at first, but as he's done each time so far, Erickson delivers.

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I'm not gonna repost the beginning of Midnight Tides(book 5), chapter two. Just refer to it from my earlier post.

But does no one have any comments about either the passage itself, or what I've said about it ?

On a side note, I found Book 6, The Bonehunters, to start off kinda slow. But I'm now past the half way point, and its Def picked up speed. Wasn't as excited about this book as some of the previous books at first, but as he's done each time so far, Erickson delivers.

 

Bonehunters is one of the best books in the series. Enjoy.

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You're right. First quarter of the book is too slow, and he jumps all over for character to character, and you only are given a small piece of each of their story at a time.

 

So it seems kind of tedious, but after the half way point and into the last third of the book, all those random storylines for each of the many different characters that were following, all start to converge. And I'm paused right now, about 60 to 70 percent into Bonehunters, but atm the series is as good as it gets.

 

You know, all series have their UPS and downs, but this for me is one of the high points. It's VERY good. I'm stuck at work from 11am til 10pm, and I can't wait to get off and get back to where I was finally forced to stop myself last night, or I wouldn't have gotten any sleep at all.

 

Not trying to spoil things, but this Bottle character is starting to interest me. He seems potentially very powerful, but one of those guys that are unaware of it. I can't say that I actually "like" the character, though. I mean he's too likable. A nice guy. Type of guy that says Yes Sir and No Ma'am. He's unique and interesting, definitely a change from the norm of cocky badasses who know they're baddasses. But I dunno. Seems too boring. I like the cocky ones.

 

But I got off track. This book is kicking major butt right now. I'm at the point where it SEEMS that all these different major players are all about to cross paths at the same time. Could be epic.

 

And another thought I've had. After seeing so much Karsa bashing in a lot of different threads, mostly people just claiming to either just not enjoy his storyline or his character itself, I've had to disagree completely. I'm loving both Karsa, and his progression through the books plot. He's just THE BADASS of badasses. And I've said this already, but it just keeps growing more true. Don't spoil it for me, but can he be stopped or not. I'm actually kind of confused about a few aspects of Karsa. For one, has he, or is he not getting immensely more powerful as the days pass. Or is he just realizing it. Also, he seems to have been much more powerful than those of his tribe, like he was different perhaps. And most importantly, I want to know exactly what the hell he truly is. Or what the hell a Toblokai actually is. Anyway. Til next post.

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You're right. First quarter of the book is too slow, and he jumps all over for character to character, and you only are given a small piece of each of their story at a time.

 

So it seems kind of tedious, but after the half way point and into the last third of the book, all those random storylines for each of the many different characters that were following, all start to converge. And I'm paused right now, about 60 to 70 percent into Bonehunters, but atm the series is as good as it gets.

 

You know, all series have their UPS and downs, but this for me is one of the high points. It's VERY good. I'm stuck at work from 11am til 10pm, and I can't wait to get off and get back to where I was finally forced to stop myself last night, or I wouldn't have gotten any sleep at all.

 

Not trying to spoil things, but this Bottle character is starting to interest me. He seems potentially very powerful, but one of those guys that are unaware of it. I can't say that I actually "like" the character, though. I mean he's too likable. A nice guy. Type of guy that says Yes Sir and No Ma'am. He's unique and interesting, definitely a change from the norm of cocky badasses who know they're baddasses. But I dunno. Seems too boring. I like the cocky ones.

 

But I got off track. This book is kicking major butt right now. I'm at the point where it SEEMS that all these different major players are all about to cross paths at the same time. Could be epic.

 

And another thought I've had. After seeing so much Karsa bashing in a lot of different threads, mostly people just claiming to either just not enjoy his storyline or his character itself, I've had to disagree completely. I'm loving both Karsa, and his progression through the books plot. He's just THE BADASS of badasses. And I've said this already, but it just keeps growing more true. Don't spoil it for me, but can he be stopped or not. I'm actually kind of confused about a few aspects of Karsa. For one, has he, or is he not getting immensely more powerful as the days pass. Or is he just realizing it. Also, he seems to have been much more powerful than those of his tribe, like he was different perhaps. And most importantly, I want to know exactly what the hell he truly is. Or what the hell a Toblokai actually is. Anyway. Til next post.

 

I think the problem a lot of people have with Karsa is the fact that despite evolving later on in the series, he still starts of as a murderer and a rapist. Getting past that might be understandably hard for a lot of people.

 

As for Bottle, yeah he's pretty cool. Still a poor mans Quick though. Not to mention that anyone would look bad next to the walking pile of awesome that is Fiddler.

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Not trying to spoil things, but this Bottle character is starting to interest me. He seems potentially very powerful, but one of those guys that are unaware of it. I can't say that I actually "like" the character, though. I mean he's too likable. A nice guy. Type of guy that says Yes Sir and No Ma'am. He's unique and interesting, definitely a change from the norm of cocky badasses who know they're baddasses. But I dunno. Seems too boring. I like the cocky ones.

 

You should know by this point of the story that people are not necessarily what they seem. He is a "good" guy who most definitely play the "yes sir" aspect to his advantage while going about his business on the sly. Somewhat hiding in plain site if you will.

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You're right. First quarter of the book is too slow, and he jumps all over for character to character, and you only are given a small piece of each of their story at a time.

 

So it seems kind of tedious, but after the half way point and into the last third of the book, all those random storylines for each of the many different characters that were following, all start to converge. And I'm paused right now, about 60 to 70 percent into Bonehunters, but atm the series is as good as it gets.

 

You know, all series have their UPS and downs, but this for me is one of the high points. It's VERY good. I'm stuck at work from 11am til 10pm, and I can't wait to get off and get back to where I was finally forced to stop myself last night, or I wouldn't have gotten any sleep at all.

 

Not trying to spoil things, but this Bottle character is starting to interest me. He seems potentially very powerful, but one of those guys that are unaware of it. I can't say that I actually "like" the character, though. I mean he's too likable. A nice guy. Type of guy that says Yes Sir and No Ma'am. He's unique and interesting, definitely a change from the norm of cocky badasses who know they're baddasses. But I dunno. Seems too boring. I like the cocky ones.

 

But I got off track. This book is kicking major butt right now. I'm at the point where it SEEMS that all these different major players are all about to cross paths at the same time. Could be epic.

 

And another thought I've had. After seeing so much Karsa bashing in a lot of different threads, mostly people just claiming to either just not enjoy his storyline or his character itself, I've had to disagree completely. I'm loving both Karsa, and his progression through the books plot. He's just THE BADASS of badasses. And I've said this already, but it just keeps growing more true. Don't spoil it for me, but can he be stopped or not. I'm actually kind of confused about a few aspects of Karsa. For one, has he, or is he not getting immensely more powerful as the days pass. Or is he just realizing it. Also, he seems to have been much more powerful than those of his tribe, like he was different perhaps. And most importantly, I want to know exactly what the hell he truly is. Or what the hell a Toblokai actually is. Anyway. Til next post.

 

I think the problem a lot of people have with Karsa is the fact that despite evolving later on in the series, he still starts of as a murderer and a rapist. Getting past that might be understandably hard for a lot of people.

 

As for Bottle, yeah he's pretty cool. Still a poor mans Quick though. Not to mention that anyone would look bad next to the walking pile of awesome that is Fiddler.

 

True. But I feel compelled to try to at least separate Karsa's "rape" from what moat of us know as rape. There seems to be some history of tribal "rapings", as if its a known and expected behavior of the tribal warriors when warring with each other. Two of the women even seem eager, and there is also a reference to these "rapes" as the best way to mix the bloodlines to get healthier offspring. So its not what is view as your typical, evil rape. Just felt like defending Karsa a bit.

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But does no one have any comments about either the passage itself, or what I've said about it ?
I dislike extracts to begin with, and I found your formatting of it to be deeply irritating. The writing was not good enough to keep me reading despite this.

 

 

And another thought I've had. After seeing so much Karsa bashing in a lot of different threads, mostly people just claiming to either just not enjoy his storyline or his character itself, I've had to disagree completely. I'm loving both Karsa, and his progression through the books plot. He's just THE BADASS of badasses. And I've said this already, but it just keeps growing more true. Don't spoil it for me, but can he be stopped or not. I'm actually kind of confused about a few aspects of Karsa. For one, has he, or is he not getting immensely more powerful as the days pass. Or is he just realizing it. Also, he seems to have been much more powerful than those of his tribe, like he was different perhaps. And most importantly, I want to know exactly what the hell he truly is. Or what the hell a Toblokai actually is. Anyway. Til next post.

Part of the problem lies with him being the "badass of badasses". He can be immensely boring to read. Karsa shows up, sees something he dislikes, says "Witness", destroys stuff. It got old. Where's the challenge? Where's the struggle? He just has an easy ride, because he can easily beat any problem he comes across. Consequently, he comes across to the reader as a Gary Stu. Also, he went from being a murderer and rapist to wanting to destroy civilisation - raising his sights, but hardly a goal most people will want to cheer on.
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Yeah, sorry for the format of the extract. I did it on a cell phone, and seem to be without options on the formatting. I like that chapter. I think the writing is perfect. And I absolutely love it when Karsa smashes things.

Thanks for at least replying. A completely different, 180 degree turn opinion is the way of the world. Now if I can only get a few more tongues a waggin'.

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Just finished Orb, Sceptre, Throne and thought it was ICE's best Malazan book to date. Far more enjoyable than any of the others (not that I didn't like them as well). Although I know I have a rather unconventional view on his books (ROTCG is far better than Stonewielder imo).

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Yeah, I've only recently heard of him. I wanted to read ICEs first book before I started Bonehunters, but I'm almost done with Bonehunters so ill read it next.

Have been hearing that reading his first book fits in nice right before Bonehunters, but oh well. Hopefully right after will suffice.

It's kind of bad ass, actually. Having these two authors have their characters cross over into each others paths and histories.

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Nasty spoiler

 

Spoiler tag? :tongue:

 

As for ICE's books. The only really important thing is that you read both Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard before Toll The Hounds. Stonewielder and Orb Sceptre Throne can be read after The Crippled God.

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Just finished The Bonehunters. I hate this damn series. I hope I never see another Malazan book as long as I live.

They're both dead! Both of them! Why dear god, why? My spirit is broken RL. I've lost my way.

I shall now become to our world, what Icarium was to Malazan. Which means I shall require someone to follow me around and hit me over the head when I start bustin' caps with, what will most likely be, a Nerf Launcher.

Those were my two fav chars. And one my super favorite. I've fallen into despair.

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Just finished The Bonehunters. I hate this damn series. I hope I never see another Malazan book as long as I live.

They're both dead! Both of them! Why dear god, why? My spirit is broken RL. I've lost my way.

I shall now become to our world, what Icarium was to Malazan. Which means I shall require someone to follow me around and hit me over the head when I start bustin' caps with, what will most likely be, a Nerf Launcher.

Those were my two fav chars. And one my super favorite. I've fallen into despair.

 

I'm confused (its been a while since I went through the books), who died?

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Just finished The Bonehunters. I hate this damn series. I hope I never see another Malazan book as long as I live.

They're both dead! Both of them! Why dear god, why? My spirit is broken RL. I've lost my way.

I shall now become to our world, what Icarium was to Malazan. Which means I shall require someone to follow me around and hit me over the head when I start bustin' caps with, what will most likely be, a Nerf Launcher.

Those were my two fav chars. And one my super favorite. I've fallen into despair.

It's a shame you feel that way. If you don't read on, you won't discover if the characters come back from the dead or not.
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I know. I doubted either was gone for good. Especially where one of them ended up being drug into. And the other, well, what better way to go than against potentially one of the most powerful creatures around.

 

I couldn't find ANYTHING by Esslemont at the book store . Was gonna get night of knives or whatever, but got reaper's gale instead.

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