Mafia Discussion: Game Balance

[Verbal32]

If I had jumped in when one side was up, I would have screwed my players out of their chances for brilliance.

 

My thoughts exactly.  Only jump in to correct a mistake.  Not to help out a losing team...you never know.

 

 

 

I've run the Double Blind 3 times, each time with a different outcome - but in one case, the mafia won by dominating (lost 1 man), and in another, the town picked off the mafia 1-2-3.  Same game, same roles, two (different) lopsided wins.  And the third time? It did come down to 2 on 1.  That's balance.

 

*grumble*  I was the 1 mafia left in that last game - I actually thought I had it for a sec....doh.

[Talya]

I have to agree with Kivam and Wes here (I think Alys said it as well) you can't change a game once it has started. Doesn't mean you can't have scenarios set up in the game and the players have to choose something and depending on what they choose, it will depend what happens. That has already been worked out. The Suras games is a classic example of this, which I agree with Alys on it being one of the best games, the other was the zombie in Florida one, that was done on here and MyndJack, that was great too. I would never change a game midway through to help any side, or to give them a helping hand back into the game.

 

I also think that Mods should stay away from QT's and only post to may get them to post in the game. Sometimes without thinking, things can come out when you start talking there, or it could be seen as helping that team. And certainly giving no hints. Anything like that the Mod should only do on the game thread, so all can see.

 

A mod should be posting on the game thread often as well. If the Mod is absent I think that interest soon drops off. A mod helps to keep it going but interacting in the game. Answer Questions (or not ;)) in the game thread and making sure there are regular updated vote counts. If you, as a mod are keen on the game, then that feeling can spread throughout the game.

 

:)

[LilyElizabeth]

I'm a very active mod and post on the QT's. But then, I encourage my players to ask questions. I may or may not tell you, but if you don't ask, you'll never know. I think it encourages them to be active. In my last game, I had the newbie partners on one QT, and I gave them a lot of info, basically things the other side would know. I felt that I may have gone too far, so I gave the mafia some stuff, too. I'm new. I make mistakes, but I'm learning....lol.

[WWWwombat]

Also, you can spam in QTs :) (is thinking of the Dinsey mason QT with 2¹⁰ posts)

[LilyElizabeth]

That also encourages participation. The more excited players get, the more they play.

[Talya]

Sometimes more things go on in the QT's than on the game thread, lol.

 

I understand what you did Lily, I maybe think that you can give things away, without realising it and it can make it unfair, then if you try to balance it it can go wrong. I'm not saying thats what happened in your game. But I have to admit I was uneasy about your participation in the QT. But then we all learn from our mistakes or accidents ;) But I think it can be something that can easily be abused if not intentially, and even mods can then get carried away :D

 

I think I learnt something from it too. I know how easy it is to want to be involved in the game.

 

Oh for the days of MSN and PM's to communicate lol

[Alys Kinch]

Lol, talya. i remember the days of stacked quotes a mile long or joint msn chats and alternate chats behind someone's back because there were factions and added roles.

[LilyElizabeth]

That is so frustrating. I tried it once for about one game day. Give me a QT any day.

 

[Talya]

Lol, talya. i remember the days of stacked quotes a mile long or joint msn chats and alternate chats behind someone's back because there were factions and added roles.

 

I forgot those chats too, see, these kids these days just have it so easy :D Trying to balance all those different convo's, there certainly were something.

[LilyElizabeth]

Yeah, and we have cell phones, too, grandmas. *giggle* Just teasing you gals...

 

[Thorum]

I'm not opposed to maffia confering via cell phones. I'm not paying, however. In my last game, I'd have to call three Americans. At 1.56 € per minute :( (that's 2.11 $)

[WWWwombat]

Skype 4tw I guess.  I don't have a mic tho =\

[Talya]

Msn or Skype works...you can tyupe with Skype too Wombat, lol...

 

Now where is my Zimmer Frame ;)

[LilyElizabeth]

I think I did a poor job of making my point. I was referring to the "kids these days" comment. I'm probably older than both of you. *giggle*

 

[Talya]

hehe...I know, I thought it was pretty funny, besides I like my zimmer frame ;)

[LilyElizabeth]

bump

[WWWwombat]

Should role assignment be completely random or should it be tweaked for balance concerns?

[Kivam]

Should role assignment be completely random or should it be tweaked for balance concerns?

 

Let me put it this way - if it's tweaked for balance purposes (which can be done on a case by case basis, but should be rare), don't tell your players.

[WWWwombat]

Thanks Kivs ;)

[Talya]

I tend to do it randomly and only the odd tweak if I feel that there are too many inexperienced on one team. I think I may have done this once, but like Kivam said you never mention it. Random.com is my friend for anything in mafia because I don't want to influence the game...of course before I used Random, I got my daughter to should number between 1 and whatever and marked it down against the roles then looked at what number people signed in as and went with that...lol

[Verbal32]

Should role assignment be completely random or should it be tweaked for balance concerns?

 

Let me put it this way - if it's tweaked for balance purposes (which can be done on a case by case basis, but should be rare), don't tell your players.

 

^ This.

 

I've done it once, and it was because a key role was randomly assigned to the most inactive player on my signup list. I knew that player would not use the role, and barely play, but my game was balanced to that # of players and there were no others available. In that case, I swapped that player with an active one. Results? Inactive player ignored the game and was lynched by town for inactivity. The switched player went to endgame before losing.

[Alanna]

I do it randomly, but have also tweaked due to players who I know will be inactive. You have to be careful not to go overboard with this though. It probably should really just be done if it realy might affect game balance, like in Verb's example - having an inactive player in a role that could really affect the game can really change the outcome. Wheras one inactive townie probably won't swing things as much one way or the other (though when you've got many inactive townies, that can definitely do real damage).

[LilyElizabeth]

I'm glad this thread got bumped up. It has some good stuff on it.

 

I agree with Kiv and Verb. Do what you have to, but don't let the players know.

[alannalynn]

See? I'd love to mod eventually but the idea of balance? I'm at a total loss for it. I get it in a general sense, but no matter how many wiki pages, or forum discussions I read, I still don't quite get it. How do you even know if a game is balanced? Bleh!

[WWWwombat]

See? I'd love to mod eventually but the idea of balance? I'm at a total loss for it. I get it in a general sense, but no matter how many wiki pages, or forum discussions I read, I still don't quite get it. How do you even know if a game is balanced? Bleh!

 

I just ask Kivam xD