"Odd" Darkfriends (possible spoilers)

[mb]

This thread is to be about groups where it would seem odd to have darkfriends in.

 

These groups came in my mind::

-Tuatha'an (their motto seems to be no violence at all; darkfriends generally do violence)

-Borderlanders (all seem to be sworn to fight the Dark One from like their birth)

-Third Age Aiel (they also seem sworn to fight the Dark One)

-Seanchan (most seem/seemed to consider Shadowspawn as superstition)

-Whitecloaks (their rules seem all about fighting the Dark One)

 

"Exceptions"::

-Tuatha'an might be enticed from being promised the Song

-Borderlanders might join from getting tired from fighting Shadowspawn or might get captured

-Aiel, chance of conversion if channeling males ever return

-Seanchan, some might have journeyed to the northern area of their continent and been convinced/captured there

-Whitecloaks; similar cause as Borderlanders, but Darkfriends instead of Shadowspawn

 

 

You may comment on these and/or may bring up other groups.

 

[Kadere]

But we've already seen Darkfriends in 4 of those categories at least. From the Tuatha'an we have the unnamed Darkfriend Tinker from TGH's Prologue. From the boarderlands we have Cowin Gemallan Fairheart, Changu, Nidao, and Ingtar of course. From the Seanchan there's of course Suroth and Zaired Elbar. And in the Children of the Light there's obviously Jaichim Carridin.

[ravenfier]

And we cant forget the aiel lady that matt hooked up with who was a drakfriend, as well as the writer of the mysterious note that, whats his face, the darkfriend trader, recived.

 

As it was stated Darkfriends come in all walks of life, from the very poor to the ruleing class. If we were to think it odd to find Darkfriends anywhere it would have been the White tower, but as we have seen, maybe upto 1/4 of them were (cant remeber the exact count of how many were killed in the purge v.s the number of sisters there were before the split.)  Tho on that supject one must now wonder if Egwene will send out an order to kill on sight and Black sister from the 3rd group, the group that was holding itself aside when the tower split.

[Pikapi]

Out of those groups, the ones I found most surprising in terms of Darkfriends were the Tuatha'an, Borderlanders, and the Whitecloaks. Tuatha'an are sworn against violence, but Darkfriends can be violent. Borderlanders protect the Borderlands from the Blight, but some of them, like Ingtar, got sick of the endless work of making sure the Blight didn't take over the Borderlands, so why not go over to a side that seemed to be winning, or at least looked more profitable? Whitecloaks hate Darkfriends (real and imagined) but that's not to say that some of them might've been a little less committed to the ideals of the Whitecloaks than most, so it stands to reason they went over to the DO. Or I could be 100% off about the reasoning. Maybe the Darkfriend Whitecloaks joined the "dark side" for an entirely different reason.

 

And of course, the AS. The least likely candidates for Darkfriends, but we've got the Black Ajah, sitting there pretty as you please. Liandrin, for example, iirc, joined the Black Ajah hours after being raised to the Red, so if AS, why not anyone else, like a king, or a Tuatha'an, or a Borderlander, or anyone else from any walk of life you care to name?

[Mhoram]

Of all those, Tinkers are the most surprising, but we've already seen with Aram and in the Aiel-history flashback that the Way of the Leaf isn't binding if you cease believing in it, and that it can lead to a lot of frustration and anger at the world - fertile ground for the DO.  There's only so much running away, from everyone down to pre-teen girls with sharp sticks, you can take before you get sick of ALWAYS having to run. 

 

Whitecloaks are not surprising at all.  For every sincere holy warrior convinced of the need to walk in the light and only do good, like Galad, there would be 99 others who were in it because it gave them status, power and the ability to consider themselves better than others.  What's the actual difference between Questioners and the worst Darkfriends in reality?  Again, this is extremely easy for the DO to manipulate.

 

Borderlanders - there are always those who'll decide the fight they're in is futile and try appeasement/getting on the winning side.

 

Seachan - not surprising at all really.

 

AS - they're such a dysfunctional bunch, so given to hunger to power, factions, secrets, and getting off on being 'better' than anyone else, that they're the least surprising of the lot actually, although you have to give the BA points for operating in a risky environment.  It's like spy movies - the people who turn the most often are the watchdogs who are meant to protect the community as a whole from the threat.

[Pikapi]

Actually, the main reason I was surprised at it manifesting in AS was the fact that technically speaking, they're supposed to protect the world from the DO, and oppose Darkfriends and Shadowspawn, etc, etc. But reading over the books a few times, after a while, I came to realize that they have the same failings as anyone else, and those failings can be exploited - case in point, the BA. But you've got to give props to the BA for operating right under the AS's noses, so to speak.

 

For every sincere holy warrior convinced of the need to walk in the light and only do good, like Galad, there would be 99 others who were in it because it gave them status, power and the ability to consider themselves better than others.  What's the actual difference between Questioners and the worst Darkfriends in reality?  Again, this is extremely easy for the DO to manipulate.

 

Y'know, I never thought about it that way before. But it makes sense now that I think about it. Not everyone is part of a holy warrior society for the simple fact of wanting to protect the world. Some of them are in it just to look good in the eyes of others, or for status points and the like. Yeah, fertile grounds for the DO to corrupt them and turn them to his own ends.

 

About the Tinkers (or one of them in particular), I don't think Aram was ever really happy with the Way of the Leaf, even in tEotW - didn't Ila or Raen say something to that effect? Maybe he was already getting sick of running, even back then. And of course, when he took up that sword in tDR, well, that was the end of the Way for him. Not that Aram turned to being a Darkfriend, of course, (though when he tried to kill Perrin in KoD ...) but he's an example of how a Tinker could (and has, as per the Darkfriend social in tGH) be turned to the Dark One, simply by dint of the fact that he or she was sick and tired of running, and wanted to do something other than turn the other cheek all the bloody time.

[Beer Rot]

Are DF whitecloaks anymore surprising than corrupt and evil religious leaders?

[delathi]

With DF Whitecloaks, there is also the timing to take into account. What is to say they are not a DF before joining up in an attempt to infiltrate?

 

Harder to do for the other groups, although it could be done by a young Aes Sedai. The Aes Sedai also have the option of 13 + 13 Fades forcing a turn to the shadow, they can recruit a little easier.

 

Aiel and Borderlanders have the same failings as everyone else; lust for power, dispair, greed.. how easy would it be to turn down the promise of eternal life and dominion over the people you don't like?

[Tom Sawyer]

The oddest Darkfriend that I found in the series was not a group but a person.  That would be Delana.

 

Her POV when it was revealed that she was a DF was just weird.  It was right after Suian was healed from her stilling and everyone found out that she was now much weaker in the Power.  Delana was going on about how Suian used to look out for her when she'd been stronger and now that the situation was reversed, she was going to do the same because Suian's a good friend and good friends do that for each other because she's a nice person and it's the right thing to do ... oh, but she's evil.  ???

 

It made even less sense than Sheriam turning out to be a DF.

[Dredlord]

None of those categories would really surprise me, and as has been shown we have already seen DFs in every category listed lol. but you didn't state one category I think everybody would be surprised to find DFs in... Ogiers.

[chuckievi]

I think they key here is that people are people.  Whatever background they come from, everyone has their secret desires and quirks.  When those are usable by the DO, they are and you have darkfriends.  

[Crael123]

i dont think there would be any differece between a "good whitecloak" and a DF whitecloak. they are all superior asses

[mb]

The Aes Sedai also have the option of 13 + 13 Fades forcing a turn to the shadow, they can recruit a little easier.

Channeling through 13 myrddraal, that technique works on channelers.  The books do not tell anybody else.

 

But we've already seen Darkfriends in 4 of those categories at least. From the Tuatha'an we have the unnamed Darkfriend Tinker from TGH's Prologue. From the boarderlands we have Cowin Gemallan Fairheart, Changu, Nidao, and Ingtar of course. From the Seanchan there's of course Suroth and Zaired Elbar. And in the Children of the Light there's obviously Jaichim Carridin.

Their being seen was in the back of my mind when I posted about them.

 

[Taryntula]

Is it even possible for an Ogier to be a DF? I know their are Ogier with the Seanchan, but that doesn't make them evil. Do Ogiers even have the ability to be a DF? Nothing says they are goverened by the same selfish (and hasty *wink*) nature of humans. What if the Creator made them to be unable to become DFs? We haven't seen any Ogier DFs, so do they exist?

[Pikapi]

i dont think there would be any differece between a "good whitecloak" and a DF whitecloak. they are all superior asses

 

Oh, that they are!

[Shryke]

as others have already stated, i think DF Ogiers would be the strangest

 

have we seen any DF rulers at all?

there was Barthanes, but he wasn't king. there was Suroth, but she was a High Lady

[Mhoram]

Surprise character twist for Loial coming up!  And I bet it was him who killed Asmodean!  :o :o  :D

[Durinax]

as others have already stated, i think DF Ogiers would be the strangest

 

have we seen any DF rulers at all?

there was Barthanes, but he wasn't king. there was Suroth, but she was a High Lady

from what we've seen there are probably no df rulers, easier to keep to the shadows as #2 and use the great game to make the ruler do what you want without you catching any flak from the populous

[mb]

Ogier darkfriends, there might be a possibility of that since some have attempted to lie.

 

Darkfriend rulers, a number of the Forsaken might have came close to that.

Black Ajah head/heads might be another candidate. And there was a Black that was also the head of her other Ajah.

 

[scion9]

Both the Whitecloaks and the Aes Sedai seem incredibly likely to harbor darkfriends since both are obnoxiously easy to infiltrate.  There is apparently near zero suspicion with most Aes Sedai that there could be darkfriends in their midst for the entire history of the white tower until a handful of years before the Last Battle occurs.  The level of incompetence displayed is staggering.

 

The whitecloaks we know less about, regarding internal purges, et cetera than the Aes Sedai but they seem worse, stupider, blinder, et al.

[Asnos]

I think that the white cloaks are based on the Catholic church. They were VERY corrupt at one point.

[Shadow Rider]

There is a lot of talk about dark friends but what about Lightfriends.... ;D....

Trollics turned  to the light and Fades.....

I know I know ....stupid thought...

 

[Durinax]

I think that the white cloaks are based on the Catholic church. They were VERY corrupt at one point.

I think both the whitecloaks and certain aspects of the white tower reflect the catholic church. and the church has always been corrupt if you ask me

[Shadow Rider]

I think that the white cloaks are based on the Catholic church. They were VERY corrupt at one point.

 

What do you mean..."at one point"...at what point were they not corrupt?

[Majsju]

From RJs blog,

the Whitecloaks were inspired by the Inquisition, the SS, the Teutonic Knights and others.  In fact, they were inspired by all those groups who say, “We know the truth.  It is the only truth.  You will believe it, or we will kill you.”