Moraine and The Tower of Ghenjei

[mhael784]

Moraine gave the letter telling how to rescue her to Thom instead of Mat. It seems likely that Moraine is living in the Tower of Ghenjei since Lanfear survived as Cyndane. Mat seems likely to take Noal when he goes with Thom to rescue Moraine.

 

What will the reprecutions before Thom, Lan, Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne, Aviendha, Rand, Siuan, Leane, Mat and Perrin if she is rescued?

 

Who exactaly is Noal Charin?

[Vhar Khoebhan Xudan]

Noal Charin is Jain Farstrider's cousin. Or so he claims; most speculate he is actually Jain Farstrider.

 

 

Edit: This seems like the wrong spot to put this; I'm not sure. Hoping a moderator can decide and move/not move this topic.  :-[

[Crael123]

noal charin is jain farstrider. it is obvious

[Dero]

I mean i think he is Jain Farstrider too, but it was obvious to most people that Taim was Demandred and Olver was Gaidal Cain. 

[Nethran Thaimal]

Jain Farstrider disappears in 981 NE after a trip into the Blight. (TEotW,Glossary) Early printings of TEotW give an incorrect date of 994 NE.

 

About twenty years ago, Jain Charin arrives at Stedding Shangtai near death. He quickly gets well in the stedding. He leaves suddenly, but while he is there he tells the Ogier that he plans to carry a message to Tar Valon that the Dark One intents to blind the Eye of the World. (TEotW,Ch42)

 

Disillusioned after the death of his beloved wife and his misuse at the hands of Ishamael, Jain Charin ends his life of adventure and uses the name Noal Charin.

 

Darkfriend, but a hero.  He almost gets killed by Ishy, I'm assuming, after learning the DO's plan, but manages to escape to the safety of the stedding.  The results of his torture are visible in his badly broken but now-healed hands.

[mhael784]

Where does it say in the books that say Noal is Jain Farstrider?

It seems that when Jain was tortured by Ishmael he became a darkfiend. I does make sense that Noal is Jain Charin.

 

Noal is probably the old man seen speaking to Graendal when Moridin shows up in Arad Doman.

[Majsju]

 

 

Noal is probably the old man seen speaking to Graendal when Moridin shows up in Arad Doman.

 

Or, an old man from Arad Doman who we know for a fact that Graendal abducted...

[mhael784]

Noal can't be from Arad Doman if we is Jain Charin's cousin because Jain was born in the Borderlands

[Majsju]

Who said anything about Noal being from Arad Doman?

[Nethran Thaimal]

Noal is Jain Charin is Jain Farstrider.  I didn't think there was really any reason for speculation here.. It's pretty clear in the books, imo.

[mb]

There were past threads that speculated about Noal.

His stories about Shara indicate that he is Jain Farstrider.

 

 

About Moiraine's rescue, she might marry Thom.  Afterward, she might go to Rand and again be his adviser.

Mat, one of Egwene's Dreams told that he would experience pain about the rescue; I think emotional pain.

The rest might be surprised that she is alive the moment they find out.

 

[Luckers]

Where does it say in the books that say Noal is Jain Farstrider?

It seems that when Jain was tortured by Ishmael he became a darkfiend. I does make sense that Noal is Jain Charin.

 

Noal is probably the old man seen speaking to Graendal when Moridin shows up in Arad Doman.

 

The evidence for Noal is in the comparisons between them--that Noal and Jain had the same travels might be possible, but consider the genuine love, bitterness and pain in Noal's voice when he speaks of Jain's wife dying. That is not a cousin's love. And Noal, if he is the man on the barrel, has the same injuries and same memory problems that resulted from what Ishamael did to Jain.

 

There is no suggestion Jain became a darkfriend--Ishamael even speaks of sending him off like a fool.

 

And its far more likely Graendal's old man is Alsalam.

[ed2funy]

I think Moiraine's coming back will obviously be a huge shocker.

 

Thom: He will want to know the info she promised him. I think they will get married, or fall in love. They might be bonded.

 

Lan: The fact that she is alive might help counter the psychoness in his head a little. He will still respect her, but there was never any love. 

 

Egwene: "Hi Moiraine! Kiss my Great Serpent Ring." Egwene will be happy she is alive and declare a day of celebration or something.

 

Nynaeve: Nynaeve might be a little strong at first in confronting her, especially since she was last a novice when she saw her (Or Accepted?). But they will be friends of a sort.

 

Elayne: She didn't have as much interaction with her, but aren't they related somehow? She will ask her to be Queen of Cairhien and be her ally.

 

Aviendha: I don't remember her POV's about Moiraine, but she had some respect for her, no? If not, she will now...maybe

 

Siuan: "OMG! You're alive?" Crying ensues....pillow-friend time ensues. (Yay!) They discuss what they did wrong, and move on.

 

Leane: There wasn't much interaction here. She will share in the general joy to have an Aes Sedai back.

 

Mat: He might hate to admit it, but he has respect for her. He will be happy to see her, but then again, not really. Maybe he might discuss his memories and everything now.

 

Perrin: Pretty much the same as Mat.

 

Rand: "You're alive?!?!?! OMG....I thought you were dead! You were a mark on my soul."

*crying ensues...as does hugs and requests for her becoming his advisor of some sort*

A lot will happen between these two.

 

[shinerfan]

I seem to remember a passage somewhere that described Alsalam as very handsome and even more vain. Maybe this was referring to some other king, I can't remember which book it was in. And while there's no reason to think that an old, old man can't be both handsome and vain, to me this reads like a younger man. Does anyone remember this?

[Majsju]

You seem to remember wrong, as Alsalam is at least not handsome enough for Graendals tastes.

Also, he has been king for over twenty years.

[mhael784]

Even if he was king for over 20 years he still could be fairly young. I mean look at King Tut of ancient Egypt. He ascended the throne at age 8. It could  have been the same for Alsalam

[ed2funy]

I doubt he took the throne that young.

The youngest we know of seems to be Morgase at like 16 right?

[Mablir Dorlig]

I think Moiraine's coming back will obviously be a huge shocker.

 

I thought this was obvious from the time of Moiraines death onwards? Shocker - not by any stretch of the imagination

 

Thom: He will want to know the info she promised him. I think they will get married, or fall in love. They might be bonded.

 

Again I'm sure no one saw this, lol, here's a thought what if Thom can learn to channel Saidin and bonds Moiraine? (I've not read TGS yet so this is pure speculation)

 

Lan: The fact that she is alive might help counter the psychoness in his head a little. He will still respect her, but there was never any love.  

 

OMG, you don't say - Lans' "psychoness" existed before Moiraine came on the scene, why/how would her return help it? Without the "psychoness" how would he survive Nynaeve?

 

Egwene: "Hi Moiraine! Kiss my Great Serpent Ring." Egwene will be happy she is alive and declare a day of celebration or something.

Actually probably the closest to a sensible suggestion, although I doubt it will  be a cause for celebration.

 

Nynaeve: Nynaeve might be a little strong at first in confronting her, especially since she was last a novice when she saw her (Or Accepted?). But they will be friends of a sort.

 

I very much doubt these two would ever be friendly, BTW Nynaeve was never a novice, she went straight to Accepted even though she had a block

 

Elayne: She didn't have as much interaction with her, but aren't they related somehow? She will ask her to be Queen of Cairhien and be her ally.

 

Elayne, who tries to live by ji-e-toh will ask the sister(?) of Laman (The Treekiller) to be Queen and an ally - sure to impress Aviendha, Bain, Chiad, et al a second Aiel War?

 

Aviendha: I don't remember her POV's about Moiraine, but she had some respect for her, no? If not, she will now...maybe

 

Aviendha just showed the general regard that Aiel had for Aes Sedai until they realised that the Aes Sedai had forgotten all that made them Aes Sedai, she's more likely to be upset with her if she ever discovers that Moiraine questioned whether she should bed Rand...

 

Siuan: "OMG! You're alive?" Crying ensues....pillow-friend time ensues. (Yay!) They discuss what they did wrong, and move on.

 

Pillow Friend? What do Thom & Gareth Bryne think of that? This could unite them in hatred of each other

 

Leane: There wasn't much interaction here. She will share in the general joy to have an Aes Sedai back.

 

Oh what general joy, I remember all the other Aes Sedai falling over deliriously happy when they found out that Cadsuanne had returned? Also for the Reds Toveine was wonderfully loved upon her return

 

Mat: He might hate to admit it, but he has respect for her. He will be happy to see her, but then again, not really. Maybe he might discuss his memories and everything now.

 

Mat is always happy to see any Aes Sedai, not. He's also so open to talking with anyone about his memories, the only time I can recall this happening was when he and Birgitte got drunk together and talked about their memories - possibly also some times with Olver but that maybe to do with Olvers ties with Birgitte

 

Perrin: Pretty much the same as Mat.

 

Perrin is more likely to have the same opinion of Moiraine as Faile - ie considered tolerance - although he will have the same general indifference as Mat

 

Rand: "You're alive?!?!?! OMG....I thought you were dead! You were a mark on my soul."

*crying ensues...as does hugs and requests for her becoming his advisor of some sort*

 

I think it is stated that Cadsuanne will teach Rand to cry (and laugh) and she is also his advisor, no space for Moiraine

 

Rand:

A lot will happen between these two.

 

Min, Aviendha and Elayne will ensure that "Not a lot" will happen, also Moiraine knows that if "a lot" happens between them then the Dark One will triumph - unless you think that Moiraine and Lanfear have swapped bodies and so Lanfear thinks that this will lead to the triumph of the Dark and Rands victory over the Dark One (leaving her and Rand to rule)

 

I'm sorry to be so -ve but really...

 

 

 

 

[acerbus80]

Couple of points here...

 

I thought the information that Moirane promised to give Thom was the identities of the red sisters that had gentled his nephew, and I was under the impression that that was written in the letter he has.

 

Lan...As he said to Rand after Moraine and Lanfear fell into the doorway, the bond was gone.  To me it seems like it was severed, similar to stilling or gentling, and her return won't simply make the bond return.  If that were the case, Lan would have felt the bond dissapear when Moraine entered the terangreals the first time and wouldn't have gone all "psychoness" about it this time.

 

As far as Rand goes, she is probably the only Aes Sedai he can/will truly trust, and if I remember correctly, wasn't there some prophecy or viewing that alludes to Rand's success being tied to Moraine being present?

[Majsju]

Couple of points here...

 

I thought the information that Moirane promised to give Thom was the identities of the red sisters that had gentled his nephew, and I was under the impression that that was written in the letter he has.

 

No, the names are not in the letter.

 

Lan...As he said to Rand after Moraine and Lanfear fell into the doorway, the bond was gone.  To me it seems like it was severed, similar to stilling or gentling, and her return won't simply make the bond return.  If that were the case, Lan would have felt the bond dissapear when Moraine entered the terangreals the first time and wouldn't have gone all "psychoness" about it this time.

 

The bond was severed because Moiraine was burned out. The only other thing we know can sever a bond is death, and we know Moiraine is not dead.

 

As far as Rand goes, she is probably the only Aes Sedai he can/will truly trust, and if I remember correctly, wasn't there some prophecy or viewing that alludes to Rand's success being tied to Moraine being present?

 

Min had at least one viewing showing that Rand would fail without Moiraine.

[ed2funy]

Thom: He will want to know the info she promised him. I think they will get married, or fall in love. They might be bonded.

 

Again I'm sure no one saw this, lol, here's a thought what if Thom can learn to channel Saidin and bonds Moiraine? (I've not read TGS yet so this is pure speculation)

 

I wouldn't count on it, but it a possibility.

 

Lan: The fact that she is alive might help counter the psychoness in his head a little. He will still respect her, but there was never any love. 

 

OMG, you don't say - Lans' "psychoness" existed before Moiraine came on the scene, why/how would her return help it? Without the "psychoness" how would he survive Nynaeve?

 

:D He was fine...Nyn rocks. :P

 

Egwene: "Hi Moiraine! Kiss my Great Serpent Ring." Egwene will be happy she is alive and declare a day of celebration or something.

Actually probably the closest to a sensible suggestion, although I doubt it will  be a cause for celebration.

Egwene is Amrylin and she traveled with Moiraine a lot. I am pretty sure Egwene will be happy an AS is back....especially one Rand trusts.

 

Nynaeve: Nynaeve might be a little strong at first in confronting her, especially since she was last a novice when she saw her (Or Accepted?). But they will be friends of a sort.

 

I very much doubt these two would ever be friendly, BTW Nynaeve was never a novice, she went straight to Accepted even though she had a block

 

Totally forgot about Nyn not being a novice. :D wow.....I think they might be. Nyn can set a lot of things aside to help Rand.

 

Elayne: She didn't have as much interaction with her, but aren't they related somehow? She will ask her to be Queen of Cairhien and be her ally.

 

Elayne, who tries to live by ji-e-toh will ask the sister(?) of Laman (The Treekiller) to be Queen and an ally - sure to impress Aviendha, Bain, Chiad, et al a second Aiel War?

 

She is Laman's niece. And Moiraine becoming Queen is just my own personal theory....it would be awesome...Even though in NS she pretty much left the Tower to avoid it. But it is possible. I have seen crazier things on DM.

 

Aviendha: I don't remember her POV's about Moiraine, but she had some respect for her, no? If not, she will now...maybe

 

Aviendha just showed the general regard that Aiel had for Aes Sedai until they realised that the Aes Sedai had forgotten all that made them Aes Sedai, she's more likely to be upset with her if she ever discovers that Moiraine questioned whether she should bed Rand...

 

At the time, even Aviendha didn't want to. Also, being Rand's girl, she wouldn't do anything to her.

 

Siuan: "OMG! You're alive?" Crying ensues....pillow-friend time ensues. (Yay!) They discuss what they did wrong, and move on.

 

Pillow Friend? What do Thom & Gareth Bryne think of that? This could unite them in hatred of each other

 

:D Or in other ways. :P

 

Leane: There wasn't much interaction here. She will share in the general joy to have an Aes Sedai back.

 

Oh what general joy, I remember all the other Aes Sedai falling over deliriously happy when they found out that Cadsuanne had returned? Also for the Reds Toveine was wonderfully loved upon her return.

Not all AS are liked, true. But people were still sad that an AS died. There will be general joy. By general, I do not mean that every single AS will be happy....:-\

 

Mat: He might hate to admit it, but he has respect for her. He will be happy to see her, but then again, not really. Maybe he might discuss his memories and everything now.

 

Mat is always happy to see any Aes Sedai, not. He's also so open to talking with anyone about his memories, the only time I can recall this happening was when he and Birgitte got drunk together and talked about their memories - possibly also some times with Olver but that maybe to do with Olvers ties with Birgitte.

 

Meh....who knows....notice I said "maybe" and that he won't be all that happy to see her.

 

Perrin: Pretty much the same as Mat.

 

Perrin is more likely to have the same opinion of Moiraine as Faile - ie considered tolerance - although he will have the same general indifference as Mat

Same as Mat. ;D

 

Rand: "You're alive?!?!?! OMG....I thought you were dead! You were a mark on my soul."

*crying ensues...as does hugs and requests for her becoming his advisor of some sort*

 

I think it is stated that Cadsuanne will teach Rand to cry (and laugh) and she is also his advisor, no space for Moiraine

:-\ Since you haven't read TGS, I will wait to answer this fully. >.>

There might be space for her....

 

Rand:

A lot will happen between these two.

 

Min, Aviendha and Elayne will ensure that "Not a lot" will happen, also Moiraine knows that if "a lot" happens between them then the Dark One will triumph - unless you think that Moiraine and Lanfear have swapped bodies and so Lanfear thinks that this will lead to the triumph of the Dark and Rands victory over the Dark One (leaving her and Rand to rule)

 

I'm sorry to be so -ve but really...

 

Wow...glad to see you took that the wrong way...completely!

I didn't mean sexual or anything like that.

I will let you respond again if you want now that you know I didn't mean it like that.

:P

 

 

P.S. I don't think all of these are going to happen with 100% certainty...just trying to get the convo on these people going.

[acerbus80]

The bond was severed because Moiraine was burned out. The only other thing we know can sever a bond is death, and we know Moiraine is not dead.

 

How do we know she got burned out?

[Majsju]

The bond was severed because Moiraine was burned out. The only other thing we know can sever a bond is death, and we know Moiraine is not dead.

 

How do we know she got burned out?

 

The beauty of logic.

We know from Lan that the bond was severed.

We know the two ways to sever the bond, stilled/burned out and death.

We know Moiraine is not dead.

We know messing around with the OP around a ter'angreal can result in getting burned out, and if a ter'angreal melts like the doorway did, we can be quite sure the women did something they were not supposed to.

We know that the finns can be held off by a channeler.

We know neither Moiraine nor Lanfear could hold off the finns, as both became prisoners, with a very high probability of Lanfear actually dying while imprisoned.

We know Lanfear was burned out.

 

Etc, etc.

 

Simply a matter of taking the great deal of information that is out there, and put the pieces together.

[NetSlider]

Where does it say in the books that say Noal is Jain Farstrider?

It seems that when Jain was tortured by Ishmael he became a darkfiend. I does make sense that Noal is Jain Charin.

 

Noal is probably the old man seen speaking to Graendal when Moridin shows up in Arad Doman.

 

The evidence for Noal is in the comparisons between them--that Noal and Jain had the same travels might be possible, but consider the genuine love, bitterness and pain in Noal's voice when he speaks of Jain's wife dying. That is not a cousin's love. And Noal, if he is the man on the barrel, has the same injuries and same memory problems that resulted from what Ishamael did to Jain.

 

There is no suggestion Jain became a darkfriend--Ishamael even speaks of sending him off like a fool.

 

And its far more likely Graendal's old man is Alsalam.

I always thought that the old man was the old beggar darkfriend (don't remember his name).

[ROB_88]

We know Moiraine is not dead.

 

i just got to thinking, how do we know Moiraine is not dead?

so far everyone including me has assumed it but is it certain?

 

i loosely remember a qoute by Brandon about how everyone assumes she's alive that caused me to think maybe she's not.

if i could just figure out where i saw it