Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Vardar]

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

There was no war but that doesn't mean there was no violence. Maybe they just policed things very well. There's that scene where Rand walks through the ter'angreal where some man bumps into one of the Aiel and starts telling him to watch where he's walking until he realizes he's Aiel. My take when I read it was of the man being aggressive.

 

Good catch on the man bumping him. The BWB spoke about violence being nearly nonexistent. I just happened to read it last week, and I thought about that at the time, I mean I know nearly nonexistent and nonexistent are two different things, but when there's hardly any violence, having a group dedicated to nonviolence seems like they wouldn't be that special.

 

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

There was no war but that doesn't mean there was no violence. Maybe they just policed things very well. There's that scene where Rand walks through the ter'angreal where some man bumps into one of the Aiel and starts telling him to watch where he's walking until he realizes he's Aiel. My take when I read it was of the man being aggressive.

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

One other thing that just came to me:

We don't know when the Aiel took on the Way of the Leaf - it may have been after the DO was released and fighting began. They may have taken it on for the good of society as they seem to be the only humans involved with growing crops and such.

 

Nope they were already known for it before the bore was drilled.

[Knivy]

Was it this thread where the lack of shields in combat was discussed?

[thisguy]

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

There was no war but that doesn't mean there was no violence. Maybe they just policed things very well. There's that scene where Rand walks through the ter'angreal where some man bumps into one of the Aiel and starts telling him to watch where he's walking until he realizes he's Aiel. My take when I read it was of the man being aggressive.

 

Good catch on the man bumping him. The BWB spoke about violence being nearly nonexistent. I just happened to read it last week, and I thought about that at the time, I mean I know nearly nonexistent and nonexistent are two different things, but when there's hardly any violence, having a group dedicated to nonviolence seems like they wouldn't be that special.

 

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

There was no war but that doesn't mean there was no violence. Maybe they just policed things very well. There's that scene where Rand walks through the ter'angreal where some man bumps into one of the Aiel and starts telling him to watch where he's walking until he realizes he's Aiel. My take when I read it was of the man being aggressive.

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

One other thing that just came to me:

We don't know when the Aiel took on the Way of the Leaf - it may have been after the DO was released and fighting began. They may have taken it on for the good of society as they seem to be the only humans involved with growing crops and such.

 

Nope they were already known for it before the bore was drilled.

 

I agree. When I read that part it stuck out, and I wonder if it was meant to by RJ. Do you know if the forsaken talk about the violence issue much from that time? I don't remember anything. Point being, RJ likes to show how things change from truth to legend. There's some mention of someone in book 4 - a woman - I think Tom is telling a story to kids on the boat from Ghealdan. Anyway, the story is described one way and Brigette comments on how it changed so much from the truth - she was there when it happened.

 

As for the second bit - there goes that theory ;)

[Vardar]

Was it this thread where the lack of shields in combat was discussed?

 

Umm...

 

I know in the best swordsman thread it was mentioned.

 

I agree. When I read that part it stuck out, and I wonder if it was meant to by RJ. Do you know if the forsaken talk about the violence issue much from that time? I don't remember anything. Point being, RJ likes to show how things change from truth to legend. There's some mention of someone in book 4 - a woman - I think Tom is telling a story to kids on the boat from Ghealdan. Anyway, the story is described one way and Brigette comments on how it changed so much from the truth - she was there when it happened.

 

As for the second bit - there goes that theory ;)

 

You're exactly right.

[Knivy]

Ah, thank you :)

[Terez]

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

 

Part of the Way was giving; Aiel had traditions of sharing everything they had with those who needed it, and they were mostly known for (in that philosophy) serving the Servants. In a time when Aes Sedai truly were the most prominent Servants of All, that was an important role for the Aiel; the Aes Sedai and the Aiel were the glue that held the utopian society together. We don't know the details of the First Covenant, but I'm betting it was a lot more than simple non-violence. Also, RJ said that crime and violence were not unheard of before the drilling of the Bore, but war was unheard of, except among historians.

[Vardar]

If there was no violence in AOL, pre-bore, then what were the Daishan known for? I mean, what made the Way of the Leaf so special in a world with little or no violence?

 

Part of the Way was giving; Aiel had traditions of sharing everything they had with those who needed it, and they were mostly known for (in that philosophy) serving the Servants. In a time when Aes Sedai truly were the most prominent Servants of All, that was an important role for the Aiel; the Aes Sedai and the Aiel were the glue that held the utopian society together. We don't know the details of the First Covenant, but I'm betting it was a lot more than simple non-violence. Also, RJ said that crime and violence were not unheard of before the drilling of the Bore, but war was unheard of, except among historians.

 

Not unheard of, but still rare.

 

But thanks for the further explaination. That's makes a little more sense. So... They were hippies? Well that leaves a bad taste in my mouth... (No offense to real hippies)

[Vardar]

Another question that hit me yesterday, do Fades have special mounts? They're always black. Would a normal animal let a Fade ride it?

[Terez]

I was writing a WoT parody at one point and I had a bit in there about the Fadehorse. It's an amusing detail; RJ's never made it clear whether or not there was anything wrong with them.

[Vardar]

I was writing a WoT parody at one point and I had a bit in there about the Fadehorse. It's an amusing detail; RJ's never made it clear whether or not there was anything wrong with them.

 

Cool, thanks. I just noticed they're always black, and you never see anyone speak about taking over after the fade dies. I mean, they're obviously fast powerful horses, if they were normal, I'd expect them to be one hell of a mount. So many chars talk about horses, and those are never expanded upon.

 

Maybe I'll write that down to ask BS if his Book Tour hits MD next year.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Vardarmus

[Lisa Campbell]

Fade horses had one special quality I recall off the top of my head. In EoTW, when Rand is dragging Tam on the litter to Emond's Field, he hides from a fade trotting up the road. Then after it has passed, something tells him to wait and then the Fade canters back past him silently, no clip-clop of hooves.

[Terez]

That might have something to do with the way Fades travel, though. In some ways they're not really there, or something. It's never explained well beyond saying that even Aginor doesn't really understand it.

[Lisa Campbell]

That's true but we never hear of a Fade horse slipping through shadows either. We only ever see Fades themselves do this. Are the horses even real? For all we know they could be constructed out of shadow by the Fade itself, to appear somewhat "normal" if spotted scouting etc.

[Maleshub]

That's true but we never hear of a Fade horse slipping through shadows either. We only ever see Fades themselves do this. Are the horses even real? For all we know they could be constructed out of shadow by the Fade itself, to appear somewhat "normal" if spotted scouting etc.

 

I think there are battle scenes where Fades were killed and their horses survived them in full physical form. So, it seems they are real horses.

[thisguy]

The trollocs and fades stole them from the Rohirrim.

[yoniy0]

That's true but we never hear of a Fade horse slipping through shadows either. We only ever see Fades themselves do this.

Actually, the first time we see a Fade it appears to use that very ability, and that Fade was mounted. Of course, if the horse is capable of moving completely silently, that might be another explanation, but the lack of footprints is something else to consider.

 

I think there are battle scenes where Fades were killed and their horses survived them in full physical form.

I'd love to see that quote, if you can.

[Maleshub]

I think there are battle scenes where Fades were killed and their horses survived them in full physical form.

I'd love to see that quote, if you can.

 

I'll try But if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. And it would be easier if you can refute my presumption if you're certain that the horses are not real.

[Terez]

I think there are battle scenes where Fades were killed and their horses survived them in full physical form.

I'd love to see that quote, if you can.

 

I'll try But if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. And it would be easier if you can refute my presumption if you're certain that the horses are not real.

 

There's one here:

 

Hurriedly, Rand searched for more targets, but he realized that Lews Therin had stopped channeling. He could still feel the goose bumps that told him Cadsuane and Alivia held the Power, still feel saidin in Logain. but the other man was weaving no more webs either. Outside, the ground lay carpeted with bodies and parts of bodies from the fields almost to the manor house walls. Within paces of them. A few horses belonging to Myrddraal still stood, one holding up a foreleg as if it were broken. A headless Myrddraal staggered about, flailing wildly with its sword, and here and there a Trolloc jerked or tried to lift itself and failed, but nothing else moved.

 

PS—This passage just makes me laugh, especially the foreleg.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Terez

[Lisa Campbell]

Thanks Terez, I'd forgotten that. Didn't get the shadow-slide from tEotW though Yoni, I thought he'd just suddenly emerged from the trees or something like that. I'll look it up later.

[Vardar]

That's true but we never hear of a Fade horse slipping through shadows either. We only ever see Fades themselves do this.

Actually, the first time we see a Fade it appears to use that very ability, and that Fade was mounted. Of course, if the horse is capable of moving completely silently, that might be another explanation, but the lack of footprints is something else to consider.

 

I think there are battle scenes where Fades were killed and their horses survived them in full physical form.

I'd love to see that quote, if you can.

 

Perrin mentions one too in the Pre-Battle for two rivers. When the 3 fades and 500 Trollocs attack. He mentioned the dead horses.

 

I didn't catch the fact that the horses are silent, although now that Elci brings it up, I do seem to remember. Now I'l pay more attention and go back some.

[MountaineerWV]

This could open up new possibilities for how food and logistics are dealt with in the Blight. It takes some degree of sophistication to breed,raise, and feed warhorses. No way that raids into the Borderlands would provide enough horses to mount thousands and thousands of Fades.

 

To K.I.S.S., I'll just chalk this up as a bookism. Horses and fantasy go together like swords and fantasy. The bad guys need a set of wheels to get around also.

[fuzz1717]

This could open up new possibilities for how food and logistics are dealt with in the Blight. It takes some degree of sophistication to breed,raise, and feed warhorses. No way that raids into the Borderlands would provide enough horses to mount thousands and thousands of Fades.

 

To K.I.S.S., I'll just chalk this up as a bookism. Horses and fantasy go together like swords and fantasy. The bad guys need a set of wheels to get around also.

 

I think at one point, when we are at Shayol Ghul, we see that there are some shadow forgers that make the Fades' swords using souls. It seems reasonable that these forgers also can tame horses.

[thisguy]

This could open up new possibilities for how food and logistics are dealt with in the Blight. It takes some degree of sophistication to breed,raise, and feed warhorses. No way that raids into the Borderlands would provide enough horses to mount thousands and thousands of Fades.

 

To K.I.S.S., I'll just chalk this up as a bookism. Horses and fantasy go together like swords and fantasy. The bad guys need a set of wheels to get around also.

 

I think at one point, when we are at Shayol Ghul, we see that there are some shadow forgers that make the Fades' swords using souls. It seems reasonable that these forgers also can tame horses.

Either book 5 or 6 - you're right. Demandred is called to Shayol Ghul and witnesses some Borderlanders being taken to the forge. The last thing the forgers do to the swords is take a life with them.

[Vardar]

This could open up new possibilities for how food and logistics are dealt with in the Blight. It takes some degree of sophistication to breed,raise, and feed warhorses. No way that raids into the Borderlands would provide enough horses to mount thousands and thousands of Fades.

 

To K.I.S.S., I'll just chalk this up as a bookism. Horses and fantasy go together like swords and fantasy. The bad guys need a set of wheels to get around also.

 

I think at one point, when we are at Shayol Ghul, we see that there are some shadow forgers that make the Fades' swords using souls. It seems reasonable that these forgers also can tame horses.

Either book 5 or 6 - you're right. Demandred is called to Shayol Ghul and witnesses some Borderlanders being taken to the forge. The last thing the forgers do to the swords is take a life with them.

 

Nope. Well, yes, but the forgers are mindless constructs who can't venture far from their caves and who's only purpose is to make those weapons.

[thisguy]

This could open up new possibilities for how food and logistics are dealt with in the Blight. It takes some degree of sophistication to breed,raise, and feed warhorses. No way that raids into the Borderlands would provide enough horses to mount thousands and thousands of Fades.

 

To K.I.S.S., I'll just chalk this up as a bookism. Horses and fantasy go together like swords and fantasy. The bad guys need a set of wheels to get around also.

 

I think at one point, when we are at Shayol Ghul, we see that there are some shadow forgers that make the Fades' swords using souls. It seems reasonable that these forgers also can tame horses.

Either book 5 or 6 - you're right. Demandred is called to Shayol Ghul and witnesses some Borderlanders being taken to the forge. The last thing the forgers do to the swords is take a life with them.

 

Nope. Well, yes, but the forgers are mindless constructs who can't venture far from their caves and who's only purpose is to make those weapons.

Yeah, that's true. I see, you mean his comment about them also training horses? Right, apparently, they can't do that but maybe they have horse trainer constructs. Who knows?