Elayne/Aviendha/Min/Rand really?

[jeffsim17]

I have been a sci/fi/ fantasy fan for a long time. I have read most of the most popular series in existance.

What I like most about sci/fi/fantasy is that all of the authors try to keep there humans; human. There is a lot of things about the wot series that I had a hard time with.(some one told me after I read the wot, I would hate all the woman in it) The biggest thing I have a prob with is the relation ship Rand has with the three woman.

I know this is a FANTASY series but come on!! What woman would share the man they love with any other woman even if they were the best of friends!  I have not seen anyone mention this, this series was in no doubt written by a man!  What man wouldn't want three woman in love with him, and is willing to share him. (unless maybe they are Morman?) So all you woman out there what do you think, would you really share your man?

[Leatherleaf]

Some cultures don't frown on polygamy in its different forms; in Randland, the Aiel accept it. Personally I don't agree with it, and Rand even struggles with it at times. However, from the a more universal standpoint, not everyone disagrees with having multiple wives, or even multiple husbands for that matter. I find the point made by Rand's relationships is that yes, polygamy may be a strange concept to us and people in Randland, and it is not without its hardships, but those within these relationships come to terms with it, possibly enjoy it, or they leave. In fact, some families in real life prosper on having multiple wives/mothers as a source of income, family care, and friendships. Personally, the one wife I have right now is all I could ever ask for, and I would never want another wife even if I had the choice, and I know that my wife wouldn't want to be "shared," so to speak. All I'm saying is that these relationships do occur, and are not always taboo.

 

Another thing to consider is the historical examples of Kings having many wives, concubines, and/or lovers. Rand is definitely on the level of a King, and having three lovers likely would not be too frowned upon by his peers.

 

Keeping in mind that Rand is unmarried, one could go so far as saying that Rand's relationships aren't that much different than many "Western" men (North American, European, Australian, etc.) who are unmarried (or sometimes married still) and have multiple sexual partners. His situation soon will be similar to men who have children with different women. His family is definitely not the so-called traditional nuclear family, but few real world families are nowadays either.

 

However, discussing characters as being relatable, or human, I've argued before that Rand is quite unique. Nearly any action he has had to take has been something most average people never have to do. In the case of his relationships, they are somewhat destined, and Rand, Min, Elayne, and even Aviendha have struggled with this foursome. In early books Rand considers himself worse than a lecher, but he and the women come to - or are in the process of - accept their love for each other. In a sense, their crazy relationship reflects the theme that love conquers all opposition (even opposition from within).

 

So again I will say that I am more than content with my one wife, and never want another. But I can't speak for everyone, nor should I. Rand's relationships have not been easy, nor have Elayne, Min, and Aviendha's relationships with each other, and in that sense, they are quite human responses to the situation.

[Impressive Bosom]

I have been a sci/fi/ fantasy fan for a long time. I have read most of the most popular series in existance.

What I like most about sci/fi/fantasy is that all of the authors try to keep there humans; human. There is a lot of things about the wot series that I had a hard time with.(some one told me after I read the wot, I would hate all the woman in it) The biggest thing I have a prob with is the relation ship Rand has with the three woman.

I know this is a FANTASY series but come on!! What woman would share the man they love with any other woman even if they were the best of friends!  I have not seen anyone mention this, this series was in no doubt written by a man!  What man wouldn't want three woman in love with him, and is willing to share him. (unless maybe they are Morman?) So all you woman out there what do you think, would you really share your man?

 

Honestly? My lifelong best friend and I have shared a man we love dearly and who loves us for almost five years now and look forward to a lifetime together... then again, we also share more than just him  ;)

 

Keep in mind that polyamory has existed in countless cultures since the dawn of mankind... only our modern culture breeds so much insecurity and competition into women that the thought of sharing a man who loves you both has become almost impossible to contemplate. I agree that most women here in America in this day and age would find it difficult or impossible, though perhaps not quite the overwhelming majority you imagine.

[Impressive Bosom]

One other quick point - you don't have to look any further than the Aiel for an example of this working and working very well. And both Rand and Aviendha are Aiel.

[Majsju]

I agree that most women here in America in this day and age would find it difficult or impossible, though perhaps not quite the overwhelming majority you imagine.

 

Well, RJ took this straight from his own experience. Granted, he only had two ladies, but as he said himself, if he could have two, surely the saviour of the world could have three.

[Agitel]

I'm not surprised about Avi, as it's part of her culture, and she still displays unease about Min. As for Elayne and Min, it's a bit more surprising, as they're Andoran. I believe all three have been more accepting because they know of Min's viewing, and because of that, they realize it will be and thus force themselves to accept it. Keep in mind they really haven't had to confront the issue outside of when they bonded him. Rand himself hated himself for how he felt as well.

 

I'm able to suspend the remaining disbelief because of Rand being ta'veren and the Wheel's will. I think Rand sort of NEEDS a strong support structure with his burdens, and the Wheel's seen to that. I also believe he needs two channeling women who he love's and trusts for what's to come, but I can't say more and it's still only a theory. He also needed Min, most definitely. Avi and Elayne have responsibilities that keep them away from Rand, and I think up through now Min is the rock that Rand clings to for his sanity and humanity.

 

Does it make me wonder a little about Jordan? Haha, yes, a little, but I don't think he was doing this to act out some fantasy. Women are definitely empowered and respected in Jordan's work in most other ways, including in these relationships. The Third Age is a time of gender equality, if not neutrality.

[Impressive Bosom]

I agree that most women here in America in this day and age would find it difficult or impossible, though perhaps not quite the overwhelming majority you imagine.

 

Well, RJ took this straight from his own experience. Granted, he only had two ladies, but as he said himself, if he could have two, surely the saviour of the world could have three.

 

Really? I'm not familiar with that aspect of his life...

[Impressive Bosom]

I'm not surprised about Avi, as it's part of her culture, and she still displays unease about Min. As for Elayne and Min, it's a bit more surprising, as they're Andoran. I believe all three have been more accepting because they know of Min's viewing, and because of that, they realize it will be and thus force themselves to accept it. Keep in mind they really haven't had to confront the issue outside of when they bonded him. Rand himself hated himself for how he felt as well.

 

One other factor - they almost never have to all be around one another and him at the same time. If they were all following him around like Min and he had to pick and choose who to take with him on his trips or whom to take to bed each night, I can assure you the claws would come out pretty quick no matter how understanding each tried to be.

 

There's a reason why being 'pillow friends' makes the concept of sharing go a good bit smoother.  :-*

[Vulgir]

Most Pron works out well with more than 2 people, i think it can be done.

[Impressive Bosom]

Most Pron works out well with more than 2 people, i think it can be done.

 

Don't be so... Vulgir.  ;)

[BladeDancer]

Being Tav'eren might as well be useful for something!  ;D

 

I am actually more surprised that Elayne decided she loved Rand so quickly. As far as I can tell, she met Rand once when the fell into the Palace Garden. Then she meets him again in Tear where she has already decided that she wants to marry him! At least Min and Aviendha spend significant time with Rand before falling in love. Elayne has one meeting of about 30 minutes and over the next few months she falls in love with him despite not meeting him again! OK she technically met him again just after Falme when Rand was unconscious the entire time!

[Balefire to da face!]

I don't think this has been mentioned, but it's also worth noting this this is a custom that makes perfect sense in the context it is used in. In a race of people where battle and death is a common way of life, and the men are doing most of the fighting, it makes sense that as a culture there would be a need for multiple women to marry a man. Not just because obviously it's how the numbers work out, but as a culture, to thrive on that way of life would probably require that the majority of non-maidens have children to keep the population from succumbing to both death from fighting and death from the harsh terrain.

 

As for Rand's case in particular.....

 

Avi: Part of her culture. She has a little apprehension about Min, but not a major amount. Understandable.

 

Elayne: Elayne has always been a character who has been eager to learn about, fascinated, and eager to understand other cultures. As a queen, this is a quality that serves her well and is understandable. Again, her apprehension is dealt with during the series, and ultimately her love of Avi is a factor in her accepting this.

 

Min: Really, Min has never been too comfortable with the situation, and has rarely had to deal with sharing Rand. She has gotten him to herself most of the time. As Bossom said, it would be more of an issue if they had to confront it head-on.

 

Personally, when I was younger this storyline always rubbed me the wrong way. It never felt right. But as I've gotten older I've lightened up on it a lot. It really is just a matter of a different culture with different customs. It's not like it's subjugation of women or anything. It's not a bad custom, it's just a different one. And one that probably has unfair bias against it in our culture(speaking to other Americans, not sure how you English or Aussies or other assorted Dragonmountineers feel about the whole deal ;) )

[lordofsoup]

I always thought that they simbalized each part of who Rand is. 

 

Avi represents his Aiel part.

Elayne represents his Royal Andoran part.

Min represents the culture which he grew up into. 

I'm not surprised about Avi, as it's part of her culture, and she still displays unease about Min. As for Elayne and Min, it's a bit more surprising, as they're Andoran. I believe all three have been more accepting because they know of Min's viewing, and because of that, they realize it will be and thus force themselves to accept it. Keep in mind they really haven't had to confront the issue outside of when they bonded him. Rand himself hated himself for how he felt as well.

 

There's a reason why being 'pillow friends' makes the concept of sharing go a good bit smoother.  :-*

 

really?  maybe I am reading this wrong, but I never got the idea that Elayne and Avi were that intimate, they are first sisters, but i dident think that much.

[Jemlin]

Happens quite often and quite well in the "real" world, depending on the place and culture. 

[Impressive Bosom]

I always thought that they simbalized each part of who Rand is. 

 

Avi represents his Aiel part.

Elayne represents his Royal Andoran part.

Min represents the culture which he grew up into. 

I'm not surprised about Avi, as it's part of her culture, and she still displays unease about Min. As for Elayne and Min, it's a bit more surprising, as they're Andoran. I believe all three have been more accepting because they know of Min's viewing, and because of that, they realize it will be and thus force themselves to accept it. Keep in mind they really haven't had to confront the issue outside of when they bonded him. Rand himself hated himself for how he felt as well.

 

There's a reason why being 'pillow friends' makes the concept of sharing go a good bit smoother.  :-*

 

really?  maybe I am reading this wrong, but I never got the idea that Elayne and Avi were that intimate, they are first sisters, but i dident think that much.

*ahem* I wasn't talking about them, actually... or anyone else in the books, but rather my own situation which is probably a bit TMI. I only brought it up because it was applicable to the incredulity of th eOP.

 

And I agree as to your reasons why the three different women would appeal to Rand or seem to be a natural fit with him... but not as an explantion for their destined roles in the book or use as a literary device.